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518 Comments
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -32/+207every American must what?
- FongoBongo, on 10/11/2007, -83/+259@davidbgie
Have you been to Cuba? Do you have family in Cuba? Have you lived in Cuba?
Well I have, so you can just shut the ***** up you piece of *****. Just because its a communist country doesn't mean it doesn't have good healthcare. You don't know this, but ***** cuban doctors are considered one of the best in the world. Freaking doctors from abroad go to Cuba to learn.
Your a piece of ***** - quandrum, on 10/11/2007, -18/+144I love the "kill incentive" line in these discussions. Is Health Care really a market? I dunno, but when it operates like one, health care providers are stuck deciding if treating you is worth it. Do you really want to have a life threatening illness and have your doctors decide it's not in their financial interest to treat you, or your insurance company decide it's not in there's to pay for the treatment?
Here's incentive: In modern European "socialized" medicine, Doctors are payed based on how well their patients do. Save more lives than the other Doctors? Fatter Check. Lower blood pressure and Cholesterol of your charges? Bonus time! And yet they still manage to do it much cheaper than we do.
Oh, and our Doctors might be the best in the Western world, but they somehow manage to churn out the worst product. And by product I mean your health. - littlebylittle, on 10/11/2007, -61/+183I predict that Sicko is going to be a pretty big cultural phenomenon. Everyone should see it. It's going to catapult the National Debate on Health Care into the Stratosphere.
- mygrayarea, on 10/11/2007, -13/+131I pay top dollar for my health insurance and it still ***** sucks. Something needs to change.
This movie makes lots of good points, but the ones it doesn't make are the ones that resonate - e.g. those things that happen to each of us and to our friends and co-workers. We all know someone who won't go to a doctor because of cost. We all know that each person pays a different amount for prescriptions. We all know someone who has been denied coverage. We all know someone who has been denied care or payment for care.
And Cuba is not as bad as you think, people travel from all over South and Central America to get healthcare in Cuba. - otheruser, on 10/11/2007, -42/+143Indeed. America, just like every other Western democracy, ought to have universal healthcare (single-payer system).
My Aunt was recently diagnosed with Hepatitis (not sure of the type). Her daughter encouraged her to come down to the city where we leave, and to seek treatment options here (Houston has a very prestigious "medical complex"). She did just that, and was given a treatment plan.
Unfortunately, it will cost upwards of $40,000 USD, and as an individual without insurance (she's quite elderly), she has no choice but to refuse. She will now be returning home. - spudnic, on 10/11/2007, -14/+113@davidbgie (#7285173)
Anyone who rejects an idea without even thinking about it just because it comes from Cuba is an idiot. - FyreGoddess, on 10/11/2007, -15/+109You know, regardless of anything else people say about Michael Moore, you have to admit, he gets people talking, and thinking. Even when he's exaggerating and misleading people, at least he sparks some really heavy debate.
Whether you like him or not, you have to give him credit for that much. - kylesellers, on 10/11/2007, -51/+127Everyone must see Sicko...
...because then they will realize the dangers of obesity and stop eating so many donuts. - Ifishbein, on 10/11/2007, -25/+90Ron Paul is in favor of small government. He is completely opposed to government funded health care. He believes that the private sector can do anything cheaper and more efficiently than the government. He said on the Daily Show that he wants to get rid of Medicare. Although I agree with some of his views, his plans for health care will only worsen the problem. The health insurance companies in this country are already running wild.
- GoneSouth, on 10/11/2007, -20/+83@knupso
I post this same message on every health care thread on digg. Please stop mindlessly repeating that government health care will just lead to bureaucracy and mediocrity. Educate yourself! Every other first world nation except the US has government run health care (Canada, UK, France, etc) The citizens of those nations pay less per capita for their health care, and get better care for their money, demonstrated by longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and other key indicators. Furthermore, medical expenses are the #1 leading cause of bankruptcy in the US... nobody in a country as rich as ours should face financial ruin because they got sick.
We accept that the public sector CAN provide provide good service at reasonable rates for other necessary services - fire, police, utilities, education, transportation security. Why is medical care such a stretch? - joshp20, on 10/11/2007, -15/+78And why are the doctors becoming pill pushers? Could it be because of the pharmaceutical companies and kickbacks?
- SmokedL, on 10/11/2007, -14/+71""Here's incentive: In modern European "socialized" medicine, Doctors are payed based on how well their patients do. Save more lives than the other Doctors? Fatter Check"
Yeah. Let's give doctors an incentive not to treat the really sick people because it isn't good for their bottom line. That makes complete sense. /sarcasm"
You seem to be confused. You are not allowed to deny care in these systems. What kind if sick ***** system would allow you to deny care?
Oh right. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+57Makes me think of how prior to getting a wound stitched up at the hospital, they washed it out with saline.
On the bill the saline cost over $80 by itself.
$80 for salt water. - kiddcode, on 10/11/2007, -4/+55You know, I thought the movie was pretty cool, but the author of this article is wacko. Take this gem for example,
"I opted out of the American health care system long ago. I'm a holistic nutritionist, and I exercise, eat right, get lots of sunshine and gorge on superfoods and raw berries. I have no need for a doctor, or a pharmaceutical, or a health insurance policy. I don't get annual physical exams, and I have zero risk of cancer, heart disease, diabetes or other common health conditions."
Zero risk, huh? Good luck with that buddy. - GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+49The true costs of healthcare are concealed from patients. My girlfriend was charge $250 for a neck brace. They put the neck brace on to do x-rays. 10 minutes later they removed the neck brace and tossed it in the trash. I asked the doc if we could keep that as it seems simple to re-use. We were not permitted to take anything the hospital provided.
This is racketeering. - VIrus9, on 10/11/2007, -23/+71I tend to be very conservative on most issues and have been a Michael Moore detractor for years, so it was without the slightest twinge of guilt that I pirated Sicko the other day.
This has left me in a curious position. I don't know if it bothers me more that I'm now in favor of Universal Health Care, or that it was Michael Moore who changed my opinion. - Ifishbein, on 10/11/2007, -11/+50They are offering you a service as long as you are healthy. Once you get sick, well, you're on your own.
- elementaldreams, on 10/11/2007, -9/+44"They are offering you a service; if you don't like it, then don't get it. You're not entitled to anything."
So if you get sick with cancer and can't find insurance without going bankrupt, you're not entitled to live?
(btw this is not hypothetical, I just looked at the May 2007 issue of Registered Nurse magazine) - SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -2/+37Actually 90% of Hollywood movies are quite embarrassing for Americans.
- ab2650, on 10/11/2007, -4/+38@random4
"hey are offering you a service; if you don't like it, then don't get it. You're not entitled to anything."
That's not exactly what's going on if you dig a bit deeper, or even just think a bit about it. As an analogy, if a restaurant offers a meal at, say, $10, you can take your hard earned cash and spend it there or somewhere else. If you don't like it, don't get it, right? Now lets say that that same restaurant bought up all the other restaurants, signed contracts with all the producers of the ingredients to sell to no one but them (or at the very least to supposedly raise their rates astronomically), jacked up their prices so the same meal is now $10,000. Hey, if you don't wanna spend that, go get your meal somewhere else... BUT WHERE?
I suppose you could go pick berries and try some "holistic" approach, but now the restaurant is advertising that ONLY their meal is the way to cure what you got, which may or may not be hunger.. Actually they're calling it "hungeritis" which really has no cure or preventable action, but it can be placated by buying their now $50,000 meal. Meanwhile it's becoming illegal to cook at home because the restaurant somehow is in bed with the government dissallowing things like importing food from neighboring countries.
*THAT'S* the problem with health insurance. This comes from someone who pays a bundle for insurance and still gets a hospital bill for a $50,000 emergency C-section. Why? It wasn't pre-authorized... I detect irony in "pre-authorizing" an "emergency" anything. Eff the health care in this country. - otheruser, on 10/11/2007, -2/+33"@joshp20 I hate to rain on your parade, but most doctors aren't going to prescribe superfluous medicine for drug company kickbacks. Do you know what the drug companies give doctors? ***** pens and little toys (like those army guys with parachutes)."
Really?
NYT, December 2002:
"Drug makers acknowledged, for example, that they routinely made payments to insurance plans to increase the use of their products, to expand their market share, to be added to lists of recommended drugs or to reward doctors and pharmacists for switching patients from one brand of drug to another.
Moreover, doctors said that drug companies were a major source of money for their professional education programs, and that the administration proposal could drastical"
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9D04E3D9103CF935A15751C1A9649C8B63 - rwallen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+32My wife is a Type 1 diabetic (genetic). She is covered because I have insurance through my job. I recently switched jobs and Cobra wanted to charge us $4500 a month to insure her. Who the hell can afford that much money a month in insurance? Not to mention the $1000 deductible and they would only cover 60% of the bills.
I've been dealing with insurance companies for my wife for almost 3 years now and it really is a disgusting business, and thats just it, it's a business, not a service. They are in the business to make money, and just like every company, money is the bottom line. - daedalus779, on 10/11/2007, -7/+37I saw the movie last night. Not the biggest Michael Moore fan but it was a real eye opener- something needs to change.
- brstilson, on 10/11/2007, -13/+42To those of you who are spouting the rhetoric "do you want the government in control of your health care?" I have a question for you..
Do you want a greedy, multi-billion dollar publicly-traded conglomerate that must increase profits years and views your sickness as nothing more than a financial loss in charge of YOUR health care?
You may think that privatizing is always good, but more often than not, public services are poorly handled by the private industry.
The AT&T monopoly forced Americans into poor-quality, expensive phone service with little to no choice. Until, of course, the government stepped in and broke up the monopoly
California's electrical power supply was privatized until it was discovered that the private companies purposely caused supply shortages in order to drive prices up.
The motivation for providing good health care should NEVER be for profit. It's insane to think otherwise. Government-run health care would eliminate this motivation. The United States wastes more than enough money to pay for everyone's care, without even raising taxes.
On the flip side, free health care might work in other countries, but can we trust OUR government to not F* it all up? You may point to all the other "failed" government programs like the public school system, but the reason our schools are so far behind is because of teacher's unions, not the fact that they're publicly-funded.
All in all, I would much rather have the government funding my health care so a politician can get my vote than a private corporation so its CEO can buy a new mansion. - melvs, on 10/11/2007, -6/+35I don't care if you like Moore or hate him, the message he is trying to convey isn't ***** debateable. The American people are being KILLED (literally) by the health industry. Disagree with Moore's tatics, personality, whatever, that's fine. It does not change the fact that he's right, and there is NO WAY you can argue otherwise.
I wish he had done a more broad look at the huge Corps. who have the government in their pocket, not just the Health care, because that's a much bigger issue. These Corps have no morals and don't care about ANYTHING except $$$. They kill people, cultures, entire ecosystems in the name of profit, and it's ***** sickening to watch it happen with the government sitting back getting paid to let them do it. - SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -11/+36Dude... TAKE THE ***** TIME TO EDIT THE TITLE AND SUMMARY.
Geez, is it that hard to avoid words and sentences being truncated? - trer, on 10/11/2007, -23/+47"I am going to see "Sicko", but from now on I am taking everything Moore has to say as an invitation to do my own research."
As what should be done with any commentator who makes statements in public. Unfortunately, too many people follow the word of the unholy trinity of O'Reilly, Hannity and Coulter as gospel without ever doing their own research. - SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -20/+44I blame malpractice lawyers for the cost.
- Flimnit, on 10/11/2007, -5/+29I am from Canada, Toronto specifically. We are home to some of the best surgeons and cancer doctors in the world so don't. (Sunnybrook Hospital) Unless you live in a country with government run health care please don't be so ignorant as to criticize it. it's not perfect, but what is these days. Universal health care does not breed mediocraty. How can the richest most powerful nation in the world have such disregard for its ailing and downtroden?
- Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -6/+29Speaking as someone who's lived in two countries with socialised healthcare, I can't say that privatised would be better.
Honestly, who would not want free, high quality healthcare? - iceperson, on 10/11/2007, -32/+55"Here's incentive: In modern European "socialized" medicine, Doctors are payed based on how well their patients do. Save more lives than the other Doctors? Fatter Check"
Yeah. Let's give doctors an incentive not to treat the really sick people because it isn't good for their bottom line. That makes complete sense. /sarcasm - compaqdrew, on 10/11/2007, -3/+24@lfishbein:
The current state of healthcare in our country is FAR from capitalist. HMOs and MMOs are effectively granted monopolies by our state and local governments. Companies who employ full-time workers are *required* to offer healthcare, and it *must* meet certain standards defined by government *cough* i mean corporate lobbyists *cough*. The reason this is so is because Congress is not authorized to provide healthcare (only to regulate interstate commerce) and thus forcing a private business to provide its employees healthcare can slip by under the umbrella of regulating commerce.
Ron Paul may oppose nationalized healthcare, but I'm dead sure he's not in favor of the corporatist, federally-controlled healthcare system we currently have. It may not be nationalized in name, and it may not be directly provided for by tax dollars, but the differences are minimal. HMOs are pretty much run by laws and administrative rules passed down by the feds. Federal regulations dictate everything from what drugs can be bought and sold at what price all the way down to the timer on the receptionist's password protected screensaver (must be ten minutes or less). And the money comes right out of workers' paychecks--the same way any national healthcare tax would.
Companies are accountable to the person paying the bills. The person paying the bills for your healthcare is your employer. That's the *real* reason healthcare companies aren't responsive to consumer outrage over failure to pay healthcare costs--it doesn't matter if you like them or not. If, on the other hand, healthcare providers were separated from your place of work, you could take your business elsewhere.
But, of course, all for the national healthcare system that's even *less* responsive than the one we've already got. - aliengoods, on 10/11/2007, -15/+35The ironic thing about Sicko is watching it will make you smoke a pack of cigarettes, out of anger(the crap the HMO's get away with), disgust(more of the crap the HMO's get away with), envy (Oh Canada!), or delusional laughter.
@mcosmi
I downloaded it, and I guarantee I'll go to the theater to see it opening weekend, just to show support for the work Moore has done on the film. - gcnaddict, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23"Do you know what the drug companies give doctors? ***** pens and little toys (like those army guys with parachutes)."
and free vacations to just about anywhere. Have you seen the people that actually pitch the drugs? They come not in standard business suits but in tuxedos! These guys are insane in their efforts to drive drugs to doctors, and yes, they do give paid vacations to those that give out the most. - phantom_mullet, on 10/11/2007, -10/+30I fully agree that this film is something every American should see. I would consider myself a moderate conservative, and Sicko completely changed my views on universal healthcare. I must admit, as a college student headed for medical school, I was worried what universal healthcare would do to doctors' salaries, but this film addresses these concerns as well.
I will also concede that I have never been a Michael Moore fan, but he was spot on with this one. - bierpub, on 10/11/2007, -8/+28Just saw it last night. I agree everyone else in the US must see it.... I haven't liked michael moore in the past, but he's right on this time.
- aMeta4, on 10/11/2007, -10/+29@iceperson:
""Here's incentive: In modern European "socialized" medicine, Doctors are payed based on how well their patients do. Save more lives than the other Doctors? Fatter Check"
Yeah. Let's give doctors an incentive not to treat the really sick people because it isn't good for their bottom line. That makes complete sense. /sarcasm"
Actually these incentives are given based on improvements to patients in your care. It has nothing to do with how sick they are the first time they see you, *****. - libertao, on 10/11/2007, -4/+21We have the best doctors, yes, but not the best system on average. You sound like someone this film is directed at.
- knupso, on 10/11/2007, -13/+30You people don't seem to get how corrupt the American political landscape is. The government does not represent the people here, it represents the corporate lobbyist. If the government actually represented the people, and the people actually paid more attention to their representative then Paris Hilton. I would change my tune. Let me state I am not against universal health care. I am against federally run health care. There are other options like allowing states to run their own health care systems or maybe having some sort of hybrid of the two systems. I would maybe even like to see where the government covers the cost but you are allowed to chose your Doctor or Hospital to keep competition alive.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+18fyregoddess, thats all he makes his films for. Just the act of talking about this stuff is an important step to fixing up a broken system (and can't possibly not see that its broken).
Hell, if those cheese eating surrender monkeys and dirty stinking comunists have better healthcare than you guys, something is kind of screwed up, right?? - wildart, on 10/11/2007, -9/+24Quite an embarrassing movie for Americans.
- skinjob1, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20You have been duped by Big Pharma. Physician pay relative to other costs are actually declining. The real kickback was the Medicare drug bill that was pushed thru by pharma and their shills in congress. It made it illegal for the US gov't to negotiate prices for drugs. This is completely unamerican and is the reason drugs are half or a third the cost in other con tries like Canada. Drug costs make up 20-30 percent of costs by the way. Also, congress passed a law in the late 90's allowing direct to consumer adverts for drugs. Why do patients need to be told about drugs for disease they may or may not have? Because whatever big pharma wants they get in Congress. Malpractice is another complex problem that will never be addressed properly. Congress is full or lawyers and will never restrict litigation of physician or hospitals.
- MWeather, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19"How can the richest most powerful nation in the world have such disregard for its ailing and downtroden?"
We didn't get this rich by helping out poor people. - profOblivion, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16Subsidizing IS how it's done in Canada. Every province has a Health Insurance Plan that is funded by taxes - you don't go to a government office to get a check-up, you go to a privately-owned clinic and the government pays the bill. And make no mistake, they don't pay for everything. Prescriptions, for example, are still out-of-pocket/through separate insurance.
- bicycleman, on 10/11/2007, -6/+18I'm just watching this right now. I downloaded a full DVD-Rip of it that I got of the P2P which I suspect Michael leaked out due to the pressures from the US Gov't trying to shut it down. I have to say I am floored with anger and very disappointed at the evilness of such a system. This is going to turn a lot of heads and the long over due axe will be coming for justice on a lot of these companies after this is released on the 29th. It is every American's duty that is made of flesh and blood to go see this documentary.
- otheruser, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12The statistic is "Life Expectancy at BIRTH" so that means, ON AVERAGE, a Cadandian male will live longer than an American male, regardless of how much money they have (you dont have money at birth).
Social status is irrelevant at birth, and for that reason, saying "a poor Canadian will live longer than a rich American on average" would be true..
The statistic of course, doesn't mean that ALL rich Americans die faster than poor Canadians, because that simply isn't true. - Yazilliclick, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18That's the problem. Certain services just don't fit under capitalism properly, at least not in any way that people would be happy with. The only reason the US private system isn't worse off right now is thanks to the few regulations placed on the industry by the government.
This industry is one that everyone will eventually need, it's a matter of life and death and many times the person needing the care is not in any condition to make any decisions such as which hospital to go to, which doctor performs the surgery, what type of surgery, what brand of pain killers they want etc... It's an emergency service and much like firedepartments and police forces they should just be there for the people. Unfortunately the system in the US is never going to change because the drug companies and insurance companies will never let it and by far the majority of the US population will never do anything being angry letters or posts on sites like these that have no influence. US, and Canadian (where I live) citizens are far too laid back and let the politicians do what they want due to laziness and feeling of hoplesness. - ISIfunded911, on 10/11/2007, -8/+19Stewmoney, Bowling for Columbine was showing that Canada, with as many guns per inhabitant as in the US, was far far far less violent. So Bowling for Columbine was not attacking guns. It was denouncing a very pervasive culture of violence.
As for Fahrenheit 9/11, it appeared when Bush was incredibly popular, and totally destroyed his image. Thanks to this film, it became possible to criticize Bush and the war publicly without fear. Fahrenheit 9/11 maybe helped the US avoid sinking in an orwellian pravdaesque era where only praising Bush and wars was tolerated.
A film is just a film. The extent of what happens next depends on everyone of us. - Ramble, on 10/11/2007, -5/+16America has a horrible healthcare system. Even the NHS is far better.
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