What is Digg?53 Comments
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+24Dr. Jung called from the 1950s and he wants his credit back.
Seriously, he wrote extensively about all this decades ago. The notion of controlling a person using subconscious cues is complicated by the fact that the person trying to do the controlling also has a subconscious. Further, the area that Jung would really want to see investigated is not the fact that an active subconscious exists in the individual but rather how the collective unconscious operates.
Knowing how symbols relate to the conscious and unconscious mind MIGHT be useful for selling trinkets but it is absolutely useful in knowing one's self and the larger relation to the world in general. - lOvOl, on 10/10/2007, -1/+21It is weird. The more you learn about human behaviour the more you sometimes wish you took the blue pill (and no I am not talking about Viagra), yet curiousity still curses you and you keep taking the red pill daily.
It is like when you start noticing all the subtle things everyone does subconsciously, or when you are given a sales pitch by some salesman who is actively using a few tricks he learned at some workshop on how to manipulate people and you see right through them, you sometimes stop feeling human and start feeling detached from everyone else who is seemingly consumed with the rate race they call life.
Even worse, when you notice this stuff and point it out to people (not a good idea), they often get defensive and accuse you of being paranoid just for seeing things them for the way they are, rather than the way you really wish they were back in the day when you were taking the blue pill like everyone else.
Anyone else out there feel that way? - brainScan, on 10/10/2007, -2/+16Self-control is an illusion!!!
- purplehaze420, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7I wonder how the people felt if they got hot coffee poured on them by a stranger ?
- neuralzen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7This article reinforces my belief that ultimately, everything we sense are symbols for the external stimulus we are interacting with, and the meaning we associate with those symbols depends on our reaction to them every time they come up. There are passive association, such as the briefcase associated with business and money, but there are also emotional associations, such as if someone had horrible business experiences, a briefcase would also drudge up associations of anger and anxiety.
That is why I think we, as ration people, should realize that any emotion we experience in regards to an event or object, is only ever in our own minds, thus, the associations only effect us and our own happiness. If you are angry at someone, you are focusing that anger at the SYMBOL of the person, which is actually a concept made up of fragments of your own psyche and self-concept (see mirror neurons on wikipedia). The sooner we recognize that all we are doing is hurting our own happiness now and in the future (when the symbol is recalled), the sooner we can all try and act compassionately towards each other to help improve the quality of life for others and our own internal experience (altruism does hit the joy button in the brain, after all). In short, you only ever get mad at yourself when you think you are getting mad at others.
Metta!
-NZ - FyreGoddess, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Probably they felt wet.
- WhiteRaven, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5The whole notion of the conscious vs. the unconscious is completely wrong. ALL thought takes place "unconsciously"; the only purpose of the so-called conscious mind is to hold onto the outcome of unconscious processes. It's nothing but a chunk of memory that coincides with the now. All decisions, ideas and reactions are simply deposited into "now-memory" after the decision has been made. Indeed, scientists have known for years that the body will begin acting on a decision before the person is even aware that a decision has been made. The conscious mind is an afterthought with virtually no influence on behavior. All the important stuff takes place without our awareness.
- enginbeering, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yah man, I think about this all the time.
Ignorance might be bliss, but it's not for me. - Mageant, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Watch videos by "Derren Brown" on youtube to see how one can influence the subconscious mind.
People in power have been using these tricks for ages, it's just they don't want the populace to generally know about it.
Also watch the BBC documentary "Century of the Self" by Adam Curtis. - neuralzen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3No, it is anything but irrelevant BECAUSE it has everything to do with daily life, from the smallest thing to the biggest. That's the point....if you are aware of it, you can start to change your reflexes....your emotions only get directed to the symbol, not the objective source the symbol represents. Knowing tis you can change how you react to things so that not only is your inner experience/life blissful, but you help other too. Besides, how you feel about something doesn't change the fact that it exists, so instead of letting people and things control your emotions, take charge of yourself. In addition, when has anger and anxiety ever been conducive to clear thought? Never, and many people do things they latte regret because they were impulsively angry. Use your facilities of reason to build a better tomorrow by starting today...
- carbon12, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2“Relax. What is mind? No matter. What is matter? Never mind!” -- Homer Simpson
- Scynet, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Don't mind the mind behind the cortex.
- NerdyNinja, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes, subconscious priming has been around for a long time. Psychologists are still figuring out which cues provoke which reactions, though.
- KrazyA1pha, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yes.
I wish there were more I could add... - equallyunequal, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Next study, the subconscious effect of having a GIANT bright orange advertisement flanking a good article.
- CorporateSlave, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2this is exactly why you shouldn't take anything anyone says too personally because they might simply be acting rude because of your t-shirt color or if the air smells like something or the temperature or whatever. we think we are in complete control of our actions, but its important to realize that this is hardly true.
- tyywebb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Go get adblock.
- emjaymj, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Yeah I'm sure when Isaac Newton discovered gravity it was a no-***** moment too. I mean stuff has always been falling downwards, am I right??!?!?!
lawl, me so smart - enginbeering, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Lip licking is a good one too.
- bIuebonics, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2a high "emotional quotient" (and i use that term loosely) would seem as if it's the opposite of not feeling human and feeling detached.
- WhiteRaven, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Your question makes no sense. There are no processes unique to the conscious mind. The conscious mind does not process anything.
"The act of judgment" for example is a set of routines that run within the mind that you are completely unaware of. Consciousness is *only* the memory of the now. No processing takes place. The best analogy is a computer with a monitor. The video monitor represents the conscious mind, remembering the eternal now. ALL computation takes place within the computer itself. And, like a computer, the brain is composed of many, many components, all contributing small tasks to generate the final product that is on the screen. The monitor does not know what the CPU and the disk drive and the RAM are doing or how they are coming to the "decisions" they make, it is only displaying the outcome. That is the conscious mind... as you can see, calling it a mind isn't very appropriate.
Thought is the interplay of countless factions and processes within the brain over which the "conscious mind" has no control. Everything you feel and think is handed to your awareness as a fait accompli. Even when you change your mind or think "no, that's not right", you are merely reacting to "late breaking news" from the active part of the brain.
This of course also makes the concept of free will more or less meaningless. The brain is a machine and thought merely a process. - tyywebb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1But who minds the mind that minds the mind?
- puto, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I prefer the open mouth one.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Good note. I'm also onto the Akasha/Collective Unconscious theory. Anyway. Who the hell are all these scientists? They keep on discovering things that are no brainers, common sense and learned through life experience. The subconscious is more influential than you may think? NO *****!!!! It's the ***** subconscious!
- CriX, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Consciousness is a byproduct of a mind that models its environment. We can only watch and attempt to understand the "decisions" our deterministic molecules cause us to make. There is no free will. But this isn't a huge problem because it will continue to "feel" otherwise.
- lorisa, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I really liked this article...back when I read it in a book and it was called "Blink".
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The dissociation of the "mind" from the simple act of reacting to the environment is a fairly new phenomenon. In primitive peoples it is still possible to observe a MUCH tighter integration between awareness and the reaction to the environment and the symbols that arise thereof.
It seems like you are suggesting that the dissociation does not exist and that would not comport with the research in this area. - Memnochxx, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2The subconscious is independent. Who would have thought?
- tyywebb, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Dude what the hell you just blew my mind!! My unconscious brain is commanding my fingers to type this message and although I think that I'm typing my own thoughts I'm really just a prisoner who's been tricked into thinking I've been in control this whole time! Seriously though the way I think of it is that there's no way you can rightly separate conscious from unconscious; they are so intertwined and yes 99% of what goes on is probably unconscious but who knows maybe the only reason any of are conscious at all is that we needed to evolve a model of the mind to determine future actions of our peers and as a result we have to also have a model of our own minds. Ah brain's hurting. Anyway, Neovos, Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett is a pretty good read.
- robszol, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Think about this. Do we really have free will when our brain is entirely composed of individual atoms that all abide by the laws of physics? Just because it's extremely complicated, they will still react in the way they are chemically supposed to based inputs of all kinds. The consequence (consciousness) is just a result of how your brain developed. Deep down it's all governed by the laws of physics and there is no law that states molecules have wills of their own.
- Neovos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Can you cite some sources for further reading? Also, how would the unconscious control processes that are unique to the conscious mind? And to clarify, are you referring to the unconscious as the "primitive mind," the opposite companion to the complex frontal lobe? or as something altogether different? Because the very act of judgment itself is a function of the more evolved mind over the "primitive mind." Is the unconscious arguing with itself when it's own decisions made in the primitive mind are revised, censored, or ignored in the judgment making frontal lobe?
- bIuebonics, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1before you make any critiques of the study itself, you should probably actually read the study as opposed to basing your analysis of it on a ny times article... also, i'm always losing pencils and i need them... i need all the pencils i can get. wtf else am i supposed to do math with?
- yahoofrom, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Exactly!
some people feel angry about my nerdiness.
Like a white supremacist getting offended by blackness of black people, social supremacist gets offended by loneliness of me. - WhiteRaven, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1You have it backwards. I *am* my unconscious mind!!! The only one in "control" is ME... the fact that I am composed almost entirely of processes of which I have no knowledge.
Next time you have to stop and think about something or maybe dredge up some memory, see how well you understand the process of your own thinking. And I'm not asking you to understand nurons and lobes, just pay attention to the role you "conscious* thoughts play and compare it to the way answers just errupt into your mind from somewhere within. I don't see how anyone who actually considers the sequence of events they experience when they think can still believe in the notion of conscious thought. Consciousness is the recording of the results of unconscious processes... which makes sense. It's not like you consciously *think* about balancing and walking and throwing a ball. The brain is no different. Components take orders and produce results without conscious oversight. - enginbeering, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Sweet.
Links? (yah, I'm lazy- why do you think I'm on digg?) - TacTics40, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0http://sequence.complete.org/node/256
- Ngai, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1dude... I know EXACTLY how you feel and your thoughts on the subject are the everyday mind ***** that I have when my mind sets in for curiosity....
thats why i'm the translucent guy around these parts..
i do see things in a entirely different perspective, i see it differently every single day... - tyywebb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Luckily for me I'm only interested in this kind of thing when I'm reading otherwise I'm much more oblivious than the average Joe.
- puto, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1You are either born with a high EQ or you're not. If you are, then you see almost too much.
It can be a pain in the ass, but then you learn to only cue in when you want.
NLP FTW - tyywebb, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Isn't that statement kind of self-fulfilling? If you claim that you are a prisoner of your deterministic molecules doesn't that give you free rein to go around killing everyone and just blame your molecules?
- yahoofrom, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1i see why every girl hair flip at me
- Neovos, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0So WhiteRaven, are you saying that one still have the ability to "choose," it's just that you are completely detached from the choosing process and really just see the results of it? Can you then take it a step further and say that people do have free will, they just don't take part in the process? Because the unconscious still is "me" and "me" is making decisions. Yet "me" definitely is not a slave or robotic.
- dronkmunk, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0haha
- PeteBeast, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0bennyfreshness, I wrote three letters and it ***** wastes ur time? You're here ***** complaining, and dare to say I waste YOUR time? ***** off.
- Neovos, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0I'd like to point out that I think these findings are, like most research, about a majority but not 100% everyone. I've come across some people that are much more in tune with their sub conscious inklings then the normal person and can filter themselves much better. It is usually people that are quite efficient and pay very close attention to detail (and practice on themselves). They can stop themselves before they explode or before they throw out an expletive. Or also people that practice what types of body language they give (or are just aware of it more then usual). Animal trainers are examples. Animals sense fear and other emotions better then humans can and practice filtering them better.
Something about this experiment below doesn't sit well with me.
"In one 2006 study, for instance, researchers had Northwestern University undergraduates recall an unethical deed from their past, like betraying a friend, or a virtuous one, like returning lost property. Afterward, the students had their choice of a gift, an antiseptic wipe or a pencil; and those who had recalled bad behavior were twice as likely as the others to take the wipe. They had been primed to psychologically “cleanse” their consciences."
While they might have been twice as likely to pick the wipe, it doesn't say exactly that when asked to recall a virtuous deed, they choose the pencil more often. Personally, I think that any random sample will show people are more likely to pick a wipe over a pencil because wipes are useful within a couple minutes and are disposed of. Who wants to carry around a pencil around all day? - slither, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1this only confirms for me the current administration's strategy of inciting fear to make the country more politically compliant with its policies that curtail individual liberties. the rational faculties of the average American get mothballed every time the bogeyman gets splashed across the front page. fear is a paralytic.
- bennyfreshness, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1only becuase you're annoying... don't take any power trip like u made us digg u down... u'r a lamer dude, don't waste our time
- josegutz, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I am sure they were awakened by the matrix (depending on their mental stability). The pain body (only for a brief moment) would be in so much pain from the Hot Coffee that one would temporarily leave the body to observe the pain from afar. Hence OBE before near death...
- scottmillerinva, on 10/10/2007, -4/+2No, we're not paranoid freaks.
- dougfunny, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1You can say that about everything though, so it's irrelevant to daily life.
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