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543 Comments
- CaptMonkey, on 10/16/2007, -14/+845I know they're vegans, but was there something wrong with feeding the kid the milk from her breasts?
- Liam76, on 10/16/2007, -93/+739Poor parents?
How about poor kid. those ignorant ***** had no right having a baby or pursuing a vegan lifestyle since they obviously had absolutely no idea what constitutes a healthy diet. People that fanatical about veganism deserve nothing less than life in jail. - bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -61/+416@dacrazydude: No. These idiots had no idea what they were doing. They went against what is "natural" and what is in the best interests of a newborn. They deserve nothing less than a life sentence for murdering a child.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -8/+353These people weren't vegans. They were just freakin' stupid or crazy or both.
According to this article, there's more to it: http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/05/02/0503metvegan.html
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"Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield."
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"The vegan diet is fine," Boring said after the verdict in the Georgia case. "These parents lied about what they fed him. He just was not fed enough."
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The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin.
----- - pbaehr, on 10/12/2007, -44/+374@captmonkey: Vegans seem to be under the impression that the only way to get milk out of an animal is to chain it down and torture it. I guess the mother just wasn't up for it.
- crucifiedpooh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+295Vegan or not, the only food a baby at six weeks or less needs is breast milk.
- Hecks, on 10/12/2007, -12/+224@kmckanna
I'm not defending these parents, but nobody feeds meat to a 6 week old baby. - oddmanout, on 10/12/2007, -16/+207this has little to do with the fact that they are vegans, and everything to do with the fact that they don't know how to raise a child. Any idiot would know that milk and applesauce won't feed anyone. Most vegans I know have to make an extra effort to stay healthy, they would have known not to feed the child just that.
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -10/+191>>>"That would be an animal product."
Real vegans are okay with giving breast milk to their babies. Why? Because it's natural. Animals do the same thing. They won't eat animals or animal products, but products of their own bodies are perfectly natural for babies to eat.
Not that I endorse vegans, mind you. Just that real vegans have no problem giving their kids breast milk. - betterth, on 10/12/2007, -27/+207Sounds like they're fanatical and not intelligent about nutrition. It's entirely possible the mother was unable to produce milk because of her unnatural intake and total deprivation of critical nutrients.
At any rate, this is nothing short of child abuse. I hope they get locked away for killing a child. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -93/+237Good lord, they could have at least fed him meat until he grew up a bit and had some weight... No baby should die at 3 1/2 pounds-- better yet-- no one should die at 3 and 1/2 pounds.. ever.
I guess that's just a part of the ignorance that many vegans have-- they think they know what is best for everyones health.
Very sad story... - longboarder543, on 10/12/2007, -5/+143"The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin."
They had a hospital across the street and they never took him to see a doctor, not even during birth? What the hell is wrong with people? - TheSchwa, on 10/12/2007, -9/+145 I'm a vegan and have been so for a couple years. I've actually gained weight, and gone up to a healthy bmi. This isn't so much about their particular diet, the parents were just plain idiots. It was a home birth, and the child was so ridiculously small that anyone who had seen the child should have noticed that something was wrong, and no matter what the diet, a child shouldn't live off of only two primary nutritional sources especially when those two are apple joice and soy milk. These people simply did not know anything about PARENTING!
I've worked in a nursery with kids who are allergic to both milk, meat, and other animal products, you just have to go to a doctor or a specialist, but these parents obviously did neither. - FyreGoddess, on 10/12/2007, -9/+125The problem isn't that these people were vegans, it's that they didn't really understand what it means to BE vegan. Vegan or not, babies that young should be on a diet of breast milk or formula - NOT soy milk.
The fact that they didn't "realize" that their baby might possibly be in danger leads me to believe that they hadn't taken him to a doctor at all. This isn't a case of being pseudo-intellectuals, it's a case of being grossly ignorant about a lifestyle that *can* be a healthy and viable choice. I'm sure that there will be some backlash on vegans, but this isn't the product of a lifestyle/nutrition choice, it's the product of stupidity and lack of information.
My guess would be that this couple is probably not even very social with anyone, since SOMEONE would have noticed that the baby was getting smaller and smaller and being fed apple juice at only a few weeks old. - Rhino2, on 10/12/2007, -8/+112Has nothing to do with the fact they where vegen.
First of all, the kid was born in a bathtub.
Secondly there is a hospital ACROSS the street from their apartment.
Third - breast milk is "ok" with most every vegen.
Fourth - they didn't take him to the hospital till AFTER the baby was dead.
Fifth - there are PLENTY of vegan diets that are healthy for babies.
Sixth - they weren't "vegan", until they needed a defense to get out of killing their baby.
Don't blame this on vegans, blame this on really bad parents. - Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -10/+87My wife and I know a couple who basically starved their kid into slight mental retardation. Even to this day, they don't acknowledge their son's stunted development, preferring to ignore he has all the brains of a drunken redneck (as well as the destructive capabilities). They fed their kid the same baby food day after day, without varying his diet (I mean, strained carrots for a week and a half. Not just the same brand). The mother didn't match the kid's age to the nipples she was putting on his formula bottles, which meant that most of the time the kid wasn't able to eat enough. After a time limit the mother arbitrarily set, she'd take the bottle away, figuring her son "wasn't hungry."
The fact that the parents were die-hard religious to the point that they thought they were infallible in their decisions didn't help. - azurechaos, on 10/12/2007, -12/+88Ok to set it straight: most vegans I know are in support of breastfeeding their children because it IS natural. Yes, sure, humans are animals, but the reason people go vegan is because there's no way for an animal to consent, and obviously a mother would be consenting to breastfeed her baby.
This is a case of ignorance on the parents' part and is in no way a general reflection of veganism, so please stop using this as an outlet for talking ***** about veganism. There have also been omnivorous parents who have starved their children out of ignorance. This particular case just gives people another reason to latch onto when the real cause is because the parents are stupid. - Eivo, on 10/12/2007, -13/+84"Dumb Ass Parents Starve Baby to Death on Soy Milk/Apple Juice Diet"
Fixed - macaddct1984, on 10/12/2007, -3/+66I am vegan, I don't take supplements and I live a very healthy lifestyle.
However, all over soy milk and similar products it clearly states "NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR BABY FORMULA".
"Humans are animals. Breast milk is therefore an animal product. Is it against the vegan ethic to breast-feed your child?"
No, it's not, these parents were ***** parents, plain and simple - satanatnmtedu, on 10/12/2007, -46/+109Talk about ignorant *****. Most of the posters in this thread are ignorant *****.
My sister (who is 28 mine you) got only soy milk when she was a baby until she could handle more complex foods. There are multiple soy milk products on the market today - Similac is a prime example which is fed to millions of babies with no ill effects. Those of you who state that soy milk is not enough are truly clueless about the realities of the world.
The parents neglected the child. It has nothing to do with feeding the child soy milk or the parents being vegans. - MrTinker, on 10/12/2007, -9/+69"babies that young should be on a diet of breast milk or formula - NOT soy milk"
Formula is usually made from soy or cow's milk, both of which a baby's system shouldn't be taxed to digest. That's why breastmilk is far and away the best babyfood. Do people really think that 50 years of human science can outsmart millions of years of evolution?
And humans can definately survive without animal protein. - SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/12/2007, -84/+143I have nothing against vegetarians.
But vegans are backward ignorant ***** who think they're intellectuals. - bmartin, on 10/12/2007, -34/+82Are there any vegans here on Digg? I have a question for all of you.
Humans are animals. Breast milk is therefore an animal product. Is it against the vegan ethic to breast-feed your child? This has been shown time and time again to be the healthiest way to feed a baby. There's no excuse for this poor infant's death, even on a ***** vegan diet. - SammyJr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+44@ satanatnmtedu
Soy milk != Soy formula. Big difference. - ronh, on 10/12/2007, -16/+54@betterth
"It's entirely possible the mother was unable to produce milk because of her unnatural intake and total deprivation of critical nutrients."
Actually that's completely false my wife is vegan has been for 10 years and has breast feed both our children. Anyone that tells you a vegan diet would affect there ability to breast feed has other medical complications or is lying. - azurechaos, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42"One can not survive and thrive on a vegan diet without supplements. It is not natural. Humans are omnivorous and require animal protein. That is all there is to it."
Are you kidding me? I've been vegan for over five years, rarely take supplements, and I've had nutritional analyses taken of my health and blood, saying that I'm perfectly healthy. I know one guy who grew up on a farm and went vegan and has been for about 35 years, never used supplements.
There are plant foods that provide all the essential amino acids that humans need. Case in point: hemp has all the essential fatty acids we need. Even omega-3, which is also available in walnuts, flax seeds, and leafy greens. Eating a varied diet will get you all of the proteins you need. And you want to know what else? I have a high level of protein in my blood. Normal range for protein level is about 6.0-8.3 grams per deciliter, and I have 7.8 grams in my blood. So suck it.
I think supplements can likely be beneficial to many people, not just vegan. Omnivorous people normally have plenty of nutritional deficiencies as well. It's not limited to vegans. - ESTEBEVERDE, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38***** are for FEEDING BABIES!
If you have a baby use them accordingly. - AriaStar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+37"The couple's attorneys said they didn't realize their baby, born at home, was in danger until minutes before he died."
Bull ***** *****. He was emaciated. They would have to be retarded to not know he was starving to death with bones clearly visible. - dannyross, on 10/12/2007, -8/+43@spacemonkeyzero
"But vegans are backward ignorant ***** who think they're intellectuals"
wow all vegans?
Do you stereotype entire races and religious groups as well?
People like you should stay away from digg. - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36captmonkey
Most vegans raising their baby vegan do breast feed. In fact, it is pretty critical that they do so, as this article makes apparent.
I'd like to point out that for most of human history, a vegan diet could be considered pretty natural. We didn't start getting milk and eggs from other animals until agriculture ~10,000 years ago. Hunting has never been necessary given the proper climate and local fauna (I am not saying all humans were vegan, I am saying it was natural for some humans to be vegan and healthy enough to become adults). If humans could raise their babies on a vegan diet 20,000 years ago, it is pretty obvious these parents ***** up and it's no indication of veganism itself.
As a vegan, I find my lifestyle is often misunderstood. Most vegans I know make it a personal decision and do not judge others. But at the same time, in return, we find that a significant minority of non-vegans are the opposite and make it their business. They feel like their lifestyle is somehow under attack, and they need to counterattack by being *****. I apologize for any vegans who do the same to non-vegans, they don't represent us.
One other thing: most vegans are not vegan for health reasons. It is far healthier to eat eggs, milk, chicken, fish, etc. People who raise their babies vegan (like the retards in this article) should consult a doctor and literature specifically about it. - mikedpirone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+32My parents fed me soy formula throughout my nursing phase as a child because I was born with a horrid lactose intolerance. Soy formula and soy milk are two entirely different things. Soy formula contains extra vitamins, minerals, and nutrients needed for a child to develop correctly, where as soy milk does not contain these added nutrients (not to mention most soy milk cartons state "DO NOT USE AS INFANT FORMULA"). These parents were just plain retarded and neglected the child. Any normal person knows that a new born should not weigh only 3.5 pounds. The baby should have been brought to a physcian which would have given them a proper feeding regiment. They diserve whatever punishment they get for being failures at life.
- onaps6453, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30The amount of hate being displayed here against people that choose a lifestyle is completely disgusting. First of all, lets look at something extremely important and very relevant, we as mammals are the only ones that consume milk after infancy as WELL as the only mammal to consume milk from a COMPLETELY different mammal than ourselves. A little weird eh?
In any case. My mother was a vegetarian halfway through carrying me 29 years ago and then had a rabid craving for steak. I grew up eating meat in low portions (red meat once a week, chicken 2-3 times a week, no pork ever). Around the age of 19, I decided to stop eating all animal products except for eggs on occasion. The reason why I stopped and continue to not eat meat is a simple one. The meat industry is one of the filthiest mismanaged industries in the world, if not the most. If any of you who ate meat saw the conditions that these animals are raised in, you would most likely vomit. It is extremely rare for animals to be raised and killed in a clean, humane way. Even the so called "free range" farms for chickens are never what you think they are. There was an interesting topic on NPR about a year ago that revealed that the only thing that qualifies being "Free range" is that the chickens are kept in cages all day for their entire life, however, for an hour a day these cages are opened up and the chickens are free to leave and go outside through a small door to graze. Yeah...they never do. they know nothing BUT the cage. I
It's all a sham. It is all screwed up. I have no problem with eating meat. I DO have a problem with the way it is done in the current meat industry. And that is why I am a vegetarian.
Oh and these parents? Friggin dumbasses. I say that in eating so many vegetables, they themselves became vegetables judging on their complete lack of judgement and idealism. Morons.
If you don't want to eat meat, then don't. If you eat meat, then go right ahead. But lets try and concentrate on the people that are GIVING us this meat and lets all try and make it a better world by holding these people accountable for their actions.
Sorry for the rant...but this stirred something up inside me. - hayzeus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31@davev
"I call *****. The human body needs certain amino acids it can not produce and only occur in meat. I have been told this by both a nutritionist and a nurse."
No -- you misunderstood. Meat generally contains all nine essential amino acids, but most vegetable proteins lack at least one. The solution is to eat more than one kind of vegetable protein. For example, you can't survive only on peanuts, but you can survive on only on whole-grain peanut butter sandwiches -- although death might be preferable. - AzBats, on 10/12/2007, -13/+41This is from the same site which gave us the fake story of the 11yr old defending her home from 'illegle* home invaders" with a shotgun.
I would also take this story with a huge dump tuck full of salt.
*bad spelling comes directly from the fake submission. - mykos, on 10/12/2007, -8/+36"They're not vegans, they're baby killers," Fulton prosecutor Mike Carlson told the jury Tuesday during his closing arguments.
- captinherb, on 10/12/2007, -4/+32@satanatnmtedu
>>"Talk about ignorant *****. Most of the posters in this thread are ignorant *****. My sister (who is 28 mine you) got only soy milk when she was a baby until >>she could handle more complex foods. There are multiple soy milk products on the market today - Similac is a prime example which is fed to millions of >>babies with no ill effects. Those of you who state that soy milk is not enough are truly clueless about the realities of the world."
Similac is formula, it has soy milk IN it. It isn't soy milk. Dumb ass. - kelbear, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33@docboss
Eating fresh raw meat is doable. I'm talking slashed off the still-warm corpse.
Eating processed raw meat, the stuff you pick up at the supermarket, has gone down a conveyor belt and speed-hacked to pieces rapid-fire by workers who aren't paid enough to give a damn about one haunch that blazes by on the line.
So the intestines get slashed, and feces end up spill out all over the carcass and the worker. Now you've got ecoli all over it. But the line keeps moving and the worker has to keep working. At best they'll just brush it off later down the line, ground beef has all that *****(literally) mixed throughout the meat. Thick solid meats like steak may be ok since it'll be from deeper down where the bacteria may not have spread yet, but you still run the risk.
That's why you ground beef medium well, and steaks, medium rare. The outside needs to be cooked.
Eat if off the animal and you'll be fine so long as the animal itself isn't sick. - macaddct1984, on 10/12/2007, -6/+32@davev
"I call *****. The human body needs certain amino acids it can not produce and only occur in meat. I have been told this by both a nutritionist and a nurse."
Well, I can't prove it to you, but I'm about 6"1', 180lbs, I ride my bike, I work 9-5 and remain pretty energetic.
/shrug - djbelieve, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30Obviously these parents were out of their minds. This is no reason to bash veganism. From Wikipedia:
Studies have strongly correlated a plant based diet with better health benefits than the Standard American Diet. Vegans note additional health benefits are gained by not consuming artificial substances such as growth hormones and antibiotics, which are often given to farmed animals.
The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada state that "well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence. Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death from ischemic heart disease; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer."
Vegan diets tend toward several nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat and cholesterol, and higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, antioxidant vitamins C and E and phytochemicals.
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine says that one small scale study has observed that a vegan diet can reduce blood cholesterol in people with, and significantly reduce the complications of Type 2 diabetes.
There are a number of vegan athletes. Vegan athletes compete in a variety of sports, such as powerlifting, bodybuilding, martial arts, long distance running, and many others. Multiple Olympic gold medallist Carl Lewis has stated that he became vegan in 1990 and achieved his "best year of track competition" when he ate a vegan diet. - ronh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24The ***** is so thick in this thread it's difficult to breathe.
As a vegan who is very active in my own personal health with dietary and martial arts and also as a parent of two boys I can tell you with no doubt in my mind that children and adults can have a vegan diet living perfectly happy and healthy lives. My oldest son who is now 3 ½ is very healthy and never has been considered underweight or sickly in any way shape or form. My youngest was born 11 lbs and to this day is a round plump guy.
Breast milk is the key, I can bet that this “mother” did not feed the child breast milk, and every human baby child as almost all mammals needs this. The first six months breast milk provides the most balanced intake of nutrition and antibodies except for vitamin D which should be supplemented.
Why people do not breast feed there children is beyond me, if you are physically incapable then use formula it’s certainly not as good as breast milk but its better then “soy milk and apple juice”
The problem here is not that the parents were vegan but that the parents where grossly incompetent about there child’s health and diet.
Calling this an issue with veganism is *****. The carnivore/omnivore version of this would be feeding a baby the diet of meat and potatoes with no breast milk. Both situations of course are ridiculous and gross. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22Wasn't this the plot of a House episode?
- HarryHunt, on 10/12/2007, -21/+43I'm a tolerant person, but most people are just too dumb to handle veganism. If you want to be vegan and live healthy, you pretty much need to be a nutrition expert because it's very hard to get all the nutriants you need without resorting to animal products. Vegetarianism however is a totally different story. You don't need to be very educated for that.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21And that about sums it up. The issue here isn't veganism, it's that the parents were negligent, malicious and flat out ***** stupid.
- PATSCRU, on 10/12/2007, -18/+39spacemonkey:
a bit unfair to lump all vegans together? there's ***** like this, and then there's the sane ones.....kind of like alcoholics, there's the level-headed alcoholic who can rage when he wants to, hold a steady job, and who makes your life that much brighter that you couldn't have a good time without him, and there's some who kill children on drunk-driving sprees.
it's a valiant effort, but some take it a little too seriously. - ryangolden, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25I rarely comment on Digg due to the fact that zealous, close-minded, easily threatened people are more prevalent here than on Slashdot, but I'll acquiesce just this once.
It seems that whenever ANY topic relating to veganism/vegetarianism/PETA/Animal Rights/et al. are posted, the majority of the responses are incredibly spiteful. And yes, certain portions of the vegan populace are outspoken and tend to get under people's skin, oddly enough this is acceptable when declaring your political/religious/* affiliations.
Last time I checked, humans can decide on their own what diet to adhere to, this isn't a case of vegans automatically being bad parents, it's simply a sad instance where two people were not capable of raising a child on their own. Shockingly this is not the first time parents have accidentally killed their children via diet (or lack thereof.) The instantaneous, knee-jerk reaction to the word "vegan" is just as bad as O'Reilly's instant demonization of "liberals" which you all get so worked up over.
On a side note, I've been vegan for over 5 years, am physically fit and take 0 supplements at all.
Cue 10 pages of "All Vegans are just as bad as Islamic Jihadists" posts. - sleepykit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Sounds like the parents had no clue on how to care for a newborn, vegan or not. Any sane person, no matter what they eat/don't eat could make the educated guess that if their child was losing weight or not gaining weight, something must be wrong. Let's blame the idiot parents at fault and not their lifestyle.
- punkdemons, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21This has nothing to do with them being "hippies" and EVERYTHING to do with them being completely and utterly IGNORANT
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+28I actually have been on a vegan diet for over a month now, mostly just to stay healthy an lose some weight. Obviously what these parents did was absolutely wrong but being a vegan is not all that bad. I lost weight really fast and have much more energy than I used to, plus studies that have come out say that people who eat more plant products and less meat live longer.
I still love the flesh of dead animals though; and have no problem with any of my friends that aren't vegans. But yes i agree some vegans are idiots. - yougene, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20What's happened to Digg? This place has become way too fanatic. What ever happened to rationality?
Humans have evolved from omnivorous primates. We have only recently started eating meat as such our body's are partially adapted to digesting and handling meat. Yeah it's an easy fix for amino acids and riboflavin, BUT humans weren't made to live on a predominantly meat diet. Meat to pre-historic proto-humans would have been a rare catch, the majority of the diet wouuld have been plant based. Just take a look at the food pyramid, meat is only a small portion of a healthy balanced diet.
Vegans can have a hard time getting all their essential amino acids if they don't follow an informed nutrition plan. On the other hand meat eaters can have a hard time not getting strokes, heart attacks, chronic obesity, diabetes, or cancer from ungodly amounts of cholesterol and animal growth hormone if they don't follow an informed nutrition plan.
Somehow I doubt alot of these people running there mouths on here have any realistic conception of what healthy nutrition is. - Otto, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22I thought that as well... But...
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2007/05/02/0503metvegan.html
There you go. Right from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. So it's real. -
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