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- bananasluggy, on 10/05/2008, -6/+61The problem with health insurance is that it makes the care of the sick a business transaction. People who are sick cost money to treat. All businesses do their best to cut costs so they can maximize profits. No business wants to take on clients that will pay far less than what they cost the company. So, we wind up with a system that shuns the sick and welcomes the healthy, because healthy people pay their premiums and don't ask for services.
Health care, by its very nature, is going to cost more than people can themselves pay. People like to say that socialized medicine is evil, that it takes away your freedoms, yadda yadda. But how free are you if you have no insurance whatsoever? Even if you do have insurance, you can't see any doctor you'd like to see... you get a list. You can only see those doctors. If you want to see others, you pay for it yourself. If you get prescribed a medication, you'd better hope your insurance company is willing to pay for it, otherwise, guess what? You pay for them out of pocket, or you ask your doctor what drugs on the company's list he thinks might do you some good. Most plans don't cover injectables, which is a nice way of saying, "diabetics go away."
I've known people who were turned down for "pre-existing medical conditions," because they'd had a urinary tract infection. I knew one guy who couldn't get insurance because he had a mild UTI from his circumcision as a baby. The guy is 27 and otherwise in perfect health. A UTI for crying out loud. Drink a crapload of cranberry juice and it'll go away (if it's mild.)
And unlike your doctor, your insurance company did not take any oath to "do no harm."
Health care you can't afford is hardly the best in the world. When someone being carted off in an ambulance is thinking, "Oh ***** how am I going to pay for this?" instead of, "I hope nothing serious is wrong with me," we've got a problem. Sick people shouldn't be thinking, "Crap, I'm going to go bankrupt, there's no way I can afford this," they should be thinking about how they're going to get better.
I find it insane that about half my tax dollars are going towards military spending (oh and now we've got money to bailout banks too, where'd that come from?), and that's OK by the government, but they have no spare cash to offer health insurance. If the government took charge of things, do you think Big Pharma would be allowed to charge whatever the hell they wanted for their drugs? The fact that they sell them for less elsewhere means they can make a profit doing so. If a medication costs $.05 to make, why should you be charged $40 for it (and that's if it's the cheap version)?
The system has people brainwashed into thinking government-sponsored health care is evil and a Bad Idea... but the business model is hardly working, either. Feel free to be against, "Socialized Medicine." You'd better hope you never get sick. - MavTheMaverick, on 10/05/2008, -1/+46Doctors get screwed over by insurance almost as much as people do
- syndustry, on 10/05/2008, -3/+39I say we demand that no representative be granted any health benefits. Force the plight of the uninsured on to congress and see how long it takes for us to have comprehensive universal healthcare.
- mediablitz, on 10/06/2008, -2/+37I have a very dear friend in the hospital right now. She is 25, single, and uninsured. She had a horrifying accident that was not her fault, but left her in a coma for 7 days, and many surgeries and skin grafts still to come, along with months of rehabilitation.
She had a full time job, worked hard, but was not provided health insurance by her employer (too expensive). She was just hoping to work until she could afford insurance.
Now, she will have hundreds of thousands in medical bills. We are supposedly the greatest nation on earth, but we don't take care of the basic needs of our people. It is embarrassing. - AmyVernon, on 10/05/2008, -1/+23I appreciate this doctor sharing his story. Just goes to show that even the most educated person when it comes to health and insurance can end up being screwed over by the system.
- valleyvideo, on 10/06/2008, -0/+20My father's been a doc for 30+ years and has never made so little. The insurance companies have sucked all the money from medicine and we're not too far away from experiencing the final result: no one wants to be a doctor anymore because they get all of the legal risk and none of the financial benefit of medical care.
- stillasleep00, on 10/06/2008, -0/+13Doctors aren't people?
- consonance, on 10/06/2008, -0/+12Hey, remember that one time when Henry Kaiser told Richard Nixon his great plan for a healthcare system, where insurance companies make money by treating sick people less, and Richard Nixon liked it, and Henry Kaiser started Kaiser Permanente, and that become the model for Amerca's health insurance market and now the biggest bankruptcy factor among Americans is healthcare costs?
Yeah, that was pretty funny. - Khast, on 10/06/2008, -0/+12For the people digging this down, he's right. Why is it that even the insured can still be hit with mind numbingly high doctor's bills...or even worse yet have their insurance revoked for just seeing a doctor?
Personally, if there isn't a standard. The health insurance companies should have regulation, at least. Having a full list WHICH THE INSURED CAN LOOK AT...of what the insurance company can and won't cover. The conditions of coverage, and what conditions the insurance company can reject coverage. Make it so there is no surprises for the insured. And have in place a complaints based court, for violations of this list...which is not biased to aiding the insurance company, or the patient...make it completely neutral and fact based. (Yeah, like that will ever happen, fairness in the US?!?! never...if you aren't wealthy, there is no fairness.) - bRUTALkANOODLE, on 10/06/2008, -1/+13I have type 1 diabetes and am now 37 weeks pregnant.
Neither me nor my baby had any prenatal care until two weeks ago, when I qualified for medicaid.
Medicaid. I work full time, my husband has been working fulltime, and the only way I could even BEGIN to afford insurance of any kind was by appealing to the government.
Two weeks ago, I went to the OB/GYN for the first time. I ended up in the hospital for pre-eclampsia. I thought, well, the government is paying for it because I can't afford it. I will go to the hospital and try to not think about it, try to get to a position where my life and the life of my baby is not at risk. The doctors tried to get me restrained, because I did not want to stay, rack up a giant bill, and have missed work which would have been my only chance to pay for what I needed to survive.
I stayed in the hospital, with my blood sugars scaring the doctors and my baby's heartrate going crazy. They were certain I'd waited to long, and would suffer permanent kidney damage, as well as lose my baby.
I stayed for only a few hours. The government paid $1000 of my health care. I still owe them over 2000.
I've been in and out of the hospital since then. I'm just trying to stay alive at this point. My kidneys are failing, and they have to get the baby out of me on Tuesday, just to keep me alive. They can't promise he'll survive now, because his lungs, kidneys, heart and spinal cord are all showing problems.
What is it that they want from me? "Yes, we'll make sure you don't die right now, but in return, you must never have any money."
If a few hours in the hospital cost over 3000 dollars, what is my stay going to cost when I have to have a real operation? When I go in for my c-section, am I just determining the rest of my fate? Will I be spending the next ten years trying to recoup what it cost me to LIVE?
It doesn't seem fair. I don't want to burden other people with my health problems, or the cost to cover them. But why must it be so hard for me to survive?
Why do I have to be rich in order to live? - PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -4/+14Health Care works in Norway,the U.K and France. In fact, even Japan has socialized medicine. It's a fact that we are the only First World country that doesn't have health care taken care of by the government
- dsmx, on 10/06/2008, -4/+14How could socialised medicine be any worse than the current system the US has? Socialised medicine works in every other country in the world.
- TVarmy, on 10/06/2008, -1/+11The fact that someone as educated and gainfully employed as a doctor can't afford good private insurance really throws a wrench in the right wing idea that a low tax rate will give people enough money to buy their own insurance.
- dsmx, on 10/06/2008, -1/+11Infact I believe every nation in the world pays less for healthcare per person than the US.
- durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -3/+12
France pays less per person for health care than we do.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. - hadak, on 10/06/2008, -1/+10$1700/mo? $450/mo? Hell, I can't afford $10, and therefore, if I get bumped or broken, I suffer...because this country's healthcare system is *****.
- mydjtl, on 10/06/2008, -2/+10Health care is a human right and should be free... just like in all other developed nations...
- Spuy767, on 10/06/2008, -0/+8Health care isn't expensive, bureaucracy is expensive. If you take out all the people that have their grimy hands on the healthcare system, then you'll end up with a solution that everyone can afford. YOu don't think that if we did have a socialized system of healthcare that you'd be getting expensive no-bid contracts instead of a bidder based system where people were held accountable instead of having more money thrown at them when they ***** up?
- mardraum, on 10/06/2008, -1/+9waaah, doctors get paid a higher salary. it's not as if there was any hardship in becoming one and it's not like they have tough jobs. I should get paid that much for being a stockboy.
you are a ***** ***** head. - PamalaLauren, on 10/06/2008, -1/+8Have you ever thought that if this nation focused on preventive care for all that perhaps health care costs would go down? That people wouldn't get sick? I would think providing insurance to all and allowing the preventative care they need would actually benefit the nation, not harm it.
You are selfish. Very much so. You'd rather have my child die than fork out a little bit of money to help her. And that's sad. And my husband works, makes a lot of money, but if McCain wins this election and puts his health care plan into action my husband's employer will not be able to afford insurance anymore. Then my child will not have access to the life saving medications and care she gets often because she does not qualify for state programs due to our income being so high and she's denied private insurance due to a pre-existing condition.
Do you not see how this system punishes those who made no choice in the matter? Those born with disorders. My child didn't chose to have her disorder but she does. How do you suggest we get her the treatment and care she needs without bankrupting ourselves?
The Constitution is there to protect my right to life right? What about my child's right to live by getting medication to keep her alive? Or do only the healthy have the right to life? - Brian48216, on 10/06/2008, -4/+11don't talk too loudly- lest you incur the wrath of Ron Paul supporters and their belief of free market infallibility.
- robbh66, on 10/06/2008, -1/+8You are sadly misinformed on the realities of what it is like to be a doctor.
Over the last few decades the insurance companies are the ones making all the money now, for basically doing regular work. At least doctors are working their ass off for what they make (which is nothing compared to what they used to make). - fishshogun, on 10/06/2008, -0/+7I have health insurance and they don't pay for anything. I pay $400 a month and every time I submit any thing which is rare they refuse it. I went to the hospital one time for an emergency and they paid about half I had to pay about $25,000.
I would love to know where our military dollars go. I have repeatedly sent soap, shampoo,
toothpaste.......to Iraq for our soldiers who needed it. Go look down the list at anysoldier.com
and check out the things they need. You'd think the gov could supply soap.
You are absolutely right in your statement. Not even touching the bank bailout...... - PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -1/+8You must consider other essential government services stealing too?
Maintaining roads without tolls? Stealing
Fire Department putting out fires? Stealing
Police not making victims pay to investigate? Stealing
Sanitation department taking garbage away? Stealing - quickgold192, on 10/06/2008, -0/+6how about vote for representatives that support universal health care? that's what republics were designed for.
- dsmx, on 10/06/2008, -1/+7The current system isn't free market
- bananasluggy, on 10/06/2008, -1/+7Someone chooses to buy an expensive car--no one chooses to get horribly sick.
A person can do everything right--eat right, exercise, work-out, stay out of the sun, say no to drugs, and whatnot, and still have something horrible go wrong. Should people do their best to keep themselves healthy? Yes. Should they be punished when they've done all they can, and still fail?
A civilization is hardly civil when we throw our weak and wounded into the streets (effectively) to rot. It's not about the government taking care of people--it's about us, as a society, taking care of each other through our government.
After all, the government only governs because we, the people, allow them to do so. It's there to make things more efficient... if it's not doing that, it's not doing its job. - PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -2/+8Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than some U.S cities. Oh right, corporate welfare folks don't like facts.
- bobcatman, on 10/06/2008, -0/+6We should totally try to grassroots this. Same thing with SS, most people don't know that congress pays into a different system, a better system.
- RobotBuddha, on 10/06/2008, -0/+6That'll work wonderfully when we get a population which elects representatives based on voting records instead of speeches. So, basically, after we're all long dead.
- oSallyo, on 10/06/2008, -2/+7I am glad I am an Aussie girl.
With all the problems and faults our system has here in Australia, at least everyone gets looked after under our public system, and everyone can get private medical insurance if they want it.
The majority of prescription medications are subsidised by the government, if you go to hospital, you will be treated, regardless of what private insurance you have (though you may wait a while if it is not a potential life threatening problem).
You can even find GP's that bulk bill (ie no charge to you, they accept what the government pays).
I am glad I like in Australia. - PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5@NoCommies.
You say that like that's a bad thing. Sweden is socialist and is one of the best countries to live in. They actually value privacy there. - lazyfisherman, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5God damn I hate my health insurance...
http://www.fandalism.com/index.cfm?songid=216499 - collution, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5"Exactly, why people don't understand this already is beyond me."
- belebih, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5I'd say making sure people don't die in hospital floors because they can't pay inflated premiums or are just not profitable enough to treat is pretty goddamn essential.
- gregster69, on 10/06/2008, -2/+7Every time I need to see a doctor, which is not very often 'touch wood' It reminds me I'm glad I don't live in the US
- belebih, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5"Why does your answer to this question change when we're talking health care?"
Because you changed from talking about cars to talking about people. You're seriously comparing the value of cars to the value of human lives? That's ***** up. - bal00, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5"...but there is no way that I should be covering unemployed Joe Sixpack's health insurance"
You already do. The question is just whether you want to pay for his insulin now or countless ER visits and surgeries that will be the result of him not being able to afford it. - vtnerd, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5Nowhere. Most of our government is unconstitutional, but that doesn't stop anyone.
- orangehero2000, on 10/06/2008, -0/+5The insurance companies are the problem. If the US gov could get out of bed with them maybe costs could come under control, but I don't foresee that happening. Why can't we take the best of the other nationalized systems and make them better. I thought we were supposed to be innovative. Maybe try it on a five year basis (i.e. until the time I hope to be at point to afford insurance!)
Don't give me that free market crap either. The past couple weeks have shown us how awesome the 'free market' invisible hand is. The free market has given us catastrophe.
Let's put our best people, our best minds on this.
National health care FTW! - PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -1/+6Your analogy falls short when a healthy person who pays for insurance becomes sick and the insurance company drops them like a hot potato. If people had adequate health coverage, you could prevent them from being sicker later. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Also paying a little now to prevent disease is a lot cheaper to the taxpayer than paying a lot to treat them later
- lazyfisherman, on 10/06/2008, -0/+4Excellent summary of what's wrong with the health insurance business.
- jessehadden, on 10/06/2008, -1/+5Thank you. For those who can't understand what he's talking about, it's reality. It WILL hit you someday. And then, all of your theories of free market utopianism will take a back seat to that gnawing pain in your gut. Get real, people. This is human life we're talking about. There's no point in remaining a society if we don't take care of each other.
- inactive, on 10/06/2008, -0/+4In Uk we just call the doctor, and go along. If we feel really bad they visit our house. If we're seriously illl we're in hospital before we know it. At no point in any of these procedures does the thought of money enter our heads. There is now an incredible strain on the NHS, because it wasn't conceived to give hip replacements to 90 year olds and triple heart bypass etc. to pensioners. It was conceived for the kid with the broken leg, the woman with the dodgy pregnancy, the man with appendicitis. The huge amount of old people (due to the NHS keeping everyone alive for free) are now the problem of the NHS. It may sound callous but they shouldn't waste so many of their resources on really old people. They've had their time. Move on to the next level.
- inactive, on 10/06/2008, -0/+4I for one am willing to wait for non emergency appointments. Hell, I haven't had insurance since 2000. A little bit of wait is nothing compared to no appt at all. Besides under a gov. plan, people can still buy private insurance if they feel insecure about gov run situation.
- sliksta, on 10/06/2008, -0/+4Maybe he pays child support. Maybe he has employment problems from discriminatory employers. Not everyone has disposable income.
- TVarmy, on 10/06/2008, -0/+4There's precious few. I'd vote for Kucinich, but he's in Ohio. My state doesn't have any congresspeople with the audacity to ask for something they fear to be divisive.
- HyperionHK, on 10/06/2008, -0/+3THat's a real shame. I can't understand how ANYONE can believe that it's a good idea to put Health Care in charge of private, FOR PROFIT companies.
I know that if I need anything medical, I may have to sit in a waiting room for most of the day, but I can get it done. If I injure myself and need stitches or something, I may have to wait awhile even then if it's not life threatening, but at least I don't have to worry about how much it will cost and decide whether I want to risk letting it heal on it's own because it'll cost too much to get it fixed.
For a supposedly great country, it sure treats it's citizens like ***** sometimes - RobotBuddha, on 10/06/2008, -0/+3The thing is 'everyone' suffers. I'm fairly ok now, but the year I was hardly able to walk and couldn't afford treatment was a burdon on everyone around me, from family to people at the supermarket.
- PistolSO, on 10/06/2008, -0/+3The U.N says health care is a fundamental human right, and through treaty, we are part of the U.N and case law says treaties that don't conflict with the Bill of Rights is co-equal with the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't not forbid the government from handling health care, ergo by treaty, health care is a fundamental human right. Now digg me down, libertarians
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