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125 Comments
- Kaioshin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+31I won't worry about it until it's call Soylent (specifically Green).
Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?
Besides, lately people are overdoing it with this sort of thing. Why don't we just inject the daily requirements of various nutrients into our blood stream directly? Or would it have bad effects, too? - etresoft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18Supposedly one should only eat Soy products after fermentation. That is why people in Asia don't have problems with it.
I try to avoid it myself. I try to avoid any products that are put into food for the sole purpose of making it cheaper or increasing shelf life. Eat local. Eat fresh. Know what you are eating. - sik0fewl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20@merm
Read the article before commenting please:
'Fitzpatrick, however, looked into historic soya consumption in Japan and China and concluded that Asians did not actually eat that much. What they did eat tended to have been fermented for months. "If you look at people who are into health fads here, they are eating soya steaks and veggie burgers or veggie sausages and drinking soya milk - they are getting over 100g a day. They are eating tonnes of the raw stuff."'
And there's even more information on it if you have time to read the entire article. - rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Soylent Green is People!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16The Japanese only eat fermented soy? I call shenanigans.
One word: edamame. - airship, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I'm in Iowa, the heart of ADM and Cargill country. Everywhere you look there are fields and fields of soybeans.
We ship trainloads full of soybeans out of here every day. You know what we eat? Beef and pork. :) - Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10FERMENTED soy has been eaten for a long time, although it was originally developed as fertilizer..
I try to stay away from unfermented soy. It damages thyroid tissue causing hypothyroidism, can promote female cancers and keeps you from absorbing many minerals and vitamins. It also can cause birth defects.
Any so called 'health benefits' are lies promoted by the soybean industry.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/ - RabidNinja, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12@merm
Well, if you read the article you would find out that we are eating much more raw soy than any of the asian countries, and our processing techniques fruther increase the levels of phyto-oestrogens far beyond what's normally present. And as far as "in large quantities", that's exactly what the article is describing, the fact that we have managed to fit soy into just about every food source we consume, and are therefore practically forced to eat soy "in large quantities."
"Fitzpatrick, however, looked into historic soya consumption in Japan and China and concluded that Asians did not actually eat that much. What they did eat tended to have been fermented for months."
"What the committee also pointed out was that the way soya was processed affected the levels of phyto-oestrogens. Traditional fermentation reduces the levels of isoflavones two- to threefold. Modern factory processes do not. Moreover, modern American strains of soya have significantly higher levels of isoflavones than Japanese or Chinese ones because they have been bred to be more resistant to pests." - cosmotron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8That's right.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean - merm, on 10/12/2007, -19/+27The key here is "in large quantities" it's not healthy. NOTHING is healthy in large quantities, people die from drinking too much water, eating too much meat, too much processed food etc.
Many cultures eat TONS of soy products and have far fewer health problems than the United States or Europe. Think of how much soy Japanese or Chinese are getting in their diet, yet they have among the lowest rate of obesity and heart disease in the world.
It's processed food, excessive fats, carbs, protein (read: an unbalanced diet) that is unhealthy. Not eating a moderate amount of soy.
There's rumors out there that if you eat tofu or drink soymilk you'll grow man-boobs. Give me a break. - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Eggs are good.
Eggs are bad.
Eggs are good.
Eggs are bad.
....The yolk is bad, the whites are OK...
Make up your mind! IT'S BREAKFAST, I GOTTA EAT!
- Lewis Black - UnderWurlde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@C0001: Eating carrots in large quantity is toxic; the beta-carotene in the carrot is a fat-soluble vitamin (A), and as such accumulates in the body, whereas apples with ascorbic acid (vit. C) is water soluble thus gets thrown out in the urine if unused. Side effects of excess vit. A are as bad as liver disease. Look it up if you're interested.
- maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Soya = Soy ?
- JohnyD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"
Clean air. :) - ericmoritz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8To many banana's will give you a potassium OD, which will give a made case of the squirts. Other ill effects come with most vitamins if eaten in excesses.
- Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6WRONG. There's been MANY studies done that prove they AREN'T good for you.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz - drgruney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@C00001.... yes they are healthy... but the question was name one thing that doesn't harm us in large quantities. Aside from the obvious joke that a crate full of bananas could crush and kill you, try eating nothing but bananas for a day and not get sick.
- CourageousRobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yeah, and too many carrots will turn your skin orange. Maybe not unhealthy, but a little silly.
http://orangeman.commo.de/ - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14There was a study last year that showed that multi-vitamins supplements cannot substitute the nutrition you get from eating real food. It is related to the way your body digests food, where artificial vitamins and nutrients just won't work as effectively as real food.
Anyway, as I'm a vegetarian and depend hugely on soy for protein in my diet, I can't help but wonder that this article was written by the meat industry to put down meat alternatives made with soy. Soy vs meat campaigns have been going on for years, and I'm healthy as ever. If anything, meat is what clogs up heart arteries, gives you high blood pressure, and makes you become obese ----- which is worse than any possible side effects of soy - dagonweb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ray kurzweil does so. Three or more intraveinous treatments per week.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hell yeah. Vegetables are what food eats.
- C00001, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"
Umm, how about carrots? Or apples? Also, and the results aren't in yet, but it looks like bananas are non-toxic. - SmeRndmGy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I read an article last week about this, how soy has female hormones in it. They were saying that this was a good thing and menopausal women should eat it, but it made me not want to eat soy anymore. If all the men in our society are consuming female hormones every day maybe that is an explanation for the epidemic of pussification that is sweeping this country. Pink shirts, popped collars, makeup on guys, $200 haircuts.... It all makes sense now.
- camiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5solarwinds
The article says the soya increases the protein in processed meat products. Hardly something the meat industry would admit if the story were a plant (no pun intended). - Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Isoflavones AREN'T healthy. They damage thyroid tissue and accelerate brain aging.
- denjin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Some of this article is BS, sorry. From the article:
"Christopher Dawson, who owns the Clearspring brand of organic soy sauces, agrees. He lived in Japan for 18 years and his Japanese wife, Setsuko, is a cookery teacher. "I never saw soy beans on the table in Japan - they're indigestible."
100% wrong. I lived there for a while myself. Eda-mame=soy beans. Boiled eda-mame+salt makes a great snack with beer and lots of Japanese eat them. Are there any studies done that show any extra problems among Japanese?
The article is perhaps talking about just raw or un-fermented I guess, but it's sorta crappily done. (tofu,shoyu,miso,eda-mame,natto, etc are eaten a lot)Does anyone have some real studies done on it that aren't paid by a party with vested interest on either side of it? The most popular shoyu in Japan is the same one sold here, kikkoman. - kingyubba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3regardless how you feel about processed food, GM food, or organic food, you owe it to yourself to see the "Future of Food" documentary.
http://futureoffood.com/ - Langford, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Soy often leaves a funny taste behind anyhow, especially when they try to use it a a substitute for other things. Not to mention it's tendency to exaggerate flatulence. In the end it probably has more to do with how much they use, than whether or not they use it.
- angrycoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3As a bit of anecdotal evidence my mother and her friend were on Nutri-system for about a year, and a lot of their food has soy protein as a main ingredient. To make a long story short, her friend developed thyroid cancer and had to have it removed and my mom experienced reduced thyroid functions and now gets intense allergic reactions if she eats anything that contains even a little bit of soy. So just make sure you don't eat this every day on some kind of diet plan system and just use common sense picking what you eat.
- etresoft, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Crankypants,
Actually, if you're lucky, your food is eating hormone/chemical-injected genetically-modified grain that it was never created/evolved/intelligently designed to eat. If you're not so lucky, your food is eating ground up remnants of other food.
Is there anything more fun than a spongy brain full-o-holes? - moracity, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Like anything else, over consumption of anything will lead to problems. The problem with western culture is that we rely too heavily on fad diets. Soy is certainly a "fad" item that has been injected into everyday food. They are doing the same thing with sucralose. They are injecting sucralose into normal food with no indication...it's not limited to "diet" products. You really have to read labels to avoid this type of stuff. I'm not a health nut, but I do like to be aware of what I'm eating.
Vegetarians who rely heavily on soy-products are asking for trouble. There are plenty of ways to get the protein you need. I'm not a vegetarian, but meat isn't the focus of my diet. I eat far more fruits and vegetables than meat and I still enjoy occasional steaks and chops. I run, so I do boost my protein intake with an occasional protein bar, which is mostly soy protein. However, there are much tastier foods that will give you all the protein you need.
Adult humans really don't need milk or a lot of protein. This is why so many adults are "lactose intolerant". It's not a "condition", it's actually by design. If you aren't active, too much protein can be as bad as too much fat and sugar...maybe even worse.
If you want to be healthy, just use common sense. Everything in moderation and try not to rely on processed foods as the focus of your diet. There's nothing wrong with an occasional Big Mac. - Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Can you send me some? A nice bloody rare slab of cow sounds tasty right now!
- spinalcracker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Soy is evil... especially if you workout at all... read this:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_143soy - RabidNinja, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13We sure are great at overprocessing everything we can get our greedy little hands on.
digg it up! - devr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.talksoy.com/pdfs/SoyandThyroid.pdf
- turbodigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I used to drink soy milk, but once someone told me it had estrogen it was over. F'that.
so now I drink rice milk.... - droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@ lancer & solarwinds
fish is not a vegetable - and anyone who consumes such is not a "vegetarian". - millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Come on, name me ONE thing that can't harm us when consumed in large quantities?"
Sex? - Canthros, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3You need to at least scan the article. The consumption of soy in Asia vs consumption of same in the present-day West are compared. It's not just a difference of strain (although that factor is significant).
- angrycoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Actually, in her conversations with their customer service department she was told that reports to the company of soy allergies and complications from it were increasing. Also, her friend wasn't extremely overweight at all (maybe 15 pounds at most) and had no previous history of thyroid problems. My mom did have an preexisting thyroid condition, but it was, in my estimation, made about a lot worse than what it was before (they had to double her Synthroid dosage).
- idesign, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Anyone got the coles notes version of this article? (some of us are working.... sort of)
- moracity, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you actually read the article, you would see that it not just about soy, it's about how it is used. In it's raw form it is NOT good you. It actually needs to undergo proper processing to extract the benefits the soy industry likes to advertise. Even then, it's not supposed to be the focus of your diet. It's use in Asia has always been supplemental. There are also recent studies linking heavy soy intake to certain types of cancer.
You are just another example of the type of people that have crazy conspiracy theories about things that you don't agree with, but couldn't possibly be the case with something you perceive to be good. Soy was widely introduced to the U.S by Henry Ford, a supreme socialist in capitalist clothing...and adoring fan of Hitler. Certainly not the most auspicious of beginnings. - healthynerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@merm:
No, the key here is FERMENTED SOY v. NON-FERMENTED. It's not only the amount that matters. People from the Asian region knew how to prepare their soy food by fermenting it. During fermentation process the phytochemicals, phyto oestrogen and phytic acid among others, are avoided from consumption. - Dralex75, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It is funny that Soy formula for infants (specifically male ones) is banned in most countries. No, the US is not one of them.
There was a study (feel free to search) showing that a male infant fed nothing but soy formula was getting the equivalent of a fully grown male taking 5 birth control pills a day.
I don't even want to know what that does to a baby boy.. - Quinadal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Well considering most nutritionalists don't know their ass from a hole in the ground, I don't listen to them. Animal fat/protein based diets are the healthiest. Vegetarian/ vegan diets will make you sick.
- tallgreen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@solarwinds
I'm not saying soy is bad, but you don't need to rely on it for protein. It's a bean, you can get great protein from most any bean providing you mix it with rice to complete the amino acid set. And as for meat being a cause of health problems? rubbish. My wife is has been a vegetarian for 15 years and I eat meat everyday. Meat works for my body it doesn't work for hers. I'm skinny as a rail and have low blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. She gets ample protein from fish, eggs, and dairy. It's all about balance and what works for you, not avoiding bad stuff.
In relation to the topic, raw soy should not be consumed like it is. In it's raw form it has a strong medicinal action, estrogenic in nature. It helps with menopausal women, but aside from that, stick with tofu and miso when consuming soy. - mattjvw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Correlation is not causation. All these studies tend to single out one thing as "the problem" in Western diet. I think it's difficult and dangerous to blame any one substance. The obesity in the West vs. the lower incidence of certain cancers in the East could be affected by so many different variables -- genetics, diet, environment, etc. The article touches on this when it mentions that the increased amount of fish in the Eastern diet could be the reason for lower cancer rates (rather than soy). But by the same reasoning, the increased consumption of unnatural processed foods such as partially-hydrogenated oils and high-fructose corn syurp could be responsible for health problems in the West. I'm not defending soy -- I'm not a research scientist -- but out of context from the rest of the variables involved, the article seems to be pointing to soy as the culprit of Western bad health. My intuition is that soy has its positives and negatives, and just removing it from our diet by itself isn't going to make a whole lot of difference.
- droid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2a decent link: http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm
and a nutritionist's response to the article:
Felicity Lawrence’s article about the safety of soya in G2 was a triumph of misrepresentation; misleading in the extreme. She failed to properly introduce Dr Mike Fitzpatrick, mentioning that he was a consultant toxicologist in New Zealand in 1991 but failing to disclose Fitzpatrick’s links with the Weston A. Price Foundation who promote the consumption of butter, eggs, whole milk and meat. (Google ‘Dr Mike Fitzpatrick Weston Price’ to reveal his involvement in the ‘Weston Price Nutrition Information Army’!) The Weston A. Price Foundation has launched an intensive campaign against soya in an effort to revive the popularity of animal foods. Kaayla Daniels (also quoted in Lawrence’s article as author of the Whole Soy Story) is a member of the board of directors of the Foundation).
I have read the government’s COT report to which Lawrence refers, it was designed primarily to assess the health risks of soya (particularly with regard to human infants), not to investigate the health claims as she suggests. The report concluded that the findings from a wide range of studies did not provide direct evidence that phytoestrogens can adversely affect the health of infants.
Lawrence neglected to mention that the Joint Health Claims Initiative (who offer a code of practice for the food industry, enforcers and consumers, to ensure that health claims on foods are both scientifically truthful and legally acceptable) approved the following health claim for soya: “the inclusion of at least 25 grams soya protein per day as part of a diet low in saturated fat can help reduce blood cholesterol”. http://www.jhci.org.uk/approv/schol2.htm
Contrary to Lawrence’s argument, much of the research shows that phytoestrogens can normalise levels of hormones. The VVF are far more concerned about animal hormones (oestrogens) in cow’s milk; these are much more powerful than plant hormones (phytoestrogens) and have been linked to cancers of the breast and ovaries and even teenage acne. Due to modern intensive farming practices, two-thirds of UK dairy cows are pregnant when milked, when hormone levels are markedly elevated, this should be far more of a concern.
Lawrence describes how soya farmers are devastating the Amazonian rain forests but just briefly mentions that most soya, (80%), of the world’s soya production is fed to animals that we can eat meat and consume dairy products. The rain forest would benefit tremendously if more people became vegetarians or vegans, even if they ate more soya.
http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/Multime...eport/7555.pdf
Lawrence refers to the use of ‘Nazi technology’ in soya oil production in her attempts to discredit this plant food; this is quite clever, but not particularly ethical, journalism. The Guardian surely has a responsibility to present a balanced argument? This type of journalism must not go unchallenged. I would like to submit a more detailed (fully-referenced) article explaining why soya is not the new bogeyman that Lawrence would have us believe.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Justine Butler - vostek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Take heed of this article! It speaks the truth! I became vegetarian at the age of 15, and quickly became accustomed to eating those fake meat products, every day. It messed me up really bad, and it took me years to realize it was that processed soy crap that was poisoning me! Don't buy into the hype! This 'food' is NOT good for you and there ARE alternatives!
- ASoggyWaffle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no whats bad ppl IMHO is hydrogenated/partial hydrogenated oils and corn syrup, they are in everything,
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