What is Digg?549 Comments
- tnoy, on 11/18/2008, -12/+118I'm pro not forcing my beliefs on anyone.
- inactive, on 12/08/2008, -4/+106If the author doesn't believe that abortion is right, but leaves it up to others to make that decision for themselves, they're just plain pro-choice. That's what pro-choice means. It's not pro-abortion, just pro-individual decision.
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -13/+103Yawn.
You can be pro whatever the ***** you want. Abortions are still going to happen.
If it's legal, they will be performed by professionals in a professional environment.
If it isn't, coat hangers.
You pick.
It's like prostitution. You can be against it all you want, make it illegal, whatever. It's still going to be there. By making it illegal you just help spread disease and create an entire social class of scum. - manzplan, on 11/18/2008, -20/+102to be being pro life means a person should resect ALL life - that of an unborn baby, a bum, a bug.. trouble is most "pro-lifers" are fully able to tell women what they should and should not do.. but few will step forward to help out when that woman gives up her cocaine addicted baby..
- delere, on 11/18/2008, -11/+59Indeed. Education is key. Repeated studies have shown it is the young woman often raised with a religious background who doesn't understand her own body (things like you can for sure get pregnant the first time you have sex) that end up unwed and pregnant. Not saying anything negative about a religious background, just saying parents seem to want anyone else, including their kids teenage friends, to teach their kid about sex. It's about time parents step up to the plate and add real knowledge and experience to the moral statement that it's just wrong to have sex before marriage.
- julielynn1009, on 11/18/2008, -4/+51I agree with you, but the far right often twists 'pro-choice' to mean pro-abortion, which I am not.
- julielynn1009, on 11/18/2008, -5/+35Up to a certain point an embryo has none of those things, that is why I call it a potential life. All of my eggs are potential life too...must I use every single one to create a human? Until a fetus is capable of living outside of a human body it is, for all intents and purposes, a parasite. Ticks have their own heart beat, blood and mind. Shall we preserve them all?
Yes, I am a proponent of 'pulling the plug' as you say, on individuals who are clinically dead and who have expressed a desire not to be left in that state. Actually, in those cases I think the doctors are the best ones to make that judgment call. If an individual does not express any prior wishes, the decision becomes more difficult and at some point we simply have to trust that caring family members will make a decision that best fits the individual and the situation. But these are different issues, aren't they? Abortion concerns a woman and her right to make decisions regarding her body - a woman who is not a vegetable and is capable of communicating her concerns, desires and thoughts. Individuals hooked up to life support systems do not have that advantage but I must wonder why we give more effort into caring for them than we do into the rights and concerns of healthy, conscious women. - ezekiel105, on 11/18/2008, -3/+33I hear you loud and clear. Personally, I doubt I could ever be for an abortion that was in my life, but at the same time, I think a woman should have the right to make up her own mind. Obviously, there should always be some point where you draw the line and say "this is a human" and "that is just a collection of cells." That's always a difficult question to answer and has yet to be answered by any court or law.
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -2/+30They'd pretty much have to be, wouldn't they? Filthy plant-murderers...
- reuscel, on 11/18/2008, -4/+31I love how most pro-lifers are also pro-death-penalty and pro-war, and I also love that none of these troglodytes sees the hypocrisy in that.
- quentinp, on 11/18/2008, -0/+26Sharing != Forcing
- BradOFarrell, on 11/18/2008, -5/+29Um, what? Pro-life means you want no abortions, pro-choice usually (unless you're insane) means you would like as few abortions as possible, but still allow the women to choose (but almost always with certain ranges and limitations). This guy is tripping over semantics. Everyone wants as few abortions/'deaths' as possible. There is no 'middle ground' between 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice', because they are two terms that describe mutually exclusive beliefs (no abortions / some abortions). He's just "pro-choice."
- WhiskeyLemur, on 06/30/2009, -3/+26Gotta love the false-analogy, slippery-slope arguments.
imightbewrong, you're not even comparing apples to oranges - you're comparing apples to railroad schedules. The morality of abortions lies not in whether "murder" is acceptable, but in when a clump of cells becomes "human," whatever that means to you. If you follow the religious right's argument to its ad absurdum conclusion, then every time a woman fails to conceive, she kills life in the form of her wasted egg; and every time a sperm fails to fertilize an egg - why, that's murder too, because some more DNA is wasted.
My opinion - and this is just an opinion - is that an embryo does not deserve to have the same rights as its mother until it is able to survive ON ITS OWN, without its mother's body. Until then it is a parasite, and (I'm sorry) the host has more rights than the parasite. Cold? Yup. But that's how I see it.
That being said, it is my belief that the human body is sovereign territory: it is, to me, the ultimate and the only worthwhile definition of the word "Freedom." Things like murder and theft infringe on the sovereign rights of other bodies; childbirth and abortion are events strictly within the sovereign territory. Telling a woman what she may or may not do is akin to the US telling Canada how to govern. For this very same reason (among others) I am against anti-drug laws: they infringe on personal sovereignty. I am very much FOR anti-drunk driving laws, because that it territory at which YOUR sovereignty (doing what you want) intersects MINE (personal safety), if that makes any sense to you. - Striker101, on 11/18/2008, -5/+27well done. but don't mind me, I stay out of this fray
- trogdor282, on 11/18/2008, -5/+26I like to say that pro-choice is not pro-abortion. I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice. Just because I wouldn't want to have an abortion doesn't mean I'm not content to MIND MY OWN ***** BUSINESS!!! Same with teh gays, just because I'm straight doesn't give me the right to tell gay people what to do.
- pjosemroy, on 11/18/2008, -3/+23Our passivity towards educating people about pro-life views are giving room for 'others' to exploit the situation, right through the civilizational stride. Though the author's focus was on pregnancy the essence of content was on pro-life responsibilities of civilized humans. If we can respect everyone's beliefs or faith, and could be patient enough to lend an ear to their views whether one accept it or not, it can create a dialogue environment. With such an environment pro-life movement has a chance to be successful.
- FeartheKnighted, on 11/18/2008, -4/+24And on the other hand, I can't tell you how many vegans I have met that are pro-choice.
- LacY, on 11/18/2008, -2/+21I was thinking exactly that while I was reading it. You may not *like* abortions, but if you respect the right of a person to choose to have one, then you're pro-choice. But kudos to the author for being able to say "hey, not everyone lives the way I live, and that doesn't make them wrong."
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -5/+22As a conservative pro-lifer and anti-abortionist, I fully agree with you. Adoption should be easier, and sometimes conservatives forget we should be willing to step out and help the mother who, having made one mistake, chooses not to make a bigger one.
- robinthehood, on 11/18/2008, -7/+23going by this definition no one is pro-life. if everyone was pro-life we wouldn't have people dying from war, poverty, hunger let alone abortion.
- Natitude, on 11/18/2008, -3/+18That's the crazy thing, if more people who were totally pro-life (as in no abortion of any kind, ever) would concentrate their efforts on educational programs, less people would have abortions. I don't understand how so many people choose to ignore this vital part. Do they really think making a law will make it all go away? Or is it just more of a peace of mind thing, they can feel better about themselves? If you really want to save lives, if you really want to protect the children, focus your efforts into education young women about their bodies and sex. The best way to stop this isn't to punish women for a mistake, it's to teach them how to NOT make the mistake in the first place.
- obliviousfool, on 11/18/2008, -8/+23How about pro-"quality of life?"
- UTKEngineer, on 11/18/2008, -3/+17Wow, the number of fallacies in this article is downright staggering.
- apackofmonkeys, on 11/18/2008, -3/+17@macweirdo42: It didn't ask to be conceived, but you and I didn't ask either, but I don't want to be killed, and I assume you don't either. Most people don't. But you have the gall to imply that because we can't know if it would choose to be killed or not, we SHOULD kill it if it's convenient to us?
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -8/+22That's a bad argument. It's analogous to saying "I'm against child rape, but it is not my place to force others to abide by my standard, or to put my beliefs on this issue into law".
We can argue whether abortion is harming someone (since the definition of "someone" seems to be the conflicting issue), but the "I don't force my beliefs onto others" POV is just unsistainable and unreasonable, and not a good argument. - joe7845, on 11/18/2008, -1/+15I'm what you'd call a liberal, and I'm not religious. You can check my profile. But I've developed misgivings about the pro-choice position. The last time I mentioned that, my comment was buried, as I suspect it will be this time.
You see, the value of an unborn life is not zero. So this has to be weighed against everything else, and you basically have to make a judgement call as to what is more important.
Consider that a newborn baby is not viable on his own and is completely dependent on his parents. Despite this, it's against the law to kill babies. Ask yourself why parents don't have the "choice" of infanticide in order to rid themselves of what they might see as a burden, financial or otherwise.
Is it because at that point they can give the baby up for adoption? That's a weak counter-point. It's the same with an unborn child. You just wait until the child is born and then give him up for adoption. No one is going to die in the interim.
How about situations where the life of the mother is in danger? I think this is a medical situation like countless others. If you can only save one of them, the doctors need to choose who to save. Typically it will be the one who has greater odds of survival. Of course, I do believe it's necessary to consider that the mother is already a fully developed human being, with a family who needs her, plans for the future and so forth.
Then there's abortion because of a genetic imperfection or defect was found. This is a scary slippery slope, in my view. We could get to a point where humans are selecting themselves rather than letting nature carry out, you know, *natural* selection, based on actual adaptation to the environment.
The cure for Down Syndrome is not death. That strikes me as completely wrong. When you abort a Down baby, you're not curing him or her. You're simply killing him or her. You don't know if they'd rather been alive, despite whatever difficulties they would encounter in life. Actually, the way to know might be to ask them. Let me quote Anya Souza: ""It's doctors like you who want to test pregnant women and stop people like me being born. You can't abort me now, can you? You can't kill me. Sorry!" http://www.mouthmag.org/issues/78/30_souza.html - bluehouse, on 11/18/2008, -3/+17I think a big problem comes from the misconception that some people think Pro-Choice = Pro-Abortion. I'm Pro-Choice meaning I'm for women being able to make their own choice about their bodies. If it came up in my life I would choose not to get an abortion. I think Damon Wayans said it best when he said (paraphrased) "I wouldn't want a bunch of crusty old white men making decisions on my balls"
- YojimboJango, on 11/18/2008, -1/+14Adoption is hard. My parents wanted to adopt and were told that they had a perfect environment for raising kids.
6 years and $70,000 in fees later they finally gave up.
It's easier to adopt from outside of the country than it is from our own. - TexasShiv, on 11/18/2008, -7/+20A collection of proto-neurons is NOT a mind.
A collection of cardio muscle is not a fully functioning heart, sorry. - darkism, on 11/18/2008, -3/+15It *is* astounding, isn't it?
That's why they're not "pro-life" by any stretch of the imagination. The proper term for them is "anti-choice," and their hypocrisy is appalling. - TexasShiv, on 11/18/2008, -8/+20The term "pro-life" is such *****. It's a propagandist term coined by the religious right. Since I support a woman right to choose/abortion, am I "pro-death"? Come on, when you abort something that is a non-viable organism, it is not killing.
"But God sent me this baby..." STFU, your horny boyfriend/husband sent you that little package. - inactive, on 11/18/2008, -10/+22Just remember: practically everyone is pro-life (not sociopaths perhaps). Life isn't the issue. The issue is whether women should have the choice of abortion available to them.
"Anti-Choice" is a much more accurate moniker for those who call themselves "pro-life." - avidlinuxuser, on 11/18/2008, -3/+15Some of those people are innocent. So your sending men and women to death that may have committed no crime. There is never any certainty with conviction.
- ZenMojo, on 11/18/2008, -3/+14Let's put it this way. The same people fighting abortion are fighting birth control and gay adoption and free healthcare for children.
In short, they don't give a damn about the life of an unborn child or a damn about a living child, they're riding the rails on some retarded virtue escapade that just ***** over their own children.
That's right. The highest teen pregnancy and abortion numbers are among white evangelical teens, the same people whose parents you would think would be the role models for proper sexual values. Now it's all about this paternalistic "Wow, these people can't even take care of their own, we need to fight them to make sure their own kids are taken care of" attitude on the liberal side.
So it's great to be pro-life and all. I'm a pro-life guy and I'm pro-choice. I can't see myself idly standing by and condoning the abortion of my own prospective child passively (even though the 14th amendment denies me the right to make the final decision). However, while I respect a woman's right to abort a non-sentient but human life while still in the womb, I do so only because this country provides no reasonable alternatives or support. Furthermore, I am anti-war and anti-death penalty under all circumstances. Why is it all of the pro-life people are so pro-death on other issues? - Icyfenix, on 11/18/2008, -1/+12I don't think it's a life until it quits bitching, gets a job and moves out of my basement.
100th trimester abortions. - inactive, on 11/18/2008, -11/+22Shut up, stupid.
- AsusMobo, on 11/18/2008, -7/+17If you pro-life, there is probably a lot of groups you can involved with to help stop unwanted teenage pregnancy. Of course, you won't do that because your too busy hating gays or whatever other group of politically unpopular people.
- tullj01, on 11/18/2008, -1/+11I think that the centrist view is fundamentally unsatisfying. Personally, while a Christian, I am adamantly pro-life, anti capital punishment, and anti-war. I don't think it's the sort of position one should compromise on. I think the world would be a much better place if people would choose to value the life and safety of others above themselves, but that's largely idealistic and not even something I'm capable of frequently.
Given all that, I do not think that abortion should be made illegal, and fully agree we should work on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and make adoption an easier option. Simply reducing poverty among the most likely demographics to have an abortion would be a huge step in the right direction, and it has the added benefit of making everyone's lives better. I wish people would really stop disagreeing with and attacking each other ideologically and start working together in these areas in which they can agree. - diggerpleez, on 11/18/2008, -4/+14My views changed dramatically after I saw the development of my first son... I went from "it's a bunch of cells" to "holy *****, that's that's a heart beat!"
I don't preach either side, but I think a lot of people have their views altered after being a part of the process themselves. I think is much easier for someone who hasn't experienced it first hand to be pro-abortion. - swass, on 11/18/2008, -6/+15I don't see the big deal. Liberals want abortion to be an option in the first two trimesters. Conservatives want it to be available to a judge and jury anytime after the 87th trimester.
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -1/+10Abortions for everyone!
- as566, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9Contraception is also a vital part of education/prevention. In my high school, there was a little room on the first floor, almost a closet, where students could come in and receive free condoms. They acknowledged that kids're going to experiment, have sex, and are not always going to be able to be safe. I think it was a brilliant idea. Combined with 4 years of Health Education classes that taught about sex and its consequences, I think a lot of premature pregnancies and unfortunate situations were prevented.
- Ragzouken, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
- mrswirl, on 11/18/2008, -2/+11@bayoureader - to be coldly clinical; yes, an embryo is parasitic. It can only survive by living off of a host - in this case, a mother's womb.
I see that your tactic is to inject passion and humanity into a medical condition in order to "humanize" the unborn embryo as this allows you to feel morally superior to everyone else and to justify your self-righteous outrage against abortion - until you denigrate yourself by using the term "pro-death ilk".
People like you are exactly the reason why it's impossible to have a rational and reasonable discussion on this topic. I see that reading comprehension is not a strength of yours so please STFU. - DOCNM, on 11/18/2008, -8/+17Is a paradox because you are trying to answer the wrong question. The real question is "are you pro-coathanger or pro-medical?"
- as566, on 11/18/2008, -2/+11Yep, up to a point, the developing egg in the female body is considered, by the body, a parasite. I've read about cases where the mother's (host) body recognizes the developing egg (parasite) for what it is at first, an organism that lives off of the mother's body, a parasite.
- tdclark23, on 11/18/2008, -0/+9Commenting is a right we all enjoy. Forcing is a wrong we all despise. They are not the same thing.
- inactive, on 11/18/2008, -1/+9"nobody told them they could not do things in private (and getting married is NOT a private act)"
Wow, got them on a pretty short leash, don't you, bigot? What gays do, including marry, is none of your business. - kinerry, on 11/18/2008, -4/+12wrong, I'm pro-choice, but anti-abortion
education fixes this problem, not laws
you need to educate yourself on this stuff - rootsm3, on 11/18/2008, -2/+10I feel like nobody really is sure about any of this. Even if you think you are.
People against abortions usually say it's murder. Well if that's how they feel I would hope they'd take it damn seriously. If you thought innocent lives were being taken away, you would go insane yourself.
People who are okay with abortion I know for a fact don't feel 100% comfortable with it. how could you be?
All this being said, unless you have gone through the situation, you have absolutely no idea the pain and suffering these women have to go through. I do know. -
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