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56 Comments
- jsd8cc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+39Not "better" than blood...more like an augmentation.
FTA: "After two decades and a billion dollars’ worth of research, the most valuable lesson learned was that real blood and these artificial bloods were apples and oranges: The life-giving liquid in our veins acts like a supply line for everything from nutrients to hormones to oxygen, even working double-time to regulate our blood pressure and fight infection. The manufactured substances, on the other hand, are one-trick ponies for oxygen delivery. But it’s a trick they perform remarkably well..." - awm4, on 10/12/2007, -9/+42You are not funny
- flamingmb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22it will be banned in sports for sure. Think of how much it would boost your running potential and cycling potential.
- trogdor282, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Amen, that's a common misconception about evolution. You don't have to be the perfect gazelle, you just gotta outrun the lion.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20"Accidental death," eh? I knew my grandpa got cancer on purpose. That scheming bastard was always after attention.
- chrisdelta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Looks like the stuff from the android in "Aliens"...
- Raian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14@hammydude
Evolution does not always produce "The Best"-- Evolution is survival of the most fit... So blood has developed through survival of our ancestors, and in turn is what is best for survival, and what is most efficient for the variety of circumstances we find ourselves in on this planet.
Of course our bodies could have just as easily developed blood like this Oxycyte-- but we wouldn't have survived to tell anyone about it as it's production is probably not very efficient. - TrevorBradley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13@trogdor282:
You don't even need to outrun the lion. You just need to outrun the slowest gazelle.
Recent evolutionary biological theory is now saying that sexual selection amongst mates is a greater evolutionary driving force than natural selection.
Take a look at The Red Queen Theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_queen - captinherb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12FTA "when doctors actually tried using milk to replenish blood loss."
"Nurse he's losing to much blood, quick what's in the ice box" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Perhaps, but it'd be pretty useless in sports anyway. If you read the article, you'd know that in normal atmospheric air the oxygen content is too low to make use of the high oxygen-carrying capacity of oxcyte... you need to breathe 100% oxygen for a few hours before you get treated and after youve been injected with the stuff.
Professional sports will likely just continue to use hemoglobin-based stuff (which theyve used for at least a decade now). - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Vulcan blood is green!
- PharmaPhool, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Not to go too far off topic, but one of the biggest concerns with blood substitutes/augmenters is WHAT HAPPENS LATER. The stuff has to be scrubbed, eventually, out of the blood stream by the liver or kidneys, or possibly passed via the intestines, but in just about every other blood substitute the residency time has been problematic... the longer the stuff is in there, the more issues arise....
- matman730, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I think the biggest problem with people's perception of evolution is the phrase "survival of the fittest". A more accurate description would be "survival of the good enough". If you manage not to die before you have babies (who, if they survive, are capable of having their own babies), then you've won the evolution game, even if you're an ugly, disease carrying, pea-brained cannibalistic degenerate.
- Lane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5is this vulcan blood? yet another cover up!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Premonition: This will be abused in sports in the future.
- nreynolds, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"it only delivers oxygen"
right. because there are no banned substances that increase the transport of oxygen.
*cough* EPO *cough*
http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/epo.html - Jolls, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5granted, you might be able to have a mix of real blood as well as Ocycyte to boost oxygen while not necessarily reducing the normal blood flow as the Oxycyte is much smaller than red blood cells. Didn't consider that....
- 4NDr01D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3sports ?
lets consider;
all the great musicians that enhanced your lives over the years
- really ***** high on drugs
we place on a pedestal any shaman that expands their abilities and therefore enlightens human existence and progresses us to a higher plane
why then do we vilify any "sports" figure for enhancing their body to push it to the furthest limits of physical prowess
why the hypocrisy
don't say because the history of stats would change;
baseballs did not have rubber cores in the 1800's, nor did the players have personal trainers, sports doctors, and strength exercises to the extent we have today. The scores are already skewed. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"nreynolds, EPO just makes your body generate more RBCs, so your blood is 'thicker'. It doesn't work instantly, it doesn't work all that dramatically, and the new RBCs still can't penetrate the small vessels which the artificial blood can."
However, EPO still increases your overall athletic ability because your ability to oxygenate your muscles is improved. It just increases the chance you'll die of a stroke or heart attack due to your blood being too thick it sludges up the small vessels in your head and causes an aneurysm to form.
This stuff will be banned just the same, and more over will probably be useless on the circuit, due to it being easier to test for (it's very un-natural to the human system, odd proteins circulating in people's blood isn't all that hard to find). However, on races that aren't tested, and things like high school basketball and football, we should be worried. Who knows what all kinds of long term use problems this stuff will be found to have... - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@"Our current blood is a result of billions of years of evolution, I highly doubt a better blood can be developed in a few decades."
Hrm... Evolution never put a man on the moon, made a nuclear bomb, or an Xbox 360. - RudeAtTheMorgue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I bet having this in your veins, versus blood, would reduce those nasty vampire attacks though.
- Lean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Kakwakas: "Metal Gear Solid and Raiden, anyone?"
haha thats the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. - AnotherBrian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It would be awesome if you could take a hit of this before going free diving.
- AR15, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Recently I heard a physician, who is an expert in transfusion, comment about how this product is not doing as well as they planned and likely will not pass phase 2 IIRC.
- Benzido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yeah this is android blood, like in 'alien'.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Jolls, read up on aerobic respiration vs. anaerobic resperation. Atheletes have been trying to find ways to increase their bloods ability to carry oxygen for a loooong time.
- Benzido, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2nreynolds, EPO just makes your body generate more RBCs, so your blood is 'thicker'. It doesn't work instantly, it doesn't work all that dramatically, and the new RBCs still can't penetrate the small vessels which the artificial blood can.
- Tenlow, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Not all of us crackers are racist.
- DukeVonMan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@stvspl amazing how far technology has come... now all they need is a way to cure AIDS and cancer.
- madchemst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, I guess the reason we vilify it is because not everyone can afford the best performance enhancing drugs. I guess if everything were regulated, cost-effective and the side effects were known, it wouldn't be such a big deal since the entire common denominator is raised. What I take issue with is when someone has Nike sponsoring them and the other dude has to make it on his own dime but has to pay for all these performance enhancing drugs.
Training as hard as an Olympic athlete is going to reduce your life expectancy regardless of whether you use steroids, human growth hormone, or any other performance enhancer. I'd just prefer if the playing field was reasonably level and everyone had access to all this crap. - madchemst, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yes, you are. 9th grade physics. :)
- SundayTrain, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Hopefully this corrected problems with Fluosol and PFC prep.
- MrSir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ahh, the popsci article.
ok well if oxocyte carries oxygen too well, it won't oxygenate your body. It does hold more Oxygen, but how about the strength with which it holds it. If it holds O2 more tightly than myoglobin then it dosent matter, however i believe that someone has already thought of that...or they wouldnt be bothering to develop this stuff. i wish Popsci would explain stuff like this. They claim to be a science mag after all. although is seems as if they are becoming the "hey look, a new robot that curls your hair and changes the oil in your car at the same time, but it won't be developed for another 10 years" type magazine. sorry. back to the oxocyte thing. As an example. in the beginning of blood transfusions, blood was given without a chemical called BPG, and people essentially suffocated and died when they had enough blood to live. the BPG makes hemoglobin hold O2 looser (im searching for a better term in my brain and can't find one). you have to see graphs to really understand, but basically Hemoglobin still holds O2 when it gets to the lungs, but when it gets to the tissues it can give up O2 easier. see graph halfway down the page here: http://courses.cm.utexas.edu/archive/Fall2001/CH339K/Hackert/Mb_Hb/Mb_Hb.htm see, more BPG, more O2 to tissue. (thats how people acclaimate to high altitudes, whats really cool is that incas and sherpas have higher hematocrits because of 1000's of years of living at high altitudes.) also about EPO, it does help with getting more O2 circulating, but not on an emergency basis, and it is undetectable now in athletes because it is synthesied using uh...i dont know. human cells, or something. not rat cells like a while ago, where they could detect different sugars on the molecule because of the rat cell vs human cell thing. uh ok sorry its so long. i just find this stuff really interesting. - almalax19, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm sure they thought about it. Its basic biochem man...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Personal problems aside, I'd like to note that this seems to be a very good blood alternative.
Reminds me of PolyHeme: http://www.northfieldlabs.com/
We'll see how this war of blood alternative shakes out... - avolant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0dear android who is 1337,
that might be the weirdest thing ive ever seen written down. - kakwakas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Metal Gear Solid and Raiden, anyone?
- dominasian, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3my value has just gone down
- afeitarse, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Bah, this stuff isn't half as good as the midichlorians I have.
- urashima, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think most of you are overlooking one major point. Putting aside the whole Theory of Evolution, I think that we need to look at the fact that we need blood donors. If, however if we do not have those than an artificial blood is in fact needed. It is not a matter of weather it is better than out own blood or not, I don't think doctors are trying to replace blood, but to help with victims of accidents. I know that if you commented on the article than you all must have read it, but this drug Oxycyte does in fact carry oxygen 50xs better than our own natural blood. This cuts the brain damage effect in half. I think we need to get over the title of the article and talk about the drug itself.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Cant Wait
- Smarty2u, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0First of all - this smacked me in the brain! Wow!
By all the comments - I think this is full of possibilties - though many of the ones posted here are a little ahead of ourselves - and some just silly, obviously. But I think we should give this a big round of applause - the possibilites are staggering, as are the implications. Helping heal tissues in a way no other treatment has - delivering oxygen to dying brain tissue - and think of all the moral and legal problem this could potentially solve that result from Doctors who feel blood is the only treatment and patients who refuse it for religious or moral reasons. Instead of changing the patient's views - or over riding them as if they don't count - they have found a way to do what many wanted all along - find a different treatment.
Again - bravo! - brainspinalcord, on 07/03/2008, -0/+0The whole miracle about this substitute is that it can reach damaged parts of the brain that "real" blood can't.
there is a discussion on this at:
http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/blog/2008/03/art ... - bryrb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i can't help but wonder what kinds of animal tests they're doing for this. I mean, how do you give test subjects "severe head trauma"? the thought makes me feel really sick..
- Figs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Am I the only one who sees this? Oxygenate the substitute before you give it to the patient!
Why the heck should they have to sit there for four hours while it absorbs pure oxygen?
If you can carbonate a soda, I'm pretty sure you can store dissolved oxygen. Am I missing something here? - etman7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You don't produce trauma. Instead, the animal is bled a known amount of blood to cause "trauma like" physiological response (i.e. increased heart rate and decrease blood pressure). Upon reaching that point, a test solution is infused.
Like many PFC this is one will have the exact problems, half-life will be too long and the product will be found in all types of tissues. One additional issue that the article didn't describe is how do they make an injectable solution of this product. PFCs are non-water soluble, hence, all PFC are emulsified. As emulsion are not stable for extended periods of time, they are made almost immediately prior to application, which is very cumbersome and can only be done in a hospital-like environment. - bryrb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0oh. didn't know that. still gross, but better than smashing heads in.
- cougar618, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1Maybe we can give the Iraqi's this for oil?
Just a little bit of Red #40 and they won't even know... - dick-richardson, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2Recently I heard from the guy who invented it, a real pecker, comment about how he wasn't doing as well with his new boyfriend and probably won't make it to 2nd base IIRC.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+9Our current blood is a result of billions of years of evolution, I highly doubt a better blood can be developed in a few decades. They can, however, make a highly specialized blood that does only one or 2 things (oxygen transport) that is better than regular blood, but that is all it is better at.
Oh and firefox's spell checker rocks by the way
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