What is Digg?82 Comments
- strikezero, on 10/11/2007, -3/+319I swear I've read this article before.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -5/+182Get laid?
- glasgowm, on 10/11/2007, -9/+175The cause of Deja Vu has been known for years.
It's a change in the matrix. - nyx210, on 10/11/2007, -3/+60I'm still waiting for that flying car...
- noisician, on 10/11/2007, -0/+45@cdawzrd - sorry to hear that
- m1th, on 10/11/2007, -6/+47Is there anything MIT can't do?
- cawpin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+38@cdawzrd - What's his name?
- tamurlane6, on 10/11/2007, -1/+35this is fine and dandy if you have this feeling about something that regularly happens in your life but my deja vu experiences are usually situations that are so utterly once in a lifetime that it doesn't work for me. I usually don't have a "deja vu experience" about places. It mostly happens during interaction with other people. Maybe I"m the exception to the rule.
- McTendo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+25I agree. Most of my experiences are either with conversations where I'm at the point where I can sometimes finish the person's sentence or an experience I have done before. SO it's not "Hey, I could of sworn I've been here before", but "Hey, I could of sworn I was doing this exact activity with these people at this location before."
- EmileVictor, on 10/11/2007, -4/+25They did get one on a roof once. I don't see how else we could explain that...
- cozmikforz, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18Still no cure for Cancer...
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Your first case makes perfect sense. There's a feedback loop in your brain between the process that is constantly creating memories and the process that is checking to see if things are new or old. If it's old the memory gets reinforced. If it's new it gets recorded (most of the time). When there's an electrochemical break in this loop, it's like a short circuit, and the part of your brain that says "hey, I remember this" feeds the signal straight from the new memory creation process. So in essence, you temporarily remember something that you couldn't possibly remember, so you get the feeling you've seen it/done it before.
The whole thing about you knowing where stuff was doesn't make any sense at all. It seems your mind was tricking you.
At least, that's my understanding of it and it makes perfect sense to me. There's really nothing supernatural or paranormal about it, it's just a hiccup in your brain. It used to happen to me alot when I was younger and these days it's very rare. - JimmyDushku, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11That's because you deja vu is when you see something and your brain tells you that you've seen it before. Until you see your keys again, you're s.o.l.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I think there are three things going on here;
1) is what Popfrogs is talking about; you are "checking" as you store a memory. So, the "feeling" of remembering it before is a confusion from remembering it now. I would think this is equivalent to a "hypersensitivity" in the brain - probably more organic, because the brain has the mechanism to remember things, ofthen when they have strong emotional signifigance. I would suspect, that sometimes a limit is reached in neurotransmitters, and you just all of a sudden have a significant feeling. I haven't given much thought to this ... but from all the times I've had it, it's after a period of time when I haven't had a significant event to remember.
2) Sometimes we fall into patterns. So polite conversations and introductions could almost be scripted. So, you cognitive functions experience boredom when something should have emotional content. This is my best guess based upon what I've read about techniques to remember; the more sense involved, the more connections to the event, and thus the more likely ability of recall, and emotion stimulates the hypothalimus that sends out a neurotransmitter that essentially says; "significant event." It doesn't broadcast exactly what is significant -- that's why you might remember the way the "flowers smelled at the funeral" -- it's all association. There is also a signal spike (like a neurological pulse), exactly (and I don't remember if it is 5 or 15 seconds) transmitted by the hypothalimus that intiates turning a short-term memory into a long-term memory. Very similiar to studies done that show there is a rather specific time to "comedy" where what we expect is replaced by a similiar but unexpected. That's why "dumb" jokes are obvious, and we talk about "comedic timing." There was actually a study done that proved there is a 5 to 15 second window for a joke to "work."
3) Perhaps precognition is going on. Humans have some ability to emotionally respond to future events. I'm pretty much along the lines of; "I need observable and repeatable proof to believe things." But the few times in my life where I've experienced this, I told someone else about a strange dream that seemed like an image pushed into my head. I could remember every detail of the scene, down to the dates on the coins in my hand. It was the most banal situation I could think of and had no significance at all. But I went to a house I'd never been before or since, and someone asked if I had enough money, and I pull out the change -- and wow, there was the exact image I already had in my brain -- I could have painted it. There were very distinct things and it went beyond chance. I'd even told my mother about it in detail a week before it happened.
There are other precognition events that might be explained by more pragmatic "senses." I surmise that a lot of what is thought of as ESP is really information we don't understand coming from the immune system. It's been long known that trees can get pheremones from other trees being attacked by bugs, and they respond by producing more sap. With Billions of years of evolution, we may also respond to the well-being and emotional state of people close to us, but we've lost any conscious recognition (or never gained it) of pheremone and immunological-based information we receive.
We KNOW a call about a friend in an accident is about to occur just before we get it. But we might not be aware of, is all the data that our body receives about things in the environment it needs to adapt to. Our brain may be interpreting unconscious information from our immune system in creative ways that may appear as "feelings."
Although, I've never seen any studies on this angle of ESP before. But I'm pretty sure that it will be discovered before too long.
Now there are also things like low frequency noise, that animals respond to, before an earthquake. And before the Katrina disaster, I was reading strange reports around Louisiana of fish and water animals, leaving the area -- even huge groups of snakes. They weren't attacking eachother, and people were noting that you couldn't step in the water and not hit a fish. If you can think about how often a disaster has wiped out whole species of animals -- there is strong evolutionary reason for deveoloping some ability to respond ahead of time to weather and earth events. The fact that we don't know what animals are sensing to know that there will be a bad flood (think of the run-off and red tides, it really would have killed most of those animals), doesn't mean that there isn't a logical mechanism for such prediction.
So deja vu may be a "hiccup" of precognition. You aren't avoiding a disaster, but your mind interpreted some future event with a sense you are not aware of. Though it seems like junk science, these people at http://www.halfpasthuman.com/ have been doing special searches of the internet, to watch changes in language. The assumption is that, the emotional impact of the future, changes the way people unconsciously react. The bigger the event -- the more lead time. Some of it sounds like astrology -- meaning that; "thousands stand neck deep in electric water" could be used to point to almost any disaster. But others have been very specific, like when they predicted to the day, when a new island would form in the Pacific ocean -- a volcanic event never before witnessed. At the very least, it keeps things interesting. There is always an advantage to anyone who has information ahead of the pack. - zofo, on 10/11/2007, -7/+13Sorry, not buying it. While it may explain most cases, I personally remember when in the past I saw/heard/felt what I'm having a Deja Vu of when I see it. There are a couple of times where the deja Vu is more than just a feeling, its something that plays out in front of me for even a few seconds. I remember as a kid where I knew exactly what my friends were going to say their parents during a car ride, and I had the time to get over the weird DV feeling and say something "different" from what (I felt/remembered) was going to be said.
Another time, I was about 7-8 years old (more than 20 years ago) and hiking for the first time in my life in the alps with my mom. We got to a big communal lodge/chalet and I announced that I was going to the bathroom and to the general store that had some local candy. My mom looked at me incredulously and asked how the hell I knew where the bathroom was and the store (which were nowhere indicated or in sight) and I simply said "mom, we've been here already!" and proceeded to the bathroom and, alas, the general store with the local candy.
I have too many instances to bring up here, but unless I'm really delusional, I have to abide by the idea that its just.. weird.. - bqdla, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Kind of interesting, except they are not talking about deja vu. Deja vu is much more than just the space, it has to do with the actions, the feelings, the conversations, etc.... What they are "discovering" has nothing to do with this particular phenomenon.
- GunnerMcGrath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Agreed, what they describe doesn't sound like the deja vu i have. Just yesterday I had about 5 seconds where i "remembered" an exact few seconds of playing a brand new video game, down to not only what i was doing but what people were saying on xbox live and me actually saying "wow i'm having deja vu".. I know it never happened before but it felt like it had happened weeks earlier in my memory, even though i've only owned the game for a couple of days.
I got all excited when i read the headline.. but forget it.. keep working MIT, i'd really like to know why i can remember the present. - VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Oops.
Looks like that "edit" time limit doesn't really work. Saw some typos and went back and corrected my post -- it sends it anyway.
Of course, it's completely appropriate to do a repeat post on this topic. ;-) - Amadeus2490, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Well how about precognitive dreams, dreaming about an exact vivid situation and then having it happen anywhere from 1 day to 3 months later exactly the way you dreamt it? The only reason you feel weird when you notice it happening is because "hey, this is exactly like that dream I had. . ."
Just wondering. - authenion, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I find this research fascinating, yet to generalize this to explain deja vu seems to me like a materialist explaination of consciousness.
- libertao, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Where's my hoverboard?
- whatsgoodike, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I call BS on this one..
I've read somewhere else a long time ago that Déjà Vu is your mind incorrectly perceiving when your seeing something. Short term / long term memory
Think of it this way: TRY to remember what you ate for lunch today, and try to remember what you ate for lunch yesterday. If you have a routine, how do you know which lunch was yesterday? Because every memory has a 'place' in your mind. Déjà Vu is when your mind might put what your seeing right now in yesterdays 'spot' (long term memory etc..
That explains some of these other comments like liminaldust's:
"I usually have deja vu's that last 2-10 seconds... and most of the time I'm also remembering what people have said, and how my surroundings changed (for example, typing a whole line of text)"
You're seeing it for the first time, your mind is just placing it in a long term memory spot. - liminaldust, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3however, I rarely have a deja vu with just a setting.
I usually have deja vu's that last 2-10 seconds... and most of the time I'm also remembering what people have said, and how my surroundings changed (for example, typing a whole line of text)
in fact, the article really doesn't detail this 'code of deja vu' at all; it has barely enough info to make a hypothesis (amplified details).
bury button should have a "too sensationalist" option... - jurriaan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Why is consciousness less beautiful and mysterious if you accept that it is produced by the brain?
- mcmlxxii, on 10/11/2007, -6/+8Another nail in the coffin for the hocus-pocus merchants
- kgninpo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yes. Agreed. This article was really anti-climactic because it didn't address deja vu completely, just the feeling that "I've been here before." I wonder how they'd explain how, when I was much younger, I often told my mom about dreams I'd had (usually about conversations or activities) and then reported back to her when those dreams came true later on? It happened quite often back then. As I've gotten older, it's not as prevalent, but it still happens. Just yesterday, in fact, I was speaking with my company's new receptionist, with whom I have had no prior acquaintance, and suddenly, I was aware that I'd experienced this conversation with this person before. Explain that M.I.T.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Sorry, I meant hippocampus -- not hypothalamus, which makes our body respond to conditions and health with things like raising and lowering our temperature.
- moxley, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2As everyone has already stated, deja vu is not just something looking similar, it;s a felling which can feel almost mystical.
The article is an obvious government cover up, because as Denzel taught us all last summer Deja Vu is a side effect of government black projects.......
I knew it, because when I saw the film, I had the feeling I had seem a crappy film like thie before.
as Yogi Berra once said, "It's deja vu all over again." - diggtomanjeri, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I always felt Deja Vu was just a short-term/long-term memory screw up. The event that just happened is accidentally put into long-term memory, the brain realizes this and immediately pulls it out to place it in short-term memory. The act of taking it out of long-term memory makes one believe it's happened before.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I didn't know deja vu was french for 'seen already'. Heh, you learn something new everyday.
- oMeSSiaHo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I've found the majority of my deja vu is caused by stress. Of course when I'm trying to fix a problem and I have that dumb feeling it just compounds the issue! =/
- gebx, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5Deja Vu is your brains (left and right) out of sync. You register something in your right brain or left brain faster then the other side. Your right eye registers information and memories into your brain, then your left eye registers the same info nanoseconds after your right eye. This leads to that feeling that you've experienced what your seeing in the past, and it's true kinda... just nanoseconds ago.
- webcure, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't buy it...
- axox, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Now make a pill that let's me experience Deja Vu whenever i want to...
- PeakAction, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@tamurlane6
You aren't an exception. Déjá-vú almost always hits me in one-off situations, and sometimes it is so clear, I have at times been able to predict the near future. For instance, I often know what specific actions people in the scene will take in the coming moments. To date, my longest prediction time has actually been about fifteen or twenty seconds. That's rare, but it has happened more than a few times.
I think it's pretty special, but maybe that happens to everyone who experiences it. - Arcadian, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I'll also throw my anecdotal hat into the ring. I've also experienced highly detailed events before they occur, and related them to others, usually right before it happens (for real?)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one this happens to. - mahdaeng, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I don't quite accept what the article says either. It may explain some cases, but not all. I have been in completely new and unique situations and have experienced the deja vu feeling. Whether or not it has a paranormal explanation is for others more knowledgeable in such things to argue.
I, on the other hand, have come to the conclusion that the sensation is simply that: a sensation. Under normal circumstances, it is experienced when one actually does remember something that happened before. In the case of deja vu, however, it is simply a trick played by the brain - a "hiccup", as some here have called it - that is just out of place. We really aren't "remembering" the event, our brain just makes us feel like we're remembering it.
Cool stuff, regardless. - mahdaeng, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Actually an interesting concept, but I'd like to see some experiments done to bear it out.
- moxley, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Short list?
That's funny, because from your comment, I would've guessed that it's a ***** book the size of a dictionary.
(sorry, you set yourself up for that one - it's friday, what can I say). - VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1This form of Deja Vu is only one type; Similarity.
I think they've yet to address those associated with "feeling" like you remembered this. I've had Deja Vu a few times on unique events... so I'm guessing it is a confusion with storing and retrieving memories.
Most often, we can distinguish between real events we remember, and dreams we remember. This is more of the "identification confusion" which is probably more common -- but doesn't "feel" the same. When I have Deja Vu -- I sometimes know I haven't had this happen before, but it sure feels like it. It is a very creepy feeling. When I pass by a McDonalds, next to Gas station -- THAT is the Deja Vu they are talking about, because every intersection in America has a fricken' telephone pole, next to a road sign, and a McDonalds and a Gas Station. I don't get the same creepy feeling when I'm confused about a similar location -- I just get annoyed.
Anyway, it's interesting. But I think there are a few mechanisms working here -- and they've found one part of it. Not the complete story. - bar10dr, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1But the truth is even stranger than that, as it was later showed that deja-vu's were actually just nothing more than something that happened more than one time in your life...
- mablco, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1it always comes down to mice doesnt it
- McTendo, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3Poor Sardo..
No Mr., accent on the 'do. - Blue_Eon, on 10/11/2007, -5/+5I used to always think deja vu was you "reliving" dreams you had, but could not remember when you woke up.
- migpwr, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Good read but this is horrible:
"Different sets of mice were placed in two similar chambers, one of which gave them a mild foot shock. After three days, the mice began to freeze in fear in both chambers, even the one in which they had never been harmed." - haggie, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11.) the same type of mapping could occur with other types of situations, not just places. you could be having a conversation very similar to a previous conversation and your brain recognizes the similarity and flags it "been there, discussed that" and you get the deja vu feeling.
2.) and i think it could also work in reverse with dreams. your brain in processing a new place, conversation, etc... and maps it against some scrap of a dream that you happen to remember and mistakenly flags it as "been there, dreamed that" and consciously feel that you dreamed the exact same thing, but it was just a random dream that coincidentally mapped somewhat like a real event that happened later.
with the amount of subconscious data processing our brain does every day (and night) this kind "memory generalization error" (my term, don't even try to use it without proper acknowledgment) could happen quite frequently. - MavenMatt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0What people forget is that your only method of verification occurs after the experience. I can imagine I'm going to hear and see everything for the next 4 days, but until I have that confirmed, it's meaningless. Once it has been confirmed it's already too late, because then I really have no way of knowing wether that memory was a real one or not, unless I wrote it down some place. This invariably would never happen, because the perceived amount of advance knowledge would not amount to days but nanoseconds, which is still conveniently enough to trick me into thinking I knew something i didn't, but not enough time for me to act upon any of it usefully.
But hey, I'm just blown away that someone found a bathroom in a communal chalet. Even more so the grocery store. So many stores have gone out of business because customers just couldn't find them. - ubuwalker31, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1What usually happens to me:
1) Having a conversation with a friend, in a cafe.
2) Think to myself, woah, I think I've had this conversation, with this friend, in this cafe.
3) Think to myself, woah...I remember being here before!
4) Deja Vu!
5) Then I say outloud, "I think this has happened before" - My friend goes, "u know, we have had a similar convo before, in this cafe"
6) Think to myself "Creepy!" - Calcheesmo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I don't know anyone that has Deja Vu's like that. My deja vu's are usually anywhere aroudn 5-10 seconds and they include people talking, facial expressions, settings, etc. How do you explain someone saying the same exact thing and doing the exact same thing that you dreamed about them saying a few weeks earlier.
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