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192 Comments
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+50During the growing season buy local. There are farmer's markets all over the place. You get better food and are supporting your local economy.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -3/+33You have nothing to fear of wax. Paraffin is entirely non toxic, and is actually a food ingredient.
Think Gummy Bears.
Now the pesticides and fertilizers, that's why you buy organic. Don't spread misconceptions and fear of WAX though. - 1KrazyKorean, on 10/10/2007, -26/+48Organic is not worth it....Just wash your damn cucumber
- Neuticals, on 10/10/2007, -5/+23Most Americans have been eating pesticides and other crap that's in cheap food for so long that they don't even recognize what it does to their bodies. Much of what ills society gets it's foothold in the garbage we cram down our throats, as much of it is filled with small amounts of poison. Eating all organic isn't the only answer, as you can find many foods and food products that are free of additives, chemicals and other crap for the same price or a small amount more than highly-processed, chemically-treated edibles.
It's easy for me to say because I got a job at a natural foods co-op a few years ago and had the opportunity to change the way I ate without really trying. I feel so much better, think so much clearer and remember very acutely when I ate whatever I could get for the cheapest price I could find. I didn't realize how bad I felt...I thought it was just how life was at the time.
But with putting a little bit more of your time into reading labels and monthly budget into buying quality food you can do right by your body and improve much of what you think and do.
But what do I know? I bet I sound like some granola-eating hippie and am easy to dismiss... - chumpsucker, on 10/10/2007, -3/+20Organic foods are coated with waxes too! The difference is... it is *organic* wax.
- Bukowsky, on 10/10/2007, -6/+23i personally prefer organic, but right now the price is higher... however, over time, the more people buy it, the lower the price will fall.
- whymanwhy, on 10/10/2007, -8/+22You need a American Express black card to go shopping at Whole Foods. I know that.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16We need to start paying for Organic. Consider it investing in farms that aren't reliant on natural gas based fertilizers.
Crop rotation and organic fertilizer worked for hundreds of years. Now, the soil is so stripped of nutrients that it's basically just a sponge for the fertilizers, forcing farmers to continue to fertilize the earth just to make it arable.
Also, given the fact that we're going to hit critical supply issues with Natural Gas in North America by 2010, and you can see that it should be a priority to develop organic farmland that isn't dependent on chemical fertilizer. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15The question should be: Why is there anything besides organic? What the ***** is in the other *****?
- timbellomo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Actually the designation "organic" holds a lot of regulation by the USDA/FDA - it's against the law to lie about it... it's stuff like "free-range eggs" that have little to no regulation - there's no real definition for stuff like that.
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -4/+15One for the "things that sound dirty but aren't" list.
- Boshow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Another option would be to grow your own.
- jollyholly, on 10/10/2007, -10/+19Ever buy a cucumber at your local grocery store? They're covered in wax - so they last longer on store shelves. If you want the nutritious skin without all the wax and chemicals, the only option is to buy organic..
- brokenspatula, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Ever heard of USDA Organic?
- dasbebe, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Yes! The food is so much better and reasonably priced.
- dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11If organic were subsidized 1/4 as much as Big Agriculture, it'd be just as reasonably priced. I'm not saying I want more taxes to help the organic farmers, but I'd very much like to see the subsidies go away that unfairly favor mass-production farming. Doing that would certainly help make organics more competitively priced.
- Jwoey, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10I'll mark that down in the record. This way if someone asks, we'll be prepared.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Think global, buy local. There's no reason you should truck produce 1500 miles+ just so you can get a strawberry in December.
- fasda, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8I know all the food I get is always made of mostly carbon containing compounds
- Error601, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9You said wax. What are the "chemicals"?
- Chode2235, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7I do whatever I can to keep my money from going to the Cargills and ADMs of the world. I support local farms, and sustainable agriculture. To me, better tasting healthier food is a side effect, but a welcomed one at that.
You can get cheap food at the farmers market even, just look around and barter. - positron, on 10/10/2007, -3/+9Pesticide and chemical fertilizer residues.
- chumpsucker, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Certified Organic (TM) will always always be more expensive... Pesticides reduce the labor that goes into producing a crop. No pesticides = more weeds... more weeds = more time cultivating the fields.... time = money....
- fgsfds, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Of course, then you get the *completely organic* Diacetyl ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl ) which has been killing people as a result of it's use in the popcorn industry (Almost entirely workers, mind you.)
"Organic" does not mean "safe", and "Artificial" does not mean "harmful". People need to understand that. - demiurgency, on 10/21/2007, -0/+6Unfortunately, your testimonial is largely anecdotal. When you say "I remember very acutely when I ate whatever I could get for the cheapest price I could find" it sounds like that you underwent a complete shift in your eating habits, replacing many processed foods with fresh foods available at your work place (good for you, btw. I know how much healthier I feel since I've cut out 80% of my processed food intake in favor of fresh foods)
Unfortunately, this does little to narrow down whether your improvement in health is attributed to you eating organic foods vs. non-organic foods, or whether just from a general improvement in your diet (eating fresh foods vs. "whatever I could get for the cheapest price"). It is an apples to oranges comparison.
My only problem with the organic food movement, is those people who advocate them, often advocate them purely on the faith that they believe fewer toxins/pesticides in foods leads to better health and not on any hard scientific evidence, or they base their opinions on a situation like you just described (going from eating junk to eating organic foods and suddenly feeling much much better).
I have not yet seen a reputable study that compares diets of healthy, nutritious eaters (eating lots of unprocessed, fresh foods) that eat non-organic, versus those who eat only organic, to determine if there is a measurable health benefit. Until I see that study, and there are conclusive findings, I will generally treat the organic food craze as based more on faith/opinion/hope than on certainty or fact.
If organic foods are only slightly more expensive, I'll always buy them. But I certainly won't pay $4 for a head of organic broccoli, when I can get the non-certified organic for $1.29. - gcauthon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6What do you buy at Whole Foods besides fresh vegetables? Nobody is saying you need to buy the $20 toothbrush and $5 rolls of toilet paper. If you're a radical vegan, then you probably need to buy everything from this store. However, if you're just someone who wants organic veggies every once in a while then you should not be spending that much more at Whole Foods.
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8Washing the cucumber won't make the farmland less dependent on chemical fertilizer just to keep it arable.
You'll have to pay for change. - thatbirdguy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6"others justify it because its better for the local environment"
That's another misconception. A lot of foods labeled as 'organic' in supermarkets are grown out of province (out of state for you Americans). For example, when you buy organic apples here in February, they're clearly not local, but have been transported thousands of kilometers from the southern US.
I have nothing against organic, but organic definitely does not necessarily mean local. - bromac, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Your parents are ***** gardeners.
- NinjaBoy, on 10/10/2007, -3/+8Or just wash it...
- ausfahrt, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Organic isn't always all it's cracked up to be. Read up on it i dont have the time to get into it but the definition of "certified" organic can differ from country to country and you'd be surprised as to what those regulations let "organic" farmers get away with. There is always a dark side of the force. That being said most of the organic stuff i buy is for the flavor cause u can taste that it is better and that is a measurable difference.
- mookiemookie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5http://www.ams.usda.gov/farmersmarkets/States/Stat ...
What's that now? - KevenM, on 10/10/2007, -12/+17when you consider that you can buy perfectly good food that's NOT organic, for far less money, then yes, it's too expensive. 9 out of 10 times, this stuff is overhyped, and there's close to zero regulation over what can be called 'organic' or not.
- smgrady, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6"the more people buy it, the lower the price will fall."
um, that's not how supply and demand works. I think you are thinking of electronics, where the cost to manufacture a product can decrease with volume. - sarazen, on 10/10/2007, -4/+9Organic is impractically expensive for most people.
- Buckiller, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6made from real bumble bees!!
- NonLeftistDiggr, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Yeah, scratching my head trying to come up with something I've eaten that's inorganic. Water or Nitrous hits maybe?
- bromac, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It's easier to buy a cheeseburger than actually think about what you're eating though.
That's the problem. People are paying for convenience with their health, and usually don't know it or are apathetic about it. Until the diabetes and heart failure set in. Then it's McDonalds fault. - mookiemookie, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Organic is a scam. "Free range" chickens are anything but, the industrial food industry has perverted the term "organic" into something that's not....organic certified pesticides are just as bad for you as regular, but the food industry would have you believe they're not.
"a one-pound box of California-produced organic lettuce contains 80 food calories, it requires 4,600 calories of fossil fuel to process and ship to the East Coast. He adds that the figure would be only "about 4 percent higher if the salad were grown conventionally." - from the Omnivore's Dilemma
BUY LOCAL. Don't get suckered into the food industry's latest marketing gimmick. - fasda, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Yes always buy food that is mostly made of Carbon containing compounds
- raintheory, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I have a very good friend who is an organic farmer here in the US, and I can assure you none of this happens on his farm.
- dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Au contraire mon frere:
http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic/041903_org ...
"April 4, 2003 Agronomy Journal Scientists from the University of Minnesota demonstrated yields of corn and soybeans were only minimally reduced when organic production practices were utilized as compared with conventional production practices. After factoring in production costs, net returns between the two production strategies were equivalent. "
The only reason organic crops aren't the norm instead of the exception is the outstanding marketing efforts of Big Ag and the fact that most farmers don't understand the importance of crop rotation in keeping their soil healthy. - dracostimpy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Yeah, she told me that too.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6If you really want an eye-opening glimpse into the world of mass-produced food (both organic and "traditional"), The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan is a MUST-read. At first blush, I really thought the book would be yet another a sanctimonious cliche from a pseudo-science nut. Far from it. Pollan dives deeply into the industry, and exposes why our food system is the way it is. You'll never look at your food the same way again, and that's a good thing.
- radu79, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I second that, when the farmer's market is open, I always buy stuff from there, it's cheaper and better than in the stores. On the other hand, it's open for only about 4-5 months a year.
- Grindstone, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6It's unfortunate that most people seem to miss the point of Organics. Yes, it's certainly about the health benefits (marginal) but it's much, much more about reducing the crap that is put into the environment by the corporate food organizations and also about reducing the amount of chemicals that need to be produced, regardless of who produces or uses them.
- Boshow, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I heard that if you bury a cucumber, it'll make baby cucumbers. If you want cheap organic food, grow it yourself. People used to do it all the time before supermarkets. You can get a package of cucumber seeds for a little over a dollar and dirt is free. A little effort goes a long way.
- timbellomo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4I agree with many that you have to pick your battles, and you can get a lot of good healthy food that isn't organically certified. My one exception is MILK. Bovine Growth Hormone is WAY to sketchy for me. The other benefit to organic milk is the sell-by date. Non-organic milk is produced on such a large scale (in gigantic vats), and is co-mingled with so many different sources at the packing plant that they can't guarantee freshness. Old milk mixes with new milk and it stays in the system for much longer. Just compare the dates: Organic milk typically keeps over a month, as opposed to 2 weeks.
- ISIfunded911, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Not true: a recent report by the FAO says that organic farming is the only option for the 21st century, and many experiments proved that yields can be better. Example: cotton in Egypt. The industrial agriculture yields are a short-term illusion: they are not sustainable because that type of agriculture destroys the soils. That is as simple as that. Soils end up almost as lifeless as the desert, and with more and more tons of fertilizers less and less grows.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You didn't try very hard.
http://gonyc.about.com/cs/photogalleries/a/greenma ... -
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