What is Digg?56 Comments
- sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16The fact that it's made by childapult products should have been their first warning sign.
- hbweb500, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14@sockpuppets
I own the "Sling-Tot" model car seat, made by Child-A-Pult Products. Never would I have guessed that it was so dangerous! I guess I have to get rid of it now... - hoosierplew, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Just saw an interview on CNN with Evenflo's CEO about their Discovery car seat. They also had the top person at Consumer Reports on. Long story short, it ended with the CEO basically shouting at Soledad so she wouldn't cut him off. He came off looking like a real ass, and I won't be buying anything made by a company run by him for my new baby.
- theboyqueen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Dude, Consumer Reports has 4 million people paying those $20 a year subscriptions. It's amazing what you can buy with 80 million bucks when you don't have a meth habit to maintain. Yeehaw!
- leopardhunter, on 02/18/2009, -0/+7The latest word I've seen is that the spherical safety seat is still in development by Evenflo. That's by the winner of American Inventor.
http://www.americaninventorspot.com/update_on_the_anecia_survival_casule - zip22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7here is the quote you misinterpreted:
"if you already own a Chicco KeyFit, Compass I410, Evenflo Embrace, or Peg Perego Primo Viaggo SIP, use it with the vehicle safety belts, which passed our tests, not with LATCH, which didn't. If you can't get a tight fit with the safety belt, buy one of the two seats we recommend."
those 6 models were the 6 that passed with the belt. the other 6 did not. - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The "FEMA debacle" was a governor and mayor covering their assess for screwing up their jobs. It's a good example of how blaming someone else for your ***** ups is a good idea.
- grubesteak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm a new parent, my daughter will be three months old on the ninth.
This completely blows. We received our car seat as a gift, then purchased an additional base for the second car. Guess which one it is? Yep, the Discovery seat.
But, my wife just returned back to work so money is pretty tight. We can't afford to buy a new car set for a few weeks, but after that, from these tests, we can't afford not to.
Evenflo is screwing the consumer. - BigKitty, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@ahagen,
Thanks for the link.
By the way...I'd like to remind everyone that it is not sufficient for us to rely on the fact that a device has met government safety standards. The FEMA debacle should have taught us that we CANNOT count on government bureaucracies to protect us. For anything that involves health and safety, I believe that we need to learn what we can on our own, and determine whether the product, service or procedure has been tested independently. DIGG is a tool that can help us to share this information, and we should use it for that. - postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7this is all horribly misleading.
if anyone bothered reading CRs writeup OR if those assclows at NBS would bother reporting. CR stated clearly that
is was the LATCH system that was the problem.
IF you use the seatbelt as CR stated that ALL the seats were fine and passed the test.
the problem is the standard with "LATCH" not the seats .
yet another scare the hell out of everyone press release. - leopardhunter, on 02/18/2009, -0/+5The free market only works in economic theory if everyone has perfect information. Consumer Reports has helped the economy by increasing the flow of good information.
The problem these days is that the federal government hides market-relevant information, lies, and obscures the truth.
This baby seat fiasco, with government-approved seats failing in simple tests, is the latest case in point. The government ran incompetent tests on baby seats and released false information to the public, whether out of negligence or by corrupt design. I need not recite the cost of these mistakes.
The other recent one is the FCC's refusal to make public all the connection quality data of cell phone carriers. This is arrogance. Instead, let us the public know which cell phone companies really have the best quality according to the actual data the government already has. Then consumers will react, and the big telecoms will be held accountable. They will have to improve their services. Instead, the government simply keeps the information secret, in violation of transparency, the freedom of information, and common sense. And our calls keep dropping.
The larger point is in our free society we must have transparency in government, and ultimately we citizens will still have to work to get the information we need. Maybe that's not perfect information in economic theory, but we'll take what we can get, and reach for more. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have twins on the way and this was a opportune post. Thank you.
- BigKitty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@postaldave,
Even if the problem is with the latching system, if consumers are unable for any reason to secure the seat properly in THEIR vehicle, then there's a problem.
If a car seat doesn't even fit into certain common vehicles, or if it isn't compatible with the latch attachments, or if it is so awkward to latch that many people won't be able to do this properly; or if it is impossible to be SURE that the seat is properly latched--then there's a problem.
Even if the seat belt can be used to attach the seat safely, the latching system should work also. Too many seat belts and seat belt buckles, especially in the back seats of older cars, are worn, corroded, hard to fasten, or otherwise "iffy." I have to wonder: if the latch attachments aren't supposed to be reliable, why were they offered at all?
If you can find it, why don't you go ahead and post a link to the original article that you are referring to? If you're correct, then maybe some of the people who already have the other seats can use this information to figure out how to secure them properly. - zip22, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5no, they did not all pass with the belt. since you seem to have the issue, try reading it. you can even just look at the ratings. 4 of the 12 did not pass with the belt.
- postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3BTW: those STILL in a panic go to baby r us and buy a graco snugfit. the drop in seat is really cool and the seat hold my little girls head of great.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3But the baby seat lobby has you sticking your kids in those seats until they are 6 years old or 60 pounds. Government follows up with the ticket.
- PillowFight, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I have twins, and we simply could not afford to get two suckass seats, let alone one. I did a great amount of research before settling on the Graco Snugrides (which emerged as a winner), and Consumer Reports was part of that research. I hate to sound like a CR cheerleader, but I believe that Consumer Reports should *always* be checked before either a purchase that requires a large amount of money (car, washing machine, etc.) or involves safety issues (baby and children's products). I really don't understand why everyone doesn't...seriously, it takes like less than a minute, and can save you so much money and trouble. Besides, what kind of chump would simply rely on his Uncle Vern's opinion for everything, or worse, manufacturer hype (which is always crap anyway)?
- Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Your argument would have been valid if the more expensive seats actually did better. But in this case you DON'T get what you paid for.
- lakai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I imported a European carseat the Maxi-cosi cabrio fix ( http://www.maxi-cosi.com ) It's technically illegal to use in the US because of the different standards in the EU and US. I belive it is safer due to EU requirements for Side impact protection and rigourus testing that exceeds US standards.
- zip22, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2here are the ratings
http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6669/infantseattestrh4.jpg - Rakeela, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Go Consumer Reports! I love what they do for the economy, to punish bad products. I'm not sure whether or not I agree with their attempt (as mentioned in the news article) to get the government to change its regulations though. I think that they should focus on non-political publication of wrongdoing.
- postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4if you read CP they clearly state that using the seatbelt instead of the LATCH system allowed all the seats to pass. just hook it up old school style and your child will be fine.
- wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Look at the rankings. The one thing this tells me is that under significant stress the latch car seats are probably unsafe. Note that the best of the lot was just acceptable, (open circle). I bet they would have all failed at 40 or 45 mph. I can understand that the stresses are such that the mechanism (plastic) that keeps the seat attached can easily fail during sudden decelerations. So, I would say that if you are a parent and are really concerned, don't use the latch mechanism in any seat, stick to the old school belt method.
This, however, does have its own problems. The latch seats exist because they are easier to use and more acceptable (read, more affordable) for families with limited incomes (read: almost all new parents). So, which is worse: seats which may fail under extreme circumstances but are OK under most and will be used nearly all the time or 2) Perfect seats which are harder to use, and more likely to go empty with baby not in a car seat? - lfcfan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Just listened to the NPR interview. I think what's being missed in the discussion is that Consumer Reports crash tested the seats at 35 mph because for several years new cars have also been required to be tested at 35 mph. The standard for car seats is tested at 30 mph. The issue is that the car seats are not held to the same standards used to test cars.
- scott1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Here's a quote form his interview:
"Over decades of doing testing, we know that unless every variable is strictly adhered to - from the way the seat is strapped in to the crash test dummy used - the variables can affect the result," Matteucci said. Matteucci said Evenflo tests all of its car seats at 31.5 mph, which exceeds the 30 mph set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/04/autos/car_seats/index.htm?postversion=2007010418
Their definitely trying to hide the really safety of their car seats. Car accidents don't happen when people drive at about the speed limit but when someone decides to drive 80 mph on a 30 mph speed limit. - davidlow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Is it just me, or is the proofreading becoming more and more sloppy for professionally published articles?
Let's play 'Spot The Type-O' with MSNBC:
1. "The data showed that adults in vehicles are better protected than infants riding in those some vehicles,"
2. "But the industry say there's no evidence higher-speed crash tests will result in safer child seats."
3. "Graco and Britax both says their seats undergo extensive testing and also meet or exceed government standards." - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Except they have become basically irrelevant due to poor methodology. They consistently give high ratings to POS products because they're cheaper. I also have found they don't have the skill sets or resources to pull off valid crash dynamics tests.
- bqw371, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/babies-kids/child-car-booster-seats/car-seats-2-07/overview/0207_seats_ov.htm
- smartalecks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2here is also the wikipedia article on Janusz (the inventor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Liberkowski - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2yea, i saw that on the show, seemed like a great idea
- BigKitty, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2IMPORTANT: Please don't digg this down:
Consumer Reports has retracted this report.
See:
http://digg.com/world_news/RETRACTION_Consumer_Reports_pulls_negative_infant_car_seat_report
Even though I couldn't have known at the time, I regret the error... - Refrag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The Britax Companion seat ranked 7 out of 12. It scored "poor" on crash protection for both the seat belt and LATCH tests.
QUOTE
The Cosy Tot and the Companion are infant car seats made by the same company, Britax Childcare Group LTD based in Andover, England.
But the similarities end there.
The Cosy Tot is sold only in Europe; we bought ours in England. It was the top performer in our crash tests. By contrast, the Companion, sold in the U.S., performed poorly in our frontal-crash tests and flew off its base in side crashes we performed using LATCH attachments and vehicle safety belts.
Britax touts its commitment to safety. “When it comes to child seat safety and innovation, Britax continues to be the world leader,” says the Britax Web site. Indeed, the U.S. model passes federal safety standards.
But the disparity in our test results raises this question: Why don’t seats sold in the U.S. perform as well as this European model?
/QUOTE
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/babies-kids/child-car-booster-seats/car-seats-2-07/european-models/0207_seats_euro.htm - simpleman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"It's amazing what you can buy with 80 million bucks when you don't have a meth habit to maintain."
too funny. ROFL - D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The fact of the matter is that Foreign made products are usually really good, and cheaper... I buy foreign whenever I can, because I know it will last...I have a Mitsubishi TV older than I am
- xetelian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If you've watched the news report you will see that while they are pushing for higher standards but the current child seats are still far better then no child seat.
- bram, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here is a NPR interview with one of the CR testers --> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6730810
- zip22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2in addition, 1 of the 12 was unacceptable because it didn't meet federal standards and 1 of the 12 was unacceptable because it could not be installed securely. 6 of the 12 seats tested failed.
- bram, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The main problems were the latch system and side impact tests were bad because there is no government requirement on car seats for side impact crashes. Anyhow, if you are a parent and want your kids safe invest in a Britax carseat. They are expensive, but worth it.
http://www.britaxusa.net/products/search.aspx - postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1it DID meet federal standard it was CP that stated they could reproduce those results.
i'm thinking it was you that didn't read it now. (smiles)
anyone got a link to the full write up? - zip22, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2a bunch of hoey?
of course in a car seat is better than not in a car seat for an infant. they pretty much encapsulate the child as best they can. that does not mean that they are safer than other occupants. as you would see if you read the article, crash tests are performed at higher speeds with crash test dummies (adult i imagine). the infant seat tests are performed at lower speeds. cars are designed to pass the tests for adults. children seats only have to pass the lower tests. an adult sitting in a car is in a device designed to protect them. an infant in the same position has not been designed for. - pixelwerx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1What's especially sad is that a lot of ignorant and misinformed parents are going to disregard the point of the article and assume that their child is equally at risk whether strapped into a car seat or climbing about the cabin, much like people who insist cars are more dangerous with airbags than without.
Even low speed collisions can be deadly to an unrestrained child, and any car seat is better than none. - ShannonGB, on 12/18/2008, -0/+0I just saw it now, old news but still good news.
- bluebeard2, on 02/03/2008, -0/+0In response to the question posed above, "Unfortunately this is Capitalism at its finest. If you can create a car seat that can be sold at a competitive price that passes the government test, or one that is safer but costs 20% more, what will most people buy?"
I buy the one with more padding, safety features, from a company that is respected, in the business for years and at the top of the market for quality. If that one is more expensive one I buy it. Anyone who has kids knows you will do your best to protect them, whatever the cost.
Most injuries to children are caused from the incorrect installation of car seats. Also, did you know that children up to the age of 12/13 (depending on weight and height) are supposed to be secured in an appropriate car seat when travelling in Europe? (http://www.babystuffhire.com/car_seat_law.php has info on it, couldn't find the official EU info on-line). - dh1991, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0According to another article in Jan 2007 http://www.childseatcenter.com/article4.html , CR actually recommended one of the recalled seat!
- postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i read it at work and thats what i thought i read. if you have it at home please respond word for word what they said. i thought they were pretty clear about LATCH being the problem and that using seatbelts would be fine.
- spoonz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Very interesting that the top two seats are some of the cheapest ($90 each) and the $190 seat failed both the LATCH and Belt tests. Apparently you don't get what you pay for.
- postaldave, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1thanks for posting that. that does clear that up.
but clearly not all but 2 or unsafe and it is in fact LATCH is a big problem. now the other 6 that failed where tested using CR
safety test NOT the federal standard.
i'm still calling BS on the whole thing.
the worst thing you can do is get a bunch of new mothers in a panic, all hell could blow up.
NBS sucks ass and did not report the full story. like everything else they report. - Larofeticus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1 wrong thread
- fnaqzna, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1I should add... CR stated that in all cases the child is safer with a seat (even one of these horribly inadequate seats) than they would be without one.
This bears repeating.
---The child is ALWAYS safer in a car seat than the child would be he or she were not in the seat.---
So... this hand-wringing about how the occupants of the car are safer than the occupants of the car seats is all a bunch of hooey. - D3koy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Whatever...babies are only good for robot fuel anyways...
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