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167 Comments
- inactive, on 06/30/2009, -1/+31We don't have health care in the US, we have sick care.
We try to save money by putting off our health expenses, only making our problems worse and our bills bigger. - arcooke, on 06/30/2009, -2/+28My dad was terminally ill with cancer and often spent weeks at a time in the hospital at around $1000/day. I don't remember the exact situation as it was almost 5 years ago, but for some reason he had to be taken by ambulance to the cancer center next door every other day (had something to do with dialysis I think). Each trip cost $800. To put the ridiculousness into perspective, here's exactly how far apart they are:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&a ...
Not to mention the dialysis every other day cost about $1200 per session. And not to mention 6 major surgeries in 2 years that totaled somewhere in the 6-figures. His insurance paid 80% .. but only after he spent $2000 out of pocket. Each year. And since Texas is a community property state, my mother inherited all his debts, medical included. And she's uninsured and almost 60 and has health problems she needs to see a doctor about but can't afford it.
People in Canada and France and the like really have no idea just how bad we have it here. Our medical system is absolutely out of control. Obama better not ***** this up. - ceredron, on 06/30/2009, -2/+26I have bluecross blueshield, and I made the mistake once of not asking if the person I was seeing for a checkup was a "participating provider", even though I called to check and make sure they were "in the network". Ended up having to shell 80 bucks for a checkup.
Goddamn, I know this is what Obama is fighting for, and that's why so many people are so supportive of a nationalized healthcare alternative. Because I will ***** take it and it will work better than my current insurance company, which dimes and nickels me at every turn, except those dimes and nickels too often are grants and benjamins. - njb444, on 06/30/2009, -4/+26The problem with for-profit health care is that it is most profitable to keep people as sick as possible for as long as possible.
- charlie6969, on 06/30/2009, -3/+24As this is a personal story; HOW is it inaccurate?
Pitiful, Mier.
My life has been destroyed by medical bills over the last 20 yrs. despite having "good" insurance through the Post Office where I work. Another operation on the way next month which will completely ruin me financially once & for all. Single Payer Now!!!!!!!!!!! (from WIlliam in Indiana) - JQP123, on 06/30/2009, -1/+21A few facts:
1) As it currently exists in the US, health care is badly broken. You have be either blind or an extreme ideolog to not see this.
2) Health care is not, has not and never will be a working example of a "free market". The reason is obvious --- consumers are literally forced (often under penalty of death) to purchase health care. Once a gun is placed to the consumer's heads, free market economics and all it's potential benefits go right out the window.
3) Where "free market" economics can't be reasonably expected to work, government has an obligation to step in. Particularly considering the fact that it is often a matter of life and death. This is nothing new, there are numerous examples of this currently in place.
4) Absent any sort of significant restraint or control, the bad side of "free market" economics will run rampant. Greed and profiteering will ultimately damage the overall economy and make us less competitive and less able to afford health care. This is the path we're on now. - kingmanic, on 06/30/2009, -1/+19The market is weird. A lot of Canadian nurses and doctors head south for the money. 5 years later 80% are back because the money doesn't compensate for the ***** of a health system you have down there and the layers of politics, bureaucracy, and *****.
If you were worried about bureaucrats then the 30% to insurance bureaucracy American system should be your greatest fear! Compared to the 1% to bureaucracy in the Canadian system. The same insurance bureaucrat works out what compensation for each procedure will be which indirectly determines what the doctors will be paid. US doctors make as much as they do because one of their biggest costs is to insure themselves... notice that someone is double dipping there.
If you fear faceless bureaucrats your health system swims in them and they do a hell of a lot more decision making then bureaucrats do in the Canadian system. As well the small number of companies in that business and the massive impediment to starting one up means there isn't really a market there.
Good luck with your *****. It'll take a lot to fix it. - ceredron, on 06/30/2009, -2/+19I'm gonna put it out there and put the blame on high overhead costs for insurance companies, not exactly the people down on the floor passing you your meds.
You know. The ones making 50 million dollars a year, up there. - Slackdragon, on 06/30/2009, -1/+18Until we break the stranglehold insurance companies hold over American health care, no progress can be made. And everything I've seen so far, even from the so-called "socialized" health care model, is being drafted with an eye to keep insurance companies just as powerful as they are now.
For instance, the case of NY Dr. John Muney, being forced... FORCED to raise his prices. His practices model of billing could revolutionize healthcare, but since it forgoes the insurance companies and cuts them out of the loop for the most part, it's illegal.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03042009/news/regional ... - clifftacopter, on 06/30/2009, -0/+16Yeah, inflated physician salary is a myth. Doctors don't make what they used to. As a somewhat recent medical school graduate, I can tell you it is NOT easy to start a family or a life with $250,000+ in debt accruing massive amounts of interest while you're being paid $50,000 a year for 80-110 hours of work a week during 3-8 years of residency. The amount of time it takes to pay off that debt is in the decades.
I would totally be fine with a deflation in my salary if it meant I had been given access to free (or almost free) medical education like all those other countries. - frsrblch, on 06/30/2009, -1/+16"People in Canada and France and the like really have no idea just how bad we have it here. Our medical system is absolutely out of control. Obama better not ***** this up."
No, we can certainly see it from here. Single-payer is off the table as far as your elected officials are concerned, and so long as the insurance companies can lobby away with your money the situation won't get any better. We're rooting for you, but how much actual change Obama can bring you is debatable.
Digg me down, digg me up, I don't care... I just hate seeing people being exploited like this when they're at their weakest. - raptorlightning, on 06/30/2009, -3/+16Just read what njb444 said, and it's completely true.
Corporations + Healthcare = Psychopath in charge of saving your life.
Great job there America. - Chakat, on 06/30/2009, -9/+21We actually pay what they're worth instead of what some faceless bureaucracy declares them to be worth?
- superherofive, on 06/30/2009, -4/+15I currently do not have health insurance of any kind due to the cost of having a policy.
I have a pain in my abdomen that's been getting worse over the past 6 months.
I can not afford to get it seen about.
There's a chance it's cancer, and I'm typing this dead.
Thank you America. Thank you for being the land of the free and the home of the brave. Thank you for putting dollars above people. Thank you for continuing to spend trillions on who knows what, and lining your pockets with the money of hard working Americans. Thank you for taking better care of other countries than your own. - DirtyVicar, on 06/30/2009, -4/+15A million-man march on Capitol Hill to demand health care reform can't be that far away. It's really too bad that consumers haven't banded together and organized already.
- kingmanic, on 06/30/2009, -2/+12Socialized health care works in all of your affluent allied peers. The only reason it won't work in the US is because one more political parties and a large portion of the populace want such a thing to fail on ideological grounds. Similar arguments were made in Canada at the onset but the success of the program silence all direct criticism and even the wackiest right wing nut job I know in my city would shoot the man who took our single payer system away. It may not be perfect but it certainly brings a lot more security, social mobility, and civility to our society in general.
- Maddoktor2, on 06/30/2009, -1/+11Wow, you conservatives are truly heartless pricks.
That's why you lost in 2008, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
We don't need your kind in any position that deals with the well-being of your fellow citizens of the once great country you ruined in only 8 short years.
To bash someone with a real problem that might be fatal if left untreated is about as low as you can get.
Be ashamed, and may the parental monsters that spawned and imbued you with these inhuman values be damned to burn for all eternity in whatever purgatory there may be for their crimes against humanity.
People like you make me hope for a hell. You and your ilk deserve nothing else.
Disgusting *****. - bugsy187, on 06/30/2009, -2/+11It's a matter of time before you get sick too. I wonder if you'll be dismissive of problems with American health insurance then.
- cersad, on 06/30/2009, -0/+9Really? Because I always thought a for-profit insurance system was a blatant conflict of interest so fundamental a child could see the problem. But then again, I've definitely gotten nickel-and-dimed by my coverage.
- jayjayjoni, on 06/30/2009, -7/+16exactly, which means they aren't worth that much. Pharm grads are not worth 100k+ after school. It's time to end high costs of healthcare by ending inflated incomes of healthcare professionals.
- fiatjustitia, on 06/30/2009, -0/+9I do not have a problem with my tax dollars being spent on helping superherofive's potential medical problem.
Why do the rest of you? It's basic human empathy, you might want to look into getting some. - Zarimus, on 06/30/2009, -2/+11For gods sake, litigation is not the answer, and Universal Healthcare doesn't mean the government has anything to do with your medical care. All the government does is provide a generic health insurance plan for its citizens. Doctors still decide what care you need, they still send the bill to an insurance company, it's just a Federal one.
And providing health insurance for all your citizens IS a moral thing to do. - seanmc303, on 06/30/2009, -0/+9frsbich made a good point. The insurance industry has been giving generous campaign contributions/bribes to many politicians in both parties. Politicians supporting health care reform take a considerable personal career risk. I respect those that do. Corporate lobbyists are the death of the US.
- yardie, on 06/30/2009, -1/+9Funny you should say that. I'm in France right now and I think they have more pharmacies per square block than NYC has starbucks. Could it possibly be because competition has driven down the price of medicine and the salaries of pharmacists?
BTW the pharmacy down the street from me is open almost 24hours. When he's not he posts a list of other pharmacies in the area, the days, times they are open, and a phone number. - reeds1999, on 06/30/2009, -0/+7The insurance company bureaucracy is every bit as onerous as any government bureaucracy, and they definitely do not focus on the patient's best interests, and they are rewarded for not spending the money you pay them on your care.
- zip000, on 06/30/2009, -0/+7My story that no one is interested in (i.e. "cool story bro"):
My doctor said I should get allergy shots. I ask the insurance company if I have to pay for them or if they will be covered. They give me a misleading answer that makes me think they are covered. I get allergy shots. Three months later, I get the bill for the allergy shots.
I even pressed them on the issue of whether the shots would actually be covered, and they elaborated on the misleading answer enough to make me believe that they were covered. I had to go back and forth between the insurance company and the doctor to try to figure it all out. Eventually I find out that no they aren't covered. And it's my fault for not having asked exactly the right question - even though I asked a crap load of questions that should have elicited the information but didn't.
Anyone that thinks that we don't have a bureaucracy in our health care system already is either lying, mislead, or so rich that they don't have the same problems that most of us have. - sk1d, on 06/30/2009, -0/+7The simplest way to phrase this would to ask yourself, what do you value more, the health and well-being of your fellow countrymen, or the ability of insurance companies to make obscene profits?
- fiatjustitia, on 07/01/2009, -0/+7addendum:
@thecoolestguy
Here's you're quote from above: "It's tyrannical and flies in teh face of individual liberty."
here's another snippet of your time honored wisdom from another thread: "Yes, women should be in the kitchen! It works out best for everyone."
http://digg.com/arts_culture/Do_Women_Belong_in_th ...
You sir are in no place whatsoever to lecture us about personal freedoms, you knuckle dragging, mouth-breathing sexist dolt. - pinchduck, on 06/30/2009, -0/+6Why do you want to control their pay? Isn't a better goal to make the whole system more affordable?
- beachsouthpaw, on 06/30/2009, -0/+6I really don't understand the hysteria in this country against any sort of nationalized element of care, including but not limited to a government run insurance company. As you have it, the American system is the worst of both worlds. People need to shop around and are subject to stupid, inefficient, profit run healthcare while at the same time using their tax dollars to subsidize the oldest and poorest (medicare and medicaid) members of the population. Not having these people in a pool with younger folks means you can spread the cost around.
- raptorlightning, on 06/30/2009, -4/+10Yes, but there are better systems, that improve the quality and quantity of healthcare.
If we just picked up the Canadian system, we would no longer have anyone without healthcare. From that point we could improve on what they did, just like improving a piece of technology.
Sure it works 75% of the time, if it didn't they would start to lose profits due to too many people dying or lack of trust in insurance. They keep it at the absolute minimum to make the most profits while denying as much care as possible. - superkendall, on 06/30/2009, -5/+11A family member just went through a surgery and everything was fine, we paid only our deductible and the insurance paid the rest.
Since we're all sharing stories here we should also not ignore that for countless people, the insurance system we have works. We just need to make the actual care less expensive. - fiatjustitia, on 07/01/2009, -1/+7here we go again... an internet freedom fighter who believes that *any* taxation equates to cops busting into his room, and opening his wallet in front of him to empty it.
If you don't like taxation, go live on an island- seriously, GTFO. If you don't understand the basic concept of contributing a portion of your money to keeping society rolling, just leave.
Oh, and before you go screaming at me about our constitution, I'll save you the trouble:
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" Article 1, section 8.
Please tell me how "provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States" doesn't apply to keeping your fellow American healthy. - wimbor, on 06/30/2009, -1/+7Really?
Then why does France (or other EU countries) enjoy LOWER total costs of healthcare, while at the same time improving the care level. Google and you will find (first thing I came across was this: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28 ...
Not to mention the fact that this also leads to smaller "collateral damages" (poor people forced to make a living out of crime).
That being said, it is not all roses and sunshine. There are some risks to a socialised health care system, and it needs to be managed right. But given the huge amount of untreated patients in the USA, you might argue that it is at least an interesting option to look at. - raptorlightning, on 06/30/2009, -3/+8The AMA's monopoly and price fixing. For every extra 70k a pharmacist makes, think about how many hundreds of k are going into pockets up the chain. What's that same 100% more on top of a 200k a year average salary? On top of a 1 million a year salary of a chief exec.?
- superherofive, on 06/30/2009, -4/+9You're what's wrong with this nation.
- spectecjr, on 06/30/2009, -1/+6Non-profit doesn't mean that they don't make a profit. It just means they don't keep it. They either pay it out in salaries for execs, or they spend it on infrastructure and equipment.
Guess which they tend to do? - fragMasterFlash, on 06/30/2009, -3/+8We can't let the politicians have all the money. Doctors need hookers and blow too.
- mytealjacket, on 06/30/2009, -1/+6I'm really sorry to hear that. Have you looked online for any nearby community clinics, that serve you even if you don't have a lot of money? Or maybe take a second job?
I do wonder about what I would do if my parents needed my help in that way -- I want to be ready to help them, but I'm just not that financially stable yet.
I do wish we had a health care system that took care of everyone -- what we have now is almost barbaric. - EricSchC1, on 06/30/2009, -0/+5How the ***** does not being able to afford health care, with or without steady and honest income constitute milking the system? Furthermore, when it comes to the health and prosperity of all Americans, rich and poor alike, we're all in fact entitled to a minimum standard quality of life. Last I checked, being poor is NOT a moral affliction. More Americans than not have no means to ever break the income barrier of the lower-middle class, regardless of their best efforts and intentions. If anything doctor-administrators who's jobs amount to rubber-stamping "approved treatment options" for healthcare patients are the biggest freeloaders of all, as their jobs don't actually entail the practice of saving lives.
- iletumi, on 06/30/2009, -0/+5with as much pharmaceutical intake as possible where the drug companies come in selling you pills at $40 a pop (must be taken twice daily for the rest of your life)
- 4degrees, on 06/30/2009, -1/+6thank you for being so brave while others feel free to step all over you.
- Obermeister, on 06/30/2009, -1/+6I urge all of you that want a public option to email your senators and representatives to let them know how you feel. It's not going to happen unless we force them to listen.
- Chakat, on 06/30/2009, -2/+7Why do you claim they're not worth that much?
- kingmanic, on 06/30/2009, -0/+4jayjayjoni:
You numbers don't jive with the my area:
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-pharma ...
The only thing I can think of is that your stats are flawed or over weigh rural areas where the cost of living would make 45k a generous salary. At the moment the average for my town is 86k for a full time experienced pharmacist and around 72k for a less experienced one.
Chakat: Since you clearly have no idea let me inform you. Pharmacists work for private entities. Drug stores are owned by either independent businessman or pharmacists themselves. The market is free to pay them what they wish. They can move from ***** Saskatchewan to Toronto if they want more money. They can open their own store, they can work for any number of drug store chains like Shoppers Drug mart or Rexall. Like optometrists dentists and most doctors; pharmacists do not directly work for the government. They get payment for SOME services from the government while the majority of their business is either individuals or company drug plans. - beautifulady, on 07/02/2009, -0/+3Another problem is that the best doctors come from overseas, and we have discouraged immigration as part of our War on Terror. We also restricted the number of foreign students coming into the US to study, which is stupid because a great many of them stay on after they finish their education. A third problem is that most med students decide to go into the much more lucrative specialist fields, which creates a lack of family practice doctors and general practitioners. Many smaller cities have this problem, and during the 80's I experienced that situation myself. For several years in the city where I lived, there were no family practice physicians accepting new patients, and I was forced to take my kids to the emergency room when they were sick. I wasn't the only one.
- e1ioan, on 06/30/2009, -1/+5The health care is a RIGHT just like you have the right to be protected by the police. Everyone should be taxed for health care and everyone should be able to go and see any doctor without getting a bill in the mail. Just imagine, the police won't protect your house because you didn't buy a homeowner insurance... if that seems stupid to you, the sick insurance from US is just the same.
- penglust, on 06/30/2009, -0/+4This complete *****. The government is not only better at many things but the only one who can do them. Do you really think the Haliburton fiasco in Iraq was good for our country.
Our power grid is fragile at best.
Health care is mostly a failure at the moment.
Banks are failing right and left.
We could not manufacture our own ammo if we got into a really big war.
Our water and air are more polluted every day.
Thank you industry. Please give me some more. - penglust, on 06/30/2009, -0/+4Remember the fires in San Diego a couple of years ago. There were several affluent neighborhoods saved because they had their own private "fire service". While the public system was severly overstrained battling getting to to stop spreading these guys were using water resources an a limited amount of land.
Yea for fairness. - Obermeister, on 06/30/2009, -0/+4Sometimes I have to shake my head and wonder what exactly is the problem with people who think like this. What makes them so angry about their tax dollars helping out people in trouble? I mean, they usually don't have any trouble with our tax dollars going to things like killing 150,000+ Iraqis and lining the pockets of companies like Halliburton. Why should the police investigate the murders of people who can't pay for it? Maybe the fire department should send you a bill after putting our the fire at your house? Why should we feel any different about saving your life if you get cancer? I'm lucky enough to have a job that will probably not fire me if I'm out of work for months while doing chemo, if I'm unlucky enough to get sick. But I know that millions of other Americans don't have that. What is it that makes so many poeple lack this basic sense of empathy for their fellow humans, even more so their fellow Americans?
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