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155 Comments
- itsthemechanic, on 06/18/2009, -2/+155Got stung by this years ago. My private health insurance cancelled me, because they didn't want to pay some expensive dental treatment.. they kept poking around until they found something in my shrink's notes who asked me "how long have you felt this way" and they turned it into actually suffering from depression at the time I got the insurance -- something I didn't know I had at the time, and which wasn't diagnosed as such.
When I asked for my premiums back, since they considered my police null and void and to "never have been in force", they said "we're entitled to them, it's the law".
Private health insurance are the scum of the earth, no matter what they would like to make you believe. - philosophyzombi, on 06/18/2009, -2/+106This should come as a surprise to no one. The Health Insurance companies really just want to be investment firms. You pay the premiums and they use your money to make more money. So, of course they would do whatever they could to avoid paying any of that back.
- ArchetypeRyan, on 06/19/2009, -1/+85These guys are the scum of the Earth. I agree with some facets of the libertarian viewpoint, but I don't understand why people on the right can't see that if we leave the corporations alone to do their own thing that this is exactly what happens. The magical 'invisible hand' of the free market isn't going to make them stop stealing our money. There needs to be balance and accountability, not full on profit mongering.
- roguenkatz, on 06/18/2009, -2/+69Any more reason needed to abolish health insurance altogether?
- Armor1901, on 06/19/2009, -1/+63Bet your sweet candy ass that these bastards have NO problems with their own god damned health insurance...
- redcolumbine, on 06/19/2009, -0/+58While the opponents of single-payer warn speciously of "rationing," people are being cut off altogether for the crime of being sick - or, more precisely, for not being able to prove that they've never been sick. These companies are run by lawyers and investment bankers, and anybody with medical training who dares to object gets the door shut on them and, if possible, their license revoked on a similarly flimsy pretext, simply because the insurance companies have unlimited funds with which to cover their filthy asses.
- DirtyVicar, on 06/19/2009, -3/+43In 2008, health care spending in the United States reached $2.4 trillion ($8000 per capita). France, which is regarded as having the best health care system in the world (though not without budget problems) spends less than half that per capita. You can bet most of the US costs are going to middlemen, insurance companies, and lots of executive compensation.
And before anyone starts with that spiel about malpractice lawsuits and jury awards, that's a myth that has been pretty well debunked; a Google search pulls up some good background on how that myth got started. Really if you think about it, propagating the myth makes a great propaganda for industry chiefs and insurance firms to get the public to protect their earnings. - charlie6969, on 06/19/2009, -1/+40But, but, only small percentage of people have this happen to them!
s/
That small percentage is still a LOT of people and they still COUNT! - Decimit, on 06/19/2009, -0/+39Health insurers are scum. Deny coverage based on pre existing conditions. Drop your coverage when you actually need it. They don't give a ***** if you need help, they only care about their money coming in. I believe every government should provide complete health care for their citizens. We don't need companies like this that only feed off the people without really giving anything back. They make bad situations even worse.
- tgc1, on 06/19/2009, -1/+37Insurance companies are one of the second greatest scams ever perpetuated on the human race.
- jpop, on 06/19/2009, -1/+32If this is true, get yourself a lawyer. If they rescind you they have to give you back your premiums since the policy is null and void. They aren't entitled to them.
- inactive, on 06/19/2009, -4/+34But..but..but the free market will save us! ron paul said so!
/s - stealthdave, on 06/19/2009, -0/+30Years ago before we met, my wife did a good deed for an elderly woman by calling an ambulance after she slipped and fell. The paramedics came and took good care of her, and recommended that she (the older woman) be transported to the hospital. That was the last my wife saw her, but it got her thinking: what if she didn't have the means to pay for her visit? The woman didn't look very well off, and may very well have not had insurance. Had she inadvertently sent her to careening towards bankruptcy? In my opinion, it's rather sad that we live in a society where this is a valid concern. She eventually made a short film inspired by the whole incident: Code Blue http://bit.ly/codeblue That incident was 15 years ago. It's time things changed.
- Alphabet, on 06/19/2009, -1/+29This is why I hate insurance companies, they're only there to make a profit. That means, on average, you will pay more to the insurance companies than receive. It's not just health, it's also car, house, etc.. I forgot what their profit margin was, but it was high. What's stupid is that in some cases, people are forced to have insurance such as car insurance.
- Hopnivarance, on 06/19/2009, -0/+26the profit isn't the issue. dumping people who paid for insurance at the time they need the insurance is the issue.
- neoquietus, on 06/19/2009, -3/+27The free market at work!
No, seriously, this is a classic example of why we have some regulations: under only free market pressures, health insurers will try to spend as little money as possible, which means getting rid of people who actually use the insurance. - SDM187, on 06/19/2009, -0/+24It'll probably end up costing more for the lawyer before its all said and done
- enantiodromia, on 06/19/2009, -1/+23this is how insurance companies "regulate themselves". anything for a buck.
- Khast, on 06/19/2009, -0/+22I had insurance in 2003. Got a real bad case of food poisoning. Since the health coverage was paid for by my work, they kept me on the roster, but changed my coverage to "It don't matter how much you pay in, we aren't...period" (Basically dropped me, but kept accepting my premiums.)
- rawnzilla, on 06/19/2009, -4/+25But but.... FREE MARKET PRINCIPLES! GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER!! SOCIALISM!!!!!!!
/s - darkened, on 06/19/2009, -0/+19When you sign up for insurance you release every single medical record to them and permission for them to look up any records they want.
These records are then entered in the Medical Insurance Bureau (MIB) where they are stored forever and are private information of the insurance companies. At this point all insurance companies have access to your medical records with no longer needing HIPAA requirements, even if it's not an insurance you have yet but only applied for insurance. - kingnova, on 06/19/2009, -0/+19The bills related to my cancer treatment are well over 100k. Have you put aside at least that much, in case you have a catastrophic illness?
- siszam, on 06/19/2009, -0/+19People complain that there will be health care rationing but there already is. Some people never get care at all because they have no coverage. Some care is better than none. The people who are insured are still victims of rationing. All you have to do is Google health care rationing and add the name of your insurance to see page after page of lawsuits over it.
Brazil says everyone has a right to free health care. It's in their constitution. They are also energy independent. Seems like our government should send a team of people to Brazil to learn how the civilized operates and how we can model our system after theirs. - Ajajadude, on 06/19/2009, -1/+19How did they get their hands on your shrink's notes? Aren't there laws against getting that kind of information without you giving your doctor permission to release it?
- jayjayjoni, on 06/19/2009, -3/+21This is exactly why we need universal healthcare. Cheaper, more efficient, free, and equal access.
What we need to do is NATIONALIZE the private healthcare industry, and use their resources for socialized medicine. - centran, on 06/19/2009, -0/+17You buy it so that hospitals will treat you properly. Try going to anywhere but your county hospital without insurance and see how well you are treated.
Yes, they are doctors and supposed to help you but in the end it is a business. - itsthemechanic, on 06/19/2009, -0/+16Part of your contract with the private insurance company is a waiver for the patient confidentiality rule, and that they have access to your medical records, doctor's files, notes, and the like.
- mmmtoblerone, on 06/19/2009, -0/+15Read what you quoted. They said they won't limit that action to clear fraud. They are going to punish clear fraud and not remembering what happened to you as a child. I had an allergic reaction to a medicine when I was a young child. I had the same doctor until I went to college, so I never asked my parents what it was as the doctor just made sure from my chart to make sure I never got it again. When I was prescribed that medication at the student health center in college, I ended up really sick and was just lucky my uncle was a local doctor who took care of it for me. He said that if he was unable to collect from my insurance because I hadn't even been told the name of the medicine when I was 5, never mind memorized it. Fortunately, because he was my uncle, I didn't have to figure out what to do about his not getting paid.
Another instance was my daughter not being able to breathe (just a year old at the time) while I was visiting my brother in another state. It was in the middle of the night so we rushed her to the nearest ER and she got breathing treatments, meds for when we left and a big bill. Insurance denied payment because they said we were supposed to call our primary care doctor before any trips to ER. Like I didn't know my doctor wasn't going to be in at 1 in the morning? When I told the doctor, he said that his answering machine told people to call 911 or go to ER if an emergency when they weren't in office so I would still have been in the ER. It took 2 years to get them to pay and I was a lawyer at the time who litigated insurance coverage claims, among other things. If I hadn't been, it may never have happened, and certainly not without a ton of money in attorney fees and costs. They bank on it being more trouble than it is worth. - rchargel, on 06/19/2009, -0/+14Please, your insurance company has more access to your medical records than your doctor does. Read HIPAA sometime.
- kingnova, on 06/19/2009, -0/+14Your solution is rationing of care? Who gets to pick and choose who gets care? The rich first? A lottery?
- GregFD3S, on 06/19/2009, -0/+12WTF?
http://digg.com/business_finance/Largest_Healthcar ... - Ajajadude, on 06/19/2009, -0/+11If that's the profit, then how much do they pull in before costs?
- Thistlejack, on 06/19/2009, -3/+13What myth about malpractice suits are you talking about? There is absolutely no doubt that malpractice costs us money, and there's tons of literature showing that the outcomes of malpractice suits have zero to do with merit. Typically, when a panel of physicians gets together to assess which cases should have won and which should not, there is no correlation with the panel's prediction and the actual outcomes. That's just wrong.
OBs will all candidly say that they practice defensive medicine in order to stave off a lawsuit. Here's an example. In states where malpractice costs are high, so are the rates of C-sections in non-emergency situations. It's like day and night- in NJ some hospitals section 40% of new births, while in Wisconsin it's more like 5-10%. Wisconsin also happens to be the only state (AFAIK) where a doctor's assets cannot be taken in a malpractice suit. World health advocates say that anything above 15% is not safe for mom or infant. The reason is, of course, that doing a section is a much more defensible procedure in the courtroom. Sadly, you are much more likely to get sued for failing to do a section than you are for doing an unnecessary section. This directly conflicts with the medical literature on the actual safety of doing a normal birth rather than a c-section. Read up on how John Edwards made his money to learn why doctors are forced to do the wrong thing because of malpractice. Heck, you can even get Continuing Medical Education credit to attend a seminar where you learn which outcomes cost the most money in a courtroom battle- all in order to prevent malpractice, and with total disregard to patient care. It's not uncommon for an OB to pay $100,000 or more for malpractice insurance. At $2500 a birth, you need to do 40 births just to break even. - Oatlord, on 06/19/2009, -1/+11And none of the horror stories of the alternative system are told or matter.
- tgc1, on 06/19/2009, -2/+12The first is central banking systems. And coercing our governments to allow private companies (the federal reserve et al) to print and coin the money we use, which we then pay interest on for borrowing (WTF!?). Instead of, you know, coining it ourselves and not paying these ***** douchebags.
Keeping in mind the above that the banks get the money from THIN ***** AIR. Because it is fiat currency. Backed by nothing. Made from nothing. You might as well use Monopoly Money. Because that is what it is. - Ajajadude, on 06/19/2009, -0/+10Pay cash? Really? Good idea, if you're making 6 figures and don't need any serious procedures done.
- Eorster, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9As a small business owner that pays for the plan by writing and signing a check every month, as anyone with health insurance should have to do, it is standard practice to shake the tree of people who utilize their insurance due to major medical incidents in the hope that they fall off. Believe me if you have no experience with how insurers do this, from making jump through hoops requirements of you that have no basis or reasoning, such as returning notarized documentation of no secondary insurance policy within x amount of days or your policy is canceled to things such as the price of COBRA being more than many peoples monthly income, you are in for a rude awakening in the future. Remember it's not a matter of if but when. The health insurance industry is a pit of vipers that need to be put in check.
- sodade, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9...and how much do they ***** with their books to show a small profit?
- Pyrallis, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9Actually, if you look at health care expenditure per capita, nationalizing DECREASES the amount of tax payer money that funds health care. The United States spends tax dollars on health care at a rate approximately double to that of countries with nationalized plans.
It's counter-intuitive, yet true.
Here's just one source among many: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada ... - KMye, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9hope you kicked the cancer's ass
- chrisjj, on 06/19/2009, -1/+10How else would the executives get their bonuses? These people are rewarded when they deny coverage based on sickness. Michael Moore's film 'Sicko' exposed these shameful practices for all to see. Get the insurance industry out of healthcare and make health care a consitutional right paid for by our taxes. It works well in all 19 other Westernized countries and it will work here.
- kingnova, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9I gave it a dirty beatin! Still recovering slowly, and now have the whole waiting 5 years to make sure it doesn't return,.
Thanks though, KMye. - rchargel, on 06/19/2009, -0/+9As a Brazilian, I can say that yes we have a purely socialized healthcare system. Our doctors are federal employees and are payed a regular wage, not payed per visit. There is no incentive for doctors to rush you out the door so they can see 150 patients per day. There are certainly problems in our healthcare system, such as it is hard for people in rural to see specialists, and in extremely isolated areas there may be a total lack of doctors (good luck finding a general practitioner in the middle of the rain forest). It does not take months to get an appointment. I once got a CT scan during a walk-in appointment to an emergency care clinic. It took my grandmother 2 weeks to get an appointment with a cardiologist after her doctor recommended she see one. In contrast, it took me nearly one month to see a specialist in Philadelphia when I started having kidney problems (during that time my one of my kidneys shut down and I had to be rushed to the emergency room still about 10 days before finally seeing a specialist), and I have Blue Cross before you ask. I have family and friends in the US who would rather pay for the plane trip back to Brasil to see a doctor rather than deal with the medical system here in the US. Brasil also has private hospitals for what one might consider boutique healthcare, or for really rare conditions. I have also heard Americans say that our government covers plastic surgery. This is only true in the case of reconstructive surgery.
Now how can the Brazilian government afford to supply absolutely free healthcare to 200 million people. It's easy, our doctors make far less than your doctors do. Brazilian doctors will never become millionaires (unless they work for the private hospitals, but even then you're really talking about only the most famous plastic surgeons). My mother was a doctor in Rio de Janeiro. We had a two bedroom apartment a few blocks from Botafogo Bay (where the yacht clubs are). She had a nanny/maid. We didn't have a car, but that's because she didn't know how to drive, nor did we have a professional cook, but that's because my grandmother lived with us and she loved to cook. My brother and I went to an upper-middleclass private school. This put here squarely in the middle-class. Being a doctor also made her a member of the educated ellite, but not wealthy. She was an employee of the Ministry of Health. I might also add that while the Brazilian government tends toward corruption, we've had a series of extremely competent and honest administrators of our health department and one of the most successful AIDS programs in the world.
The one question that the right keeps asking is "do you really want a government bureaucrat between you and your doctor?" First, we have no such bureaucrat in Brasil. Your doctors says you need surgery, you get the surgery. The government can't interfere (though since the doctors are federal employees it could be argued they are the bureaucrats). Also, I would rather have a publicly accountable government worker (who has no financial risk to himself) making healthcare decisions, than some corporate hack that is payed to keep costs down as their highest priority.
As for energy independence, this has come at a huge cost to our natural resources. Brazil is one of the "greenest" countries on Earth because we get most of our energy from hydrolic plants (we have lots of rivers). But to do this we've had to flood acres of forest land, killing wildlife and displacing native tribes. Our carbon footprint might be low, but we are far from an environmentally friendly country. - sulanebouxi, on 06/19/2009, -1/+10What are the other second greatest scams?
- HYPEractive, on 06/19/2009, -1/+10@sodade. The idea is out there. Obama's plan is calling for a public insurance OPTION, not the "socialized medicine" that the wingnuts are saying.
- tumbler360, on 06/19/2009, -0/+8Sick people cost money. You only want to insure healthy people, and charge them tons for it so you make even more money. The health insurance companies are a big scam. And when you do get sick they'll just give you some drugs and tell you everything is fine. Why spend money on patient care, that means less money for the insurance company!
- reverland, on 06/19/2009, -0/+8And I wouldn't be surprised if there really was a law that stated that they get to keep the money he pays in.
- DangerCollie, on 06/19/2009, -0/+8If the margins are that bad, get out of the business. Get behind the government plan and STFU.
I hate f'ing whiners. And I really hate whiners that stick up for greedy, corrupt corporate interests. -
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