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65 Comments
- allocate, on 12/30/2008, -1/+35I suspected that this might be the case. As a law student, I look around sometimes and shudder about the prospect of people relying on a few of my classmates. Would I ever say anything about them though? Not sure.
- AnonBuffalo, on 12/31/2008, -1/+24No *****. Every career has people in them that are crappy in their work. Even health care professionals.
- draculthemad, on 12/31/2008, -1/+22Its an old saw but still true: "What do you call the guy who graduated last in med. school? Doctor"
There are some bad doctors, and they keep practicing, even after being sanctioned. If they get fired, they just skip town and move to a different state. Try to do your research, and ask other doctors if your gp is competent. There is a reason second opinions can be life savers. - soupwithafork, on 12/31/2008, -2/+22Agreed - and as a medical student, I see people like this once in a while who I wouldn't trust with someone's life. Don't get me wrong, most people who make it all the way to medical school are definitely qualified to be there, but there's always a couple who manage to slip through the cracks. Works that way with just about everything - only in medicine, the consequences can be more serious.
- tmlee, on 12/31/2008, -2/+20Sometimes medical errors work out for the best. Didn't your dad ever tell you about his botched vasectomy?
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+14Not surprisingly, not to speak ill of an incompetent physician is itself an act of incompetence - if one truly values "doing no harm". If you truly value the well-being of others, then to keep silent about professional incompetence is to, in fact, "do harm" to the well-being of others.
You cannot rightly claim to honor the first, "do no harm", if you claim to honor the second "speak no ill". - inactive, on 12/31/2008, -1/+13just try to file a workmans comp claim and you will find this very true ,,or get a second oppinion when the doctor knows the other doctor ,,he will almost always agree with the first oppinion
- scamper22, on 12/31/2008, -1/+12There is no such thing as an honorable profession. It just doesn't exist.
There are however honorable people in every job.
No profession should be given the power to regulate itself. Whether teachers, police officers, doctors, bankers...
Should we expect doctors to against their friends and coworkers? No... it is common that they don't. The same for the other professions above. It would be nice if they did and the ones that do it are admirable in that way.
Why is this news I don't know. You could make the following statements just as easily
Engineers know the bad and bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
Factory workers know the bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
Nurses know the bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
Teachers know the bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
Accountants know the bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
CEOs know the bad ones in their midst. Do they rat on them?
Oaths, pledges... all mean crap. Like getting immigrants to say loyalty oaths. Yeah... if someone was intent on doing harm, they won't because they swore an oath. The only thing that works in an independent regulatory body with the power to hit irresponsible people with fines or jail time. - AnonBuffalo, on 12/31/2008, -0/+11***** Health care professionals shouldn't exist, but they do. Nobody is perfect. I work at a pharmacy and am going to school for it. There are people in my class that I think will make ***** pharmacists. Others will make ok ones, and a few will make great pharmacists. One mistake in a pharmacy in 10,000 is too many but unfortunately unrealistic. Perfection for any job doesn't exist.
- CopyCat138, on 12/31/2008, -0/+6Want to know which doctors are good and who you should have as your Physician???
Ask the Nurses whom they would have taking care of them. They have the knowledge, relationship with the Docs and with the patient and their families. Gives them the understanding of both sides of the coin. - Murdats, on 12/31/2008, -0/+6and unless you hvae proof what are you going to do, go to the medical board and say "you know this guy, he isn't very good, I feel he shouldn't be a doctor"
how well do you think that will go down. - Jerfmayne, on 12/31/2008, -0/+6That's why you don't tell the first doctor where you are getting your second opinion from...
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -1/+7I think this is pretty common in most disciplines - you don't rat on your peers, even if you don't like them. It's elementary school all over again - kids versus kids, but when it comes down to it, it's always kids versus adults.
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+6schools are institutions, and like any institutions, they've their own microcosms of culture, complete with popular kids, teachers' pets, and outcasts - but social standing doesn't equate to medical knowlage or prowess. The ones who do well in school are the ones who play by the rules - but satisfaction with a 'C'-grade on your surgical exam doesn't mean that you'll be satisfied with anything less then 'A'-level work on an actual patient. A lot of people have trouble understanding this simple principle - not everyone has the same priorities.
- Gnikcjack, on 12/31/2008, -4/+9What do you call the guy who graduated last in med. school? Doctor"
This is one of the most often repeated cliches out there. It has nothing to do with place in the class, some of the worst doctors can come from the top of the class, or from the "best" schools. Med school grades you on how well you suck up to your attendings and how well you memorize biochemical pathways, not how competent you are or how much time or attention you give to your patients. I understand what you're trying to say, but that saying doesn't mean anything. Besides, medical school is so remarkably difficult to get in to that even the person at the bottom of the class is still extremely qualified. - DrDigg, on 12/31/2008, -0/+5AMA is not a union, it is a professional society. Doctors can't form unions (unless they are residents in training). The AMA does have a PAC but most agree that it is a fairly weak and poorly run PAC. Health care costs have risen, but it has nothing to do with the AMA. You have no idea what you are talking about.
- DrDigg, on 12/31/2008, -0/+4What people fail to realize is that medical school is just a part of someone's medical training. As you go through medical school there are national exams which you have to pass to continue on through training. After you finish medical school you have to do additional training (called an internship then residency). These are three or more years of supervised training. I was a chief resident at a fairly large university program for internal medicine (adult medicine). In our class of 30-40 interns we would always have a few who were not very good. We would target them for additional instruction and would occasionally extend there internship beyond a year. If they still couldn't cut it they would get kicked out of the program. Our program felt there was a standard we had to meet. Of course after training doctors still had to take additional exams to be board certified.
So to protect yourself look for a doctor who did there training at a major university and is board certified. If you are really concerned ask the nurses, they usually have a good idea who is better doctor. - digitalhair, on 12/31/2008, -0/+4the ***** ones are the ones that can't admit that they might be wrong.
I don't expect perfection, I expect humility that manifests itself in the form of empathy for the patient toward identifying and treating specific needs.
This, combined with a desire to learn and evolve in order to adjust to new information to gain a more comprehensive understanding, is what makes a doctor a "good" doctor - in my opinion. - NJank, on 12/31/2008, -0/+4or maybe they were both right in the first place...
- palehorse864, on 12/31/2008, -1/+4Physicist 1: Be careful, don't inhale too much of that helium or you could float away!
Physicist 2 (In a high squeaky voice): *sigh* Darn it Jenkins! - inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+3Yeah a lot of professions have this "unspoken law", not just doctors. I mean I'm a preservice teacher and when I look at the other preservice teachers, I sometimes shudder, because I think "People will be entrusting their kid's education to these people......one of which can't figure out how to make a new folder on a desktop...."But I don't say anything, that'd be unprofessional.
- gkiltz, on 12/31/2008, -1/+4There is not an occupation out there, not doctor, lawyer, accountant, police officer, news reporter, mechanic or truck driver, in which the competent members of the occupation don't know an incompetent when they see one!
Problem is, most would face recrimination at some level and set back their own career, or take money out of their own family's pocket if they speak up!! Most simply can't afford to run that risk!!
It is NOT that they don't know what ethical behavior is, or that they have their doubts that someone should come forward, but they look at the risks, and they realize it can't be them!!! - SammyJr, on 12/31/2008, -0/+3Nurses do have in depth knowledge of doctors, but if they start badmouthing them, they won't last long. Most keep their mouths shut around the patients.
- SammyJr, on 12/31/2008, -1/+4Want to see ***** docs? Just go on the maternity floor of a hospital. There you will see doctors who are selling unnecessary cesarean sections and circumcisions. Having a baby with an OB is like buying a car from a smelly guy in a tweed blazer - they always try to sell you ***** that you don't need that invariably makes things worse.
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -2/+4i had a doctor with a picture of himself at a club here on miami beach with his arm round paris hilton on his office wall
i had broken four bones in my hand and had vicodin given me by the surgeon
so i am trying to talk to the paris hilton fan / doctor about how to taper off them best and he grabs his rx pad and starts to write me another vicodin rx
i found myself another doctor - inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2In the least, one ought to be clear about what sort of "doctor" one intends to be. Some are healers, some are merely moneymakers. Some are honest and clever enough to be both.
- Trichomonas, on 01/01/2009, -0/+2Agreed. You have to be kidding if you think the nurses are going to tell you who the worst doc is. They might let you know who the great ones are but they certainly won't tell you who not to go to.
- akatsuki, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2So instead you let it slide? Didn't sue anyway and subpoena the second doctor as a witness? Didn't file a report either with the AMA, I might guess? Did you even post a negative online review? Probably not, 'cause you didn't even mention his/her name in your post.
- charlie6969, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2One of my best friends is a medical assistant.
I know more about the inner workings of doctor's offices than I should. lol
I would trust her opinion of doctors above all others, I think. - Noooooooooooooo, on 12/31/2008, -4/+6Some of these people get into medical school through pure ***** and cheating but just goes to show it will eventually come back and bite you in the ass... but most do become health career professionals through hard work and dedication.
- bipolarruledout, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2It's my opinion that nearly all educational institutions have failed to generate meaningful metrics with which to judge the success of their programs. I see little correlation with credentials and the quality of professionals. I'm not exactly sure what to make of this but I would suspect that raw intelligence is a better indicator of quality than anything else.
- Robjayne, on 01/01/2009, -0/+2more than a labor union for doctors. Their job, like all labor unions, is to maximize the profits of their members. But the AMA is a labor union with power because it controls who can "practice medicine." In other words, the many experts in alternative cancer treatments cannot "practice medicine" unless they are first trained and brainwashed in the use of pharmaceutical medicine. However, that is not the end of it. Not even an M.D. can "practice medicine" if he or she does not use "approved" procedures which are adequately profitable to Big Pharma and the other members of the AMA.
The relationship between Big Pharma and the AMA is a quid pro quo, roughly translated: "you scratch my back, I'll scratch your back." The AMA makes sure its members prescribe toxic substances to increase the profits of Big Pharma. Likewise, the AMA makes sure its members treat the symptoms of disease (instead of the causes of disease) to insure the patient is not made well too quickly and the profits of Big Pharma are not hindered by the treatment of the causes of disease - bipolarruledout, on 12/31/2008, -1/+3I admit it's highly unprofessional to have such pictures up in a doctors office but you can't expect a doctor to read your mind. If your use of narcotic pain killers was of concern to you then you should have spoken up and asked about other options. There is absolutely nothing wrong with prescribing pain meds to someone clearly in pain but there are plenty of people who have moral objections to using them even when little potential for abuse exists.
- reva, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pbKRc-0mSs
(Kids in the Hall comedy skit) - natertots, on 12/31/2008, -0/+2drug rep? that's like asking a car salesman where you should buy a car.
- Midtowner, on 12/31/2008, -1/+2In my state, what is an unwritten rule in other states, i.e., physicians will not testify or speak ill of their colleagues is actually a rule that most physicians have to follow as a condition precedent to be eligible to be covered by the state's largest (and least expensive by a long shot) malpractice insurer. If a physician testifies against another, their coverage is not renewed or dropped.
As a law student, I know that as a lawyer, I'll have an affirmative duty to report ethical misconduct of my peers to the state's Bar Association. Apparently, this is quite the opposite with medical practitioners.
This activity on their part is justifiable in their eyes due to the fact that they must practice 'defensive medicine' in order to avoid lawsuits and that there are too many lawsuits, etc. The facts are, at least in this state that medical malpractice lawsuits are way down, the aforementioned insurer has been posting record profits, and these so-called problems are part of a widespread publicity campaign to bring about tort reform.
While I truly do appreciate the difficulty involved in entering the medical profession, I don't think that excuses malpractice. It does occur, and in some cases, the malpractice is blatant and the resulting cover ups almost shock the conscience.
I do think that both the legal profession and the medical profession could both do better jobs of policing their own, but some of the war stories I've heard about these medical malpractice cases are really quite shocking. - designerutah, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1And it doesn't hurt to start with only the Board-Certified ones. Oh, and check up with a local attorney specializing in medical malpractice... they can give you great insight into who's a *****.
- charlie6969, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Last I heard; life and death decisions trumps all others.
So, are you a doctor? Or are you a human being?
Well then; act like a human being!
And watch out for your fellow humans; the patients. - bipolarruledout, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1And it always makes YOU look bad if you speak ill of them. That's just the way it is. It's the responsibility of superiors weed out bad employees and NOT peers. Wish is wasn't so but such is the workplace today.
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1you're right, of course, although there's a difference regarding levels of impact between professions - contrast the consequences of a public servant's reluctance to rat on their peers to something more inconsequential, like a secretary, or a barista.
- Robjayne, on 12/31/2008, -6/+7The AMA is one of the strongest unions in the world. It has run costs of health care thru the roof.
- fallingdamage, on 12/31/2008, -1/+2Putting small tubes in around or behind the eardrum is not uncommon. I have known a couple people who had tubes inserted behind their eardrums due to chronic earaches and other problems. Just like when you get some types of surgurys after accidents, they leave tubes sticking out of the stiching to help drain the fliud from the infection. Probably same thing. The fact that she developed a 2nd infection is unfortunate, but chances are it wasnt from the tube that was put in place to drain the fluids in the first place.
- Robjayne, on 01/01/2009, -0/+1The IBEW is also a professional society.
- hazyeight, on 01/02/2009, -0/+1You sir made me doubt my mastery of the english language with the use of "isicompetent". Luckily a quick look in the dictionary revealed that you're an idiot, and apparently I am as well.
- museamongmen, on 01/01/2009, -0/+1It is an interesting article but I read that paper-form a looong time back!
- inactive, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Agreed, I'm a preservice teacher and I see ALOT of lazy, incompetent teachers who are more detrimental to the student's education then anything else and it makes me angry because they know they can't be fired easily for their shortcoming because of whatever union they belong to or because of "tenure" and they don't have to answer to anyone. The parents can't do anything, they can't demand better, the administrators won't do anything, so these teachers are kept year after year. My solution to this is: Privatitaion of the educational system like in Europe. Students are given vouchers, parents choose where their child goes, and the schools that don't measure up, don't get the money and I guarantee that they will be firing more lazy teachers then. But of course, unions fight this because it isn't in their best interest and students pay the price. I know this and I am a teacher. All I can do is try to make up as much as possible for my lazy peers.
Also, it isn't fair to be mad at the teachers who don't "rat" or blame them, because there is often nothing we can do and it causes an unpleasant work environment. It is damn hard to get a teacher fired, so even if we did "rat" on them, it'd do little good. - bipolarruledout, on 12/31/2008, -0/+1Agree. It also seems that in professional fields the mediocre tend to rise to the top. Quality engineers for example don't want to manage anyone or anything they just want to engineer. This strikes me as a big problem because it prevents to weeding out of incompetence by those who have responsibility to do it simply because they might not see it or even care.
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