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- redrock34, on 10/11/2007, -8/+183Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life.
- youngerpants, on 10/11/2007, -13/+145I always preferred; "Light a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
- Anrkist, on 10/11/2007, -18/+145The AID money has never been about getting into the hands of the people who need it. It just makes the people who donate feel better about themselves, that's what counts.
- atdigg, on 10/11/2007, -25/+148Overstate the AIDS problem? Really?
- smoothmedia, on 10/11/2007, -8/+68WOW. This article/conversation is eye opening. Shikwati makes a lot of sense.
- sarazen, on 10/11/2007, -1/+56What a delightful breath of truth. If we really wanted to help Africa we would eliminate our own taxpayer propping of the Cotton farming industry, among other subsidized crops. Allowing Africa the opportunity to compete in the world market for things like Cotton, they grow the best, and textiles would facilitate their utilizing their resources to their best potential. More free market would be great for Africa, it's basic economics.
- Fungo, on 10/11/2007, -16/+70I think it's a shame that all the people who should read this most likely won't. We can all do our part not helping, but will our governments change their practices?
- shrewduser, on 10/11/2007, -16/+70"Money + Africa = corruption
Absence of money + Africa = bloodshed"
do you have anything other than your belief to back up this?
how is giving corrupt people money stopping bloodshed as you suggest? wouldn't it just empower them and halt real grass roots development?
libertarian *****? well you've just stated your firm beliefs... but yet again without the facts and figures to back them up... - lieutenantmudd, on 10/11/2007, -5/+58"Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life. Stop flooding his markets with imported, subsidized foodstuffs, and you make fishing an economical viable profession for him"
Seriously, two thirds of foreign aid is about corporate welfare and actively hurts the developing world. I was a Peace Corps health volunteer. My village had plenty of farmland to grow the necessary food, and yet the child malnutrition rate was about 30%. The problem is that a farmer can not rise above subsidence level because he can't get a good price for the extra food he grows because of dumped food from aboard. So there is no reason to grow as much as you can, you are not going to make good money anyways. And you definitely won't make enough to invest in new farming techniques other than using your hands and a hoe.
Foreign aid at least for America is a form of corporate welfare. For example, government food aid has to be transferred on America flagged ships, which costs a fortune compared to cheaper shipping lines. So the US is dumping money to the US shipping industry instead of giving money to the developing country and telling them to buy extra food from a neighboring country. And the food we do give them is "worthless" essentially. Literally, when farmers grow too much the government buys it and has it to figure out something to do with it, because it would depress US crop prices if sold here, so they depress crop prices elsewhere. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -10/+53Simple logic really ..
It scares Western donors into paying up more or face a global AIDS plague.
Tinpot dictators can graft off even more cash and further entrench their power. (which is the problem he states) - togra, on 10/11/2007, -3/+44This guy makes a very good point. Africas biggest problem is bad governance: African politicians are too useless and corrupt to do the job of providing the services, infrastructure, education etc that the people need to develop: It is western aid that largely keeps these people in business. However there are some charities & private aid donors that are able to ensure that aid money is spent in a useful way.
The other big problem is not 'neoliberal globalisation' but the policy or the USA / Europe / the IMF of forcing african countries to privatise & sell off their resources while maintaining tariffs and agricultural subsidies that block trade. Allowing African countries to trade freely is the only way they will ever be able to develop. Western policy towards Africa is the opposite of being helpful on so many levels.
50 years ago China was in a far worse econominc condition than Africa. They didnt need aid handouts or Bob f***ing Geldorf to fix their country. Just decent leaders who enabled free enterprise to develop, and who governed (mostly) int he interests of their people. - Deenem, on 10/11/2007, -0/+39First off, Africa has two deserts and one rainforest, the remaining 50%+ of land is perfectly arable.
As far as the article goes I couldn't agree more, Americans and Europeans please listen up.
STOP SENDING AID, JUST CUT YOUR FARM SUBSIDIES!!!!! - Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -10/+47Christian missionaries have the right idea. The way to modernize Africa is to send people, not money. Send teachers and doctors. And the money that is sent can be received by the workers in the field, so that they can manage it properly. Never trust the governments in third-world countries to handle aid money properly.
- WhoTheWhat, on 10/11/2007, -4/+38You see this in our country as well. Creating a dependence on charity only serves to promote degenerate behavior. When you continue to give a mother more money for each child she has, who is all the while not pursuing gainful employment, you are encouraging her to have more kids. I occasionally consult with my friend’s section 8 housing business. We were speaking to one of his 65 year old female tenants who has been living on government subsidies her entire life. Her last child just moved out of the house and now she is looking to adopt two more kids because she can’t get pregnant. When I asked her why she wants to adopt she said “Cause my salary is going to get cut if I don’t”. But heck, what are her alternatives? We have taught her to be dependent and as a result she has no skills that she can offer to society. If she were to go out and get a job that she was qualified for, she would be losing money- and heck, she’d have to work on top of it.
- ryno35, on 10/11/2007, -16/+50These are simple conservative principles. The same reason welfare reform (enacted by Clinton) works is the same reason giving money to Africa doesn't. Conservative principles, they work every time they're tried.
- Pentarix, on 10/11/2007, -19/+51Unfortunately, you can't truely help people if they aren't willing to help themselves in the first place.
- ryllharu, on 10/11/2007, -4/+32Africa, the continent everyone likes to pretend doesn't exist...by throwing money in its general direction.
- theghoul, on 10/11/2007, -2/+27Best line in the whole article:
"Why do we get these mountains of clothes? No one is freezing here. Instead, our tailors lose their livelihoods. " - splash, on 10/11/2007, -1/+26Aid is not completely pointless. In terms of giving money to governments maybe, but individuals do need the aid. Look at what the Grameen bank has done through micro-finance. But as always there are many other problems with Africa (lack of Rule of Law, economic institutions, AIDS) which makes it a different case to countries with micro-financing like Bangladesh and Indonesia.
- pr3998, on 10/11/2007, -4/+26I blame Bono.
- cr1t, on 10/11/2007, -4/+23Well I live in South Africa, If anybody feels they want to help buy sending some money my way please email me. :)
PS I accept US$ and Euro's - abasher, on 10/11/2007, -4/+23No, Spiegel as in Mirror.
- SopMan99, on 10/11/2007, -3/+22Wow apparently this Kenyan guy is saying that capitalism works... who knew
- kilps, on 10/11/2007, -1/+17Come now - only a small amount of the continent is dry (we are talking about an area bigger than the US in case that helps)
I'm living in South Africa which is one of the most developed African countries - basically what I see as the best things the West can do is
a) stop agricultural subsidies for it's own farmers so our farmers can compete fairly in foreign markets (remember we still have to transport stuff)
b) investment - I do think aid is important but most of the countries over here need to be weened [how do you spell that?] off it - what really helps is big business investing which creates jobs
c) promote good governance - no really, not just mentioning that the situation in Zimbabwe is bad but actually doing something about it, and putting pressure on other countries to do so
basically we don't need handouts - 5xSTUN, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17Teach a man to create an artificial shortage of fish, and he'll eat steak. -- Jay Leno
- Silencer7, on 10/11/2007, -3/+17You have to keep in mind that much of the American Midwest is only farmland because of massive government subsidy. This goes for productive former prairie as well as marginal lands that should never be used for farming, much of it using up millennia of stored organic capital, accelerating erosion (most of Iowa's farmland is 6-12 feet lower than before farming began) and depleting aquifers at unsustainable rates. This 'river of corn' is far, far more than the US could ever use, so it is dumped on Africa.
Many libertarians hate this policy too, but even from those of us who think governments can do some good things here, all this does for Africa is drive their local farmers out of business. Understanding US farm policy is key to figuring out how things got so messed up. - cactus476, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13I have first had experience with this corruption. I used to ship supplied to a small town in Ethiopia. Half of the "shipping" cost for the container went right into bribing everyone from high ranking government officials to Joe Schmo working the on the load dock. If one of these POSs didn't like us for any reason, our cargo would sit in customers for months and the likelihood of having it stolen went up every day.
- ldhertert, on 10/11/2007, -4/+17There are other ways to go about the problem without sending money directly. Sometimes my church will take donations and spend 100% of that money buying & shipping this drug (the name is escaping me now) that prevents the transmission of HIV/AIDs from a mother to a child. I believe it's $12 a dose, and it might take 2 or 3 doses to take effect. Can you imagine that you could spend $12 (or $12*3=$36) and actually "cure" a new baby? Now, this isn't to say that it's not possible that a corrupt ruler couldn't hoard these drugs or sell them, however they're being shipped to missionaries and I find it difficult to believe that word didn't make its way back that the drugs were never reaching.
- GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13Artists are smarter the everyone else. Don't you watch MTV?
- general13, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13First, I apologize for abusing the comment system.
I was in South Africa (port elizabeth area) in March, doing a humanitarian aid/'mercy mission' with Oceans of Mercy (they work with my church, Westside Family).
The AIDS problem is *not* overstated. I think the problem is a lot of organizations don't know what the hell they're doing when it comes to giving aid. It is SO important to give "hand outs," but heavily emphasize a "hand up." I.E. don't just keep dumping supplies into a broken economy & culture - you have to train people how to think, and how to USE the opportunities given them.
That's why it makes me so mad when these idiot celebrities go over to third-world countries, either to raise awareness of themselves, or because they're tired with their wasted lives and suddenly want some meaning, or because they want the new Gucci - an adopted third-world baby. They do more harm than good.
Passing out condoms, passing out food, passing out supplies - they're great ideas, but unless they're coupled with long-term relationships and *hard work*, they're just a fleeting waste of time. It takes personal investment in the lives of dying African's to make a difference, and that takes TIME, and unfortunately a lot of money, which is a major inhibitor for people wanting to help. So, they give money to programs like (Target's?) "Red" program, without having a clue where the money is going.
It's just a liberal forum on the Internet, but Digg readers - if you've ever thought about going to a 3rd-world country (Mexico doesn't count), I would really encourage you to pursue it - it was one of the most rewarding things I've ever done with my life. - GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15"Christian missionaries start by asking people to convert to chrisitans"
This is just plain false. I cannot speak for all Christian mission groups, but I have done mission work and we never required anything close to conversion prior to receiving assistance. We made it clear that our mission was empowered by our belief in Jesus Christ and that those beliefs are what led us to leave our homes and families to go help total strangers, but we never required anything of the people we helped. - noahhoward, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Education is far more important than aid money.
- flink405, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15If Europe would open its markets to food grown in Africa that would be a huge step.
And quit subsidizing European farmers so much. - embraboy, on 10/11/2007, -8/+19Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Give a surrealist a fish and bingo was his name-o
- vfrex, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13Splash wins for the most intelligent commentary to this article. Economic development seems to be shoved into growth models which simply have not worked. Countries have vastly different challenges from one another, hence the need for very specific solutions.
- JangoFett, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Businesses looked to Latin America for cheap labor twenty years ago. Once that labor market was saturated, business looked to Eastern Asia and India. Eventually the Chinese ecomony will ramp up to the point where there is no economic benefit to build items or hire workers there. Where will businesses go then? I predict Africa becomes the next big cheap labor market by the end of the century.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -2/+13"It seems like just yesterday that the dry African continent was covered in lush farmland. Damned the USA for turning it into a desert incapable of growing basic food."
Do you know anything about Africa. Places like Zimbabwe have been compared to the garden of eden. My father spent 3 year living in Zambia and he was amazed because he could throw a tomato out the windows and he'd have tomato plants growing next year. Anyone here tried to grow tomatos and know how difficult they are to grow.
Some areas are arid yes but places that would make the agricultural areas of the US and Europe look like deserts are also suffering from famine. - fixyourthinking, on 10/11/2007, -7/+17One of our church missionaries showed how greater than 70% of ALL USA $$$ aid/ food aid is stolen by rebels, terrorists in Africa. Most of it happens AFTER the "assistance" has left - the villages are taxed like the Ants by The Grasshoppers in A Bug's Life.
- domokunt, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10But the important point this guy makes isn't that African governments are corrupt (aren't they all?) - Its about free markets.... when we swamp the 3rd world with food and aid what happens to demand for local produce? What happens to local employment? Then what happens when we loose our do-gooder charity obsession and Africa hits real hard times? Its just like these morons who criticize sweat shops without understanding the reality of free market economics.
- GabrielS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10The Made In Nigeria goods are inside the trucks that deliver the goods to Walmart. It's called oil.
- kethraal, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11"Literally, when farmers grow too much the government buys it and has it to figure out something to do with it, because it would depress US crop prices if sold here, so they depress crop prices elsewhere."
But that's the problem -- the first part of that: "when farmers grow too much the government buys it". It shouldn't When a farmer grows too much, it's his problem, not the governments. You can solve BOTH problems (i.e. domestic overproduction and foreign price depression) by simply not having the government buy farm surpluses. The problem would resolve itself instantly. The only reason a US farmer grows more than the market demands in the first place is because he knows the government will buy it. - Bizdorph, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11I always thought the following was interesting:
1. Products grown in the states/canada/wherever you live are often priced higher than products from other countries.
and yet...
2. They are able to dump off food at ridiculous prices in Africa.
Subsidies hurt everyone. - rhinohelix, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Yes, you have found the only American-Right-Wing Kenyan economics expert. How does this not fall under "solutions that come from the indigenous people"? Reducing the availability of weapons? Great luck with that. It's a shame you are so locked in to your own worldview that you can't see past your own intentions. While the efforts are noble, they aren't helping the way the are intended. It just goes to prove the point that despite the evidence to the contrary, those on the Left would rather keep a failed program going than admit mistakes. It's the not the program's fault, it's *the world* that's all messed up. I thought reality had a liberal bias?
- chaesar, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12This is hilarious, because Bush just promised $30B in AIDS aid to Africa over the next five years. DOH!!
- kurtu5, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_plan
"Hong Kong, despite being seriously damaged by Japanese action and occupation in World War II, received no aid from other countries. Hong Kong initiated a series of reforms which called for deregulation, business tax cuts and a laissez-faire attitude towards business. After the China civil war (1945-1949), many upper-class people relocated to Hong Kong, bringing to this tiny island a large amount of capital. Hong Kong also became the only channel of trading between mainland China and the West after 1949. As a result, Hong Kong developed into one of the most successful economic zones in the world."
So basically Hong Kong got zero, nada, ziltch from the Marshal Plan. Now look at the economic mess its in... oh wait.
/Don't listen to me, I am a stoopid libertarian. - tspencer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12I suggest you read some of William Easterly's (previously in the World Bank organization) books on Aid to the developing tropics and sub-saharan Africa. Excellent read and a REAL eye opener to this mess.
- ICSU, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8We are sending aid to Africa and at the same time supply it with weapons and luxury products for the corrupt elites, who have tons of money ... from aid.
- crashbang, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit_Man
I am not sure if people have seen this book or not. Pretty educated crowd here so i am sure you have at least heard of it. Any opinions? - neuropsychguy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9@splash
You referred to "micro-finance." That was exactly the first thing I thought while reading this article. I don't think we should get rid of the aid we just need to give it appropriately.
If anyone isn't familiar with micro-finance and micro-credit start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcredit and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance
Basically, the money is still there but it is loaned (usually less than $1000) directly to the people who need it to help them start or expand their businesses or to gain an education. They then are required to pay the money back over time (with interest). It's a brilliant way of helping people in developing nations. - endzeiteule, on 10/11/2007, -6/+14Aren't you mixing up things a little bit? The article claims that the foreign aid destroys the local economy, because the aid itself comes from outside of the African economic cycle.
Last time I checked, the US well-fare was not some kind of European donation program.
And why do ~85-90% of the European citizens work, although they could use the government's well fare programs? Because, yes you can live from that money, but it is not the living standard most Europeans would be pleased with. -
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