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423 Comments
- BobSconce, on 02/05/2009, -19/+107They're talking about stripping the license... Why aren't they charging him with murder? That's what we call it when you take a live baby and kill it.
- 2Conservative, on 02/05/2009, -16/+61What kind of MONSTER could do that to a baby. I mean seriously, how many people have lost their soul to the point that they throw away a baby.
- URnotheonly1, on 02/05/2009, -11/+55WTF?
- dave11980, on 02/06/2009, -4/+41I don't see how anyone can think 5 minutes earlier when it was still in the womb it would have been ok.
- SchoolLoft, on 02/05/2009, -34/+71I hope that this article is spread around the nation. I believe that killing a baby in the womb, half out of the womb (partial birth), and completely born is all the same... murder. It's sad that so many people have become uncaring about this topic, and I've even heard people recommend abortion to others, or help finance it. Killing an innocent baby will not make anyone's life better... It is NOT the solution!
- SallySaucer, on 02/05/2009, -24/+50"At 23 weeks, an otherwise healthy fetus would have a slim but legitimate chance of survival. Quadruplets born at 23 weeks last year at The Nebraska Medical Center survived."
"She concluded she didn't have the resources or maturity to raise a child"
ok, so I've recently been having some issues, and I'm realizing that I don't have the maturity to raise my 468 weeks old (8 yr.) fetus (child).
Also, what can I say? ... The economy if you haven't noticed is a mess.
ok, so I'm realizing I don't have the resources to raise this 468 week old burden.. I mean fetus-child.
So when I get home I'm just gonna scoop this THING up and bat it over the head and place it in a plastic biohazard bag (fetus = biohazard, ewww!) and throw it out.
Problem solved.
Feeling much better now. - Jashobeam5, on 02/05/2009, -32/+56This is business as usual. When you repeatedly kill babies, why would one more make a difference? Abortion clinics have used starvation, drowning and smothering for decades to kill babies born alive. The story ends saying "it" was thrown away. At least give the poor baby a name or recognize the child is male or female. A child is not an "it".
- Wolf73b, on 02/05/2009, -31/+54Question: Why the hell should the girl care what happened to the baby? After all, she was ready to have her killed.
Answer: She thinks that she can get money from a lawsuit.
Conclusion: She is no better than the doctor, and is perhaps worse.
Come on, abortion rights activists--try to defend this one!!! - niradg, on 02/06/2009, -18/+41This is why we need abortion to be legal and well regulated. If it is made illegal, there will be just as many abortions, but they will be carried it out in a way that is unsafe.
- existing, on 02/06/2009, -5/+26"Why the hell should the girl care what happened to the baby? After all, she was ready to have her killed."
Maybe, when faced with the actual birth of her child, the woman had a change of heart. - ChromaVita, on 02/06/2009, -13/+32Where the hell did all these comments come from? While I don't agree with late stage abortion, it shouldn't be used as an example to criminalize all abortions. This issue isn't as black and white as you're painting it.
- CaptainAmerica1, on 02/06/2009, -21/+39Premeditaed murder...pure and simple.
- dragonfire417, on 02/06/2009, -8/+24"It was 3 months premature for ***** sake do you really think it had a chance at living?"
Length of Pregnancy Likelihood of Survival
23 weeks 17%
24 weeks 39%
25 weeks 50%
26 weeks 80%
27 weeks 90%
28-31 weeks 90-95%
32-33 weeks 95%
34+ weeks Almost as likely as a full-term baby
Source:
http://miscarriage.about.com/od/pregnancyafterloss ... - dave11980, on 02/06/2009, -2/+18Obviously the person who threw a live baby in the trash not only condones it but performed it.
- sjl127, on 02/06/2009, -9/+25Let's see how fast there will be murder charges filed - I won't hold my breath.
- WoofThis, on 02/06/2009, -14/+29Sickening, barbaric and criminal.
- autex, on 02/05/2009, -10/+25damn, that's cold.
- inactive, on 02/06/2009, -13/+28Cue stupid social conservatives trying to set up a pro-choice strawman. Oh wait, they already did. Listen, idiots, there's a difference between abortion and infanticide. There's a difference between what this woman did and abortion. They are not the same. Stop trying to impose your views on what other people should do with themselves.
***** social conservatives. - Akairenn, on 02/06/2009, -16/+30Questions to you religious douchenozzles who will stop at nothing to legislate your mythical fantasies upon us:
What don't you get about "terminate her 23-week pregnancy"?
How many pro-choice people have you actually met that would agree that terminating a pregnancy this late is acceptable?
What is it like to live in fear that one day, you'll have no power to enforce your twisted morality on the rest of humanity? - rotundo, on 02/06/2009, -3/+17Actually there is some truth to what he's saying:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intact_dilation_and_e ...
It's a controversial topic, but many abortion clinics have had to eliminate a living being after removal from the womb. Call it what you will, but it's desensitizing and what happened in this story is not unheard of.
I'm pro-choice and vote accordingly, but I'm against third trimester abortions. - 47f0, on 02/06/2009, -14/+28"liberals say that abortion isn't murder?"
Nice try. No, it's not. But that's not what this story is about.
This story documents clearly exactly why Roe v. Wade must stand. Something conservatives simply can't understand is the real world - which prior to Roe v. Wade meant that this ***** would have been completely underground, and the mother probably would have died at home from sepsis.
As it is, he's out in the open, can be prosecuted and lose his license altogether.
Simple-minded conservatives want to return to the good ol' back-alley days - after all, it's not a crime if the nice folks can't see it. - inactive, on 02/06/2009, -12/+25How about a theoretical abortion, 10 minutes after conception? Offing a few cells is murder too? Not all abortions are equal (however most fundamentalists are).
- JigoroKano, on 02/06/2009, -4/+17That baby would have like a 40% chance of living in the NICU of a good hospital and a 0% chance of survival in nature.
But I don't think viability is useful in the abortion debate. As medicine advances, we will be able to push viability all the way down to conception and even preconception (a sperm and an egg in the freezer).
At some point it will get absurd, so I don't think viability is useful in drawing any strong ethical lines. - 5urr3al5am, on 02/05/2009, -9/+22Sadly people will believe anything to make life easier for themselves alone.
- pinchduck, on 02/06/2009, -2/+15That is one of the problems with the abortion debate: It is dependent on geography, not human rights. It's like a controversial college football play. "Was his toe inbounds? Then it is a catch. Touchdown!". "Was the baby out of the uterus? Then it's a human. Murder!".
In my (probably unpopular) opinion, if your solution to a problem is "kill it", then you are looking at the wrong solution. That goes for your irritating neighbor, the country of Iraq, a woman who may have committed adultery in Saudi Arabia, some scumbag criminal, the victimized population of Darfur, or an unborn baby. If "Kill it" pops into mind, then rethink your solution. Yeah, there are exceptions. If I'm being attacked by a maniac, I will defend myself. If a woman's life is in danger due to a bad pregnancy, then abortion may be the only solution. But in the vast majority of the cases, killing is just plain wrong and should not be done. - JenniferInMO, on 02/06/2009, -1/+14They are investigating and haven't determined yet if charges will be filed.
- existing, on 02/06/2009, -1/+14FTA: "Police recovered the decomposing remains in a cardboard box a week later after getting anonymous tips."
The police recovered the remains a week later - AFTER getting anonymous tips. It does not say the anonymous tips were given a week later. And who's to say who gave the anonymous tips? It could have been someone calling on Williams' behalf, or it could have been Williams herself; I don't know - and neither do you.
"You think that she was so "out of it" that she couldn't stop the doctor from tossing her baby into the garbage, but she was lucid enough to fall in love with her daughter? That's absurd" - No, it's not at all absurd. Williams' account FTA: "She says Gonzalez knocked the baby off the recliner chair where she had given birth, onto the floor. The baby's umbilical cord was not clamped, allowing her to bleed out. Gonzalez scooped the baby, placenta and afterbirth into a red plastic biohazard bag and threw it out." - For one thing, Gonzalez was not a doctor, but one of the clinic owners. For another, a procedure like this is traumatic enough without having it happen in a recliner. Along with everything else, Williams' I'm sure was frightened.
Like I said; unless you've been in this situation (and I don't think you have), don't be so quick to point your finger. - dragonfire417, on 02/06/2009, -2/+15I believe the baby was born alive, but I guess it is difficult to remain so inside a tied up plastic garbage bag.
- USArugula, on 02/06/2009, -8/+21Please cite your source claiming that Obama supports infanticide.
- theirishman16, on 02/06/2009, -3/+15Morality is hardly only possessed by those that believe in a 'god', this is simply an issue of human decency, the fact that athiests and the religious can agree on it surely says something about how important it is.
- MsAntiSunshine, on 02/06/2009, -10/+22There is
no such thing
as pro-abortion.
Pro-choice.
And stop making wild equations between a live baby and undeveloped tissue inside of another living being. - anonymousmedic, on 02/06/2009, -4/+15And, if It DID happen this way, the State is disciplining the Doctor. Should we stop doing angioplasty because one doctor out of the entire group let a patient get an infection from poor practice?
With your logic, we should still be bleeding patients and burying them in the snow when they arrest. - rheaume, on 02/06/2009, -14/+24Youll be harder pressed to find someone more into women's rights than me but this ***** ***** is *****. My son was born at 25 weeks and is totally healthy, if you cant ***** figure out that you dont want you kid before the 1 trimester is over, YOU should be killed and the baby saved.
- inactive, on 02/06/2009, -12/+22Holy *****, is it fundie day on digg?
- MicrosoftAccess, on 02/06/2009, -6/+16Why the hell are you spelling "*****" like that?
- egaonogenkiII, on 02/06/2009, -6/+16If an abortion is "botched," wouldn't the baby stay alive?
- rotundo, on 02/06/2009, -5/+15I'm pro-choice. But if you think there is a clear line between abortion and infanticide, you don't know much about the biology of human development or the mechanics of abortion.
You realize the only thing shocking about this case is that the baby came out alive. If the procedure was done correctly the exact same baby would have been killed inside the mother, then taken out. Are you really going to claim there is a huge moral difference there? Based on what?
Like I said, I'm pro-choice. But I struggle with understanding where human life becomes sacred. I have yet to come up with a clear answer. Viability is a start, but that's a moving target and viability will be the same as conception some day not too far down the road. Brain waves? Dreaming? I don't know. Good luck to us as we figure this out. - jsmith39, on 02/06/2009, -1/+10I'm confused, the article said the abortion was scheduled for the 23rd week.. that's almost 6 months.
I was under the impression abortions were illegal after 3 months because the fetus was viable at this point. - MicrosoftAccess, on 02/06/2009, -6/+15See reply above.
- anonymousmedic, on 02/06/2009, -3/+11Cubi, you really have nothing better to do than flood Dig at 4 in the morning, do you?
- rotundo, on 02/06/2009, -4/+12Not really. I'm pro-choice but I see their point. The baby was not a gamete a couple hours earlier. There were only two differences I can see between a normal abortion, and the act that is causing such outrage in this thread:
1. the baby was getting oxygen via it's lungs, as opposed to via it's placenta/umbilical cord
2. the baby was outside the mother as opposed to inside
As far as development goes, it was for all intents and purposes the same being. If you think this is murder, then you more or less have to consider that a successful abortion two hours earlier would be murder too. - dave11980, on 02/06/2009, -3/+11Obviously since she found a willing abortion clinic it not only isn't hard to find a supporter of late term abortions but it is also easy to find someone willing to perform them. This isn't a hard logical conclusion to reach here folks.
- MicrosoftAccess, on 02/06/2009, -17/+25Get off your high horse CylonsOfTheLamb. You just make some dumbass generalization and go one with your day. There are always circumstances to consider but you just judge people. I am not supporting the clinic's action towards the procedure. Just because people have differing opinions on abortion doesn't mean you should just come in here and spew your ***** justifications on the subject calling it murder. Who are you to pass judgment. This has nothing to do with being pro or against abortion or the article for that matter, rather there are always circumstances.
What if some 14yr old girl got raped by her uncle, and she couldn't stand the thought of looking at the child because of what anguish it causes her? Oh, its murder for the young girl to have an abortion, rather it is fair for her and the child to be stuck with each other. Every day she must remember that worst day of her life whenever she looks at the child. - JenniferInMO, on 02/06/2009, -9/+17Actually, he is against abortion but he supports the woman's right to make the decision about her own body.
- Murdats, on 02/06/2009, -3/+11because he an immature child who is afraid of swearing.
- astrotrain, on 02/06/2009, -7/+14Yes, all Abortion doctors, clinics, and even ***** hospitals should be charged with abortions. It should be a law in fact for the sign on the front of hospitals that read "Babies Born to date..." should also read "Babies Aborted to date....".
Its not ***** ridiculous, its fact, and people who do this crime against humans should be punished.
BTFW... I did not bury your comment, I want others to see how your socialist views are. - JigoroKano, on 02/06/2009, -0/+7Actually the fetus doesn't have to be alive for it to be an abortion. A dead fetus can sometimes trigger a spontaneous abortion (would be a miscarriage if the fetus were alive). In Jennifer's case (very sorry btw) her body didn't get the trigger to have a spontaneous abortion so the doctor could either induce an abortion, induce labor for a stillbirth, or wait out a stillbirth. D&C falls under the category of an abortion, though I can see how the language can be confusing.
- Darrelc, on 02/06/2009, -7/+14No, I'm assuming (As I'm not American), he proposes choice, that is PEOPLE THEMSELVES can choose what do do, and hopefully not be influenced by all the douchebags like you in this thread.
- JenniferInMO, on 02/06/2009, -6/+13No you won't I have worked with neglected, abused and abandoned children. There are hundreds of thousands who age out of foster care every year NEVER having been adopted. If you want to save someone, save a child who is here on Earth and suffering today.
- rotundo, on 02/06/2009, -2/+9@Murdats - as I posted above, some 12,000 abortions are performed in the US per year in the third trimester (like this one). Source:
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion ...
It's a serious concern. Maybe understanding that will help us pro-choicers to stop demonizing the pro-life movement. -
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