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229 Comments
- therealrico, on 03/08/2009, -5/+76Too me this is so lame of the business, I can understand they are paying for you to work, but this also affects your employee moral if you are monitoring every minute they aren't working. It isn't as if this is a case of someone surfing the web instead of doing their job. She is pumping milk for her baby for Christ sake, and eventually she won't have to do it any longer. But also gotta agree with the author who says the women probably should have told them before hand, of her situation, and ask to come in 15 minutes earlier, and leave 15 minutes later to make up the time.
- ChuyMatt, on 03/08/2009, -2/+48talking about this can be a major problem in an unfriendly workplace. It also helps that breast feeding is still not considered something to talk about in the general population.
There are many workplaces that actually try to make a section of their offices that can be for a number of workers with infants who can bring them when they are very young and allows mother's to pump while still working. There you have high moral and productivity rolled into one.
I'd also like to point out that if a woman does not pump they can become engorged and possibly have their breasts get infected. Each of which is horribly painful and then the woman will probably not be able to show up to work and be productive. - one1plus1one, on 03/08/2009, -13/+54Women have unique biological obligations they have to fullfill if they wish to raise their baby naturally, and that includes breast-feeding.
This company is extremely mean-spirited and reprehensible and vile for what they have done.
I supervise a rather large team of people and I would never -- ever -- fire a female member of my team who was in this situation. - Wazdinero, on 03/08/2009, -1/+32I have a few problems with this situation. Why wasn't the woman confronted earlier if the company knew about her extra breaks? There is no reference to whether or not hindered with the quantity/quality of her work? Maybe she worked harder to make up for her extra time off.
- nesagwa, on 03/08/2009, -10/+38Would you make someone clock out every time they went to the restroom for any reason?
I submit the answer is youre an *****. - phase64, on 03/08/2009, -0/+28Do you even understand the basics of pumping breastmilk? Her breasts aren't a kwiki-mart with milk on demand.
They fill up every couple of hours and she needs to express the milk and store it in the fridge. She probably has a baby sitter that feeds the child bottled breast milk. She has to keep pumping because otherwise the milk flow will eventually stop - inactive, on 03/08/2009, -1/+27What do these ***** think ***** are for?
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -10/+35I got fired for pumping man juice.
- Koushiro, on 03/08/2009, -15/+40Why do companies always assume that they own their employees?
- ScottMitchell, on 03/08/2009, -5/+29Infants typically feed every two to four hours, so the human body is accustomed to producing enough breast milk for a feeding in that time span. If a woman goes eight hours without pumping, it is very uncomfortable for her. Moreover, it sends a signal to her body that not as much milk is needed, and can lead to reduced supply.
And they store it in bottled, in the fridge. My wife has breast milk from two months ago in the freezer, for example.
Personally, I think a woman should be home to raise the child and not at a job. Most families could enjoy this arrangement with a bit of planning and smart fiscal choices. - waydee, on 03/08/2009, -9/+29It blows my mind that an employer would think they could fire someone for a reason like this.
- ehalasey, on 03/08/2009, -5/+25Do you have any idea the amount of physical pain that is involved in the production of breast milk? This woman isn't leaving to go offsite and breastfeed her kid. She's leaving to pump because it ***** hurts not to.
- RizenBB, on 03/08/2009, -5/+23Why do companies enforce their policies in such draconian cases such as this? Is the bad publicity worth the entire 10 minutes a day the woman would have been working? Hell people take 30 minute breaks to play ping-pong at my job, and as long as their work is being done no one cares..
- smemily, on 03/08/2009, -3/+21*sigh*
You clearly are completely unfamiliar with the mechanics of breasts. (bags of sand... no)
The baby is either at home or at daycare. For some time I was a working parent, and my husband stayed at home with my first two sons.
As for storing breastmilk, my pump bag had an insulated cooler compartment, though some mothers store it in the office fridge.
Pump what was needed at home? That's not how breasts work. They fill up much like your bladder does. That's like saying, why should a person pee during an 8 hour shift, why can't they pee at home? The breasts fill every few hours, and at that time you can either pump and store the milk, or they will start leaking on their own.
Was the child running out of food while she was working? That is exactly WHY she was pumping! She leaves the previous day's pumped milk with the baby so it will have something to eat, while she is at work that day. Then she pumps milk for the baby to eat the next day.
Chances are you do know many pumping mothers, if you know some who breastfeed, but you just don't know they pump. I pumped for 2 years at work and most people did not know, because I'd just take a discreet break every few hours, and return to my desk. It wasn't some big deal like I had to parade around the office mooing so everyone would know what I was up to. - ScottMitchell, on 03/08/2009, -1/+19Not only does the employer come across as being a dick, but they are likely hurting their bottom line. From http://www.llli.org/Law/Bills7.html:
"Studies indicate that women who continue to breastfeed once returning to work miss less time from work because of baby-related illnesses, and have shorter absences when they do miss work, compared with women who do not breastfeed." - internetwinner, on 03/08/2009, -2/+19I doubt they fired her for taking alot of restroom breaks. That's probably just the reason they gave. Most likely all the other employees and supervisors hated her and had to find a reason to fire her. It's not rocket science.
- e2superman, on 03/08/2009, -0/+17I agree that a prior discussion with the employer to extend her work schedule and offset for any time lost would have likely fixed this. Even just getting a heads up in advance would have been better.
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -10/+26One might say, she was keeping abreast of the situation....
- Protonz, on 03/08/2009, -9/+25They don't. That's why they let her go...
I think the real question is, why do employees, think their employer owes them a job? - e2superman, on 03/08/2009, -21/+36Taking care of a person's baby, while surely "ok" in the eyes of many, is not something a person can do "on the job". Can I go home to check on my kids every hour (if I live 5 minutes away) and charge for that time? I submit the answer is no.
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -3/+17So what you're saying is that we should all follow some arbitrary rule that says you can't have a child if you want to earn a living? Let's do that for an entire generation and see how that works out.
- BlackJackJester, on 03/08/2009, -0/+12First floor of every Cisco building has a "mothers" room. I've never been inside, but I imagine this is what it's for.
- analogkid01, on 03/08/2009, -2/+14Agreed...I sincerely hope "e2" is not and never becomes a business owner.
- Zadkiel, on 03/08/2009, -2/+13If our culture actually values its mothers and gave them paid maternity leave...we won't have this problem.
- ehalasey, on 03/08/2009, -1/+12You know how it really hurts a dairy cow not to be milked when her udders fill up?
Imagine that. Only strapped to your chest. In public. - smemily, on 03/08/2009, -1/+12e2superman, it isn't necessary to pump for 15 minutes an hour. A single 15 minute pumping session need only occur every 3-6 hours, depending on the woman.
- ScottMitchell, on 03/08/2009, -0/+10I imagine you could make an employee clock out if they used the restroom outside of their allowed breaks. If I'm not mistaken, the Federal government mandates that every worker be given at least a 15 minute break every two hours and a half hour break every after every four hours.
Of course, what you can do and what you should do are two different things. - Crass22, on 03/08/2009, -1/+10If companys were fair with their employees and allowed them to keep any sick days accumuluted that year to the next year, then people wouldnt scramble to use up their sick days.
Why should a company take away sick days you have earned but didnt use, because you werent sick in that particular year? - Ellipsys, on 03/08/2009, -1/+10As a boss, I wouldn't care so much about this. In the same way if one of my employees had a condition that made him sweat constantly, I wouldn't care if he took a couple minutes every couple of hours to change his clothes. All of this "nose to the grindstone" nitpicking has go to to stop. We all have our idiosyncrasies, extra "needs" and stuff we do that might keep us from working every second of the day, but what's the point of that?
In my industry (Government contract work) anyway, as it should apply for all office/engineering/science/white collar positions, you have goals to meet. I don't particularly want to micromanage you. If you can blow through everything by lunch time and take a two hour lunch, come back for an hour to check in with me, and go home for the day, that's fine. If you want to take a break ever 30 minutes but still get what you're supposed to get done, done by the end of the day, that's cool. Hell, if you can work more efficiently from home I need to see you to know you're putting in an effort. You get your ***** done, I don't care if you're watching porn and playing video games during your day. Now, I can see how the situation in the article could come into question in a blue collar service job - working on an assembly line, food service etc.. however, good managers should realize that even there you should have a redundant system that doesn't completely fall apart if someone takes a break. - tokie19, on 03/08/2009, -7/+16does dad have breasts that give milk? i don't think so.
- plundstedt, on 03/08/2009, -1/+9My company has a lactation room just for this purpose, though I've never seen the inside.
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -6/+14Becasue they're being paid to do a job.
- ScottMitchell, on 03/08/2009, -2/+10@AntoniaMart: It depends by what you mean by "support a family." I've known several people who returned to the workforce because they "couldn't afford" a single income. But they had DirecTV, two leased cars, went out to eat two to three times a week, bought their kids new clothes (and designer clothes, at that) rather than scrimping and buying from second hand stores or garage sales, paid a guy to mow their lawn, and so on.
In my opinion, having a parent at home with the child is important, especially in those first couple of years. More important than discretionary items like eating out, cable TV, the Internet, and so on. More drastic options include moving to a cheaper place to live.
And saying "It's simply not possible" is a cop out. If your kid was sick and dying and needed some medical procedure to save their life, would you shrug your shoulders and say, "I can't do it on this base salary?" or would you go out and find a way to pinch every penny and increase your income? While having a parent staying home with the child is not life and death, my personal opinion is that it is very important (esp. in the first few years) and that one should take a no holds barred attitude to finding solutions to get to stay home. It's obviously not as important a decision to other parents who choose to work and put their kids in daycare. I understand that there are certainly times when people have kids at an inopportune time and have no choice but to work to support them, but my point was that with proper planning and financial prudence most families would not be in this situation. - mycoplasma, on 03/08/2009, -1/+9***** this is also a typo.
*Mothers* shouldn't get special privileges.
Not that I agree with you (having to breastfeed a child doesn't sound like a special privilege to me). - Kaymc, on 03/08/2009, -1/+9This case is absolutely absurd. I had the benefit of using a closed office to pump milk when needed when I had to return to work 9 weeks after birth. I am a huge believer in breast milk over formula (& understand that not all mothers can do this). I was fortunate that my boss was a family man and understood & supported this. I was lucky I never had to find out what an infected breast felt like. By the way, engorgement is painful! My performance didn't change due to the extra breaks. I also did extra work at home when I could because I felt the time I spent pumping milk needed to be made up in some way but was never required.
And for those of you complaining about the time spent pumping milk/food for a baby, consider this - How many breaks does a smoker take? I've known some who would go outside twice an hour & smoke 2 cigarettes each time. I wonder how much work those people are actually doing? And if I knew I could get paid to take smoke breaks, I'd start now! - Biscuitz, on 03/08/2009, -3/+11Ok, I didn't realize that. My bad.
My children were formula fed. - ChildeRoland420, on 03/09/2009, -2/+10I wish I could get paid to take care of my blue balls at work.
- MisterRik, on 03/08/2009, -3/+11@ScottMitchel - you are confusing sex (physical difference) with the gender roles that we have (to a greater extent in previous generations) been trained to occupy. Technology has allowed us to throw off the shackles of the former (breast pumps for instance) and the continuing enlightenment of society is slowly removing the latter. To say that a mother is more capable of looking after an infant from an emotional perspective is insulting to both sexes. Women are not preternaturally patient with children, any more than men are incapable of controlling their base urges.
- xaeon, on 03/08/2009, -2/+10Unfortunately, she made a bit of a tit of herself.
- mycoplasma, on 03/08/2009, -0/+7"Do you even understand the basics of pumping breastmilk?"
This is digg. 97% of the people here are eternal virgins. - bluesparks, on 03/08/2009, -3/+10"Now, as a conservative, I usually support the right of businesses to establish their own workplace policies. But I don't defend a company's dumb policies..."
Wow! I let people do what they want until it crosses some subjective line - and I get to decide where the line is!
YES, this company's been utterly moronic. YES, breast-feeding is not an illness or medical condition. YES, the state Supreme Court should uphold this ruling. It's not the court's job to make the law. But:
YES, the state/federal legislature, whatever's in question should respond to the ridiculousness of this situation and alter its law to allow things like this. - MisterRik, on 03/08/2009, -6/+13Oh, so close to digging you up, and then came your last paragraph. Why can Dad not be at home looking after the infant?
- DarknessGP, on 03/08/2009, -2/+9legally, most can fire an employee for any reason, and even not have to supply a reason.
- MacEnvy, on 03/09/2009, -2/+9Most people have what's called "empathy", and in addition are not total douches.
- ashrafneo, on 03/08/2009, -0/+6thats a really good story i loved the punch line.
- shibainu, on 03/08/2009, -2/+8http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -2/+8We've only heard one side of the story so far.
- smemily, on 03/09/2009, -0/+6She wasn't asking for 15 minutes every hour. Pumping moms only need 15 minutes every 3-6 hours, which is less than what's mandated by law anyhow.
- darknecross, on 03/08/2009, -4/+10The problem is the woman's "do-and-explain-later" approach, which just doesn't work in the business world. I'm sure if she explained upfront that she needed the breaks, her boss would've understood. If she just randomly disappears every day at 10am, not so responsible.
- inactive, on 03/08/2009, -7/+13We had one built, they removed the equivalent of 4 cubicles to build the gold plated milking barn. In the 10 years I was there, it was used once. For elicit sex.
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