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Faith-healing parents charged in baby's death

msnbc.msn.com — A couple whose church preaches against medical care are facing criminal charges after their young daughter died of an infection that authorities said went untreated.

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  • davecskul, on 04/02/2008, -4/+40This is babies death was so unnecessary.
    • susn, on 04/02/2008, -2/+12so was the 'is' in your sentance
      • SPRFRKR, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3While we are at it, shouldn't "babies" be singular possessive? e.g. "baby's".
      • qwertycopter, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3So were the letter "a" in the last word of your reply.
        • feebie, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3So *was* the letter "a" in the last word of your reply.
    • KamikazeeDriver, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2They didn't have faith the size of a mustard seed, obviously.
    • doctorgrim, on 04/02/2008, -0/+8Well, at least is proves once again that RELIGION > SCIENCE = dirtnap...

      Darwin at work.
    • IdevInull, on 04/02/2008, -9/+1What is the crime? If they sought medical 'treatment' she may have died as well.
      • doebob11, on 04/02/2008, -0/+4Why look both ways before crossing the street? You might get hit by a car anyway.
  • weeeezzll, on 04/02/2008, -0/+62If you are not going to do everything in your power to care for your children then you should not have them.
    • CrazyDave303, on 04/02/2008, -12/+2I'm not for what they did,,, but they though they where doing every thing in their power. Now it can be argued they did not think all that well.
      • NSResponder, on 04/02/2008, -3/+7Killing their child by offering her up as a human sacrifice was obviously in their power. Christians in particular should be calling for their punishment, because Christian theology holds that Jesus was the last sacrifice.

        -jcr
    • SuperWinner, on 04/02/2008, -1/+4Unfortunately while in prison, these parents are even more likely to find jeebus, sad...
    • stuffradio, on 04/02/2008, -0/+5Even though I'm a Christian, I find it ridiculous that they didn't take the baby to a hospital first THEN pray.
  • putergirl, on 04/02/2008, -0/+28The sad part of this is that she had to die for anyone to do anything. They did not make their beliefs a secret, this was pure apathy. Sad.
    • Zipper114, on 04/02/2008, -0/+8These people should pray instead of getting legal council. Then they should pray instead of defending themselves at trial. Then they should pray instead of fending off predators in prison.
      However, I suspect they'll be real hypocrites when it comes to their own selfish self-interests.
      I can't believe people can still be this superstitious and stupid.
      • Lyk4n, on 04/02/2008, -2/+3It's our fault they are this way. We have to make everyone's beliefs stand up to critical thought or ostracize it until the idea dies. A live and let live policy is not going to work anymore.
        • Niightwitch, on 04/02/2008, -1/+4It's not our fault these people did this crazy *****....it's THEIR fault. With some people, you can ostracize them all you want and it won't change their beliefs one iota. In any case, I'm tired of *society* being blamed for what some insane individual decides to do.
          • Lyk4n, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3That might be the case if this didn't happen often, but it does. It's our fault we let them get this far into their delusion. This should have been stopped in the 50's.. Damn McCarthy..
  • theNazz, on 04/02/2008, -2/+79If faith healing worked, we would not need a health care plan. I can't believe this is the 21st Century...
    • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -52/+4And if health care plans worked, we wouldn't need graveyards.

      What kind of logic is this?

      Oh yeah... "anecdotal".
      • StarlessKnight, on 04/02/2008, -2/+24One hundred percent of people who drink water die. Your "anecdote"/analogy is flawed. Pull out the case studies where faith healing worked, it'll make a stronger argument.
      • Azerael, on 04/02/2008, -3/+19Woah, you mean I could be immortal if I had proper healthcare?
      • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -27/+0StarlessKnight:

        I'll do one better. I'll pull out a peer-reviewed study where faith works in the worst possible medical scenario. Thing is, you define "worked" as what gives a particular outcome in the context you believe in--objectively, your usage is tautological, and irrelevant to the context at hand. Simply, you don't know whether it "worked", because you don't know what "worked" is.

        Anyway, here you go: http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLance ...
        • StarlessKnight, on 04/02/2008, -0/+15That study concerns Near Death Experiences, not Faith Based Healing. No where is the word "Faith" mentioned. They do, however, talk a lot about CPR, which would not be Faith Based. If you suffered a Heart Attack and someone prayed over you and lived, no defib, no CPR, that would be, arguably, Faith Based. Now, repeat this exercise a few more times. Spontaneous recovery from a Heart Attack with no medical intervention--that would constitute "worked."

          Now waking from a coma after being considered Brain Dead after being prayed over that could also be worked, that could also be a thankful fluke. Unfortunately faith based healing really would require a very large case study to verify anything.
          • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -19/+0So, then, how many times would you have to know of, say, some religious celebrity praying and causing recovery from a coma, in a patient untreatable by the medical establishment, before you'd acknowledge "worked"? I'm guessing, N, where N is one more than provided. Because, simply, you have little interest in pursuing all methods that could help, because you actually have no interest in helping, and your motivational factors for this discussion are entirely discrete from that. The specifics, someday, we'll have to "study".
          • Lyk4n, on 04/02/2008, -0/+4@Empiric: About as many times as real medical procedures work.
        • SuperWinner, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1There is always one religious nut on these forums who takes the dig down hits for his team... where is spaza by the way?
      • LBobRife, on 04/02/2008, -0/+19Medicine does not pretend to make people immortal. It only tries to make their health better and their life longer. Your analogy is seriously flawed.
        • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -16/+0No, it's quite accurate, because like you don't want to define "worked" in simplistic terms, neither do I. The goal of faith is to improve the lives of the general community to which it applies, acknowledging that physical death is unavoidable. The wider repercussions of the timing in a particular case (however doggedly sought as examples out of our 6 billion population, by people who would do nothing to help personally, and think it isn't obvious who they're actually concerned about) is something we aren't really cognitively qualified to determine.
          • KibibyteBrain, on 04/02/2008, -0/+12Even if faith were shown to be scientifically effective, which it has not been, it would still not follow that therefore medical treatment should not be used to hedge the bet. Just because a treatment is effective does not imply 100% efficiency or effectiveness, and almost no treatment is 100% perfect. Basically, seeing a doctor should not impact your ability to pray too, if you think that can help.
      • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -20/+0People, time for me to get back to sleep. I really would like to see higher numbers on how many I'll inevitably own, when I get up. You know what to click.
      • susn, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1haha yeah because no-one dies from old age
      • maexus, on 04/06/2008, -0/+1Do you know that you're an idiot and accept it or are you completely oblivious to the fact?
    • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -0/+4There are plenty of people who believe in the power of prayer to bring along answers. Even when many of us pray for healing, the things that generally fall into that category are: financial aid, new treatments, better doctors and more effective meds.
      I think the majority of people who pray for healing genuinely believe that God can miraculously heal. But who, when praying for their hunger to go away, would pass up food while waiting for the sustenance to magically enter their bodies on it's own? .....oh yeah, those people.
  • AshamedAmerican, on 04/02/2008, -7/+26Good.
  • pentak, on 04/02/2008, -6/+12Pray for them :)
  • CrackIsWack, on 04/02/2008, -3/+32It's about god damn time these people get charged. And yes, "these people." And yes, pun fully intended.
  • dcollins, on 04/02/2008, -5/+40Sick and twisted, yes, but the gene pool of these two creationists was wiped out by Darwinism. Can this be considered irony?
    • empiric, on 04/02/2008, -14/+0Only if you grant me appreciation of the irony that you'll inescapably do the same. Difference being, your elimination is metaphysically absolute. And no, this is not contingent on whether this comment is "Dugg".
    • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -0/+6Their daughter wasn't a creationist, and she's the one who died.
      The belief in creationism isn't inherited. This is a horrible and needless death. It's only good, if any good, is in the form of a cautionary tale.
      • WRXFiles, on 04/02/2008, -0/+7No the belief is not inherited, but children are quite often indoctrinated into a religious set of beliefs before they have learned critical reasoning skills that would protect them from such drivel
        • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Yes.
          but this can't be said for certain about her, she's dead. On the 'brighter side she's won't have to worry about being lied to now. *sarcasm*
          It's a BAD comparison, but I can't think of a better, but that's very remotely like saying it's "okay to kill Arabs because they'll grow up to hate us anyway."
          As per people buying into great lies, I think that's 90% or more of people walking around, perhaps even you and I are among them?
      • thanakar, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2God created doctor's for a reason, use em!
        • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1... and here I thought people just went to medical school. Maybe that was the ninth day?
          Whatever would've gotten their daughter help I suppose.
    • Clumber, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1blah blah blah blah... dcollin asked if it is irony. Framed as s/he framed it, I would venture yes. More so, anyhow, than ten-thousand spoons when all you need is a knife.
      • Niightwitch, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1You can turn a spoon on its side and use the edge like a knife. It doesn't work as well tho.
  • blergle, on 04/02/2008, -2/+32"Laws passed in the 1990s struck down legal shields for faith-healing parents after the deaths of several children whose parents were members of the fundamentalist church."

    So basically until relatively recently they would have been legally protected against prosecution from effectively murdering their children through neglect.

    I thought America was supposed to be civilised?
    • forgiste, on 04/02/2008, -1/+18Who ever said that?
    • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -5/+10You must have missed the part where the U.S. government send kids to kill arabs they don't know, because someone else told them to. Lucky you.
      But, America is not it's government, as it is not idiotic faith healers. America is civilized and America is not civilized depends on to whom you're referring.
      • Kaitsu, on 04/02/2008, -4/+4Kids who took the job voluntarily for money.
        • mmortal03, on 04/02/2008, -1/+6People wouldn't have this problem with them going over there if the cause was the right one.
          • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -2/+1I think the 'right causes' to shoot people you don't know just because someone else tells you to, aren't as plentiful as you might infer. Whether or not people have a problem with It I couldn't say. In civilized society this is avoided at if all possible. The current instance was not so much avoided as pursued. This is a problem.
          • mmortal03, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2Regarding "people having a problem", there are, as you may know, many Americans who have a big problem with our soldiers going over to Iraq and killing people. Yes, "just because someone else tells you to" is not a good reason, and I'm not saying it is. People should always think for themselves and question authority, basing their decisions on the evidence. While there is always going to have to be some trust in the authorities' evidence, the Iraq war is not a good example of when you should trust their evidence. And the evidence didn't even matter then, as their philosophical reasoning for going to war there was wrong.
        • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -1/+3It's okay to make kids shoot people they don't know for money as long as you don't draft them and pay them.
          Drafts are bad, I think that's where our agreement ends.
    • KMye, on 04/02/2008, -1/+4(fully ready to be dugg down into oblivion for this one)
      I think this situation is disgusting, and to make it clear, I think organized religion in general is a blight on this earth, and that only-marginally-organized-religions, like the church/cult this family belong to are even worse on an individual basis, but I don't see how this decision by the parents isn't constitutionally protected under the first amendment. It seems to me the Oregon laws (and I'm an Oregonian) here are unconstitutional. Can anyone explain to me how I'm mistaken?
      • Dawnrazor, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2Because the courts have held that in some cases public safety and/or morality are more important.

        One obvious example would be somebody wanting to revive an old religion that called for human sacrifice.
        • Myztry, on 04/02/2008, -0/+21. Where do I sign up.
          2. How do I get hold of George Bush?
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+4The Neumann's, of the recent incident in which their daughter died of untreated diabeties due to their decision to reject medical treatment in favor of prayer, are still protected - they live in Wisconsin, where the laws that protect parents from persecution for denying medical treatment for religious reasons are still in effect. A lot of states have those laws - the federal DHEW had a director back in the 70's who put in a policy of cutting off all federal child-protection funds to states that didn't pass what he would have called a 'religious freedom protection' law. States had little choice but to comply. The DHEW dropped the policy decades ago, and since then some states have repealed those laws - but not all.
    • jgzman, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1In America we are also supposed to respect people's religion. Clearly, this is a case where exceptions should be made, but have you ever tried to explain the obvious to a bureaucrat?
      • Clumber, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1no... we are supposed to not *make decisions based upon* religion. (crappy sentence structure, I agree. Only day 2 of starting a 4/10 schedule... brain not fully engaged...z.zzzz..... apology to the English teachers. I was edumacated better.)
      • Lyk4n, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Respecting someone's religion is what got this girl killed in the first place. Freethinkers need to confront these foolish and superstitious ideas and subject them to critical thought until they wither away.
    • thanakar, on 04/02/2008, -7/+3In some states its even legal to kill your children before they are even born.
      • trougnouf, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3morron
      • Lyk4n, on 04/02/2008, -0/+5Telling me a zygote is a human is like saying an egg is a chicken..
        • thanakar, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1but a baby that is partially born than has its spinal cord severed in a partial birth abortion isn't human?
      • blergle, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Out of interest, if you could have sex with someone but don't, are you a murderer?
  • steveoco, on 04/02/2008, -4/+18Score one for satan!
    • SuperWinner, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Thank you for not adding validity to the illusionary beings by capitalizing the first letter in their names.
      god, jeebus, satan, zeus, ra the sun god, figments of peoples fevered minds do not ever deserve to be capitalized.
  • Drogoganor, on 04/02/2008, -2/+23See, people in America complain about Christians being victimized, but where is the admonition for this kind of stuff? There were two dozen Christians in the censorship thread, defending some grandstanding little snob of a kid, but where are they for this thread?
    • matx, on 04/02/2008, -1/+8Here, but I'm not defending some one who killed their kid when it could have been prevented. The Bible doesn't say that we can't go and see a doctor.
    • Metalcard, on 04/02/2008, -3/+6This Church has lost it way. They have become a cult and cant be put on the same level as decent Christian folk.
      • Myztry, on 04/02/2008, -1/+5Even as an Atheist, I believe in the ideology of having a spiritual focus.
        But if between you and your spiritual focus, there exists an Institution, then it's is not your deity that you worship, but the Institution created by mere mortals.
        Indeed, if you need to be taught faith, through a Bible, Church or any other means, then you are not following your faith. You are merely exercising taught behavior.
      • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -2/+1Yeah...some parents are ridiculous faith healers....therefore the whole chruch has lost it's way. It never ceases to amaze me how your COMPLETELY rational mind who believes nothing unless it's fact can still make terrible generalizations like this.
        • Myztry, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1It's a good thing The Church lost their way, or they'd still be committing Genocide by burning people of different faith at the stake.
          The Germans took a very similar approach with the Jews but thankfully they lost that way. Doesn't mean we should accept Nazism back into society though.
      • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1I completely apologize Metalcard. I really read your post wrong and I was in a ranting mood. You didn't deserve that! Sorry my friend!
    • kungfuboi, on 04/02/2008, -1/+5These people are insane, there's a reason God didn't kill Fleming for inventing penicillin.
      • Gathalimay, on 04/02/2008, -3/+6'cause he doesn't exist?
      • absurdist, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Fleming didn't invent penicillin. Do your homework. He capitalized on a lot of other people's work, in much the same way Edison did.
    • AbsurdParadox, on 04/02/2008, -3/+3Great generalization of an entire culture there, bud. Stop thinking in collectivized groups.
    • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -2/+1What makes you think that we're not outraged, upset and embarrassed? What do you expect us to do in situations like this? Just come into the thread and say "hey guys, all this God stuff was really ridiculous. Sorry about believing it." All because two psychopaths weren't using the God-given means to bolster their childs health?
      It's the same as asking you to apologize for what you believe every time an atheist commits some sort of fraud. But no, I don't expect that of you. Frankly, I expect you to lay low for a while since it's terribly embarrassing to have someone proclaim the same beliefs as you but act like such an idiot.
      • tony23, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1I would expect someone with integrity to denounce them vocally - to LOUDLY proclaim that these people DO NOT represent your beliefs. "Laying low" legitimizes their actions.
    • belebih, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1At least some of them are /facepalming with the rest of us. But not surprisingly others are in here actually going off about religious intolerance. I guess no one can exercise their god-given right to let their baby die anymore huh? Idiots.
      • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1Of course there are people like that in here. Just like there would be some skin-heads in on an article about killing other races. There's always going to be a fringe group. But what many people on this story are attempting to do is equate the fringe with the majority. You might as well take the people genuinely concerned with illegal immigration and lump them in with the skin-heads or any situation of the same kind.
  • Moohaman, on 04/02/2008, -1/+5Thank God or Mr.Spaghetti or just the founding fathers for the chance to live in a country where people have the freedom to practice religion.
    • adventurer57, on 04/02/2008, -2/+0This couple were practicing their Faith in God and now they are being punished.What kind of freedom is that?
      • Amric, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3I am practicing my Faith in Satan by slicing babys heads off, drinking their blood and performing rites with their entrails and now I am being punished. What kind of freedom is that?
        Is the /sarcasm tag really nessessary in this case? Probably... this is digg after all.
        • sndream, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Oh, that explain why Church condemn the use of condom - To maximizes the supply of baby blood.
          I am totally against this, but what can I do. Last time I check, The freedom of religion don't protect those not believe in religion.
      • Moohaman, on 04/18/2008, -0/+0I would rather you be able to worship Satan and sacrifice babies than be put in jail for reading the Bible or Qu'Ran or any other religious scripture
  • jmpeagle, on 04/02/2008, -1/+33i remember from the original article that the woman was quoted by the police chief that her daughter could still be resurrected so everyone is fussing over nothing. I don't know if this is religion's fault or if they are literally mentally ill.
    • 47f0, on 04/02/2008, -0/+17Close - but that was a quote from the parents who let their 11-year-old daughter die of diabetes - equal nutcakes, but two different stories.
    • pentak, on 04/02/2008, -2/+15Religious people are mentally ill and should be treated as such
      • RobotCitizen, on 04/02/2008, -1/+9Religion demonstrates that you don't have to be born with mental illness. It can also be induced in an otherwise healthy brain, given the right psychological pressures, which basically describes religious indoctrination.
      • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1You know, the first step to any ethnic cleansing and horrific historical events like the holocaust is to convince a population that another group of people are less than human.
        You probably sit in your house everyday thinking about how intolerant the world is towards every people group...except you of course, you're bigotry is justified!
    • MoofTheStoof, on 04/02/2008, -3/+12Religion by no means precludes mental illness. Some would say the two are, in fact, irrevocably linked.
    • MoofTheStoof, on 04/02/2008, -9/+4Religion by no means precludes mental illness. Some would say that they are, indeed, irrevocably linked.
      • MoofTheStoof, on 04/02/2008, -3/+2accidentally duped myself when I thought a closed window prevented the first post - digg down
    • NSResponder, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2Yeah, they're nuts. It's the job of the court and the jury to decide if they should spend the rest of their lives in jail or the looney bin.

      -jcr
      • Myztry, on 04/02/2008, -0/+4They should be put into an Asylum until they are able to comprehend reality. THEN they should serve there full time in jail, as they are now in a state to appreciate the consequences.
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Wrong incident. You are thinking of the Neumann family, who lost a child to untreated diabeties. These are a different family altogether, and in a different state. The Neumanns are in Wisconsin, where state laws explicitly say that denying a child medical treatment for religious reasons cannot be regarded as abuse or neglect.
  • Osirus1156, on 04/02/2008, -1/+15Score one for common sense.
    • intense321, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." -Albert Einstein.
  • billlyboobs34, on 04/02/2008, -7/+18Religious people (of all religions) piss me off...
    • philhatesyou, on 04/02/2008, -7/+5It's not the religious that are the problem, it's the religious whackos that are.
      • zen4444, on 04/02/2008, -1/+5There are no other kinds.
        • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -2/+1Yeah, I'm sure you've never met a religious person who wasn't insane. Look, we all know that isn't true, so by saying it, the only thing you communicate is that you lie. And since your claim to being right is in the idea that you only believe the truth and what can be called "fact", it seems kind of odd that you would make one up that has no grounds.....
          Unless of course you aren't as enlightened as you think you are....oh, there goes my crazy talk again.
          • zen4444, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1Religious peoples' beliefs are based on nonsensical fairy tales. Any action which results from said fairy tales are by definition crazy! So no I'm not a liar, and am, in fact, glad that there are no voices in my head to guide my actions. They must have been raising hell in your head with your insane reply. Get an exorcist quick! I know where you can find some pigs.
        • philhatesyou, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2Ahh, good ole tolerant digg!
    • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -2/+2All day long you tell religious people to be completely tolerant of everything around them....and in the same breath you show no tolerance for them. For being the "enlightened ones" who should be taking the first step in diplomacy....you sure can be hypocritical.
  • hexr, on 04/02/2008, -6/+6Thank god something like this has finally happened.
  • Thisistooboring, on 04/02/2008, -4/+10*****' JUSTICE.
    • userperson, on 04/02/2008, -1/+4No justice would have been the parents dying.
    • adventurer57, on 04/02/2008, -4/+1If you are so bored to the point of using that stupid language, go somewhere else.Clean up your mouth before it is taken from you.
      • zen4444, on 04/02/2008, -1/+3Ok MOM!
      • Imagin8, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2adventurer57

        If you can't handle that language you should Enable the digg Profanity Filter, in your preferences...
      • Thisistooboring, on 04/07/2008, -0/+3Go ***** a goat you ***** licking panty sniffer.
      • MisterFreeze, on 04/11/2008, -0/+2I'll clean up my language when you admit that taking children to church is a form of child abuse.
  • 47f0, on 04/02/2008, -1/+30I see zero difference between this case, the parents who let their 11-year-old daughter die of diabetes, and the woman who drowned her kids to "save them". We have an obligation to protect children from insane people, and calling your insanity "faith" just doesn't cut it.
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Crucial difference. These ones are persecutable. The ones who let their daughter die are in a state which has laws to prevent persecution, so no changes will be bought against them.
  • Updesh, on 04/02/2008, -27/+1Okay so where do you draw the line, because as a vegetarian and a non-drinker, I think parents encouraging their kids to eat hormone and antibiotic meat is pretty much the same thing and encouraging them to drink (please spare me the "its good for you" stuff) could lead to their early deaths - as children they don't have a fully developed sense of what is and is not good for them. And what about goign on holiday or buying yourself a new TV when you could be paying for a better education for them and your contribution to global warming etc. Whilst I agree this is a terrible act, before we all jump on those high horses, we might want to look at just how good as parents we actually are and what our actions, directly or indirectly contribute to the shorter life-span of our kids
    • StarlessKnight, on 04/02/2008, -0/+15The hormone and antibiotic meat isn't poisonous; its nutritional value may be questionable, but as part of a balanced diet it probably won't kill you. An infection, left unchecked, in a society with access to medical attention and medicine that can likely contain and eliminate that harmful, deadly condition is slightly different.
    • LiLBiGD1Ck, on 04/02/2008, -1/+14Sort of like the vegan parents who killed their baby by putting it on a vegan diet?
    • LBobRife, on 04/02/2008, -0/+8Eating hormones and antibiotic meat is not going to kill a kid. I do not know the science, but there are so many factors to "shortening a lifespan" as well as the uncertainty of the person even being able to reach a "natural death" that you cannot reasonably charge a parents with anything for not always doing what is in the best interest of the child. Education is also a luxury, especially a college one. It is not a necessity to live. Negligence causing death. I'd say that is a pretty clear line. In fact, the law has it as Manslaughter 2 (in my state). It's 1 if it can be considered Recklessness.
    • Damovisa, on 04/02/2008, -3/+3I think that bringing your children up in a city where there are cars and pollution is exactly the same as shooting them in the neck.

      /sarcasm
    • noahgelman, on 04/02/2008, -1/+4I dont have a kids, i havent had sex, thats why Im on Digg
    • KMye, on 04/02/2008, -3/+3I agree with Updesh's comment in a very narrow legal context, which is how I think you have to look at this. We still allow parents/doctors to genitally mutilate about half of the males born in this country everyday on largely religious grounds. J-Witnesses are legally allowed to refuse medical treatment for themselves and their children. Is it possible to arbitrarily draw a line somewhere while abiding by the 1st amendment?
    • brufleth, on 04/02/2008, -1/+5Odd since parents putting their kids on a vegan diet usually does more harm than good.

      But seriously, if a parent kills their child because they would not seek out readily available goods or services to prevent the death then they are guilty of killing their child. This could mean getting some antibiotics or getting them a source of amino acids (in the case of raising the kid as a vegan).
  • HeavySausage, on 04/02/2008, -1/+10I am sure they will put the blame on satan sooner or later. Poor guy.
    • JanYpe, on 04/02/2008, -0/+8You just can't catch a break as the prince of darkness these days.
      • Matri, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1Satan 4 President!

        What? He can't possibly do any worse!
    • billlyboobs34, on 04/02/2008, -0/+8Nobody ever cuts Satan any slack... He's just very misunderstood. All he ever wanted to do was better the human race by letting us know the difference between right and wrong. Besides how can we really disobey god if humans didn't know it was wrong to do so before the act. It makes no sense!
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Possible. But I know religious belief quite well, and I am guessing they will opt instead for either 'God's mysterious ways' or 'Our faith was too weak.' Satan is the third-ranking most likely excuse.
  • ZombieSociety, on 04/02/2008, -0/+14Good, now get those morons whose 11-year-old died, too. If anything, get them because the mother still believes her daughter is going to come back as a zombie.
    • adventurer57, on 04/02/2008, -3/+0People who don't know about certain things should research before running off at the mouth.
  • D14852001neko, on 04/02/2008, -3/+11Where is you God now?!
    • Azerael, on 04/02/2008, -1/+6Wherever it is where fictional characters hang out. Hammerspace, perhaps?
    • StarlessKnight, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2At Burger King?
    • susn, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3where is your R now?
    • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -4/+1Right where he's always been. Because a couple of nut jobs abuse their daughter in the name of faith doesn't mean anything. It just means that they are idiots.
      By the way...that's a really catchy phrase. I wanna say that I've heard it all over the place....but I'm sure you made it up. You wouldn't be so unoriginal.
    • SuperWinner, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Thor bitches, Thor.
  • ClevelandBrown, on 04/02/2008, -3/+6She dances with noodles now.
  • camino262, on 04/02/2008, -3/+5These people are morons and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent that the law will allow. I think prayer is good for raising awareness of a situation, and dealing with the stress associated with what you are praying for. However science must be trusted - especially antibiotics! Antibiotics have been proven to work. This makes me so angry! I have a one year old and I would hate for him to die because I was an idiot. I don't think I could live with myself.
  • wifigod, on 04/02/2008, -5/+2Our prayers are with them, hopefully they won't get charged..........not.
  • SteelCurtain08, on 04/02/2008, -0/+9As much as I cannot stand it that people have such blind faith in this way, I support anyone's right to refuse medical help for any ailment big or small. It's their loss, really.

    But it is another thing to subject someone else to those beliefs. That child never had the chance to grow old enough to make a choice on religion either way, and to subject any child to this is abuse and, in my opinion, homicide. They should be prosecuted.
    I cannot understand how any parent can see the declining condition of their own child and refuse medical counsel. Unbelievable.
  • GregIsLegend, on 04/02/2008, -0/+6Good, they should be infected and given no medical attention.
  • N256, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2Thank God.
  • BigRivy, on 04/02/2008, -2/+2I remember a case like this back in the early 90s where a girl's death could have been prevented by a few Tylenol. If the government is justified in outlawing polygamy, how has it not done the same with fatal child neglect?
    • secrity, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2I am afraid that I don't understand how a few Tylenol could have prevented a death, do you have a link?
      • Niightwitch, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1The person had a killer headache.
  • Wynner3, on 04/02/2008, -3/+20The stupidity of people that believe in religion is the reason why I'm an atheist. Religion is by far the biggest scam and probably the second most money making scam too. The biggest money making scam is the death industry. They charge way too much for caskets, burial grounds, etc...
    • cababika799, on 04/02/2008, -4/+4Congrats on being an atheist. Way to lump all of religion in with the fringe psychopaths! Thats a really good theory based on solid evidence...you know considering that the vast majority of Christians are normal, intelligent and productive people.
      It's simply stunning how everyone who has a differing opinion about the world must prove it with undeniable facts....except you guys when you attack religion. Then you can make up whatever you want. Way to not be a hypocrite!
      • Edrick, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1It's perfectly true that moderate and liberal theists, and even fundamentalists, are otherwise perfectly sane and reasonable people, but there's no doubt that they've partitioned a part of their brain wherein they store their dogma and their belief's taken on insufficient evidence. These belief's are not immune to criticism nor should they be in the honest discourse of the human conversation.
    • thanakar, on 04/02/2008, -2/+3Apparently you've not heard of the biggest scam of all..the government
  • motophiliac, on 04/02/2008, -15/+2As a physicalist I believe it's a shame that the girl's life was thrown away for religious reasons.
    However, from two points of view, this should have gone unpunished.

    From the religious side, it's the parent's choice. That should be respected, as difficult as that may be for the rest of us to comprehend.
    Fromt the physicalist side, the parents are effectively removing their genetic material from future generations.

    So, for both reasons and individually and socially, they should have been left alone. Even if for no other reason, they've just lost a child. That's got to be harsh enough without punishing them further. Let them be their own judges.
    • Gathalimay, on 04/02/2008, -1/+9No, they should not have.

      It's my choice to kill someone, so it should be respected right???
      Wrong. Your logic fails.
    • Drogoganor, on 04/02/2008, -1/+10Pseudo-philosophical *****.
    • susn, on 04/02/2008, -0/+7i'm guessing that you're trying to sound intelligent. you just sound retarded.
    • partrow, on 04/02/2008, -0/+7What the hell is a "physicalist"? How funny! Maybe I am a moribundist!
    • SuperWinner, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2motophiliac, its my choice to tell you your a ***** *****.
  • TheSlinky, on 04/02/2008, -12/+1This is bullcrap, the parents shouldn't have to pay, it's not their fault. It's the church that needs to be looked into.
    • NSResponder, on 04/02/2008, -1/+6That "we were just following orders" defense hasn't been accepted in civilized countries since the Nuremburg trials.

      -jcr
    • partrow, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2Right, parents are never at fault or responsible for their children, are they? Always blame your travails on outside influences and factors, because we are never responsible for ourselves.
      • TheSlinky, on 04/03/2008, -0/+0This is religion though, if you were brought up to believe something or to behave that way and it somehow causes something unfortunate to happen to someone you can't really say it's your fault can you?

        Say hypothetically you were brought up to believe that a certain medicine will cure your son of an illness, and of course fully believing in that particular medication you administer it to your child thinking it will cure him. It backfires and ends up killing him and you're put in jail for giving your son what you thought was best for him, not knowing that it was in fact endangering his life. Is it still really your fault?
  • Berkana, on 04/02/2008, -2/+6Shame on these parents. The same charges should be brought on CoS for all their member's deaths related to with held psychiatric care.
  • smashingmonkey, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2At least natural selection isn't totally dead.
  • Scheissen, on 04/02/2008, -9/+1Did the parents cause the infection? did the church cause it?

    So just because something "could have been" prevented against nature then that means you can get charged with murder? this is just natural selection.

    One less religious would-be nut in the world.
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Not murder. The charges are manslaughter and criminal mistreatment. Completly different. They will probably get off quite lightly - as there was no ill-intent and they pose no danger to anyone else, the judge is likely to give them the minimum sentence possible. They dont have any other children, but if they did those would likely be taken into care for their own protection. Expect a few years in jail. Contrast with murder, for which a life sentence would be likely, and in some states death a possibility.
  • willywong, on 04/02/2008, -0/+14Are they going to hire a lawyer or are they just going to pray their way through this one too?
    • Suricou, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Someone needs to contact them and urge them to pray :>
  • partrow, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2Nice, folks! What are you going to do for an encore? Did your faith partners (cult members) enjoy seeing and hearing her suffer as the infection ate away at her?
  • sndream, on 04/02/2008, -2/+2This is really bizarre. But I still think a religion that's killing their own children killed are much better than a religion that's killing other people's children.
    But then again, I have been proofing wrong on such topic with a conniving threat of beheading me.
  • partrow, on 04/02/2008, -1/+3I say culture the bacteria and transfer it to each of the parents, so they can experience what their daughter did. Deny them any medical care (wouldn't want to treat them with anything except FAITH now, would we) and watch them get eaten away and suffer like their daughter. Unless, of course, their faith saves them. We don't need people like this around to pollute the gene pool anyway. Give them their injections today! Maybe even a webcam on them 24/7 so the world can watch them as their faith takes its effect . . .
  • starbelfire, on 04/02/2008, -0/+2Can we say negligence!!
  • reuscel, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3If prayer were actually effective in changing anything, it would have been outlawed years ago.
  • belebih, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3FTA: "The Worthingtons also lost a baby boy in 2001, but an investigation was closed after family members told police the child was stillborn. Several other Followers of Christ children have also been stillborn or died during home births in recent years, and none of the deaths resulted in criminal charges, authorities have said."

    It's like these people are trying to go backwards in time while the rest of us are trying to move forward, and their kids are the ones that have to pay the price for their ignorance. And then legal hands are tied for fear of infringing on their right to be loonies. It’s pretty damn sad.
  • aduric, on 04/02/2008, -1/+1I say their church should share the blame. These people are just following what the church told them. This is pretty much a result of a much bigger problem.
    • partrow, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1Yeah, not the parents' fault, right? Never the parents' fault. They certainly don't have the responsibility for their child's welfare now, do they? There is always some other person or entity to blame. This is the same line that the Nazis gave as excuses, and we are tired of hearing it. Either take responsibility for your children or don't have them!
  • cfuse, on 04/02/2008, -1/+2They really should be charged with murder, not manslaughter.
  • RabidFurby, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3Makes me extremely happy these people were charged. Makes me very sad a child had to die.
  • ickybod, on 04/02/2008, -0/+3I'm sure through all their time in jail they'll just think god is testing their faith.
  • VinnieDaMac, on 04/02/2008, -0/+1You kinda have to charge them otherwise this could potentially open up a loophole that would allowed parents to murder their children and blame it on their "faith."
  • cotne007, on 04/03/2008, -1/+0Darwinism at work
  • Meowbiusfox, on 04/03/2008, -0/+1Levy charges at the Pastor while you are at it.
    I don't subscribe to religion,but as an elder of their community,the
    pastor should have been the one to talk some sense into them.

    But then again,Birds of a feather..
  • nydwarf, on 04/03/2008, -1/+1I think death by Crucifixion would be apro pos...
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