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- rororoyourboat, on 12/04/2008, -2/+21Vaccines don't cause autism. Anyone who understands the scientific methods knows that 'motherly instinct' is unscientific and cannot be enough to prove that vaccines cause autism. I don't know if it is statistically significant if 9 autistic kids from a group of 632 kids where half have epileptic mothers. As long as Oprah and Jenny McCarthy use their motherly instincts to sway parents away from vaccinating their kids, our country will always be in danger due to the lack of herd immunity (ie. If enough people are vaccinated, a preventable disease cannot take us by surprise). Please note that the doctor who was researching this said: “Women shouldn’t suddenly stop taking their medication because they read this study".
JohnDo, you're an idiot. - AboveandBeyond, on 12/04/2008, -2/+16OMG DID YOU SAY NINE CHILDREN? NINE????????? THIS SAMPLE IS SOOOO HUGE, THIS MUST BE TRUE!!!!
- Murdats, on 12/04/2008, -2/+14apparently not as its been repeatedly proven there is 0 link between vaccines and autism
there is however a strong link between not getting vaccines and putting yourself, your family and your society in danger of a painful death - ricker2005, on 12/04/2008, -3/+15Watch me accurately predict the future based on the reaction of idiots in the vaccine/autism issue.
1) People read this, ignore the part about it being preliminary and needing confirmation, and stop talking the drugs because "they cause autism".
2) Future studies demonstrate that these drugs are not the cause of autism.
3) Idiots ignore these new studies because some higher profile idiot (let's call her Jenny M. for now) decides she knows more than doctors and scientists who study autism.
4) Children are still born with autism. - thealsir, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10According to the wikipedia article, valproate is teratogenic and shouldn't be taken by mothers at all.
- minuslars, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10I wish they would have mentioned how the autism rate from mothers on valproate compares to mothers on other epilepsy drugs, rather than just mothers with epilepsy taking valproate compared to mothers with NO epilepsy taking nothing. It seems like a jump-to-conclusions without that info. this article doesn't eliminate the possibility of epilepsy itself causing autism.
- DaFunk, on 12/04/2008, -0/+9That's the first thing I thought when I saw the drug the article was referring to. Valproic acid is strongly contraindicated during pregnancy. The child is likely to have a wide range of problems; an autistic disorder is the tip of the iceberg. No pregnant woman should be taking this to begin with, so even if you could prove an unequivocal link, it's fairly pointless. Don't take drugs during pregnancy that are strongly linked to birth defects -- we already knew that.
- flegmato, on 12/04/2008, -1/+9You obviously don't have any experience dealing with autism...
- MixMastaKooz, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6"However, experts caution that the research is preliminary and needs to be confirmed."
That's all you need to know about this study. I just hope the anti-vaccine crowd (the ones who blame childhood vaccines for autism) doesn't manipulate this study somehow. Especially since it goes against what they've been espousing. - jonnyeh, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5No, the vaccine schedule is not too 'aggressive'. That's the latest talking point of the anti-vaccine movement since it was conclusively proven that thimerisol in the vaccines did not cause autism. The amount of antigens in the vaccines are miniscule compared to the antigens in nature that a child is exposed to. If it was too much too soon, then it would be too much to let your child outside of a bubble.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=289 - glenn2041, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5I take Sodium Valproate, and it's stated all over the box - don't take during pregnancy.
I think this 'study' is for epileptic woman who need to continue taking meds, but are willing to take a risk. They need to know what has the lowest risk. - gavdana, on 12/04/2008, -2/+6In related news, Autism has been statistically linked to amniotic fluid. Researchers have found that 100% of the autistic population was exposed to this dangerous liquid for nearly nine months during gestation.
- Dysarthria, on 12/04/2008, -0/+31) Valproic acid is already not recommended as a new drug for women who are pregnant or going ot be pregnant, and has been that way for DECADES. It causes spina-bifida.
2) The only pregnant mothers who take Valproate are those who were on it BEFORE they became pregnant. They are left on the medication because if they have epilepsy which is bad enough to warrant VPA, they have seizures bad enough to either kill them or the fetus.
3) Christ, this is not in vaccines and it never was the vaccines. - rororoyourboat, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4I'm almost definetly sure that doctors have thought about multiple vaccinations to children in a short amount may be harmful. This issue would be a large concern to the FDA and other associations. But it's not. It may seem frightening that your child is getting lots of 'mysterious' things but these vaccinations and schedules have been tested heavily to protect our children and protect our community. Your response of increasing the time between doses is very good parenting and skeptical as well and I think it's a great idea. But in my opinion and through tons of studies, it's an unnecessary precaution.
If only more parents can think for themselves like you have and find some rational. People like Oprah should (in my opinion) be heavily watched by the academia and skeptics to protect Americans and the world. What I don't understand is why parents still follow Oprah's parenting lessons after they've seen crackheads like Tom Cruise, Jenny McCarthy, and books like "The Secret" on her show. - jonnyeh, on 12/04/2008, -2/+5Liar, the CDC said no such thing. Also, it isn't just the CDC that denies the link between autism and thimerisol, every other scientific body in the whole world denies a link, including the WHO. It doesn't even matter what the medical institutions say, what matters is what the evidence says, and it is clearly negative. Vaccines do NOT cause autism! Not getting vaccines does lead to the risk of getting preventable, and possibly fatal, diseases though.
- Murdats, on 12/04/2008, -2/+5you realise that MMR as a combined vacination is GREATLY more efficint and effective right? by splitting it up for your daughter it sucks in the short and long term.
a starting point for some non-uninformed-mass-media research
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine
and try talking to your doctor about it, he may know more then random bloggers - plarp, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4this is bad science they should have compared women with epilepsy vs. women with epilepsy that took the drug.. not women with epilepsy who take a drug vs. women who don't have epilepsy..
there are studys that do show epilepsy, and autism are somehow linked...
do proper scientific studies! and quit scape goating! - dreicher, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3The thumbnail looks VERY different on my google widget.
- Murdats, on 12/04/2008, -3/+5that last sentence is near illegible but I would like to point out that thimerosal has not been in any common vaccines for a long time with no effect on autism.
it has been conclusively shown that vaccines and autism share no correlation other then age at which the symptoms present and the age of vaccination.
you know what does have a correlation though? vaccines and not dying a horrible death or suffering a terrible disease, and not getting vaccinated not only risks yourself but the whole of society due to the weakening of heard immunity and especially those who can not get vaccinated or where the vaccine does not work. - DaFunk, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2Valproate is far from the only drug available to treat epilepsy. There are alternatives during pregnancy that are less dangerous to the fetus.
- publiclurker, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3But would you trade your epilepsy for autism in your child? That's what the claim is, that mothers taking the drug had autistic children.
- Disgod, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2My mom had seizures and I don't care what mild link there is between autism and epilepsy drugs I would rather have had her take those drugs when she was pregnant with me than forgoing them. Epilepsy is ***** and scary to see as a little kid, my mom would just instantly drop to the ground where ever she was and start seizing, luckily she didn't ever get hurt too bad and they weren't major seizures, but if you're pregnant and have seizures you could do more damage to the kid and yourself without the drugs than with them.
And as others have said, this is something that is potentially true, but needs much more study before people take it as fact. - rororoyourboat, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3Oh I didn't know that combined they are more effective at immunization. Thanks for the facts. In that case, Oprah and McCarthy are doing more damage than I thought. This is scary.
- exscape, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2Add me to the list. What the heck, this is a strongly tetarogenic drug. Females who are at risk of getting pregnant are usually contraindicated as well, especially if not using birth control.
- CaviMike, on 12/04/2008, -2/+4Do I even need to post an excuse why I just
BURIED
this article? - emt1451, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2How ***** retarded are you? I seriously hope this was a joke.
- Disgod, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1You are correct. I just mean that there is evidence towards that hypothesis, but it really isn't very much. I would assume the next step for them would be to do a survey of women with autistic children already to see if the connection persists in a large sample size. I'm sure that it wouldn't be hard to do.
- gavdana, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1I'm sorry about your mom, but ...
"this is something that is potentially true"
... everything is potentially true until proven false. - emt1451, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1Let's call the high profile idiot Jim C.
- Ladymongoose, on 12/08/2008, -0/+1As the mother of a child with regressive autism, who also has severe auto-immune issues and severe food allergies, etc...I have to say I'm getting sick of these studies--I have run the gamut of believing that vaccines, genetics, my pregnancy diet, my son's inability to nurse (therefore he did not receive any colostrum- the important immune-boost for newborns), and every other possible reason behind it are the 'cause'...that ever-important CAUSE....GAH!!!!!! Even if I knew why my son dwindled away into autism after being a healthy baby who met every single ***** milestone and then some...what good would it do him? If genetics ARE involved, is there a test to see which babies are susceptible..no. Even though the CDC tells us that some babies should not be vaccinated, which babies are those- my son was one but we didn't know at the time? If my son was one of them, should my pediatrician not have told us? Maybe he wasn't trained to see the babies that were having the subtle reactions (or not so subtle)??? We do believe our child's issue's are due in part to his vaccines but we also believe it is genetic as well, plus the environment---our son was born with a highly sensitive immune system and our pediatrician even admitted that he probably should not have been vaccinated after his terrible reactions to all of them. Would he have regressed anyway? Who the ***** knows? Probably, but maybe not so severely?
All I know is that I wish our government would force every single insurance company to cover the therapies my son needs- at this point, we are concentrating on life-skills over schooling, though he is getting private school as well-- at 4, I can already see that even though he has the typical amazing memory that autistic kids seem to have, he can't reason or have a conversation like a normal 4 year old should- he can tell you how many windows are in a room he enters without thinking, but he can't answer a simple question like "what did you do at school today".... I still have a mother's hope that my son will 'snap out of it', but I know there is so much uphill battle..
And if they can't, then maybe our government could help us out financially. No one really understands the hell we parents go through- my husband makes a good salary, but we are living paycheck to paycheck.. There is so much hatred and animosity over the vaccine-autism debate, that we all seem to forget that there are little children , at the end of it all, that are never going to be able to function in society. To date, we have spent over $45K on treatments and therapy for my son, in two years, that insurance won't cover. It's over $7000 a year just for private schooling....public schooling was useless- there are just too many kids like my son out there and not enough school funding.
We have no more savings, no retirement plan..and I can't even bear to think what is going to happen to my son when he has to go into a group home.
Could we put our energy into this vaccine-autism debate into a more useful outlet? Sorry for venting...it's been a long day with my very autistic son---we are going through potty-training and he still doesn't care that he pooped in his underwear. It wears you down, you know? - Murdats, on 12/04/2008, -1/+2now you are catching on.
it is terrifying that people will believe these people and take a dangerous course of action over listening to those who know the facts, the magnitudes who have devoted their lives to this.
but it doesn't stop at vaccines, you have con artists and the dangerously misinformed everywhere, next time someone tells you something like homoeopathy doesn't hurt anyone so stop being so negative as homoeopaths have been shown to have no problem telling people to use homoeopathy (its just water) to prevent malaria when travelling to places such as africa, that is quite dangerous.
next time you hear about some sort of medicine that has far reaching applications for all sorts of effects (acupuncture, chiropractic 'medicine', etc) just think, would the practitioner use that for birth control?
sorry about the rant, but this ignorance is highly dangerous, contagious and spreading. there are those who are being exploited at risk of their livelihood and health for greed or misinformation.
oh and people like oprah and especially jim carry and jenny mccarthy are basically despised by the medical and skeptic communities because people listen to them and not the truth, that they can cause so much harm, measles outbreaks have been on the rise sharply since these people started spreading their misinformation. - wollsmosh, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1not this ***** again...
- stagnate, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1Well of course if she takes as many as shes holding in the photo it will. gee wizzz
- VitriolAndAngst, on 12/04/2008, -0/+1The significant thing here -- is that it might prove that drugs can cause Autism. Hence, it helps move the discussion on what is causing more autism.
- whalefarmerjohn, on 12/04/2008, -5/+5As an ex epileptic, I'd rather be still rather be autistic than epileptic.
- wiresaw, on 01/02/2009, -1/+1wow!!!
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http://healthcare-101.blogspot.com/ - benologist, on 12/04/2008, -1/+1Wow, you're back again with your crappy site. And reported again.
@ everyone else - you get the fastest results in getting these losers banned if you use digg's contact page:
http://digg.com/contact - inactive, on 12/03/2008, -1/+1Never seen it before.
- mickereeno, on 12/04/2008, -2/+2completely untrue... and if you are trying to link bush with the scientific consensus i am going to laugh my ass off... seriously, since one of the thing we KNOW about autism is that it is genetic, please tell me the medium by through which a vaccine would cause it... i hate misinformed morons going around and telling people to do something which could POTENTIALLY KILL THEIR KIDS!!! you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
- VitriolAndAngst, on 12/04/2008, -2/+2The CDC found a link between immunizations and autism -- and then it found no link between immunizations and autism.
That doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is how many people, champion the notion that there is no link, without much proof.
There have been studies showing that babies given a large number of immunizations before the age of one -- coupled with some genetic predispositions, makes their risk of developing Autism something like 400X the average. Before 6 months, the blood-brain barrier is not developed. Stress, mercury, and immunizations -- that's something we didn't have before.
Thimerisol is still in Flu vaccines that you might get on the cheap -- and I make sure to get those without it.
But I've quit using flu shots, because they are 18 months out of date by the time you take them. The industry doesn't want to pay for new techniques to make the process quicker -- so, that flu shot you take is a placebo at best. I always seem to get the flu two weeks after taking them.
I'm sure, like big Tobacco, you have all had the "truth" beat in your heads. I don't have a dog in this fight, and it seems like the same corporate propaganda is at play here muddying the waters. I've gotten my kids immunized -- but I pushed off so many that they want to do while they were a baby -- it just seems damn prudent not to pump too much of this stuff into kids.
Not Immunizing isn't going to kill kids. It would also make sense to stagger them a bit and wait for their natural immune system to get stronger. It also makes sense that many -- not all, immunizations don't use mercury any more, even though we were assured that it is not harmful (fat chance).
But really, do we even know if immunizations we are taking are good? When do we find that there is no testing going on -- like the Lead paint on kids toys, and the melamine in baby milk? The IDEA of an immunization is a great one -- but since industry cronies are at the helm of all the agencies like the FDA -- I don't have much faith that anyone has even checked that the chicken pox vaccine for instance, doesn't have chicken soup inside. - Ac1dburn, on 12/03/2008, -2/+2Would be interesting to find out if this is in all epilepsy drugs or just specific ones
- VitriolAndAngst, on 12/04/2008, -4/+3What is this -- the new "revealed truth" in church?
The CDC saw a connection between vaccines and autism, until they had new leaders assigned by the Bush administration, and then they found no connection.
With Eli Lilly trying to get Bill Frist to have immunity for Themerisol put in 5 different bills -- I'd say the Jury, and the conclusive tests have not yet been done. - VitriolAndAngst, on 12/04/2008, -4/+3If one drug can increase risk factors for autism -- that would mean that this may be occurring with other drugs.
Uh-Oh, time to cue the bury brigade from those people who worship corporations or work for Eli Lilly. Why is it, that people totally freak out at any suggestion? They point to a few flimsy reports, and deny any connection with Mercury -- which is highly toxic and effects the nervous system. Next we will learn that carcinogens don't help promote cancer.
It is just really strange, every time there is an article on Autism, you have a thousand people who dedicate themselves to saying it is random, natural, and nothing people do has an effect -- or that everything has an effect. Same damn thing happens with Global Climate Change, or any other story that might effect corporate profits. Is this the new idea for full employment? Reality Distortion Blogging? - gkiltz, on 12/04/2008, -2/+0Talk about hard choices?
WOW!!! - tourettes1992, on 12/04/2008, -3/+1So either shake and have a healthy kid or don't shake and then end up shaking your kid to death because he won't stop say, "Pet the fly mommy!"
- greenchip, on 12/04/2008, -5/+2Vacinnes might not cause autism, but I still think that our vaccination schedule is a little aggressive and too many combo shots are being used. Some of the earlier shots are not that bad as they don't necessarily use a live virus, but the MMR is a little concerning. It's not so much would they have a severe reaction, but what happens if they have a severe reaction to multiple vaccinations given at the same time? Is it a cumulative affect?
I know that for my daughter, I will be breaking out the MMR over time into its individual shots. It sucks for her in the short run, but she will never remember them while I feel like I have the opportunity to reduce the side affects. - sigg14, on 12/04/2008, -5/+1lol you foolish fool
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