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- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -14/+70What?? You mean doctors wont treat people for free (actually, in the case of medicare, you actually pay to see the patient when you compare the reimbursement rate to the cost of providing your service)? I just cant believe that doctors, with families, mortgages, business expenses, liability insurance, school loans etc, wont treat people for free. It just defies all logic.
- Chahrlie5, on 04/02/2009, -12/+61How selfish of doctors who pay hundreds of thousands to go to medical school not to work for scraps.
Disgusting. - inactive, on 04/03/2009, -2/+50"Two trends are converging: there is a shortage of internists nationally — the American College of Physicians, the organization for internists, estimates that by 2025 there will be 35,000 to 45,000 fewer than the population needs — and internists are increasingly unwilling to accept new Medicare patients."
I've met several internists who say that while they love medicine, they have so little time with patients these days -- and they spend so much of their day doing paperwork -- that they wouldn't recommend becoming a doctor, especially with education costs continuing to rise. - ftx437, on 04/02/2009, -38/+80FYi.
Medicare is government run.
Do you really think Socialized Medicine will fair any better? - Robart, on 04/02/2009, -0/+39I've been in practice 22 years. My property taxes have doubled, my payroll expenses per employee have doubled, my professional liability insurance has quadrupled etc. Medicare reimbursement is half of what it was 22 years ago. I've taken a cut almost every year. I treat medicare patients almost as charitable cases but I can't treat many. I wouldn't be able to pay my electrical bill.
The politicians look at the Medicare system as a big pile of money that they get to pass out. You better be ready to beg if you want any. I am afraid that a bigger national health care system will be the same. - thafranksta, on 04/02/2009, -8/+45because the government is great at making simplified programs.
- commentposted, on 04/02/2009, -3/+33Well, if you make their life hard enough, of course they're going to stop. Damn lawsuits and insurance and people who don't pay. What other occupations will follow closely thereafter? We're about to find out.
- MFoody, on 04/02/2009, -7/+26It's not like private medicine is a walk in the park either and that's only if your lucky enough to have basic health coverage at all.
- hblask, on 04/02/2009, -26/+45Gosh, I sure hope we get this kind of socialized medicine for all of America soon, instead of just seniors. That would be GREAT!
Oh, unless the govt pays too little. That would be bad, because doctors would quit. Or if they pay too much, because that would drive health care costs up. That would be bad, too. But as long as medical bureaucrats long removed from practice, sitting in their offices in Washington DC, can come up with a pricing scheme that is just right for rich and poor areas, urban and rural areas, and for all specialties and all treatments, then yeah, this will be great. Go Obama go! - Chahrlie5, on 04/02/2009, -1/+20No, they aren't happing being up to their eyeballs in debt paying off med school bills and malpractice insurance.
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -5/+23Screw going to docters, I diagnose and treat myself all the time. I even performed brain surgery on myself last month and steal my dad's painkillers.
- neilk85, on 04/02/2009, -4/+21you're exactly right and thats where capitalism comes into play. they say ***** it and dont treat medicare patients
- duckmanneo, on 04/02/2009, -0/+16*Note to self do not get old*
- h0bart, on 04/02/2009, -2/+17And just who do you think will be deciding the procedures you need if we had universal health care? Hm, lemme see, could it be the insurance companies that all lobby the ***** out of our politicians? Or the pharmaceutical companies that are completely in their pockets as well?
- puck, on 04/02/2009, -0/+14I am a primary care doctor and it is very true. You basically have to decide if you a. want to do a good job and earn relatively little money or b. do a crappy job and earn a hell of a lot more money. I chose a. but its burning me out so I'm getting out and changing to a hospitalist until the system is fixed. This country places relatively little value on primary care, which is a shame, because good primary care doctors can save the system a ton of money. Instead, we have a sub-specialist dominated systems and they burn through tests (money) like there is no tomorrow.
- kingmanic, on 04/02/2009, -16/+30Akairenn:
So you are saying size makes a difference? Despite Canada having a virtually identical culture, virtually identical urban densities, virtually identical economy, and slightly better poverty levels?
you argument is pretty feeble. What is it exactly about America that will make socialized medicine fail?
Americans are more corrupt? Americans are less healthy? Americans are more inept? Americans are just especially stupid? Americans enjoy spending twice as much for worse care on average? Americans prefer faceless private bureaucrat over faceless public bureaucrat deciding their care?
America has corruption and incompetent government because you allow it. Most people who argue with your set of points voted for the last incompetent and corrupt government. I suppose it's a self fulfilling prophesy. You expect inept and corrupt government and thus do nothing when you get inept and corrupt government. - inchrnt, on 04/02/2009, -7/+21health care in this country is profoundly broken. health care is no less greedy than wall street and I expect to see the same collapse.
Basically, every industry that has manipulated Washington for the sake of unsustainable greed will collapse. - govsucks, on 04/02/2009, -3/+16How dare you oppose the collective! Nobody cares what you say about nationalized health care, your just a doctor not a brilliant politician!
/s - puck, on 04/02/2009, -1/+14I'm a primary care doctor 2 years out of residency. I spend 3-4 hours a day doing paperwork. There is only so much your staff can do. We see medicare and medicaid. I'm leaving primary care this year because the paperwork is just too much to have any sort of life outside of work. If I go back, I will not accept either medicare or medicaid.
- AbelZhu, on 04/02/2009, -0/+13Pharmacists are beginning to refuse Medicaid.
Washington State cut down reimbursement rates for Medicaid and about a hundred pharmacies across Washington have stopped accepting Medicaid because they take a loss whenever they sell drugs - alphaterminus, on 04/02/2009, -0/+13I did family medicine for 6 years. I saw about 20-25 patients per day in rural Iowa, mostly older people on Medicare. Any given year I made $110,000-$120,000 gross. I had a $200,000 house, $100,000 student loans, 2 $20,000 car payments and $20,000 in credit car debts which built up over 4 years. After 6 years, I was making very little progress, and switched to emergency medicine. Now I work about as many hours but am never on call, and make $200,000 per year. It is impossible to make ends meet in primary care without seeing 40 patients in an 8 hour day, which I refuse to do because it is *****-for-care medicine.
- bobburn1, on 04/02/2009, -2/+14The market doesn't say $10 for neurosurgery, the government is trying to tell them that. You really have no understanding of the healthcare system or capitalism. The doctor has liability insurance, insurance for employees (if private practice), expenses for equipment, student loans, etc. In a free market, the price would be *more* than what it costs to perform, not less. The government is trying to dictate a below-cost solution.
Doctors, despite what some people may think, are not all wealthy. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars getting degrees and then are expected to work at a loss because the government says so.
How about every person that works at Mcdonalds be forced to pay for the supplies (burgers, buns, lettuce, etc) and pay for "correct order insurance," and have the price of food dictated by the government. And of course, the price is below cost. Isn't that fair? - SpyCatcher, on 04/02/2009, -1/+13Medicare is not to blame for the decline in physician's, it has to do more with $200,000 in student loans that the average doctor will never pay back in s/he lifetime. The massive debt to start a small practice (80 to 100) per month.
Compare a Doctor's eduction to the cost of Athletic who will never contribute anything to society and now you understand why there is a decline in Physician's in the USA. - derek20cali, on 04/02/2009, -3/+14More than 150 critically ill Canadians – many with life-threatening cerebral hemorrhages – have been rushed to the United States since the spring of 2006 because they could not obtain intensive-care beds there. Before patients with bleeding in or outside the brain have been whisked through U.S. operating-room doors, some have languished for as long as eight hours in Canadian emergency wards while health-care workers scrambled to locate care.
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -1/+12My Doctor no longer accepts Medicaid, but has offered to see me for $50 flat, since I chose to opt-out of Cobra with my layoff.
- computershack, on 04/02/2009, -13/+24"Sorry, you can't compare some podunk Euro countries that aren't even the size of one of our states to us."
FYI you ***** dumb retarded Yank, the population of the founding EU nations is FAR ***** BIGGER than that of the US yet all have socialised healthcare. - diggwut, on 04/02/2009, -11/+22Those against socialized medicine predicted this would happen. Wont be long till there are significant shortages of doctors.
(But at least health care will be free!) - galeninjapan, on 04/02/2009, -0/+11Are YOU helping doctor do paperwork so they can take care of more patients?
- thegrantman, on 04/02/2009, -1/+12The only reason healthcare is an issue is because of the cost.
If we don't fix the cost, giving everyone healthcare will bankrupt us.
Lawsuits/ insurance are the primary costs.
Overwhelming bureaucracy is a close second.
Down the line is lack of preventative medicine.
Restructure these and we'll all be able to afford it. - kooredaan, on 04/02/2009, -2/+12People can poo-poo a form of universal healthcare, but I know just as many doctor's (yes I married into the profession) reject certain private insurance companies in favor of others. In other words one practice won't accept United Healthcare, but one will accept Anthem.....
Maybe actually computerizing/digitizing the process will help cut down on paper work? Yes, I think so. - GaltShrugged, on 04/02/2009, -5/+15You mean a doctor might think of their own self interest instead of the "common good"? Obama might put them to death.
- BoneheadFarker, on 04/02/2009, -37/+47Right, because universal health care doesn't work anywhere else. And insurance companies are much better suited to decide which procedures you need and which ones you don't...
- Hetman, on 04/02/2009, -3/+13How come that never applies to the military? If everything the government gets involved in gets worst, then I would imagine to keep our country safe the best thing to do would be to put our military into the hands of the private sector.
- bainfu, on 04/02/2009, -0/+9I feel for you, and it's not just Medicare, I've heard that a lot of Doctor's are not taking certain types of Insurance or any Insurance at all, due to the Insurance companies bargaining power because of Medicare.
If a Medicare defines a procedure at a specific dollar amount, the Insurance company claims why should they pay more? - KSUdesigner, on 04/02/2009, -1/+10Don't get me wrong, I think athletes and executives are far overpaid too. The problem is that in a country as advanced as the United States, a middle class family should not be financially wiped out from their healthcare costs. I think doctors should be the people making the most money, but that's impossible to do when the majority of the citizens just can't afford to pay them that much. What needs to be done from the government is to give them like an 80%-90% tax break. Doctors could then afford to lower their prices a bit, and more people could then afford healthcare.
And yeah I'm sure the paperwork is ridiculous, but that's an easier problem to solve. - bobburn1, on 04/02/2009, -11/+20Medicare has sucked for years, hasn't had anything to do with "de-funding" the damn thing. Socialized medicine will result in a bureaucratic nightmare worse than even the most congested of emergency rooms.
- acmaurer, on 04/02/2009, -4/+13Seriously - if you're looking for a doctor who takes Medicare - make sure you're asking if they're enrolled with Medicare. I think it's a question many forget!
- SmartestDigger, on 04/02/2009, -37/+46Obamacare will meet the same fate.
The only way to get doctors to go along with it is to enslave them.
But then, that will be the eventual result of Obamunism. - puck, on 04/02/2009, -0/+8We're not dealing with billing or administrative paperwork. More like FLMA, doctors notes for work/school/military, disability, prior autherizations for meds or figuring out what meds we need to change patient to because for the 3rd time in year so far an insurance company changes its formulary, letters to justify some medical device for patients, ect, ect.
- smemily, on 04/02/2009, -2/+10Can everyone remember for a minute that there are other options besides "socialized medicine" and "free market"? It's a false dichotomy and there are other ways to achieve universal health coverage without socializing anything.
- dannykeene, on 04/02/2009, -1/+9How many illegal immigrants are getting free health care while actual tax paying americans are cutting prescription pills in half?
- mksmothers, on 04/02/2009, -8/+16The more the government is involved with something, the worse it gets.
- dave122, on 04/02/2009, -3/+11You think healthcare is expensive now? Wait until it's free.
Paraphrased - Stephen Roberts - Akairenn, on 04/02/2009, -36/+43Everywhere else isn't the United States of America.
Sorry, you can't compare some podunk Euro countries that aren't even the size of one of our states to us. You also can't compare Canada - which has the population of about one of our states - to us.
Our government is corrupt, inefficient and incompetent. I don't want them anywhere near medical care. - Thuktun, on 04/02/2009, -0/+7@h0bart
People buy health insurance for the same reason they buy car insurance, homeowner's insurance, renter's insurance, etc.: the odds of something bad happening outweigh the rationale for setting aside lots of money to pay for it.
The reason that HMOs and PPOs cover preventative care is for their own benefit, because those who get preventative care are cheaper to insure than those who don't. - inactive, on 04/02/2009, -3/+10Oh cute. The NYTimes is making a subtle case for forcing every doctor to accept Medicare (or whatever the new UHC will be called).
- inactive, on 04/02/2009, -0/+7It's a good thing my dialysis is covered my medicare. Each day costs $300+, but my dialysis center is only reimbursed $120. I don't see how they stay open with that much of a gap.
- yoderizer, on 04/02/2009, -1/+8How do you pay for your food? With hope and change?
- reiggin, on 04/02/2009, -0/+6Silly doctors. All that hard work and money invested into their education to be able to save lives and here they are expecting something more than minimum wage. Shame on them!
- h0bart, on 04/02/2009, -7/+13Just who decided that health coverage is needed for health care? What ever happened to going to the doctor, getting a bill, and paying it out of money saved or earned? Oh wait I know what happened, government laws created and pushed by those insurance companies ended up taking away our health freedom.
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