What is Digg?106 Comments
- kinghami3, on 10/27/2008, -4/+68I thought we already knew this...
- lunface, on 10/27/2008, -0/+25Well, general depression, as in "oh, i'm bummed out," is very different from clinical depression. Clinical depression will severely hamper your ability to even get up in the morning and interact with society in a "normal" way--going to work, getting stuff done, and so on. When the thought of even stepping outside your front door triggers suicidal thoughts, there is something more than just a general dissatisfaction with the state of the world going on.
- inactive, on 10/27/2008, -6/+25Doesn't surprise me in the least. I always figured that depression/suicide has to be a matter of the brain being physically rewired. Granted, it does take away from the notion that we have free will, but I think that's just something that we're going to have to live with - as our understanding of the brain increases, it's becoming more and more apparent that our so-called free will is actually quite limited, if it exists at all.
- evilglee, on 10/27/2008, -1/+19Feeling unhappy in response to bad things is not depression. It's normal, healthy human behavior. If anyone wants to "treat" you for that, they need a good kicking.
Depression is when your rational brain can take a look at your life and say, objectively, that everything is going great and you have absolutely no cause to complain...and yet you don't have the will to embrace life and drive your sports car over to your hot girlfriend's house. There's something broken inside your head, and you KNOW it, but you can't make yourself do anything about it. If you haven't struggled with that, you can't understand what it's like. - myfriendbrenn, on 10/27/2008, -0/+15Well, uh, yeah, you bet.
I can say from my own personal experience with such matters that it's amazing how dire these imbalances can make you feel. Furthermore, unless you have felt this way, you can't imagine how it feels. Try to imagine the worst day of your life being everyday - and having no control over it. You literally can't be yourself, and simply put, that does not feel good. There's no choice in the matter, it's just something that happens to you for no rhyme or reason - and for a long time I tried to find an explanation: that I had done something wrong or was somehow unhealthy - and only recently, when I tackled the problem with a medicinal solution, and balanced those hampering imbalances, was I able to find any relief. So I sympathize with anyone who has faced suffering of this nature - and for anyone who thinks this suffering isn't real, do you really think people would end their one shot at life unless the misery was that awful.
Basically, if anyone comes to you about what they're going through: be there for them. For years I carried my burden alone, and it almost got the best of me. - Jaenns, on 10/27/2008, -0/+14Yes, my mother always says: "you don't understand, It's stronger than me" :((((
- Gripweed, on 10/27/2008, -2/+16"the gene that was being shut down was a chemical message receptor that plays a major role in regulating behaviour. "
And that chemical messager is...? Probably one that already has reuptake drugs on the market for it. - Taintsmasher, on 10/27/2008, -1/+15Scientology FAIL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwAaHbmF5S4 - minorthreat, on 10/27/2008, -1/+14Wouldn't chemical changes in the human body also trigger other emotions? Such as Love and Happiness?
- elizabethb221, on 10/27/2008, -0/+12Most studies link low seratonin levels with depression. This is different.
- DotGet, on 10/27/2008, -0/+10No, we knew about how irregular dopamine/serotonin/noreprenephrine levels are the main cause of psychological 'issues' such as depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. What we didn't know is that apprently our DNA in the brain is malleable, and that people who commit suicide tend to have an accelerated version of the process that leads to the loss of need for self-preservation.
Being biologically depressed myself, I found this article informational and interesting. My question: how does this help? - cgibbo, on 10/27/2008, -4/+14You're right, it is your fault.
- drgmdp, on 10/27/2008, -0/+9no, it's basic neurochemistry
- kingmanic, on 10/27/2008, -0/+8The chemical changes delineate the difference between a suicidal person and a pessimist. Life may suck, but many people deal with astoundingly tragic circumstances just fine while others kill themselves over a relationship.
I know a lady who had her entire family killed, who walked days through fields of corpses and fell over exhausted each night next to these bodies and got up to keep walking. She survived the ethnic cleansing of Cambodia and managed to make her way to Canada. At no point did she want to kill herself. I also know a girl who tried to commit suicide because she had a bad break up. It may be chemical differences that separate one from the other. - mGARANDEUR1, on 10/27/2008, -0/+8Obvious troll is obvious...
- WiretapStudios, on 10/27/2008, -1/+9You are (incorrectly) assuming that people believe in your superstitions about heaven and the rules that man made up about it.
Behavior is not a choice many times. Take psychology 101. - inactive, on 10/27/2008, -1/+8tom cruise?
- Clumber, on 10/27/2008, -0/+7Jaenns, had to digg you (& your mom) because that is the truest statement i have ever read regarding depression from inside the trenches.
Didn't want to seem like I was digging your mom suffering from depression. Power to her to keep fighting it. - kingmanic, on 10/27/2008, -1/+8In light of all the studies that point to a physical mind, why is there such a belligerent contingent insisting on unproven ideas of some separation of mind and brain? Penrose, the anti-science groups, and the various people who just don't want to deal with the idea your brain is your mind all throw out untested and untestable ideas to try and avoid the conclusions that you are a physical thing. Why is it so hard to accept?
- WiretapStudios, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6Same here! I'm glad you found some sort of relief. I had anxiety and mild depression that really ruled my life. I hate taking medicines and tried like 25 kinds (some incorrectly prescribed) before I hit on the right chemical for me. I hate taking something every day, but since taking it I have really turned my life and relationships around and let me live my life. Exercise and outdoor activities really helped me as well, and meditation.
And you are right, it's hard to explain to someone why you didn't want to leave the house. - mockupscaledown, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6Add to that confusion, memory loss, body aches, tinnitus, loss of peripheral vision...
- llamaspit, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6I can relate to your post. It's really impossible to explain to anyone who hasn't suffered true depression (not just "feeling down") what it feels like. I even have a hard time explaining it to shrinks. I've had people tell me "snap out of it" or "just do something different" to lift my spirits. It's not about that. The sheer terror one feels at the lowest point in their lives is a reality-shattering experience. Being afraid of yourself and your brain is one of the worst feelings you can imagine. Worse yet is feeling there's no way out, no solution.
Medicinal remedies do definitely work. But I'm starting to realize that drugs are a (relatively) short term solution to a longer term problem. There are ways to handle this long term without drugs, but it's an enormous amount of work, and that work is not able to be tackled when your every bit of energy is spent trying to find the courage to get out of bed. Antidepressants definitely work by helping you to at least get to the point where you can see beyond yourself and your tortured brain.
I know, nothing new about my post, just sharing.
And yes, having someone "there for me" has made ALL the difference. - UnderWaterman, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6Yes, what do you think drugs do..
- greentimes, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6Did any of you read the article? It's not about chemical imbalance directly - its about the way that cells in the brain are going through the process of genetic adaptation in ways that they shouldn't because they don't divide. This is an entirely new realm of study that is deeper and goes far beyond plain "chemical imbalance" to the potential root of the problem.
- riddlebox, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6They should also analyze the brains of Suicide Bombers compare them with other suicidal tendencies without religious backing to see when chemical changes are the same and those that are different. From here we would be able to nail down exactly what effect religion has on the brain. We then create a chemical weapon that prevents those cells from being 'Re-Programmed' and then we would have beaten the terrorist in that sense of view.
- lkrr, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6not serotonin or norepinephrine - "site-specific methylation of a regulatory region of the GABAA receptor α1 subunit gene, which was previously shown to be downregulated in the suicide brain" (from the paper)
- crystalsmoke, on 10/27/2008, -0/+6The original article
It's too bad that the BBC news story couldn't include a link to the actual research publication, because the full article is subscription-only. The good news is that the journal did provide free full-text access to peer commentary on the research, including a lot more detailed information than the news story. Read it online for free at http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals ... . Citation for the commentary - "Approaching the Molecular Pathology of Suicide", Schahram Akbarian, Biological Psychiatry - 15 October 2008 (Vol. 64, Issue 8, Pages 643-644, DOI: 10.1016/j.biopsych.2008.06.013). - Frostek, on 10/27/2008, -1/+6Ha... you're on thin ice now, my friend!
- Kenzan, on 10/27/2008, -1/+620 test subjects is NOT a conclusion.
It is an interesting lead. - Kakumeikeahi, on 10/27/2008, -0/+5anti-depressants are terrible blunt objects, anyone who's gone through that can tell you the doctors don't really know what they are doing. They just try the next type of anti-depressant until it works.
This discovery is a very -specific- detail that they worked out, you see we still don't much understand how the brain does what it does. - jikmo, on 10/27/2008, -0/+5Having such thoughts causes different chemicals to be released than having "happy thoughts". When depressive thoughts occur for long periods of time, large changes can occur in the brain that are difficult to reverse.
In other words, "personal issues" can cause chemical problems. Though some people are more susceptible to this than others, and in some people, the chemical problems occur without much or any environmental stimulus. - spectecjr, on 10/27/2008, -0/+5If the machine's broken, how can it make accurate choices?
- jikmo, on 10/27/2008, -0/+5As Kurt Vonnegut once said, some day we'll be able to take a piss test to determine depression. Hopefully that day will come soon because it'd greatly help us determine which types of depression a person has.
Anyway, the title of the article sucks. The news isn't that chemical changes have occurred, that's old news. The news is that we know that these chemical changes are related to gene suppression rather than just "a depletion of certain neurotransmitters".
Diggers need to read articles before they say that they're useless. - jikmo, on 10/27/2008, -1/+6Um... yes?
Was there a real question here? I'm confused - DivineMonkey, on 10/27/2008, -0/+5Good news for me and similar people =)
- jaythree9, on 10/27/2008, -0/+4Wow, you are quite naïve, aren't you?
- kingmanic, on 10/27/2008, -0/+4If the piss test comes about, and they have a successful treatment it may spell the end to the majority of great art as we know it since depressed people tend to make the most interesting art (Van Gough, Kobain, Poe, Pollock, Rothko, Kline etc. . .).
- gabbagabba, on 10/27/2008, -0/+4Yes we did. Thats what anti-depressants are meant to do, to solve chemical imbalances in the brain.
- Scrappy1850, on 10/27/2008, -6/+10buried as inaccurate! the birds tell me to kill myself, not the chemicals!
- inactive, on 10/27/2008, -1/+5if i wanted to digg up some unknown *****, i'd digg up
http://*****.net - bonk2k, on 10/27/2008, -0/+4They're talking about genes, not neurotransmitters. This has nothing to do with reuptake.
- da_bradler, on 10/27/2008, -0/+4glad there is someone else who gets it.
- kingmanic, on 10/27/2008, -1/+5What experiment or data point suggest a non physical nature? There has been no legitimate ones that I have ever heard of.
- theHman, on 10/27/2008, -1/+4Actually, a chaotic system is one that is non-linear and therefore CANNOT be described by any sort of function.
People in dreams are just fragments of your memories of them, not any sort of analysis and reconstruction of their brain.
I've asked a math professor of mine about this- he's a biophysicist, and his research is all about mathematical modeling of brain activity. It's pretty damn fascinating, if you ask me. - MortalynFlux, on 10/27/2008, -0/+3This is what is mind blowing: you are actually playing those parts yourself, according to Erving Goffman in _Frame Analysis_
- TVarmy, on 10/27/2008, -0/+3Well, if we know what the mechanism is, then we'll finally know how SSRIs really work. Then, we can get them to work better with less side effects. SSRIs are no fun, but they work, so any improvement is welcome.
- diggdong, on 10/27/2008, -1/+4oh, I thought it was demons.
- lemur, on 10/27/2008, -0/+2It doesn't take away from the notion of free will; if people choose to commit suicide, the physical state of their body would obviously match their decision, but that doesn't mean they didn't decide it.
I'm not saying their decision caused their brain to change--brain structure/function could cause their decision, but it's a decision none the less. - kingmanic, on 10/27/2008, -0/+2Science is willing to test it's accepted ideas and accept new ideas with "proof". Where is your proof? The placebo effect doesn't have to be anything special. It seems almost everyone will have a TEMPORARY positive effect on their health is proscribed anything. This could be simply your body chemically reacting to the idea they are being treated but the effect is temporary. Perhaps an effect similar to temporary surges in energy and strength induced by adrenaline. What part of the effect requires a new non physical model of the mind?
Science does not introduce ideas just because it could be possible. It does so because it could be possible and there is some evidence for it. - Clumber, on 10/27/2008, -1/+3Well at least it didn't get titled as [BREAKINNG NEWS!1!!]
(typos intentional, lack of sarcasm tag also intentional) -
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