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90 Comments
- Sexercise, on 10/31/2009, -3/+33I will say that my outlook on things changed significantly after I did shrooms.
Holy crap. - Jimmerz, on 10/31/2009, -2/+29Dropping acid a few times in my early adulthood changed my perspective permanently and, I think, in a good way. Some good trips, a couple of bad ones. Wouldn't encourage anyone to do it, wouldn't dissuade them either. It's an individual choice.
That being said, I think Chopra is full of crap. - rolf, on 10/31/2009, -0/+23Article content aside, why do people listen to this ***** artist?
- TheMoniker, on 10/31/2009, -2/+22Watching this spiritual huckster backpedaling in the Dawkins interview was priceless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-FaXD_igv4 - Frankzulla, on 10/31/2009, -5/+22Psht, holistic medicine is absolute hogwash but I'm always willing to listen to the topic of LSD.
- psyclonic, on 10/31/2009, -5/+19Deepak cops some enlightenment at 17 from dropping a little acid - one of those dreaded "recreational" drugs. But then the poor sap has to go Politically Correct and say that it's only for shamans and yogis - after all, drugs of any consequence have to be "prescribed." So much for a little induced enlightenment for the masses.
Enlightenment becomes for humanity as sex became for Quakers - forbidden. - EMFK, on 10/31/2009, -3/+17What a trip! :-)
- copypastry, on 10/31/2009, -2/+15CAPTAIN'S LOG: STARDATE 2.5SOMETHING... I'VE TAKEN TOO MUCH LSD I'M TRAPPED ON THE PLANET'S SURFACE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3c8_ZTNrg - badqat, on 10/31/2009, -0/+12"They looked totally stoned!"
- TheKriket, on 10/31/2009, -1/+10yea, i had the same experience. My whole perspective on life shifted.
- catalysis, on 10/31/2009, -1/+9I can never understand what motivates people to make this ***** up.
- lolwatermelon, on 10/31/2009, -1/+9From wikipedia:
"In Western culture, alternative medicine is any healing practice "that does not fall within the realm of conventional medicine""
Conventional medicine is medicine that's been proven to work. Alternative medicine is medicine that has not been proven to work.
It's the crazy crap like saying sticking a needle in your foot is going to cure your migraines. - terminal157, on 10/31/2009, -0/+7If you were taking acid in early adulthood in an attempt to, for lack of a better phrase, expand your mind, wasn't your perspective already in flux? It seems people of a certain young age often take drugs as part of their natural experimentation with life and then give the drugs all the credit without realizing perspectives tend to change dramatically during that period for everyone.
I'm just maintaining a healthy level of skepticism, not being a dick. I'm genuinely curious about the whole thing, and I replied to you specifically because you sound reasonable.
EDIT: I thought I should make it clear that I strongly support the legalization of all drugs on general principle. - npcabral, on 10/31/2009, -1/+8you are full of *****. Ive heard the whole "I know some dude that thinks hes a glass of OJ a million times." The amount of acid ive dropped. the people ive tripped with... ive never seen any of those mindless first hand and i doubt you have either. Just like marijuana will make you a mindless killer.
- zachstanley, on 10/31/2009, -3/+10Pay closer attention: He says it should be done under the supervision of someone who is experienced. This is no different from the fairly typical recommendation that you should do these drugs with a sitter who knows how psychedelics impact someone and how to guide them through potentially negative experiences. These things can have seriously harmful psychological consequences if you just go out and do it on a whim.
- V1ruk, on 10/31/2009, -0/+6If you take acid, you can get an introspective experience, where you sit there, and literally take stock of your mind, and your ethics and morals, you as a person, literally within 12 hours you can feel like a completely different person.
- psyclonic, on 10/31/2009, -0/+6obviously coming from someone who's never done it...
- ohplease, on 10/31/2009, -1/+7@archer104: Except that when Alternative Medicine claims something "works", it's usually put through the rigors that conventional medicine goes through to see if it actually does: Hint: It doesn't, otherwise it would become conventional medicine.
- yankeedollar, on 11/01/2009, -0/+5"I'm glad mushrooms are against the law, because I took them one time, and you know what happened to me? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, "My God! I love everything." Yeah, now if that isn't a hazard to our country … how are we gonna justify arms dealing when we realize that we're all one?"
- Jimmerz, on 10/31/2009, -0/+5That's an interesting idea, and I'm sure it's valid to some degree. I say my perspective changed. You say it may have done so anyway, or acid (and psilocybin) only accelerated things. There's no way of knowing. Only did each about three times and recall one or two of those trips as revelatory. One in particular was pretty much a nightmare.
Drugs had both good and bad effects on my life. Alcohol most certainly caused me problems, more than all others combined. I wouldn't take any of it back, feel like all those experiences contributed to making me who I am. Just wish I'd been a bit quicker to learn lessons from my mistakes along the way. - Sporky023, on 11/01/2009, -0/+5@terminal157: It differs from ordinary introspection in that it is incredibly intense, almost a simulation of what the state of your mind would be after like 50 years of hard meditation.
If you never have done a psychedelic, I will not be able to completely or even barely describe to you the difference. It is like trying to explain to someone the taste of orange juice. You simply can't. Those who have all tasted orange juice know they have something in common, but they cannot encapsulate the experience in words and give it to another person. Instead they can only say: "Go to your grocery store, buy some orange juice, pour it in a glass, and drink it. Then you will know."
However, having done these drugs I can say that there is an ENORMOUS difference.
One outcome of drug use is a real appreciation for the wide variety of forms of consciousness which can exist in the human brain. "Sobriety" is merely a tiny sliver of the potentialities of what YOU are. Even within that "tiny sliver", there is indeed an entire world to explore. But outside of that sliver, there are thousands upon thousands MORE worlds waiting for you.
If you have not tried psychedelics before (which based on your questions it sounds like you have not), and you are truly curious with your questions such as "How does this differ from ordinary introspection?", I highly encourage you to do a little experimenting. It may take you a while to procure the substances (I recommend LSD primarily, but mushrooms will also provide a very valuable experience), but the effort is worth it.
Good luck!
Nothing else compares. You can do a lot of things to change your state of mind - exercise, meditation, debate, reading, singing - but when you drop in psychoactive chemicals which change the firing patterns of your neural networks - oh boy it's a RIDE, something you CAN'T get by doing these other things. - 100thwindow, on 10/31/2009, -0/+5Indeed. I have done mushrooms once. During my trip, I thought about how ancient human beings that discovered the effects of shrooms thought it to be contact/experiencing God or some spiritual entity, or achieving some "higher-level" of understanding, all the while not knowing about Psilocybin or it's affect on the brain. It was amusing to think about.
- elliotys, on 10/31/2009, -3/+8I have a lot of respect for Dr. Chopra as an endocrinologist, but am I really supposed to believe that drugs affect Shammans differently? Isn't that a little to convenient of an excuse for the Shammans to get high. Unless their brains/nervous systems have a different physiology, there is no reason to believe that these drugs would affect them differently.
I'm not against the Shammans using the drugs, or anyone for that matter, but come on people. When did we start bringing fantasty into our discussions about recreational drug use? - BlueSun420, on 10/31/2009, -2/+7It is true that our everyday cognitive processes are very similar to the way a computer works. However, what a lot of people discover during psychedelic experiences is that there's different and just as legitimate ways of understanding reality other than through the filter of normal cognitive processes.
Similar to how a computer uses binary to measure and categorize data, our everyday mind thinks in ways that discriminate, divide, and compare separate "things." This is a result of the evolutionary process, it's much more practical to experience reality in this way. But what psychedelic drugs can show someone is that our normal way of experiencing reality, while practical, is illusory, because it's revealed that there is a basic oneness of the universe, the binary duality of ying and yang is transcended to show that there are no separate things in the universe, only in the mind's eye. Of course, anytime this sort of thing is discussed it sounds too mystical to the point of embarrassment, and such an experience by it's very nature is ineffable. The point I'm trying to get across though is that many people consider it enlightening to experience reality in this type of way. - bennjammin, on 11/01/2009, -0/+4Deepak Chopra is new age nonsense!
- BlueSun420, on 10/31/2009, -0/+4I agree that drug use should not be limited to Shamans. However, entheogenic drugs such as LSD are definitely not for everyone. The essential point that I believe Deepak Chopra was making was that these drugs are better used by people who are knowledgeable about altered states of consciousness. It's not that the drugs affect Shamans or spiritual gurus differently than other people, it's just that someone who is experienced and knowledgeable about the practice of altering their consciousness is a lot less likely to freak out.
I would liken it to driving a car. I wouldn't recommend that people who have no knowledge or experience driving to go out on the road, they are a lot more likely to get into a car accident. But you're right, to say it should ONLY be used by Shamans is taking precaution too far. - MarkCiccone, on 10/31/2009, -0/+4He drops acid and now wears glasses encrusted with diamonds?
- LittleDas, on 10/31/2009, -2/+6I never got it when people said they had a whole new perspective on life after they tried some kind of hallucinogen. Your brain is just a squishy computer. Granted it's a fantastic, mind bogglingly complex, ridiculously powerful computer but there is nothing magical there and everything you experience is just the accidental output of malfunctioning machinery.
- FishThePirate, on 10/31/2009, -2/+6Well, that's spiritual/religious mumbo-jumbo for you. There's always gotta be some arbitrary someone to tell you where to put your money and what the rules you have to obey are.
- gutistg, on 10/31/2009, -1/+5Psychedelic: mind manifesting.
If you're more experienced with having your unconscious thoughts, desires, and fears made (seemingly) real you're less likely to damage yourself physically or psychologically when the spiders start trying to lay their eggs in your eyes.
And if you're not very experienced, it's helpful to have someone around to talk you down when you decide that now is the perfect time to die.
But go ahead: muddy the argument, misinterpret intentions. And when you are something like comatose, confronting the realization and manifestation of every flaw in your being, wishing to whatever you believe in that death might be so kind as to release you from this self-inflicted torture, the cognitive dissonance, the pain of seeing yourself from a foreign point of view (an altered sate of consciousness), you will know what Dr. Chopra means.
You would accept the aid of anyone with the experience necessary to help you through the situation, regardless of their spirituality or religious beliefs.
So if you value hallucinogens and their effects in any way, please be respectful of those that have more experience with them, be they psychiatrist, entheogenic botanist, yogi, or aging hippy. They've "been" places you'll never even begin to fathom (and probably don't want to). - 100thwindow, on 10/31/2009, -0/+4And will experience some at the moment before death.
- Zaxcomp, on 10/31/2009, -0/+4You took some last night when you fell into a coma for 5-9 hours and experienced closed eye visual hallucinations.
- Sinn3r, on 10/31/2009, -1/+5Thank god LCD doesn't make everyone who takes it as logically flawed as this *****.
- catalysis, on 10/31/2009, -0/+4It is well known that the mental/psychological state of a person affects their health.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=psyc ... - terminal157, on 10/31/2009, -0/+3V1ruk: How does this differ from ordinary introspection, which, again, tends to be a main feature of everyone's life during that stage of development? I'll agree that condensing it down to a single twelve hour period is remarkable, but my impression is that the duration implied by the original commenter, and others who made similar statements, is longer than this and involved multiple sessions.
- woodrail, on 10/31/2009, -0/+3Think of it as a tool, something like a telescope or a microscope or an xray camera. Your vision is changed and you see new stuff, which can be educational.
- psyclonic, on 10/31/2009, -0/+3nope, not Puritans - plenty of those around today (many call themselves "evangelicals" now)
how many Quakers do you know? probably not many. early followers didn't believe in sex, hence the rarity of Quakers - LittleCyster, on 10/31/2009, -0/+3I CAN'T BREATHE, I NEED TO GET BACK TO THE SHIP
- Sporky023, on 11/01/2009, -0/+3Amen, gutisg.
In my experience traveling the multiverse within one's own head is a VERY humbling experience. People need to learn that respect and religious awe may be often used as tools of interpersonal domination and social control. But the actual origin of these things as aspects of "religion" is in the very real experience of coming face-to-face with what others may have dubbed "god". - nVious, on 10/31/2009, -4/+7Imo I've had better spiritual experiences with large quantities of shrooms. There is another hallucinogen called DMT (Dimethyltryptamine), its the most extreme type of hallucinogen out there. You have total lose of grip on reality. I think that if you took some of that you would have one of the most spiritual moments of your life.
- hackiavelli, on 10/31/2009, -0/+3I think you mean Puritans. Quakers are pretty easy going.
- woodrail, on 10/31/2009, -0/+2Yes, "drugs affect Shammans differently" - just like an experienced person can do tricks on a skateboard whereas a neophyte just falls off.
- ohplease, on 10/31/2009, -0/+2It's like a waking dream, but it's not a life changing experience, doesn't last very long.
- TheMoniker, on 11/02/2009, -0/+2Well, he backs off right away from his whole "quantum healing" (i.e. healing the body from the quantum level on up) nonsense and states that it's a metaphor—backpedaling right off the bat from his position that we can "manipulate the quantum level in our own bodies"* in the context of what physicists mean by quantum mechanics. He then stumbles when Dawkins points out that it has nothing to do with quantum theory as in physics: "no, I think that quantum theory has a lot of ... uh ... things to say about [the] observer effect." He then shuffles back to painting it as a metaphor for creativity. He then stumbles again,saying that the quantum physicists have hijacked the use of the word. Dawkins then nails him to the board, both about the absurdity of physicists hijacking the word and about science not being 'fundamentalist.' It's an equal mix of stumbling, backpedaling and unintentional slapstick.
*Such as he discusses in his book Quantum healing: http://store.chopra.com/productinfo.asp?item=76 - ohplease, on 10/31/2009, -0/+2I'm the mayor of wobbly town, hit me up if you want a spot on the town council. Tonight's agenda is in a zip lock on my counter.
- Sporky023, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2Nirgual, your name is supremely ironic. Interested in reading books? Check out Carlos Castaneda.
It is obvious to me and the rest of these people that you have never tried a psychedelic drug. You of course cannot be stopped from speaking ill of it before you try it, but we don't have to respect your ill-informed rantings. - morphcham, on 10/31/2009, -2/+4What a hypocrite! He says "my first 'spiritual' experience was with LSD when I was 17" but "don't take drugs!! not unless you find a Shaman!" Obviously, LSD doesn't belong to any Shamanic tradition, and when he had his "spiritual experience" at 17, it wouldn't have been administered by a Shaman. Also, Chopra is one of those "guru" people who profit off of people's misguided intentions. LSD predictably produces a more spiritual experience than you will get if you pay Chopra 5, 10 or even 15,000 dollars.
- proflacroix, on 10/31/2009, -0/+2"When did we start bringing fantasty into our discussions about recreational drug use?"
sometime in the 30's. legislators have been riding the fantasy ever since. - BlueSun420, on 11/01/2009, -1/+3Actually the opposite is true. Our normal rational minds superimpose upon the universe the symbols we use to identify what we perceive as separate things.
It's understandable that you would write off any state of mind other than our normal rational thinking as nothing but chaos divorced from reality because we take it for granted that this way is the only way of understanding the universe. However, what's often discovered during a psychedelic experience is that the legitimacy of our normal state of consciousness is even more questionable than psychedelic states of mind. After all, I can turn it around and ask the same question to you, how do you know that the way you normally think of the world is not flawed and illusory?
I don't think for a second that I can convince you of the legitimacy of the experience through mere words, there is no substitute for direct experience. The only testable hypothesis is for you to experience it yourself.
Sporky023 said it well in a comment above: "It is like trying to explain to someone the taste of orange juice. You simply can't. Those who have all tasted orange juice know they have something in common, but they cannot encapsulate the experience in words and give it to another person. Instead they can only say: "Go to your grocery store, buy some orange juice, pour it in a glass, and drink it. Then you will know." - Sexercise, on 11/01/2009, -0/+2rofl that was the funniest ***** I've ever seen.
Dugg. -
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