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83 Comments
- jeffkee, on 11/17/2008, -2/+29All the sympathies put aside... It really is a waste to administer those expensive drugs when the person is dead. Pull the plug is my opinion. Not that I'm a heartless bastard.
- CitizenSimplex, on 11/17/2008, -6/+24Ugh. I read a report on this incident elsewhere. The parents agreed the kid was basically dead, but their religious sect forbade them from doing what they knew to be intrinsically right. Stupid sentimentalism, stupid religious practices.
- BeShirtHappy, on 11/17/2008, -2/+16This situation would be one of the hardest for a parent to face... so sad. Honestly I don't know what I would do in this situation. On one hand you have the question of "quality of life" and the other, the unbearable act of letting go.
- worldnick, on 11/17/2008, -0/+13This is not the opposite of what we usually hear.
- bluemist, on 11/17/2008, -4/+14It's hard picking a side on this one. On one hand, you have a family clinging on that last bit of hope to sustain a child's life. On the other hand, hospital staff may be rationally thinking that the equipment/resources could be better used to potentially save others who have better chances at life.
Neither is wrong. - aramova, on 11/17/2008, -3/+13People beware before you post comments, as you do *not* know what you'll do until you face this type of situation with a loved one.
Nor do we really know how aware that person is, so think long and hard about it, and for the love of all which does not suck, make a Living Will. Save your loved ones the agonizing pain of going through this. - jcorn1, on 11/17/2008, -1/+10Horrid, simply horrid. As a parent, hard to fathom, so painful.
- inactive, on 11/17/2008, -1/+10Brain-dead more like just dead
- Suricou, on 11/17/2008, -0/+8Actually, one is... the parents, as far as I can gather, did not have any hope to cling to. They knew perfectly well that the boy was never going to wake up. This isn't the usual situation where the parents are thinking that there might be a one-in-a-million chance of a miraculous recovery - they had accepted the finality of brain death. The reason they wanted him kept on support was religious: While the doctors consider brain death to be as good as total death for legal purposes, the jewish sect of which the parents are members recognises only the ceasation of breathing as grounds for declareing death - thus, so long as he kept breatheing, the parents were under a religious obligation to *keep* him breatheing.
- JohnFlux, on 11/17/2008, -1/+8Except the parents were saying no because of religious pressure, not because of their pain for the kid.
- Mujokan, on 11/17/2008, -1/+8Not what your child would want.
- awfulshot, on 11/17/2008, -0/+7Good thing you weren't born before the 20th century.
- Khast, on 11/17/2008, -1/+7What I don't understand, if the brain is dead, the rest of the body is dead. The idea that death occurs after the heart and lungs stop working? If the body is on life support to keep the heart and lungs working, yet there is no brain function, then wouldn't that count as being dead?
I am not heartless, but in cases like this, I don't believe there would have been a chance that the boy would've ever woken up. I can't imagine what it would be like to lose a child, but my sympathies go toward the parents. - comptonstomp, on 11/17/2008, -0/+6"Life is life" - Don't be so sure about that. He wasn't consciously aware of his existence and couldn't function. Just because the heart is beating and blood is flowing doesn't make you alive.
- xpinchx, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5I work in healthcare and this type of thing happens a lot. You'd be surprised how often parents aren't willing to let go of their braindead children. I'm not talking about a coma, but brain dead. It's heartbreaking, but there's no point in keeping a cadaver alive.
- allodude, on 11/17/2008, -0/+5This happens a lot with Mormon (I think the Mormons do it) families, but in reverse. They will actually refuse life-saving treatment for their child because of religious beliefs. It's odd how different religions can go about deciding lives.
- Cowmin, on 11/17/2008, -1/+6I really don't think it's a hard decision to take someone off a ventilator (actually an easy decision if said person is brain dead). Yes it's hard to see a loved one actually die. But it's not hard to make responsible decisions. What would have been the benefit of keeping his body going anyway?
- dansai, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4Kind of shows that even if in the future it's possible to transplant our brain into, just for example a robot, our brains can still die of age / brain cancer / etc.
- asgardshill, on 11/17/2008, -2/+6No parent should ever have to lose a child. I can't imagine being able to resist eating a firearm barrel first if it should ever happen to me.
- Suricou, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4It's a religious thing. The brain was dead, but some religions recognise different criteria for death, and parents will often pick and choose a criteria that gives hope. Thus some people will insist a braindead body is dead because the brain is completly broken beyond hope of recovery, while others will insist that as long as there is breatheing or as long as the heart pumps it must be alive.
It tends to get very emotional. Expect much poetic language. - comptonstomp, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4If the child has no sense of conscious awareness, and cannot ever regain conscious awareness, he is essentially dead. At that point I would have to pull the plug
- Nephrastar, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4This is horrible... no parent should ever have to be put through this situation, but it happens. I don't think we can imagine going through such pain.
- esteskid, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4you could have stopped at # 2
- inactive, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4"34. (of the mouth of a horse) no longer sensitive to the pressure of a bit."
Bravo, thanks for enlightening us all with that. - greevar, on 11/17/2008, -0/+4The child's was brain dead. Everything that person was is gone when the brain dies. I'm sad that this child had to die, it's never easy to out live your own child.
- Stevethegreat, on 11/17/2008, -1/+4A brain-dead person is not a person anymore, I'm sorry, he's just a collection of organs working aimlessly. Eveything this family knew and loved about that kid died with his brain, it was a waste of time to retain his body alive in the first place. Remember you can have a brain in a vat and still call it/him/her a person, you just can't have a body without functioning brain and call it a person though, the person died long ago.
I'm sorry for the family, hope this never have to happen in any family... - asgardshill, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3Et tu Terri Schiavo? Good Lord, don't get the kooks started on THAT soup sandwich again. I really did think that some Freeper or other flavor of nutbar was going to blow Michael Schiavo's head clean off during that debacle.
- deslock, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3This is the very situation my brother was in (I was a senior in High School at the time). Car accident, he went many minutes without oxygen but lived. As a result, the damage to his brain was extensive. He might have been able to live a long time on life support.
But honestly, I didn't want it that way. My mom had a hard time letting go for sure and to this day feels sad about his death but we all agree it was the right choice.
Certainly our religious background says to preserve life but I argue that being able to artificially keep something functioning when the mind is forever gone isn't life at all and it's against nature and God's will to pretend otherwise. And honestly, nothing would bring back the brother I knew and loved. Just my opinion and everyone needs to work this out on their own.
But if there is any advice I can give, don't let yourself believe that it is your responsibility if they live and if they die somehow it's your fault and your regret. You loved them, you shared memories with them and you'll cherish it and someday you'll unite again. And sad things happen but it all works out in the end. Be at peace. - Suricou, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3A point is made. Terri did get *very* political - her cause was appropriated by the state republicans. A law was rushed through the florida legislature which had no purposes other than to overrule a court decision, and even then-governor Jeb Bush got involved to keep the feeding tube in. All in order to score votes by very publicly demonstrating a commitment to being pro-life under even extreme circumstances. In all the politicing, the concerns of her parents were shouted down, and the thought of what would be best for Terri was completly forgotten as politicians instead decided what outcome they would gain the most by supporting.
- idontlikeyou2, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3You can take a heart out and plug it to a machine and make it beat, does that make it alive ? No.
Like Terry Schiavo, once you're brain dead, you're gone. - reticulate, on 11/17/2008, -1/+4I've told my loved ones that should I be in this state, pull the plug.
I don't want even a notion of any consciousness remaining that would realise what I'm putting them through if they kept me hooked up. Just pull the plug and let me go. - Cowmin, on 11/17/2008, -0/+3Yeah, except he wasn't breathing, a machine was doing it for him.
- aduzik, on 11/18/2008, -0/+2They left out some details. The parents had accepted the fact that their son was dead. But they tied up the scarce resources of a hospital because of their wacky religious beliefs. This wasn't a Terri Schiavo-type situation where the parents were in denial about their kid's chance of survival. It was all about their religious nuttery.
- Swivelstick, on 11/17/2008, -2/+4Sadly Jim you will die in a lot of pain
- KortoloB, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2He was already dead, and without help his heart and lungs would have probably failed very quickly. Since there's absolutely zero chance of him waking up, since he's braindead, there's no reason to keep him on life support. It's just wasting resources for other patients who need it. It sickens me..
Still, of course, it's sad that he died. - acdx1, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2For what, a brain transplant?
- noPCtoday, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2:(
- PopcornDave, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2Only when it's retroactive.
- rshanuk, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2They were killing the dead boy
- idontlikeyou2, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2I feel sorry for the family, but life support machines are expensive and a demanded resource. When you're brain dead, you're brain dead.
- somesthetic, on 11/17/2008, -1/+3what the hell were they waiting for?
Thank God they're not wasting precious hospital resources on their ***** anymore. - MarkOfTheDead, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2My family had to make the same decision. I am unbelievably sorry for your loss :(
- Mujokan, on 11/17/2008, -1/+3Conflict of interest alert.
- stregone, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2The kid was already dead. Brain dead doesn't just mean no brain activity, it means the brain tissue is actualy dead. Brain cells don't regrow and heal like skin and bone. Once its gone its gone forever.
- inactive, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2There is this thing calle oppurtunity cost... If he is using the machine, then someone else cann't. It is sad, but it is also the harsh reality of the situation.
- Suricou, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2The problem I have with these long, 'natural' deaths is they tend to ruin everything else in the body. His brain was dead, but the heart was running - and lungs, kidneys, liver, every organ right down to the corneas. A lot of people could have benefited, if it was just possible to start carving him up as soon as it was clear braindeath had occured and the chance of recovery was zero.
- Suricou, on 11/17/2008, -0/+2Nope. The parents, unlike many in such a situation, were under no delusion that there might be a miraculous recovery. They knew the child would never recover. They are just of a religious group that insists the body must be kept as functional as possible until the natural ceasation of breatheing.
- fuse13, on 11/18/2008, -0/+1"big city liberals". haha oh man.
i dont expect you to understand this, but pro-choice organisations would actually like to see fewer abortions. i suspect you will not be able to comprehend how this might be true. - Stevethegreat, on 11/17/2008, -0/+1I'm with you there, other people may had lived if people were educated enough to understand that as long as an individual goes "brain-dead" there is no possibility for him/her coming back. It would also solve the whole Schiavo's incident in a far easier manner.
We have had ZERO instances of brain-dead people coming back to life, but many of clinically dead people doing so, this should tell us something about how we should handle such situations, they're obviously different... - sphira, on 11/19/2008, -0/+1Prayers, sympathies, mercy
and freedom to the family to choose what is right -
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