What is Digg?108 Comments
- desert88, on 10/19/2008, -4/+30Maybe they should try a vet?
- lukak, on 10/19/2008, -7/+25ok, forgive my ignorance towards the american health care system, but can someone explain to me why people have to pay to be treated if they get sick? Here in Australia our communist overlords deemed it wise to treat people who are ill because it's a basic human right.
i don't want to take a side, but what's the logic behind it? Why isn't the state providing healthcare? - RedStateRetard, on 10/19/2008, -0/+15Insurance companies...they make mountains of money. Hundreds of billions of dollars are at stake.
On the TV commercials they are your caring friend. But when it comes time to pay your bill, they fight you tooth and nail.
"How do we know this isn't a pre-existing condition?"
"Liver transplants are experimental surgery, not covered by this policy. Who decides what is experimental and what is not? We do!"
"You lied on your application, you're not 5'11" you're 5'10". The reduction in height would push your BMI into "overweight. So you fraudulently underpaid you premiums for they last 5 years. Claim DE-NIED!.
"we owe our shareholders..." - catiealaska, on 10/19/2008, -0/+12why was everyone in health care hell speaking with a British accent?
- Straightlord, on 10/19/2008, -2/+13Contrary to popular belief, the USA does not have a free market health system. There are several key artificial controls that keep supply low and demand high, as well as an outrageous legal system which raises prices.
Artificial controls include:
The 2 American accrediting bodies (including the American Medical Association i.e. the doctor's union -major conflict of interest) controlling the amount of students who can go to school and graduate. 56% of qualified applicants - I'm talking straight A's and perfect SAT's - fail to get into Medical school. They keep the supply low and demand high so doctors don't compete.
It takes 11 years from a freshman in college to the end of your residency to become a doctor. Horribly inefficient, Europe is slightly better - roughly 9 years.
No competition among medical suppliers to hospitals (price fixing anyone?) and little competition between hospitals.
10 year approval process for the FDA for new drugs uses a tremendous amount of drug companies' resources.
Patent protection is too long and is essentially a monopoly enforced by the government. There needs to some way to balance competition among pharmaceuticals and at the same time award research and development.
Legal issues:
Medical malpractice suits -- drive up costs to both doctors and insurance suppliers and users tremendously. Doctor's are trying to cheat death here, and often, they cannot do the impossible. The costs of lawsuits have driven prices considerably.
The FDA approval process.
Health care was a lot cheaper and affordable for Americans 40 years ago. Health care is a lot cheaper in countries that do have "free market" medicine - Japan, Argentina, Brazil - it cost me 3 dollars to see a podiatrist there and 30 dollars for a emergency room visit. I'm not saying free market is the best, just that the USA doesn't have one. - atomsky, on 10/19/2008, -6/+17i ♥ blinky
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -2/+11Irvin, sounds like you got lucky. What if you came down with something more serious? Would a charity group be able to foot the bill for you for the rest of your life if you had a chronic illness?
- klick37, on 10/19/2008, -4/+12What the hell, I watched that whole thing. It was 6 seconds of message for 5 minutes of pain.
- alankem, on 10/19/2008, -14/+22I'm just curious on Digg's position on Universal Health care. Digg me up if your for it, Digg me down if you hate it.
- LiquidRAM, on 10/19/2008, -3/+10That basically sums up the difference between the United States, and Canada.
I'm glad I don't live in your country. You guys have issues.
Healthcare is a right because your health is not something that you can control yourself. Your health is the most basic right... it's the right to live.
I find comfort in knowing that in my country, everyone... even the guy sleeping on the street, has the same right to healthcare that I do. Americans talk so much about equality... but you have this insane essentially class based health system.
I was reading on here that average plans range from 8,000-12,000/yr!!! wtf is that all about. Who could even pay that? - solidwhetstone, on 10/19/2008, -0/+7Sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjuEdJ0DAGc
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -0/+6Companies owe there shareholders, and in many cases that makes for a good system. When it comes to deciding who lives and dies I see a conflict of interest.
- JohnFlux, on 10/19/2008, -0/+6radu79, are you serious? $8k won't even get you a hospital bed. You are looking at hundred of thousands of dollars if anything serious happens.
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -0/+4radu79, your item number 3 basically changes everything about what we are discussing. Since the vast majority of US citizens don't have that option I'm going to continue this without considering that one.
Your first point is true. So, let's assume you get hit by a truck tomorrow. You will be rushed to the hospital and your life will be saved. Then you go home. Let's say you have a heart attack, your life will be saved, then you get sent home. In either case you then still have to pay that bill or face collections and financial ruin. Let's say your 8K pays for the bills (doubt it) and you then have another emergency. You are back at square one. Still, they will save your life, but don't expect therapy or lifesaving medications.
As to your second point, going back to that you have 8K, earn interest and plan to get health insurance. Sounds great, but what if something happens tomorrow? The major concern I see is a chronic illness. Even one that is treatable and not life threatening is going to make you uninsurable. Even a minor illness is going to eat up your savings quickly.
Think of this, if you need a root canal your are looking at $3000 or having the tooth pulled (still around $300 in some cases). Go to any rural area in the US, where most people are farming. Make a few jokes about how noone over 50 has a full set of teeth. Then think about why that is, because it definitely isn't because they are deadbeats who don't work hard or try to plan financially or care about there health and image. It's because our system forced them to make sacrifices, and one of those was their teeth. - hollywoodphony, on 10/19/2008, -5/+9The only 'competition' that exists in the health care market is the competition to buy up different companies in your quest to become a monopoly and charge anything you want.
- Ymeg, on 10/19/2008, -4/+8A free market, by definition, cannot tax it's citizens to bail out companies.
It is also foolish to even think what we live in is a free market. The needless government regulation and action is what causes meltdowns. - JohnFlux, on 10/19/2008, -1/+5Um, food and shelter should be a right as well.
In the UK we provide council houses for those who can't afford a house and provide various benefits for those who couldn't otherwise afford food. Doesn't the US do something similar? - NikoKun, on 10/19/2008, -2/+6If other countries can have universal health care, so can we!
- yacks, on 10/19/2008, -2/+6The problem with your last line is that illegal immigrants are already getting benefits from our system.. They goto the Emergency Room and don't pay for their services which passes the costs on to us.. and also forcing hospitals to close their emergency rooms because they cannot "afford" to keep them open.
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -0/+4JohnFlux, we provide welfare programs which provide money, housing aid and food. We are also the most charitable country in the world, and churches and other organizations do a lot of good. Outside of the homeless, many of who have mental problems and aren't capable of seeking out these resources, noone in the US is going without food and shelter. So yes, we basically view this as a right already. Many of the people who argue against universal healthcare though also argue that those programs should be scaled back or stopped completely.
- LiquidRAM, on 10/19/2008, -5/+9Well, I live in Canada... starting Jan 1st, here in Alberta my monthly payments are ZERO $/mo, as apposed to the high $60/mo it used to be.
Everyone is treated equal... nobody is turned down... I can see a doctor any time I want... I can go to a clinic and get stitches at 3am if I need to without going to Emergency or something crazy like that... not to mention that I had never even heard of a "pre-existing condition" until I looked into the US system.
hmm... yeah, universal healthcare sure does suck... (sarcasm)
I can't help but laugh when people in the US talk about "socialized healthcare" and relate it to communism.. because we Canadians are communists 'Eh.
Not trying to be offensive... but the US system is retarded. - thall, on 10/19/2008, -1/+4LiquidRAM: doctors and hospital admins make a lot of profit. The Canadian health care system is far from a NON PROFIT system.
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3"Of course, if I have a heart attack or cancer or some other *****, yes, I am pretty much *****. But then again, if you get those problems you are likely ***** anyway, no matter how rich you are."
Only the young could make a statement like that. Trust me, life often goes on after a heart attack or cancer.
"Nevertheless, if I get health insurance tomorrow, I still have 8K bucks saved, which I can then spend on whatever I want unlike you"
Just because I have health insurance doesn't mean I don't have "8K bucks saved". In fact, I have substantially more than that. I think maybe you've missed a bit of my point here, I'm not for universal healthcare because I need or want it for me, I'm for it because I think we need it for you and the millions like you. You may say you don't want it, but that is because you are healthy, young and think you won't get sick. I hope you don't. - financedude2, on 10/19/2008, -1/+4citing Ron Paul doesn't make your argument valid
- castleking, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3Blinky doesn't have healthcare because he's a dog.
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3yacks, I didn't say it was my argument, I was basically playing devil's advocate. As for your comment though, there are many more citizens involved who go to the ER than there are illegals. I agree that indigents seeking ER treatment raises costs for everyone. I don't agree that is anywhere close to being overwhelmingly caused by illegals. I also happen to believe that universal healthcare would address this problem.
LiquidRAM, I love the US. I think the healthcare system is broken, but that doesn't mean I want to move to Canada. Country's have many things against them or for them. This is one issue, and one I obviously feel strongly about. But don't let your disagreement on how we handle one issue think you should look down your nose at us. - financedude2, on 10/19/2008, -0/+3$8000? That wouldn't do much even in Mexico.
- McNally, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3 > (just ask Ron Paul)
While you're questioning him, don't forget to inquire about HIS taxpayer-provided health care. - inactive, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2... as long as you don't mind paying for the whole 42, I say we throw the immigrants back in.
- Ymeg, on 10/19/2008, -5/+7Yes, people will still comment on it. This video is not proof that it is good.
Also, lets imagine how better the US citizen would be if, instead of the bailout, government health, outrageous regulations, market emulation, we had a system where competition lowered prices and innovation was not stifled by subsidies. - inactive, on 10/19/2008, -8/+10God bless the free market. First it gave us ***** like astronomical health care prices and then it had a nuclear meltdown and tax payers had to bail it out to the tune of a few hundred billion dollars. Now the government pretty much owns every bank in the US. Does that mean we are Marxists? If so where is our ***** free health care?
- inactive, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2It's okay to rob people, as long as it's for a good cause.
- mGARANDEUR1, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2Great, lets have the government run healthcare!!! They are so efficient at running everything else!
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3MasterChi - I never thought of it that way, something to consider.
radu79 - Well done. Now, if your situation exactly mirrors mine you'll have two months worth of medication saved up. You'll be able to go an extra two months before going bankrupt. Of course, if you contribute financially to your family and you are the one stricken and can't work for a year or so it won't make much difference. In that situation you'll have to use your savings for food and housing (basically what a real emergency fund should be used for anyway). In that situation you'll have to skip the medication, which means you'll undergo surgery and lose your colon, which means you'll wear a bag to ***** into which also will cost you probably a full years worth of salary. Assuming you get back to work soon you'll be able to move out of your house, find a nice apartment to rent, and spend ten years paying for your ***** bag. You'll be fine, unless you get sick again. - JerodSlay, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3There's not one answer. Insurance companies suck. Laws suck. Communism sucks. You can't just change one thing and it all be fixed.
- stonebear, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3Corrupt, actually. It's what your "minority" government plans for you.
- catiealaska, on 10/19/2008, -2/+4"you can negotiate parts of the bill, you can pay it off in years..."
sure, but sometimes at the expense of your kid's college fund, or your by taking out a second mortgage on your house, or by selling your house and having to moving somewhere else. Suddenly something like having an appendix burst or needing a new liver or kidney, or slipping on the ice and breaking your ankle in several places can turn into an event that alters your entire life. On the other hand, if you're rich it's an event that just disturbs a few weeks or months of your life. It just doesn't seem right to me. - RedStateRetard, on 10/19/2008, -1/+3"that do have "free market" medicine - Japan"
They have Universal Medical in Japan AND prices are dictated by the govt. - inactive, on 10/19/2008, -0/+2... as long as you're paying, no, it doesn't matter.
- Straightlord, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1I'm sorry, you're right. I was watching some Discovery channel thing about it late at night, must have gotten the countries mixed up.
- JerodSlay, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1I'm not saying they get sick because of the choices they make. I'm saying once someone gets sick, getting care for it from a doctor costs money. Just like food, TVs, etc. Let's say you're a plumber. Should people who get stuck toilets be entitled to your plumbing services for free just because? Should everyone in the country, many of whom don't have stuck toilets, have to pay taxes to the government, then the government pay you to unstuck the people's toilets? Why not let the people pay you strait up?
- Straightlord, on 10/19/2008, -2/+3First, some regulations are necessary to protect the public safety, I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Second, the FDA process shouldn't be removed, but 10 years is too long, removing drugs that can save people's lives and running up costs. Third, maybe the free market system isn't the best, but we don't have one.
- Scrooged, on 10/19/2008, -1/+2Let's say that every single illegal immigrant is in that number, and that we use a high estimate and say there are 18 million illegals. So we are left with 24 million US citizens. So, what about them?
- siszam, on 10/19/2008, -2/+3radu, I had to pay 45,000 for a minor surgery and a few days in the hospital. That was 15 years ago. How long will it take you to save up for that? How about cancer? Some drugs can costs thousands per day. I take 700 bucks a month in medication. Can you keep up with that cost?
- siszam, on 10/19/2008, -1/+2radu, I use to work in health care. You don't know what you're talking about. Doctors and hospitals routinely deny procedures to uninsured and underinsured patients. You can have insurance and still be denied life saving care. Watch Sicko and learn about the real world please.
- JerodSlay, on 10/19/2008, -2/+3Prepare to digg me down... Socialism is bad. people shouldn't be entitled to the labor of others (doctors) just because they're sick. Pay for the insurance, stop buying cheeseburgers, quit smoking.
down down i go....... - drunknmunky1, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration ...
Seems like a pretty reasonable set of basic rights that everyone one in the world should have. - brad3378, on 10/19/2008, -0/+1Dugg for knowing who David M. Walker is.
Welcome to my friends list. - ryanonfire, on 10/19/2008, -1/+2Australia is awesome my last medical bill was $2 ***** dollars!!!
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