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453 Comments
- sjug, on 04/29/2008, -9/+62People... This bill has not been passed!
Stop mourning the loss, and get active on the issue while we still can.
Read Bill C-51 here: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publicati ...
Find your local MP here: http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Parlinfo/Compilations/House ...
Let our elected representatives know that bill is not at all in the interest of the people. - Fhwqhgads, on 04/29/2008, -20/+70Canada seems to be following in the US's footsteps more everyday. Looks like freedom is becoming a thing of the past in ALL countries now.
- inactive, on 04/29/2008, -25/+58Hype! Please, the government will not arrest you for picking dandelions. It looks like "Big supplements" are worried about losing money. This is an area that needs regulation, right now people are chugging back herbal crap without proper advice.
You may now bury me. - almostfit, on 04/29/2008, -12/+45Unbelievable.
- formerfatguy, on 04/29/2008, -8/+39The other part of this story is that what happens here in Canada will then be duplicated in the US. When we stop it here, we have set some precedence. Even if you dont drink Wheatgrass juice, it's crazy to think that the gov't can tell me now to pick or grow wheatgrass and juice it without a prescription. Same goes for Dandelions
- Andrew7, on 04/29/2008, -15/+44This bill may be over-reaching, but the supplement industry (at least in the US, I can't speak for Canada) drastically needs regulation. As of now, no government body is authorized to test supplements. University studies have found many supplements that do not even contain the substances they purport to contain, or contain the substances in such high quantities as to be toxic. When you buy a supplement off the shelf, you have NO idea what you are getting.
- dancurranjr, on 04/29/2008, -7/+31Homeopathic Crap = Water. Period. End of "Debate." WATER
1 ml of a solution which has gone through a 30C dilution would have been diluted into a cube of water measuring 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 metres per side, which is about 106 light years. Thus, homeopathic remedies of standard potencies contain, almost certainly, only water (or alcohol, as well as sugar and other nontherapeutic ingredients). Homeopaths maintain that this water retains some "essential property" of the original material, because the preparation has been shaken after each dilution. Hahnemann believed that the dynamisation or shaking of the solution caused a "spirit-like" healing force to be released from within the substance. Even though the homeopathic remedies are often extremely diluted, homeopaths maintain that some healing force is retained by these homeopathic preparations. - 7fields, on 04/29/2008, -3/+25Well then, do I have something to sell you!
- catachip, on 04/29/2008, -11/+32"herbal" and "homeopathic" remedies should be subject to the same clinical testing as all other drugs. These so-called "natural" remedies are chemicals just like any other drug. Many of them interact adversely with prescription drugs. This is the only way to ensure the safety of drugs, traditional or not. If a drug is found to have no clinical effect, but be safe, then it can be sold, but with the disclaimer that only anecdotal evidence says it works, not scientific studies.
What is wrong with this approach? - Floogy, on 04/29/2008, -23/+44Anybody that gives homeopathic remedies to their kids, especially as replacement of scientific medicine, should be jailed for child abuse. People can put whatever remedies they want in their bodies imo, since they have the ability to choose. Children do not. Homeopathic medicine is pure pseudo-scientific *****. I don't give a ***** if you digg me down for saying so. Look it up. Realize what it is. It's water!
- ohnonotagain, on 04/29/2008, -3/+24I'm a pharmacist and therefore presumed to be biased, but I'm also informed as to the risks and benefits of both these and actual drugs- just because an herbal supplement isn't sold as a "drug" does not mean that they're not just as dangerous. Many of these "organic" nutritional supplements can be very dangerous. A bigger problem is the lack of any actual standards. 100mg of St John's Wort from one supplier is not anywhere near the same as 100mg from a different supplier. The makers of these supplements/ nutritionals/ nutriceuticals/ whatever you call them should be forced to demonstrate that these products are both safe and effective before they're marketed. The biggest problem is - we just don't know WHICH of them are safe and/or effective. Once that happens, I don't have a problem with them being marketed.
- asherchang, on 04/29/2008, -13/+32-2 diggs? Although homeopathic remedies aren't harmful as they are just water, sugar, or alcohol, they're based on a vitalist, ad hoc philosophy that has never been empirically verified. I believe in adaptogens like ginseng and lavender, but infinitesimally diluted "remedies" are a waste of money and giving them to your child denies him/her the benefit of something that acatually works!
- loaff, on 04/29/2008, -14/+33Oh no! Not all the treatments that have no evidence for their efficacy and little safety data! Don't take that away from the misinformed public! Seriously, homeopathy is ridiculous and people shouldn't waste their money on it. If anything the law will prevent frivolous spending. This is a step forward for evidence based medicine and skepticism. It would be like if fortune-telling was banned.
- GoneSouth, on 04/29/2008, -5/+23It's working great, thank you very much. Sure socliazed medicine has its problems, but Canada's health plan covers 100% of their population at an average cost per citizen less than half of US healthcare. Infant mortality is lower and life expectancy is higher than in the US. I recommend you take off the tin foil hat and start doing some reading.
- SaintDogbert, on 04/29/2008, -4/+21Well, that's a load of nonsense, since the US has almost NO regulations on supplements.
- inactive, on 04/29/2008, -6/+23because of ***** harper
- Midtowner, on 04/29/2008, -5/+21The trouble is that the homeopathic/vitamin market has utterly failed to self-regulate. Consumers are ill-prepared to investigate whether these products actually do what they say they'll do, or actually contain the chemicals they purport to contain. I can see a good case to be made for these things to be banned -- they're 99% snake oil.
My favorite example is "Ester C," a vitamin C supplement once marketed by Larry King. I recall the ads used to claim that this product was unique because this vitamin C was "acid free." That struck me as odd considering the fact that vitamin C is also known as ascorbic acid. - inactive, on 04/29/2008, -5/+20It's not so much that I don't understand how homeopathy works, I understand how it doesn't work.
- noumuon, on 04/29/2008, -1/+14actually, there's a fair amount of medicine that is based off of natural "supplements" when they've been shown to work. the chemical responsible is then isolated and packaged.
- Bukowsky, on 04/29/2008, -13/+26That's really sad... because there really are ALOT of beneficial health supplements.
- Vektuz, on 04/29/2008, -1/+13Now the Canadians will have to travel south to buy their herbal placebos while the Americans have to travel north (to Canada) to buy their cheap pharma drugs. Mays as well switch places.
- dig1x, on 04/29/2008, -4/+16I agree, why is this being dugg down?
This legislation is aimed at preventing the RIDICULOUS SCAMS that are taking place in the "health products industry".
I support legislation that will stop these con-artists from making false claims and exploiting people. This has nothing to do with "big pharma" and everything to do with homopathic-witch-doctors protecting their scams. - RyanP, on 04/29/2008, -2/+14If they are giving them it instead of medicine that can cure or help serious illnesses then yes.
- Bcodms, on 04/29/2008, -8/+20All a part of CODEX ALIMENTARY. This will happen in the US if citizens to not defend DSHEA. CODEX is a World Trade Organization quasi standards body. Citizens won't get to vote, or you will need to be a Indian medicine man to be able to consume these nutrients.
- evillawngnome, on 04/29/2008, -8/+19Any time you read the word "homeopathic", just put whatever item you're thinking about buying back on the shelf. Pseudo-science nonsense.
- Fhwqhgads, on 04/29/2008, -15/+26I bet they will try and get their despicable profit-driven healthcare system up here too. When that happens, I'm outta here.
- slvrbullet87, on 04/29/2008, -1/+12Some good examples of this are Asprin (willowbark) and Digitalis (foxglove). these are two of the most common drugs used and come directly from home remedies
- Fhwqhgads, on 04/29/2008, -5/+15... just because some mega corproation didn't spend millions of dollars on a study doesn't make the study unreliable. In fact, if the study is funded by the very people who have something to gain or lose from the results, it is not to be trusted by anyone with a brain.
- Animik, on 04/29/2008, -8/+18yeah but this bill does more harm than good by removing freedom of choice of medicine
- KraftDinner101, on 04/29/2008, -1/+11Although I do not agree with david, I only partly agree with yours. People are not directly killed by "natural stuff", but many are indirectly hurt or killed by them through misinformation provided by the people selling those products. Some people who need medical attention and chemical drugs that are affective enough to treat them take advice from a Herbal Expert and think that the herbs they get will cure them, and sadly, they do not.
- chazzwick, on 04/29/2008, -2/+12i do understand it and it doesnt work. how exactly does infinitely diluting down the active ingredient in homeopathic medicine somehow make it more potent? that goes against the laws of physics. sure, you may have had a good experience with homeopathic medicine, but it is most likely that it was either the placebo effect of the medicine, or a coincidence you got better at the same time. this is more likely considering people only really use homeopathic medicine for minor ailments, you dont see homeopaths trying to cure cancer or severed limbs do you?
numerous scientific tests have proved the worthlessness of homeopathy, why dont you, yourself, read up on the literature before you decide to trust something so implicitly - Fhwqhgads, on 04/29/2008, -8/+18Yes, because Big Pharma studies are always completely unbiased. Please. :rolleyes:'
Regardless, in a free country it should be up to the consumer what they take into their own bodies, without harming others obviously. that freedom is being taken away. - EnvEngineer, on 04/29/2008, -2/+11Sure they are.
That is like arguing that praying for your children while they die of diabetes isn't harmful. Sure the praying doesn't specifically cause harm, but the lack of REAL health care does. Same thing when you give your kids fake medicine instead of taking them to a real doctor. - XxtraLarGe, on 04/29/2008, -3/+12Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
- AaronSTL, on 04/29/2008, -6/+15Please consider the following:
- "Big Pharma" drugs are made of the same active chemicals that are found in natural drugs and supplements. The difference is that the "Big Pharma" drugs contain regulated and tested amounts of the active chemicals. The natural drugs and supplements are unregulated and the amounts of active chemicals can vary from brand to brand or even between bottles of the same brand.
- Some natural drugs and supplements can be harmful and require regulation. Some natural drugs and supplements (and Big Pharma drugs) dilute other drugs like heart medicines or contraceptives. "Big Pharma" drugs come with a warning of this. Natural drugs and supplements do not.
-Homeopathy is a fancy word for magic water. It does not work. Ask a homeopath to take a homeopathic remedy for malaria and then travel to West Africa where malaria can kill someone within 24 hours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy
Canada has the good fortune of having socialized healthcare. The Canadian government is trying to maintain its ability to take care of its people by not having to finance remedies that are dangerous, ineffective, or cause more illness. Be happy you have it. - whiteninja, on 04/29/2008, -1/+10placebo is a powerful thing
- teamd, on 04/29/2008, -1/+10"My favorite example is "Ester C," a vitamin C supplement once marketed by Larry King. I recall the ads used to claim that this product was unique because this vitamin C was "acid free." That struck me as odd considering the fact that vitamin C is also known as ascorbic acid.'
Actually, Ascorbic acid is just one form of vitamin c, there are many. Ester C = Calcium Abscorbate, which is more tolerable to the GI system in higher doses. - rhartman, on 04/29/2008, -3/+11INACCURATE.
One of the biggest issues Naturalnews claims to have with bill C51 is the proposed change of the word "drug" to "therapeutic product." Naturalnews then goes on to claim that therapeutic products will include herbs and things like dandelion leaves, but frankly I can't find it in the government posting of C51. In fact, right from the first reading of the bill:
Section 2 - “therapeutic product” means
(a) a drug,
(b) a device,
(c) cells, tissues or organs that are distributed or represented for use in
(i) the diagnosis, treatment, mitigation or prevention of a disease, disorder or abnormal physical state, or its symptoms, in human beings or animals, or
(ii) restoring, correcting or modifying the body structure of human beings or animals or the functioning of parts of the bodies of human beings or animals, or
(d) a combination of two or more of the things referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c);
The rest of the bill goes on to lay out what people and institutions may NOT do with regards to therapeutic products, but never mentions herbs, homeopathics or natural remedies in any form. Finally, the most laughable part about this article is that Naturalnews then suggests you go to www.Educate-Yourself.org for more information and the first thing presented on that site is a Truther style 9/11 Video ("9-11, The Greatest Act of Treason in American History").
I have to wonder if most of the commenters on this post bothered to read the article or the Bill, or just decided to sound off against the evil Government Pharma types that are so fun to rant and rail against. Wake up people. Whether it is some corrupt organization or just the great unwashed masses - if you can't take the time investigate and think for yourself, you are still being manipulated and herded like the sheep you are letting yourself be.
P.S. Big Pharma doesn't care enough about a small population of 30 million and it's equally small government to try and push legislation on it. - plutarch, on 04/29/2008, -2/+10Why is the parent of this being dugg down? There's no such thing as "alternative" medicine because conventional medicine will adopt supplements or remedies that are shown (via scientific evidence) to be effective. Likewise, extraordinary claims that don't stand up to rigorous scientific inquiry are rejected. There's no "conspiracy" here; these sorts of "homeopathic" or "holistic" remedies are nothing more than expensive sugar pills. Denial of science is a sure sign of quackery, and Mike Adams is the biggest quack of them all. I thought digg would be more up to date on scientific matters than the general public but it looks like I was wrong.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/altie_meds/mike_ ...
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/07/how_can_ ...
http://doctorrw.blogspot.com/2007/07/is-convention ... - dig1x, on 04/29/2008, -6/+14By reading the comments above, I see this website just got duped.
The pushers of lies and scams about dubious health products is under threat. And thank-gods its the case. These people lie and cheat their victims ENDLESSLY by playing confidence scams and making down-right false claims.
This is not about *big pharma* (they mention this in order to miinform you (I have NO love for For-Profit health *at all*, but this isnt about Big Pharma)).
This is about clamping down on the scams these liars and thieves are running to exploit Canadians. And I support that 100%. - GRANDPAMUNSTER, on 06/11/2009, -6/+13So natural products are bad, and chemical filled flu shots are better?
- Fhwqhgads, on 04/29/2008, -4/+11Exactly, Ebeach. Funny, diggers get pissed off about govt telling parent how to raise their kids when it comes to things like video games, but have no problem with this. Quite funny.
- 10001110101, on 04/29/2008, -2/+9I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again: Stephen Harper eats babies.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNew ... - Bilabrin, on 04/29/2008, -2/+9Where you gonna go?
- ArchieAndrews, on 04/29/2008, -0/+7Nothing as long as it is given as water for thirst and not marketed as a replacement for a real medication.
- Benno, on 04/29/2008, -3/+10On the other hand, I had the same condition as you but did not try any acupuncture after I stopped using my inhaler. My severe asthma just went away on its own. I'm not saying acupuncture doesn't work (I really don't know), but anecdotal evidence doesn't prove that it does.
- loaff, on 04/29/2008, -4/+11Yes, let's get the government out of healthcare. We should rollback the FDA so we can see ethylene glycol and thalidomide back on the market.
- fasda, on 04/29/2008, -0/+6is it ocean front property in Bolivia?
- RyanP, on 04/29/2008, -0/+6If there is proof please provide some. I'm not going to believe the conspiracy theory of big pharma suppressing evidence of these natural supplements. If there is evidence they work, other than a placebo effect, then I would support them.
- elliotys, on 04/29/2008, -0/+6Personally I think the American government needs to crack down on supplements. My primary reason is that their manufacturing is much less regulated than pharmaceuticals. This introduces the possibility of heavy metals, and toxic contaminants. Not to mention there is no way to verify what they say is in the supplement is actually there.
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