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Better Than Doctors: Mum Uses Internet to Diagnose Sick Girl

thisislondon.co.uk — A schoolgirl who has been left bed-ridden with a serious illness for six months, was only diagnosed after her mother looked up her symptoms on the internet. Danielle Fisher, 13, fell ill in October and doctors were baffled by her mysterious condition. They weren't able to successfully diagnose her until mum did research using the internet.

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  • magicjohnson, on 07/17/2008, -13/+42I just don't understand why doctors are so hesistant to use the internet. They should've searched the child's symptoms and figured out it was Lyme Disease a long while back.
    • thatfunman, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10I remember reading another article similar to this one with Lyme disease diagnosed except the doctors used teh Google after reading textbook after textbook. Maybe someone has the other link to the story?
    • dannyapplesauce, on 07/17/2008, -3/+51Because it's very easy to receive misinformation on the internet.
      • ileftfark, on 07/17/2008, -1/+37Not true. 89% of percent of all facts on the Internet are true.
      • leerayIG88, on 07/17/2008, -0/+12like goatse, meatspin, and rick roll
      • vkiperman, on 07/17/2008, -0/+33It's also very easy to get good information on the internet. A doctor should be able to tell misinformation from good information. And could easily cross check against other sources.
      • LordByr0n, on 07/17/2008, -0/+8True, but it can be used to spark an idea that the doc can than follow up on using credited resources or common doctor knowledge.
      • ammundsen, on 07/17/2008, -1/+17Its pretty easy to receive misinformation from doctors as well. Doctors tend to present their opinion as indisputable fact.

        Doctors cant know everything. Most of what anyone knows is simply what they were taught in school. Our understanding of particular disease processes might have changed considerably since a doctor was in school.

        Also, I find alot of doctors are more interested in treating the symptom rather than curing the disease.
      • tech42er, on 07/17/2008, -5/+1Exactly. I thought this would be a story from the Onion.
      • rayraym0fucka, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3That's why they PRACTICE medicine.
      • tb0n3r, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2"Also, I find alot of doctors are more interested in treating the symptom rather than curing the disease."

        - Or for that matter, *preventing* disease.
      • GoldYoshi, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1@leeray
        This right here is factual:
        http://www.zshare.net/video/152025765c455285/
    • sponeil, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10It's called a malpractice law suit. Doctors fear that above all other things, and as a result stick to reputable medical journals to get information.
      • macweirdo42, on 07/17/2008, -2/+4It's really simple - if you're stumped, you do a quick Internet search of the symptoms. The information, even though it is of questionable reliability, should at least point doctors in the right direction and allow them to check against the medical journals and such.
    • mywhitenoise, on 07/17/2008, -8/+7I don't know what doctors you see, but every doctor I've had just types in my symptoms into his computer and makes his assumption from that. Doctors are full of ***** nowadays, I could be a doctor!
      • gigigugit, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1No one's really stopping you...
      • Lewie, on 07/17/2008, -5/+9No kidding!

        When I switched contacts, my eyes became very red and irritated. I went to an ophthalmologist, described my symptoms AND the fact that I changed contacts, and concluded that I had an eye infection, giving me $200 worth of eye drops (after almost $200 for the visit). When I started wearing my contacts again, it came back, I went to a family doctor (GP) with the same story, and gave me another prescription of eye drops.

        After that didn't work, I looked up eye allergies to contact material and solutions, found a contact solution for sensitive eyes, and they've been fine ever since.

        In conclusion, ***** DOCTORS!
      • RedViper1999, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2Yeah you could all make the world's dumbest doctors.
      • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Are you sure he wasn't just typing in your responses to his questions in your electronic chart? Of course, maybe he was playing solitaire and ignoring your whiny ass, you can never tell for sure.
    • antoniuk, on 07/17/2008, -6/+9More like the mother did not give an accurate history of what had happened. Most people know when you get bit by a tick to see a doctor.

      This is not a news worthy story... buried
      • minorthreat, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7what? You go to a doctor every time you find a tick on you?
        its people like yourself that are making our insurance so high. If you lived where I am from you would have some high medical bills for nothing and you'd piss off alot of our doctors.
      • jasonalangraves, on 07/18/2008, -0/+8I agree, I'm a 4th year med student, and Lyme Borreliosis is rarely an initial diagnosis, nor is it even high on any list of differential diagnoses.

        In medicine, a diagnosis does not mean "yes, this is 100% for sure the condition you have", but rather, "based upon your symptoms, and what you are telling me, and your diagnostic studies..." you most likely have this. It happens from time to time that it is simply impossible for doctors to know exactly what is wrong in one moment. Some diagnoses can't be made until every other disease that can be diagnosed has been exclused. A diagnosis is valid until evidence arises which would indicate a more likely diagnosis. It is thus frequently an evolutionary process. As pieces of the puzzle are collected, a new and slightly different picture emerges.

        The internet is a useful tool. Sometimes it is useful and sometimes not. But what one must remember is that it would be unethical and unprofessional for a doctor to use a resource which has not been peer reviewed, evidence based, etc. Most of the information on the internet does not meet this standard. Just because a website says something is true, does not make it true, even if the website seems reliable. The standard a doctor uses for truth and reliability is different than the standard of a laymen. Thus a website must meet standards of truth and validity.

        And regarding lab studies, the Lyme titer would not be indicated in the absence of a compelling history given by the patient, characteristic appearance of skin lesions, etc. A doctor can't just order any test, there has to be a clear clinical indication, otherwise doctors would order a thousand tests for every patient at every visit, and nobody could afford this. Regarding Lyme Borreliosis, it would be uncommon to not have at least an initial skin lesion. Infections in Europe are also frequetly asymptomatic due to a slightly different type of spirochete. Borreliae are actually tolerated fairly well so it is not common for severe symptoms to occur immediately, another reason that this was not a likely diagnosis; It's important to note also that the length of time a tick feeds is quite important for transmission of infection. Generally speaking, a tick should be feeding for quite a long time, 20 or more hours, and after this amount of time, the bite is painful, like a bee sting, not something a patient would miss.

        Secondly, in this patients case, considering her age, the way she looks in the picture, etc., I personally would suspect a different type of spirochete, which is extremely common, and the disease I would suspect this patient had was secondary Syphilis. It would be by far a more likely diagnosis, and given the prolonged course, autoimmune Lupus would also likely be considered before Lyme Borreliosis. Psychogenic causality of symptoms would also be higher up on the list of differential diagnoses than Lyme.
      • cheeselord, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2I'm sure "Mum" wouldn't want to hear that her little Danielle has syphilis... Just a thought.
      • Pro28, on 07/18/2008, -1/+6It's never Lupus.
      • ratpH1nk, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3Echoing what the soon-to- be-doctor is saying, the diagnosis of Lyme Disease is starting to turn from relatively rare to more common, not in a good way we are finding and treating mroe cases. In a more "chronic fatigue syndrome" or "fibromyalgia" "restless leg syndrome" etc...kind of way. Come to a doctor with 6 months of non-specific symptoms and you will get lyme's diagnosis. There aren't very many labs in the country that do the test (UT Houston, my alma mater is one and Dr. Norris is one of the country's experts) and fewer know how to interpret the results properly.
        So, does she have Lyme's disease? Maybe, maybe not.

        For a good primer into this debate, please read:
        http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/ ...
      • daniellex, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0This is to cheeselord.

        Really, you think i have syphilis? I'm sure my mum would want to hear that, and i'm also PRETTY sure that if you ever comment a load of crap again, she's not going to let it slide!
        Ever since i got the treatment, i've been improving!
        :)
    • cutekelvins, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2They don't cheat. They are still in academia and learning things.
    • rpgmaker, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1"Mum Uses Internet to Diagnose Sick Girl..."

      Must be legit...
      • groo68, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1The article was very repetitive it said that for like half the article, and then it said what she had the other half, just paragraph after paragraph restating the previous paragraph.
    • Kerrigore, on 07/17/2008, -13/+6I am a doctor in real life.

      So I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies.

      Some of you guys are very good at making it sound like you know what you are talking about.

      But trust me... You don't.

      I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about.

      This is how bad info gets passed around.

      If you dont know about the topic... Don't make yourself sound like you do.

      Cuz some diggers will believe anything they hear.
      • mywhitenoise, on 07/17/2008, -0/+13"I think you just want to make yourself sound smart, when in reality you don't know what you are talking about. "
        "Cuz some diggers will believe anything they hear."

        ...says the 21 year-old "doctor".
      • itsradBrad, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4I find that unlikely. Because most health care professionals know that its useless to comment on Digg because people won't believe or listen to what you say.

        Also, if you were a "doctor" you'd refer to yourself as a Physician and you would probably use more professional language to show your point.

        Trust me, I am an ACTUAL health care professional.

        Oh, you do have a point though. People who are not educated in a particular field shouldn't pretend to have the necessary knowledge to provide proper advice.
      • a3r0, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1gb2fark
    • ChanM, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Yeah so everything you look for in the net is true. Your going to take the advice of some random stranger about a loved one's health. What happens if that person gets worse? Whose responsible for it? Is there a remedy to reverse it? Are you going to sue the anonymous poster for the damages?

      I don't mind looking for a solution if its a small problem such as dry skin but a serious illness needs a REAL Doctor's diagnosis. If the doc. is not 100% percent sure get a second opinion.

      Real life Doctor > Some random poster with a solution
    • Calcularius, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3That noise that comes out of a doctors mouth? It's still called an opinion.
    • wastelander, on 07/17/2008, -0/+9I am a doctor and I use the internet all the time--Google is a terrific clinical tool.

      I once had a patient who came to the ER deathly ill after having eaten what he thought were "wild carrot poisoning". A little Googling and I quickly figured out what he had actually eaten was probably water hemlock (like the stuff that killed Socrates). Fortunately he recovered.

      BTW if she had presented in New England, a Lyme serology would have been one of the first tests run.. its epidemic here.. along with Erlichia and Babesia (also tick borne illnesses). Its not uncommon to have a patient show up infected with all 3 at once!
      • itsradBrad, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Please don't tell me you would actually use Google to attempt to dx this girl.

        In the example you used Google is an obviously helpful tool but not in most cases.
      • wastelander, on 07/18/2008, -0/+5Why not use Google?
        Search "viral meningitis differential diagnosis"
        first article is from eMedicine http://www.emedicine.com/NEURO/topic697.htm
        In that article:
        " Other etiologies
        * Lyme meningitis manifests several weeks after the skin lesions have appeared but may occur while erythema migrans lesions are still present. Hypoglycorrhachia is not a prominent finding in the CSF. Facial nerve palsy, sometimes bilaterally, may be observed."

        Obviously your going to want more information than that to make a diagnosis, Google "Lyme meningitis" and you come across this nice little review (peer reviewed) article:
        http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050715/297.html

        Of course when you use Google you will no doubt end up sorting through a lot of crap, but that's where your clinical judgment comes in. Its no substitute for PubMed or other clinical references like UpToDate but it can still prove pretty handy. If nothing else it might pull up a diagnosis you hadn't yet considered and send you back to your more traditional references to read up on it.
  • aphonik, on 07/17/2008, -8/+85Doctor: Tell me patient, does it burn when you urinate?
    Patient: I don't know. I've never tried to light it.
    • ayeroxor, on 07/17/2008, -1/+28"Do you smoke after sex?"

      "I don't know; I've never looked..."
      • TyCage, on 07/17/2008, -0/+10If you smoke after sex, you are doing it too fast.
      • Gizza, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Or need to use a better lubricant.
  • 0Xonox0, on 07/17/2008, -27/+6You spelled "Mom" wrong.
    • aphonik, on 07/17/2008, -5/+211. If it was spelt wrong, does it really matter?
      2. Its not spelt wrong. 'Mum' is the common spelling in the UK, which is where the article originates.
      • Airloss, on 07/18/2008, -12/+2This site is an American site, you wouldn't start typing in Hindi if the article was from India.

      • xonkonog, on 07/17/2008, -10/+4do you mean "spelled"?
      • twiztidsinz, on 07/17/2008, -2/+6I know lots of people in the US who call their mother by "mum".
      • Hockey13, on 07/17/2008, -2/+11This site is owned and operated by Americans. The site is not an "American site," whatever that means. We welcome a world audience here. I think most educated Americans welcome the diversity that our UK friends bring. Mum/mom...what's the friggin difference?
      • Airloss, on 07/18/2008, -8/+2He used the logic that the site was from a .uk he could use words from that language.

        It most certainly is an American site, the content however is broad.
        You wouldn't go to a Russian site and start spelling words in a different language simply because you don't come from where the site was made, you would write what the website wrote. Last time I checked digg uses American English.
      • Acglaphotis, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3Well, you checked wrong. There is no authority here to prevent comments and/or submissions in other languages, nor enforcing a particular dialect of any language.
      • Lewie, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/84/
      • DaHuuuuuudge, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2@xonkonog
        In a lot of English-speaking countries other than the US the used a "t" instead of "ed" in most words.
    • Ramble, on 07/17/2008, -6/+3Yes, you did.
    • ErrorLoading, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2who ***** cares? apparently you retards.
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0^ hahahhaha. lmfao
  • dannyapplesauce, on 07/17/2008, -11/+160teh internets - 1 / Doctors - 847,949,290,001
    • NiceToMEETyou, on 07/18/2008, -3/+11Seriously.

      Judging by the comments half of digg believes they're smarter than doctors because they can look up something on the Internet...as if it wasn't possible to do this before. You could purchase a bunch of medical textbooks, and get some idea or insight as to what you might have..

      But just because you looked it up doesn't make you smart. Gotta know what you're looking for.

      It's the practice and training you get that allows you to be good at any job...
    • TaterSalad77, on 07/18/2008, -1/+8Agreed. I work in healthcare so I speak a lot with doctors. I can recall numerous accounts where doctors are complaining about a stubborn patient who rebukes their advice with "Well, I read on the internet...". I'd be insulted too if I had 4 years of undergraduate, 4 years of medical school, 2 - 6 years of residency, 2 - 4 years of fellowship under my belt and some tried to tell me they know more than I do.
      • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+5Sadly, if I relied on the opinions of doctors, people I love would be dead right now. It's only been my own intelligence and research on the Internet that's given me the answers to questions that the typical GP doesn't have the faintest clue about.

        So, while doctors have years of training and experience, the Internet, if you know how to search well and read critically, provides information with the combined knowledge of MILLIONS of man years of research that no single doctor could EVER hope to match.

        Especially about potential side effects and dangerous interactions between drugs.

        More doctors should learn how to use Google. The Internet should be required reading now for all of them.
      • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0yeah.
        and i dont think dominiue wasnt slagging off doctors at all.
        She had two on her side, she went to see a specialist to get it confirmed with SEVERAL blood tests.
        the media and papers are twisting this story right around.
  • wildsnake, on 07/17/2008, -4/+106 months? My doctor says if the problem isn't gone in 7 days, it should be looked into.
  • Darren07, on 07/17/2008, -3/+107I diagnosed myself a lot of times through the Internet. Then I went to the doctor.

    He said I was a hypochondriac.
    • maxhrk, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2Sound like you got cured before you went to see the doctor.

      In fact, when I got dizziness occasionally so, I went to check the internet to find out why I has it and it seem internet really have plenty info about dizziness. mhmm!

      that's something.
      • DarkProd, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2A lot of people helping to cure dizziness, 'cause most of the web-surfers watch too much porn and get dizzy.
    • xonkonog, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3Ive been told Psychosomatic, and my pain is very real. doctors can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
      • thumperings, on 07/17/2008, -0/+7the one who told her she needed a psychiatrist deserves a follow up appointment for a punch in the face. I'm so sick of smug ***** doctors who barely listen and often get things totally wrong.
      • ryan10230, on 07/17/2008, -1/+0Being psychosomatic doesn't mean that the pain isn't real. If you actually want to learn about it, Dr. Sarno has some good books. John Stoussal of 20/20 did a show about it a while back which got me interested in it.
    • cutekelvins, on 07/17/2008, -5/+3I went everywhere for my treatment. I went to allopathic first and then internet, homeopathic, ayurvedic and even to a person who doesn't have a degree. Doctor told without surgery I could not have survived for more than 7 days. I'm still alive without any surgery and I'm okay and 90% cured!! ***** Doctor. After getting cured I wrote a blog on how I got cured and it's a very popular blog.
      • nerdherder, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5huh?
      • HakonD, on 07/18/2008, -1/+2I refuse to believe that blog is "very popular" unless you hired someone to write for you.
    • rob2uk, on 07/28/2008, -0/+0Hypochondria is the only thing I DON'T have
  • Mononuclear, on 07/17/2008, -4/+32I recently had to diagnose myself on the internet. I went to the doctor and he had no clue. I went to a specialist and he also had no clue. I then found the problem on the internet and I went back to the doctor and told him "This is what I have, here is the medication to treat it" He looked something up on his computer and said "sure enough yep that's it". The only reason I went back to the doctor was that I needed a prescription for the medication.
    • thumperings, on 07/17/2008, -4/+2what was it? hpv?
    • ammundsen, on 07/17/2008, -1/+13SOB still got paid.
    • jerrycurley, on 07/17/2008, -11/+2Gotta claim ***** on this.
      • ErrorLoading, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3I always diagnose myself before going to the doctor. Same damn thing for me. My main health insurance cost is getting a ticket to antibiotics.
      • Mononuclear, on 07/17/2008, -0/+6I can show you the pictures if you want and the blog post I wrote about it. You can actually look at my comment history and find a link to the pictures and the story. Or do a google search for Ancylostoma Braziliense and see my blog. I was living in Brazil and picked up Cutaneous Larva Migrans which is a type of hookworm that only penetrates the skin but can't get into your bloodstream. I had a big red squiggly line running all over my foot from the burrow of the worm. No doctor here in the US has any clue what it is or has ever seen it. It isn't at all common here in the US. When I went back to the doctor he called in all the other doctors working there and they all came in and looked at it to see what Cutaneous Larva Migrans looks like.
      • lysdexic, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2I've diagnosed myself a few times before going in as well, and the doctors have agreed each time and treated it accordingly. One even told me I did "good research", but all I did was a search on google.
      • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -2/+0@Mononuclear: Ancylostoma braziliense? Ok well as long as it wasn't something totally obscure. You're right, doctors should have an encyclopedic knowledge of every disease and pathogenic organism on the planet. You know, just in case your dumb ass happens to drink water or get bitten by a bug in the Amazonian rainforest down the street.
    • SphinxatUF1, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2This is pretty much what I do whenever I need to go to the doctor. I had poison ivy and was told it was shingles? WTF! I just treated it like poison ivy (have had it numerous times in the past), and it went away!
      • unpolloloco, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3so.....why did you go to the doctor - other than to drive up insurance premiums for the rest of us?
      • SphinxatUF1, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0I went because I was wanting him to write me a prescription for poison ivy meds...

        It took A LOT longer, but it did eventually go away without them. How does my using my health insurance drive up your premiums? Either way I was going to the doctor, and an office visit costs the same whether I had poison ivy or shingles so....?
    • buddyw, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4Sounds like you need a new doctor...
      • Protonz, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1If you live in Canada, that isn't as easy as it sounds.
    • doncarajo, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Must have been serious if you just needed a script and you don't even know the name of the condition!
      • Mononuclear, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1who said I don't know the name of the condition?
  • YancyFryJr, on 07/17/2008, -2/+73Put in any symptom on WebMD and BAM! Cancer. Give it a shot.
    • str1fe, on 07/17/2008, -0/+29Same with Wikipedia, to an extent. I typed in "eye twitching" and got either "cronic dry eye" or "brain stem cancer".

      The internet is out to turn people into hypochondriacs.
      • WhoDoneIt, on 07/17/2008, -4/+1ALS. :)
      • Acglaphotis, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5Eye twitching is common after a lot of pepsi. Trust me on this one.
    • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0Clots, tumors, and (surprisingly) syphillis - almost any symptom can be linked to them.
    • scojerroc, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3IT'S NOT A TOOMAH!!
  • IllBeBack, on 07/17/2008, -6/+52Ordinarily, people attempting to diagnose themselves using the Internet get it wrong. Just because one person got it right this one time can't negate the expertise of a real diagnostician.
    • drwaterside, on 07/17/2008, -0/+19Use the internet as a tool to educate yourself NOT a tool to diagnose and treat your condition
    • paulsabo, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Someone likes House...
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0Thats exactly what dominique did. She did not diagnose her daughter, she educated herself and then took the suggestion to a LYMES DISEASE specialist who then did A BLOOD TEST to see if she had lymes disease.
      The blood results came back STRONGLY positive and the girl was then given three months iv treatment to be followed by oral antibiotics.
      Please get the story right if your going to talk about it, and try and say the mother diagnosed her without any proof, she didnt.
  • Ramble, on 07/17/2008, -4/+18Great, what about the thousands of cases where someone does this, misdiagnoses themselves and is then a screaming bitch to their doctor because they think they have some rare disease only caught by eating mushrooms of the Amazon.
    • ammundsen, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3Then the doctor still gets paid for the office visit.
    • Lewie, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2That's because most people are ***** retarded. Common sense and a tool like the internet CAN be used successfully.
    • xxaznarsonistxx, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0that wouldn't be too far off if the screaming bitch DID eat mushrooms from the Amazon
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0In many cases this happens. But I'm pretty sure the girls mum was stressed out and worried. She didnt just say, my daughter has lymes, she had a blood test done, which came back highly positive, AND THEN danielle was being treated.
      Her mum wouldnt have just diagnosed her herself.
      she used the internet to educate herself, and then went to a specialist.
      People who diagnose themselves online, are wrong, people who educate themselves, like dominique did, are right.
      Get your god damn story right.
  • dmark77, on 07/17/2008, -2/+50Everytime I diagnose myself on the Internet it always says "or Cancer".
    • shawn1122, on 07/17/2008, -0/+13This is so true, its almost like any set of symptoms can be caused by some form of cancer. If you really want to scare the ***** out of yourself, the internet is the first place to go.
    • groovadelic, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2Try checking for the symptoms of "Depression" I never knew I was soo depressed!!
    • RoboRay, on 07/17/2008, -0/+2It's not a tumor!
    • arcticblue, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2You're right. I had a hard ball develop in my tongue last week so I checked the internet first to see if I should even worry about it. First result: Cancer. I couldn't believe that so I kept looking. The most probable explanation I found was blocked saliva duct caused by a calcium deposit. I went to the dentist earlier this week and that's what he said too, although he wasn't 100% sure because if it is a saliva duct, he thinks it should be more to the left. He referred me to a hosptial and I'm going today to have it removed.
      • arcticblue, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2I just got back from the doctor. If anyone's coming to this late and wondering what I have in my tongue, it's a benign tumor. It'll be taken out next Saturday.

        Don't rely on the internet for self diagnosis. It's great to look up your symptoms to get an idea of what you may have, but let a real doctor give you a proper diagnosis.
  • stutimandal, on 07/17/2008, -8/+3Insurance really destroys the value of the social health-care system.
  • damian7, on 07/17/2008, -4/+61IT'S LUPUS
    • MasterBeowulf, on 07/17/2008, -1/+58It's NEVER Lupus.
      • twiztidsinz, on 07/17/2008, -0/+23I miss House :-(
      • leetdood, on 07/17/2008, -0/+19Except for the one time that it was.
      • gigigugit, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3NOT TRUE!!! I just saw a guy a couple of weeks ago in the ER with lupus! No joke.
    • bledig, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Isn't there a similar house episode involving ticks or something. Where house actually(haha) peeked into the vagina and found it?

      Ah House...
      • AeonTorpor, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1If i remember correctly there's actually two episodes involving lyme disease. One is the vagina tick and the other is when that kid had a tumor on his face and the discoloration of the bite was behind the hairline.
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0lupus is not even an illness. its a load of made up crap.
      :)
  • mrgodai, on 07/17/2008, -3/+5self internet diagnosis should be mention to the doctors you visit, but don't rely on it 100% and use it to argue with doctors.

    always always get 2nd, 3rd or even 4th opinions from different doctors
  • RivalJr, on 07/17/2008, -4/+1Wiki-Heal-ia FTW
  • ElBeh, on 07/17/2008, -10/+3That chick is pretty hot.
    • leerayIG88, on 07/17/2008, -0/+13she is 13 years old..
    • ElBeh, on 07/17/2008, -1/+5So? That's the same age as the average digger. Don't make assumptions about my age!
      • DaHuuuuuudge, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1But according to your profile you are 99.
    • Acglaphotis, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Pedobear's in the house!
    • xxaznarsonistxx, on 07/18/2008, -1/+0nasty *****. go on the internet and diagnose your eye problem
      • daniellex, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0woah, your so nice about me :) not!
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0she's ill!
      i dont know if you guys saw the documentary that just came out, they were showing before pictures but before she got ill i noticed she was actually really pretty, she still is, but do you look like mr or mrs stunning when your sick?
  • aserer511, on 07/17/2008, -13/+2Only in socialized healthcare ;)
  • leerayIG88, on 07/17/2008, -2/+6I wonder if the mom used the Yahoo! Answers discussion board for help?
  • bbqsalad, on 07/17/2008, -8/+3Yeah, but will she blend?
  • Mistoffelees, on 07/17/2008, -2/+11My girlfriend has the tendency of diagnosing herself everyday for every little ailment she has. The internet can provide insight in medical predicaments of course, but I'm getting pretty ***** tired of hearing about the self diagnosed cancer/AIDS/whateverhorribledisease everyday.
    • jonnyfatman, on 07/17/2008, -0/+15You should probably keep an eye on the 'AIDS' one ;)
    • aki42, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1It may annoy you but for others it can be very helpful.
  • IronChef69, on 07/17/2008, -1/+17The internet? Pfffft! I could have diagnosed that by watching a single episode of House.
  • kurejibitch, on 07/17/2008, -2/+9I remember reading about how the author Amy Tan (shut up, we're not talking about her books here) went through the same exact thing: doctor to doctor, all across the country, for YEARS. Apparently there's only two tests to diagnose Lyme Disease, and they refused to give her either one because she didn't live in Middle Of The Woods, Nowhere (thus they assumed it was impossible she'd get bitten by a tick). She finally found a reputable Lyme-knowledgeable doctor who diagnosed her almost immediately, before the test results came back positive. Because it took her so long to find out what was the matter, she still goes through 'hazes' some days, almost Alzheimer-like, unable to move, forgetful, and hallucinating. Sad. I had no idea before that it was such a difficult disease to bear with, and to even get diagnosed for.
    • DrDigg, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1The problem is the tests for lyme disease are not very good. They frequently have false positives. So it is usually not recommended to even check the titers in most areas. There are a lot of people who think they lyme disease because of a bad test. Most good doctors realize this and unfortunately there are a lot of charlatans who pass themselves off as lyme experts.
    • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0yes. if you want a proper blood test, you have to have it done and sent to america.
      There are lots of false negatives to, if done with the nhs.
      I know that danielle had two tests, both, and both were positive.
  • tykwondingo, on 07/17/2008, -9/+3It's NOT Lupus.
  • visionaryIX, on 07/17/2008, -9/+7Sorry, this is not the sort of thing we should be advocating.

    People don't spend however many years it is at med school to be upstaged by websites which commonly have no accountability, citations or authority. There is no guarantee that the medical advice out there is right or current.

    If you're not sure about what your doctor said or did, get another opinion. I realise the article is perhaps an exceptional case, but self diagnosis definitely should not be encouraged.
    • ammundsen, on 07/17/2008, -1/+6Well, as long as they hold the power of the script dont worry about them being put out of business.

      I've gotten dated, incorrect information from many doctors. So I think the internet has some value. But I do agree getting more than one opinion is a great idea. Of course the choice of word 'opinion' tells us alot about a doctors diagnosis.
    • Bl00dGr00ve, on 07/17/2008, -1/+0why shouldnt we be advocating this exactly? If we have the time to research on the internet, provide the results to the doctor and let him decide arent we just saving some of his valuable time.
      • unpolloloco, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1The internet can be used as a tool to help in diagnosis - by using it as a definitive source, you are setting yourself up for some serious issues. I'd be more apt to trust the person with 4 years of training + an insanely long residency over the rantings of a delusional hypochondriac on a random blog. That said, the internet can be used as a tool to come up with possible diagnoses - that the doctor can test for.
    • mmmcookies, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5People need to be more involved in their own healthcare. You cannot just go to a doctor, assume he/she knows everything, and do exactly what they say. You have to take some responsibility for your self. It is certainly good to work with a qualified expert, but managing your health really does need to be a team effort.

      This mom wasn't getting results, and thanks to her diligence her daughter now as a chance at recovery (although persistant or chronic lyme is very difficult to treat, and it is probably too late for antibiotics alone to help)
      • RedViper1999, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2This is exactly right, I hope I get patients like you.
    • gigigugit, on 07/17/2008, -0/+0Its not that hard to diagnose yourself, but try doing your own surgery...
    • UnixSkunk, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Wrong. If you spent 6 months going to doctors, trying to figure out what a problem is, and multiple doctors have FAILED to diagnose your problem, it is your right and your responsibility to try and help yourself.
      If helping yourself includes going onto the internet, collecting information on all the illnesses which have the same symptoms as yours, then going to a doctor and offering him the information, THATS WHAT YOU DO. Why? Because the doctors failed.
      There is a reason why a business/profession of a doctor is called a "Practice". They dont know everything, and over years, they get better at diagnosing illnesses(One would hope), through practice. In the meantime, they run into a LOT of things they know NOTHING/very little about.
      They should be using the internet to research problems, and then using their training to help narrow down which illness is most likely.
      • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0You're somewhat right, it *can be* beneficial when a patient comes in having done some research on their health. What doctors get frustrated with is the presentation. Example: Patient 1 comes into the office and says "This is what I have, a rare disease from an Amazon mosquito, and by the way I forgot to tell you one bit me the last three times I came in. That shouldn't matter though, WHY DIDN"T YOU FIGURE IT OUT?!?"
        The doctor rolls his eyes, writes a prescription. Patient 2 comes in and says "I looked up some information about SymptomXYZ and it mentioned an amazonian mosquito disease. I went to the amazon a few months ago and was bitten by mosquitoes, do you think it could be this?"
        It's all about presentation. Assuming from the start that you're smarter than the doctor is going to get you sarcasm and you'll be the topic around the water cooler for a while. Bringing in some research, presenting it as a possibility and accepting if the doctor rules it out will get you much further.
    • aki42, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2No this actually happens often with people who have lyme. Most of the time it takes a couple months or more just to find a doctor to treat you.

      In fact it happened to me and some other people I know.
    • devinbunker, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Self-diagnosis is bad? Wow, you are completely wrong.

      It's my body and it's my responsibility to take care of it. I know a guy who had severe and nearly constant twitches in one of his eyelids; he went to a half-dozen doctors over the course of two years, all of whom said it was either stress or generally poor health. Of course, neither was true -- he exercised regularly and ate pretty well, and the twitch wouldn't get any better even during a two week vacation. Finally, he started using Google and discovered that he had Hemifacial Spams (HFS), which is a known problem where a blood vessel pinches a nerve in your head. In fact, a recognized expert in HFS worked at the closest hospital. Within a month he had surgery and has been perfectly fine since.

      Doctors are obviously important and are usually much more adept at diagnosing problems than non-doctors. However, to say that self-diagnosis is bad and should be discouraged is stupid. A doctor is not Google, and Google is not a doctor: let each serve its purpose.
  • CLAWC, on 07/17/2008, -4/+3The interwebz is ok to use sometimes. just be careful what advice you follow & find multiple sources
  • borez, on 07/17/2008, -2/+2I googled the symptoms halfway through reading that ( just to see if I could reach a similar diagnosis without knowing the true cause ) and found this straight away:

    http://www.canlyme.com/Karen_Lipsett_Kidd.html

    So much trauma from such a little tick.
    • DewKnight, on 07/17/2008, -0/+4My brother had Lyme. The docs ignored it for 10 years. Our family had to pay for treatment ourselves because the doctors said that it was impossible it was Lyme. It's some tough stuff.
  • ileftfark, on 07/17/2008, -2/+3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT38yJGzR48

    Who remembers this?
  • kronzdigg, on 07/17/2008, -3/+3Dr. Google is in the house. Im sure it won't be long before Dr. G can perform an appendectomy.
  • lowfalls, on 07/17/2008, -7/+2Yeah, stupid doctors. Who needs em anyhow?
  • ObscuredCelery, on 07/17/2008, -2/+9I always go on the internet. It's not rocket science to know your symptoms and punch them into google. Also it's not hard to tell what's a reliable source. I would never do anything rash without consulting a doctor.... obviously I wouldn't try to do surgery on myself or do my own blood tests or anything but there has been a few times when doctors gave me the run around and the internet gave me straight forward answers!
  • Owwmykneecap, on 07/17/2008, -2/+4House would have done it no bother, well after he stopped annoying/flirting with cuddy..
  • sgvprelude, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1A lesson learned here....clean your sheets regularly.
  • lestyoubejudged, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5This happened to me a few years ago when my husband had complications from Spinal Meningitis, they did not move him to an ICU ward until I came to the doctor with a concern that he was hyponatremic from SIADH, which is rare but can occur with Meningitis. The doctor asked me if I was in the medical profession (I am not). I believe every patient with a serious illness should have an advocate (preferably a family member or friend) to attend every doctor visit and they should take copious notes and ask questions until they understand.
    • ammundsen, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3Great point about having an advocate. My dad stopped the doctor from giving my grandfather a medicine that probably would have killed him after he had suffered a heart attack.
  • romanboy, on 07/17/2008, -4/+8The NHS (national health system) in the UK is a joke... but it's free.
    • mmmcookies, on 07/17/2008, -3/+3The US system won't diagnose lyme either. It is a very, very touchy issue and doesn't get diagnosed or treated properly as often as it should
    • cheekiej, on 07/18/2008, -1/+4National Health Service... not system.
    • haelios, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Free? Tell that to healthy people who pay taxes... like me :)
  • toyrifle1, on 07/17/2008, -3/+0the internot, yes you "can sir". You saw it here first.
    Sorry, I make no sense.. sometimes that happens on the interwebs. Ever noticed?
    But that also happens with people.

    "Dust is matter in the wrong place" -Mikhail Bakunin.
  • viserov, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3"You've got leprosy!"
  • Jesse, on 07/17/2008, -0/+5Ugh... more anti-intellectualism from the interwebs. Let me guess: You think Wikipedia should be used as an academic source?
    • spectecjr, on 07/17/2008, -1/+1That's anti-intellectualism?

      Most people in the medical field are either very specialised, or only see people for 15 minutes max. They don't keep up with the latest research. And there's a LOT of different diseases out there.

      AI Expert Systems were originally used as an aide to medical diagnosis exactly because most doctors can't (or don't want to) keep it all in their heads. And being overworked and rushed off their feet generally means that they can't do as good as job as someone with a bit of critical thinking and an internet connection. Especially as that person doing the search is typically going to include all of the symptoms, not just the ones that people generally tell their doctor. (I've seen my fiancee have 10 symptoms, and only mention 3 to her doctor - mind you, she hates doctors - even though she had many many more).

      As a test, try this: if you're diagnosed with carpal tunnel or tendonitis, ask your doctor to check for a compressed nerve in the thorassic bundle. Usually this can be caused by boils, or inflamed lymph nodes in your armpit (the nerve bundle runs close to the surface there, and is easily squished, causing all of the sensations associated with carpal tunnel). If it's an inflammation or a boil (ingrown hair, whatever), a quick course of antibiotics will usually make it all go away.

      It's easy to check too - just put a warm compress in your armpit, and squeeze down gently. If the pain goes away rapidly, it's not your wrist - it's your nerves in your pits.
      • gigigugit, on 07/17/2008, -0/+0I think you meant to say thoracic. But what you should have said was axillary.
      • nerdherder, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1omg its so long...
      • Jesse, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Yes, titling a submission about the internet's scattershot diagnosis techniques as "Better Than Doctors" is anti-intellectualism. The internet is just a tool, but if you'd rather rely on that than a doctor then whether or not you get the diagnosis you deserve is a matter of luck, but you'll definitely get the diagnosis you deserve.
  • Evilblobs, on 07/17/2008, -0/+1Tell me when the internet can perform surgery, then I'll come back.
  • redxninja, on 07/17/2008, -1/+3Got some helps from internet favorite Dr.Pedobear.
  • uselessexpert, on 07/17/2008, -7/+8A lot of doctors, regardless of how nice they are have a god complex.
    They feel since they have spend all that time in school, and learning no one can't teach them anything.

    It sucks when they are this full of themselves and so ignorant that they think they can't learn something by researching on the internet.

    Thank god this lady did!
    • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2A lot of patients, regardless of how rare a website says a condition is, have a condition known as "hypochondria". They also tend to have god complices, being so full of themselves and so ignorant that they think they can't be wrong because they researched it on the internet. Godhood vs. godhood, I'm betting on the doctor being right more times than Google.
  • kingUssop, on 07/17/2008, -4/+5That's a good way to get your Doctor on their high horse about you diagnosing yourself. Of course they also charge you $100 a visit even if they can't help you with anything, so you've got to wonder sometimes.
  • schmitey, on 07/17/2008, -3/+2I confess, I live in the midwest where ticks are a common occurrence (coworker and I counted 100+ ticks crawling on us one day while walking through waist high grass cutting down cedar trees). I have never once been bitten without the tick still being attached...you take a shower and you can feel it. Then you watch it for a week to see if it becomes a swollen red mark, if it does you get it checked out. I understand that she didn't go trekking in the woods, but I don't see how she wouldn't have known she'd been bitten! If she had been able to tell the docs she'd been bitten by a tick I assure you the diagnosis would have come a lot sooner! I'm sorry, I gotta blame some of this on the girl! Those little buggers latch on and stay on for quite some time. Even if you can coax them to come off on their own there's still a swollen mark. Assuming she wasn't aware of ticks or what the bite looks like, she should have been able to tell she'd been bitten by something. Most insects that bite can carry parasites so it would have been caught eventually if she could have told them that much.
    • mmmcookies, on 07/17/2008, -1/+2If she got bit in her hair she wouldn't notice. A bump on a teen's head will be written off as a zit. If she absent mindedly scratched it, she might have removed the tick's body.

      If she didn't live in an especially tick-ridden area, she might have assumed it was a mosquito bite, and not worried about it.
      • docbob84, on 07/18/2008, -0/+0The rash caused by Lyme Disease would not be written off as a zit. Picture a bullseye ranging in size from a (American) quarter to a baseball. It really does look like a bullseye, with a red dot in the middle, clear skin around that, and a red ring around that. If she was bitten six months before, I doubt the rash would still have been there, but the mother or the girl *should* have noticed it at some point. Maybe not if it was under her hair, though you'd think a very tender spot the size of a baseball wouldn't be THAT easy to miss. If they even mentioned a bullseye rash in passing, any doctor worth his salt would have thought Lyme Disease first thing.
    • slowfly, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1I think the Lyme Disease, from the tick that crawled up your corn-hole, has passed the blood brain barrier if you're going to blame the little girl for this.
      • schmitey, on 07/18/2008, -0/+1Look, any diagnosis whether it be a car problem or whatever depends on certain information being made available. How can you fix a car if the owner just says "fix my problem?" The doctors were taking a complete stab in the dark and obviously ran every test they thought was practical. Lyme disease that is this progressed is very rare, you can't expect the doctors to diagnose without key info. Yes the poor girl got dealt ***** cards, but the doctors didn't know she'd been bitten. Whether she knew she'd been bitten or not by any type of bug...she's the only one who would have known. Doctors are off the hook IMO.
      • elliemcdavies, on 08/19/2008, -0/+0yeah, you shouldnt blame the doctors.
        you know
        dominique doing this
        and danielle agreeing
        they were not meaning for people to slag off doctors.
        they just wanted to raise awareness, to help bada uk.
        because believe it or not before she got ill danielle was actually really happy.
        so i suggest some of the people posting get there story right instead of slagging her off.
        not you above^
        but various others.
        I'm sure danielles mom, friends, and members of the family WOULD love to see some of these horrible coments.


  • WhoDoneIt, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1Maybe it was just ***** luck because I've actually read up on Lyme Disease before, but that was the first thing I thought of when I read her list of mystery symptoms.
  • vyshemirsky, on 07/17/2008, -0/+11My friend is a doctor, a urologist. Every now and then some guy would write to him and ask to make diagnosis by email. My friend always replies "Sounds like you have gangrene in your penis, come and see the doctor while it is still not too late to cut it off". Most of the guys would usually go and see a doctor after such a reply. A real doctor would never ever diagnose a patient without a real examination.
  • crapmatic, on 07/17/2008, -6/+7Why do doctors not do research AFTER my initial consultation with them? It seems like every time I've ever seen a doctor, they come up with a diagnosis and a medication regimen right after the cuff.

    Also in many cases, I've had a better grasp on my symptoms and treatment than the doctor I've seen. Several times I've had to throw away prescriptions given to me because the health risks far outweigh the benefits, and they're clearly medications that a pharma rep has been pushing on my doctor. On the same token, it irks me to have to dig into old prescriptions to treat myself. Don't even get me started on the near-inaccessibility of scheduled pain meds on the occasions every few years when I have a legitimate need for one -- I don't trust the US medical system to treat me for pain should I have a real need.

    The "doctor knows best" meme I think has become FAR too pervasive. There are some good doctors out there but a boatload of ***** ones. I'd like to see more consumer advocacy for those who see physicians with a "resellerratings.com" of doctors, and a US pharmacy system that operates more like they do in Mexico.
    • aamer, on 07/17/2008, -3/+5amen
    • RedViper1999, on 07/18/2008, -2/+2Maybe just maybe because a doctor has to see on average 30-40 patients a day. There are simply not enough doctor's right now and they don't have the time. I don't know if you've ever followed your doctor for an entire day or week but you should because it is insane.
  • Rudegar, on 07/17/2008, -1/+7i googled myself and found i was in perfect health but my 7 other personalities want a 2ed opinion :S
  • poidh, on 07/17/2008, -4/+9There's a common misconception about doctors.
    They are perceived to be "super intelligent". They are, in general, no different from ordinary people.
    To succeed at medicine one needs to be able to apply oneself, to work hard. Nothing more. Same as lawyers, same as engineers, same as most professions I would say.
    • DrDigg, on 07/18/2008, -0/+3Obviously i'm biased but I think it takes a little more than just the ability to apply oneself.

      Also lawyers and engineers are not "ordinary people". They tend to be pretty intelligent, top 10% of the population in my opinion. In my med school class we had about 10 engineers, similar type intelligence is required (problem solving skills and intellectual curiosity).
      • poidh, on 07/18/2008, -1/+1Obviously I'm not comparing doctors to the average dumbass. I'm just saying there's nothing particularly special about them; you don't have to be highly intelligent to be a doctor. As long as you're willing to work hard and are able to memorise what you learn, then you can be a doctor.
    • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -2/+1Most doctors are no smarter than the average Republican. Run, don't walk, away from those ones.
  • ariez84, on 07/17/2008, -9/+9Free Health Care. You get what you paid for.
    • magamiako, on 07/17/2008, -1/+4Just an FYI, my aunt had lyme disease and was not diagnosed until hitting the 3rd doctor with the symptoms.

      From the sounds of the article, it does not sound like ticks are a very common thing there--but they are here in the US. We're generally very cautious about it here in Baltimore.

      Every year the news runs a segment on the ticks and mosquitos and the various diseases you can get from them. I can thoroughly understand if the doctor had never really had to worry about it before that they would misdiagnose it.

      Just read the article:

      "The disease has seen a fivefold increase in Britain in the past decade."

      'It's staggering that this has been caused by one bite. Danielle is literally bed-ridden. She can barely walk because she is so weak and she gets tired really easily."

      It's painfully obvious that they're not used to this sort of thing.

      And even here in Baltimore, where we see news segments every year, it can and often goes misdiagnosed.
    • RedViper1999, on 07/18/2008, -2/+1I was waiting for someone to say that. You said what I was thinking.
  • sguasp, on 07/17/2008, -3/+1Man, where is House when you need him?

    ...Wait, has anyone seen my vicodin?
  • Gee1004, on 07/17/2008, -8/+7Doctors know crap. One minute a person can be fine after a doctors visit and the next day can get a crippling stoke
    • Ymeg, on 07/17/2008, -0/+3hurr hurr, dem dum docters.
    • unpolloloco, on 07/18/2008, -0/+4ummmmm.....next time I see a doctor, I know I'm going to ask them to perform brain surgery on me so that they can measure the wall thickness of all the blood vessels in my brain so that they'll be better able to predict when I'll get a stroke.....
    • RedViper1999, on 07/18/2008, -0/+2Yep because the human body is 100% understood. We know every gene and what each one does. We know all the interactions of every substance we come across with all the different variations in antibody resistances and predispositions to every disease. I don't know about you but Medicine is a science and in science nothing is absolute so what you're saying makes no sense.
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