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476 Comments
- davidjunit, on 06/23/2008, -14/+215What's wrong with telling people they're wrong when you know very well that they are? Not being open is what's wrong with people; political correctness and over-politeness doesn't accomplish anything except for allowing you to get walked all over. Maybe the people that don't speak up have the real disorder.
- m0tbaillie, on 06/23/2008, -19/+165I can't believe this was front-paged. I'm sorry guys, but there is no way you can just slap and arbitrary disease onto a group of people who happen to be technically-inclined and very good at what they do, as opposed to labeling them as they are: socially inept. It's the same thing with saying all children in the US are suffering from ADD. No, there are just far more distractions for children these days and it's harder to focus on "boring" things like school or reading when they have Internets and Call of Duty.
My cousin *actually* has Asperger's but the cracks in his skull are larger than normal and his mom was coked-out when he was born. He can't tie his shoes or balance a checkbook but ask him anything about WW2 and I guarantee he'd give your local WW2 history PhD a run for his money with ease.
However, attributing Asperger's to every Tom, Dick, and Harry Engineer who lacks social skills is a ***** disserve to the people who really *DO* suffer from this disease and it makes me sick. Go outside and see the ***** sun, go to the bar and have a beer. Meet people. Don't write off your own personality quirks and ineptitudes as the fault of a disease. It's your own damned fault if you're socially awkward. I know *plenty* of brilliant mathematicians, engineers, chemists, *astrophysics* majors, and molecular biologists that are all cool as ***** and have no problem *gasp* going out and getting laid. ***** and buried. - alecks, on 06/23/2008, -18/+162Plus, what the ***** is wrong with telling someone they're idea is bad? This is one thing I don't like about America, everything is so ***** sugarcoated from the day you start Kindergarden. Kids are never told they did something bad or they're work is simply below par... and this apparently grows right up into the workplace.
If you come up with an idea that sucks, I will just tell you that it's bad and won't work. I don't have time to sugarcoat what I say to manage your feelings. If you feel insulted or whatever from what I say about your idea, then YOU are the one with problems, IMO. - GrantTheGr8, on 06/23/2008, -7/+124There = location
Their = possessive
They're = contraction of "they are"
Normally I wouldn't bother correcting you because you'd probably just get offended and tell me to piss off, but since your comment is denouncing said behavior, what the hell. - scsp85, on 06/23/2008, -21/+137This article introduces the same old: "I'm different, treat me different" and "Where is a special program to help me?" I'm am all for people overcoming their handicaps, and even using them to their advantage but don't expect me to dole out special treatment to those who are struggling at a position that doesn't fit them. Go ahead, bury me, I'm sure all you diggers are self diagnosed anyway.
- inactive, on 06/23/2008, -3/+87http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_ ...
"t's a familiar joke in the industry that many of the hardcore programmers in IT strongholds like Intel, Adobe, and Silicon Graphics - coming to work early, leaving late, sucking down Big Gulps in their cubicles while they code for hours - are residing somewhere in Asperger's domain. Kathryn Stewart, director of the Orion Academy, a high school for high-functioning kids in Moraga, California, calls Asperger's syndrome "the engineers' disorder." Bill Gates is regularly diagnosed in the press: His single-minded focus on technical minutiae, rocking motions, and flat tone of voice are all suggestive of an adult with some trace of the disorder. Dov's father told me that his friends in the Valley say many of their coworkers "could be diagnosed with ODD - they're odd." In Microserfs, novelist Douglas Coupland observes, "I think all tech people are slightly autistic."
Though no one has tried to convince the Valley's best and brightest to sign up for batteries of tests, the culture of the area has subtly evolved to meet the social needs of adults in high-functioning regions of the spectrum. In the geek warrens of engineering and R&D, social graces are beside the point. You can be as off-the-wall as you want to be, but if your code is bulletproof, no one's going to point out that you've been wearing the same shirt for two weeks. Autistic people have a hard time multitasking - particularly when one of the channels is face-to-face communication. Replacing the hubbub of the traditional office with a screen and an email address inserts a controllable interface between a programmer and the chaos of everyday life. Flattened workplace hierarchies are more comfortable for those who find it hard to read social cues. A WYSIWYG world, where respect and rewards are based strictly on merit, is an Asperger's dream." - charlesray, on 06/23/2008, -36/+111Asperger's is in the same league as ADD in that it MIGHT be a real condition, but 95% of the people "diagnosed" with it are completely normal. Quit using illnesses as an excuse for your own inability to function in society, and quit "diagnosing" famous people (e.g. Bill Gates) to try to make yourself feel better.
- inactive, on 06/23/2008, -9/+73Typical selection process doesn't pick out those who are socially integrated and can understand social intricacies; they are looking for a genius automaton that can optimize a system in under 72 hours. Bill Gates is an example of an Asperger's sufferer. To think that the Richest man in the world is autistic, who would have thought it.
- sparsely, on 06/23/2008, -2/+60Telling someone they're wrong isn't an insult to their intelligence. It's correction.
- MrSketch, on 06/23/2008, -6/+58The site was loading really slow for me, so in case it's down by now:
"Ryno" is a 50-something ex-sysadmin, by his own account "burned out and living on disability" in rural Australia.
He loved the tech parts of being a system administrator, and he was good at them. But the interpersonal interactions that went along with the position — the hearty backslaps from random users, the impromptu meetings — were literally unbearable for Ryno.
"I can make your systems efficient and lower your downtime," he says. "I cannot make your users happy."
Bob, a database applications programmer who's been working in high tech for 26 years, has an aptitude for math and logic. And he has what he calls his "strange memory". If he can't recall the answer to a question, he can recall exactly, as if in a digital image, where he first saw the answer, down to the page and paragraph and sentence.
Bob has some behaviour quirks as well: He can become nonverbal when he's frustrated, and he interprets things literally — he doesn't read between the lines. "I am sure [my boss] finds it frustrating when I misinterpret his irony," he says, "but at least he knows it is not willful."
"Jeremy" excels at being able to see an engineering problem from the inside out, internalising it almost from the point of view of the code itself. He's great at hammering out details one on one with other intensely focused people, often the CEOs of the companies he contracts for. To protect his anonymity, he doesn't want to mention his programming subspecialty, but suffice it to say he's a very well-known go-to guy in his industry.
What Jeremy is not good at is suffering fools in the workplace or dealing with the endless bureaucracy of the modern corporation. If someone is wrong — if their idea just plain won't work — he says so, simply states the fact. That frankness causes all manner of upset in the office, he's discovered.
These IT professionals are all autistic. Bob and Ryno have Asperger's Syndrome (AS); Jeremy has high-functioning autism (HFA).
Though the terms are debated and sometimes disputed in the medical community, both refer in a general way to people who display some characteristics of autism — including unusual responses to the environment and deficits in social interaction — but not the cognitive and communicative development impairments or language delays of classic autism.
People with Asperger's, widely known as "Aspies," aren't good at reading nonverbal cues, according to the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. They can have difficulty forming friendships with peers, they form a strict adherence to routines and rituals, and they may exhibit repetitive and stereotyped motor movements like hand or finger flapping.
Dr Tony Attwood, a world-renowned Asperger's clinician and author in Brisbane, Australia, defines Asperger's in a more human context: "The [Asperger's] person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities. ... The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others."
Problems over people? Hmm, sounds like a techie.
A paper on Asperger's from Yale University's Developmental Disabilities Clinic continues down the same path: "Idiosyncratic interests are common and may take the form of an unusual and/or highly circumscribed interest (such as in train schedules, snakes, the weather, deep-fry cookers or telegraph pole insulators)."
Or technology. When Ryno spoke with a receptionist to make an initial appointment for an evaluation with Attwood, she asked him, what is your "Big Interest?"
"She inadvertently gave me a diagnostic question I have found invaluable," he recalls. "The Big Interest is a great start to Aspie-spotting."
Ryno's Big Interest is computers and communications. He's not the only one, not by a long shot.
The Asperger's-IT connection
Autism, though first identified and labeled in 1943, is still a poorly understood neurodevelopment disorder, and nearly every aspect of its causes, manifestations, research and cure is mired in controversy. Asperger's and HFA, being hard-to-define, often undiagnosed or underdiagnosed variants on the high end of the autism spectrum, are even less quantified or understood.
Diagnoses of autism, including Asperger's, have skyrocketed in the US in recent years — the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention now estimates that one in 150 8-year-old children has some form of autism.
It's not clear if the increase is because of better detection, a change in the diagnosis to include a wider range of behaviours, a true increase in case numbers, or some combination of those or other factors.
It's even less clear how many adults have Asperger's. Because Aspies are usually of average or above-average intelligence, they're often able to mask or accommodate their differences socially and in the workplace, meaning many of them make it well into middle age, or live their whole lives, without being formally diagnosed.
A spokesman for the National Institute of Mental Health says the agency is not aware of any government organisation or academic research that tracks the incidence of AS in adults.
Where statistics come up short, anecdote is happy to take up the slack. Ask an Asperger's-aware techie if there is indeed a connection between AS and IT, and you're likely to get "affirmative, Captain".
When the question is put to Ryno, he emails back a visual: "Aspies--> tech--> as fish--> water."
And Bob, the database applications programmer, says, "Yes, it is a stereotype, and yes, there are a higher than average number of Aspies in high tech."
Nobody, it seems, has more to say on the subject than Temple Grandin, a fast-talking PhD Aspie professor who's the closest thing Asperger's has to an elder stateswoman.
Grandin made her mark designing livestock-handling facilities from the point of view of the animal; she now has a thriving second career as an Asperger's author (Thinking in Pictures, Unwritten Rules of Social Relationships) and speaker.
"Is there a connection between Asperger's and IT? We wouldn't even have any computers if we didn't have Asperger's," she declares. "All these labels — 'geek' and 'nerd' and 'mild Asperger's' — are all getting at the same thing. ... The Asperger's brain is interested in things rather than people, and people who are interested in things have given us the computer you're working on right now."
Career opportunities, career limitations
Grandin has compiled a list of jobs and their suitability to Aspies and autistics according to their skills. No surprise, tech jobs are cited early and often. Her list of "good jobs for visual thinkers", for example, includes computer programming, drafting (including computer-aided drafting), computer troubleshooting and repair, web page design, video game design and computer animation.
Grandin's "good jobs for nonvisual thinkers", which she further defines as "those who are good at math, music or facts," includes computer programming, engineering, inventory control and physics.
Why do Asperger's individuals gravitate to technology?
"Adults with Asperger's have a social naivety that prevents them from understanding how people relate. What draws them in is not parties and social interaction, but work that allows them to feel safe, to feel in control," explains Steve Becker, a developmental disabilities therapist at Becker & Associates, a private practice in the Seattle suburb of Des Moines, Washington, that conducts ongoing small group sessions for adults with AS, among other services.
"What's better for that than a video game or a software program?" Becker asks. "When you're designing a software program, there are rules and protocols to be followed. In life, there is no manual."
While careful to protect his clients' confidentiality, Becker confirms that he sees many adults and children of adults who work for the region's tech powerhouses — Microsoft and Boeing — and the hundreds of smaller companies that orbit around them.
Some of the Aspies he counsels are at the very top of their tech game: software and aerospace engineers, computer scientists, PhDs. But for every research fellow with Asperger's, he says, there are a legion of fellow Aspies having a much tougher time in the middle or lower ranks of the industry.
"The spectrum of success is much broader than one would expect," agrees Roger Meyer, the Oregon-based author of The Asperger Syndrome Employment Workbook who runs one of the oldest peer-led adult Asperger's groups in the country. "Adults who have grown sophisticated at masking and adaptive behaviours can either bubble along at the bottom of the market or do very well at the top."
It's that "bubbling along at the bottom" that has Becker, Meyer and other Aspie specialists concerned. Employees with Asperger's might do well for years in data entry or working in a job like insurance claims, where knowledge of ephemera is a prized work skill, only to flounder when they're promoted to a position that requires a higher degree of social interaction.
"The more technical the job, the better they do. But for some, managing people in a supervisory capacity can be a problem," Becker says.
That can leave Asperger's employees stuck on the lower and less remunerative ranks of IT, sometimes in jobs that are vulnerable to outsourcing, says Meyer. For example, certain tech support situations, where sensory distractions are minimal and human interactions are reduced to a screen or a voice on the phone, are a natural fit for some Aspies.
"They're good at diagnostic work. They can get in and slosh around in the computer, use their encyclopedic knowledge of applications and work-arounds, and arrive at a solution that may be unorthodox but effective," says Meyer. As those jobs increasingly become automated and/or outsourced, Aspies' chances for employment are diminished as well.
IT's dark little secret
Becker and Meyer say they have yet to hear of a single corporation that has any kind of formal programme in place to nurture and support employees with Asperger's and HFA, aside from covering the costs of therapy through standard health care plans.
Which begs the question: If Aspies are everywhere among us, why isn't the IT industry doing more to support them or even to simply acknowledge their existence?
High-tech companies, after all, have been at the forefront of supporting workers with nearly every type of social, ethnic, physical or developmental identification. Microsoft, to take just one example, sponsors at least 20 affinity groups — for African Americans, dads, deaf and hard of hearing, visually impaired, Singaporeans, single parents, and gay/lesbian/bisexual and transgendered employees, to name a few. Just nothing for autistics.
A Microsoft spokeswoman confirmed that the company has no group or formal, separate support for Asperger's. On rare occasions, an employee with AS has requested accommodation, she says. When that happens, the employee is paired with a disability case manager to determine "reasonable accommodation" on a case-by-case basis.
Intel and Yahoo didn't respond to requests to discuss their policy toward Asperger's employees, and a Google spokesman says the company was "unable to accommodate the inquiry".
To be fair, the question of whether and how corporations should support Aspies is a thorny one to untangle.
For one thing, unlike a disability that confines an employee to a wheelchair or the language barrier that a foreigner faces, autism is something others can't see or easily understand.
"A readily visible disability is easier [for co-workers] to cognitively take on board, it seems," Ryno laments. "Ah, if only Asperger's made one turn green!"
"If you meet someone from another country," Jeremy elaborates, "people know they're from a different country and they cut them some slack."
And by their very nature, Aspies are not uniters. Microsoft's clubs and support groups are all initiated and chartered by employees. That leaves Aspies out by default: It would be highly unusual for an employee with Asperger's to voluntarily organise any type of social group, with or without other autistics.
Finally, many Aspies aren't "out" in the workplace; they haven't acknowledged their condition publicly or to more than one or two individuals.
Whether they should is a matter of contention. Ryno revealed his Asperger's at only one job (his last) and lived to regret it, even though his boss happened to be a young Aspie as well.
"It's the first time I've had an AS person as a superior," he says. "It was definitely a refreshing change not to have to explain why I didn't do eye contact, hated meetings and could not suffer fools, let alone feign gladness."
In retrospect, however, Ryno regrets having told anyone he has AS. "I'd say there were many disadvantages and few gains. The gains were short-lived, too." Specifically, systems that Ryno and his boss had designed both to help users and to minimise interruptions to their own workdays were resented and little used.
Now that Ryno is gone — he quit after being ordered by an executive to restore internet access for an employee caught downloading pornography against company policy — "the other AS employee is being forced into meetings, crowded social gatherings and many of the situations we had previously been allowed to keep to a minimum - trenchcoat, on 06/23/2008, -7/+56Amen brother. I have nothing against Asperger's patients but the self-diagnosed ones are just socially inept looking for something to blame it on but themselves.
- katiekatekate, on 06/23/2008, -3/+45There is a difference between sugarcoating and diplomacy, though. While it's not necessary to pat people on the head and constantly reassure them, it IS possible to tell the truth without being rude. Telling someone their idea won't work is fine. Telling someone that they or their idea sucks is just unnecessarily aggressive.
- ligyron, on 06/23/2008, -8/+44Bill Gates has Aspergers disorder? Was there a confirmed diagnosis of this because I've never heard of it. Most people that really have Aspergers can hardly take care of themselves, let alone start a business and marry...
There's a lot of misconceptions about Aspergers. A lot of people diagnosed themselves and seem to think that because they spent most of their childhood on the computer rather than socializing, they have a disorder.
I don't remember where I read it, but I found it funny and true for a lot of people, "Aspergers is a disorder that is contracted after reading the Wikipedia article about it." - cfuse, on 06/23/2008, -11/+45Bill Gates is a person with Asperger's. An Asperger's sufferer is anyone who is around Bill Gates.
- GorfTron, on 06/23/2008, -4/+33The gimpy high school nerd who had his head flushed in the toilet can be a TERROR to work with later in life. He now makes 100k and has an axe to grind and a lot to prove.
- pAq6Swad, on 09/16/2008, -3/+32It's popular to view Asperger's as a sort of latent illness that some people have but aren't diagnosed with, and is only evident in asocial behavior. The truth is, they're actually quite a bit more eccentric than your average asocial person. . .I was also one of the myriad of self-diagnosed Aspies until I read a lot of material about them and discussed it with a professional. Do you have any habits that you hide, such as collecting years of fingernails or habits that many call superstitious but you think are well-founded? Some such eccentricity is extremely common in Aspies. The point is, if you don't have it, you should be very happy--the idea that aspies are highly intelligent asocial people is a gross simplification of disorder that is still very vague.
- katiekatekate, on 06/23/2008, -1/+29That's true, and that's why you have to leave the people out of it as much as possible. Instead of saying "Your idea, x, is flawed because of situation y." you could say "Situation y makes plan x impossible." That way it's phrased just as plain facts and there are no people or ideas involved.
I still maintain that this is not sugarcoating, it's just tact. The second sentence doesn't take any longer to say, so I never really understood the argument of "I don't have time to coddle you." Not being a jackass isn't the same thing as coddling. - thebza451, on 06/23/2008, -22/+49your comment is bad.
- guntario, on 06/23/2008, -5/+31Actually, it's almost impossible to tell someone the truth without them thinking you're being rude. Most people are instantly offended. It's either they'll think you're rude, or self righteous and break out with the "Don't judge me!" defense.
- Otto, on 06/23/2008, -0/+26Exactly. Everybody is wrong at some point.
- KaivenTor, on 06/23/2008, -0/+25Huh. And here I was thinking that most engineers just cared about solving a problem in an efficient but effective manner.
- richardtallent, on 06/23/2008, -1/+25Uhm, it's called a "spectrum disorder" for a reason. It does not present to the same degree in all people.
No one said that all "brilliant" or technical people have AS, or that AS is the explanation for all general ***** among IT types.
Also, many people with it (myself included) are able to work around it most of the time by conscious effort. I'm happily married (to a non-geek), have non-geek friends, and even have a people-oriented hobby (photography), but it is still a struggle.
Would you write off someone who is bisexual as simply confused or faking it? What about a transsexual?
Don't write off other people's experience as simple character flaws.
And it's not the "same thing" as ADD. ADD is a behavioral disorder that *can* be caused or made worse by bad parenting (allowing constant over-stimulation, not disciplining, etc.). AS parents, like all parents with autistic children, are helpless, and just whooping their behinds or sending them outside to play doesn't make it all better. - betasp, on 06/23/2008, -2/+26I have been fighting labels such as ADD, ADHD, and Aspergers (I used call it ass-burgers to my parents) since the age of 10. Today, I am 32, Married with kids and working as an IT Manager that is known for his people skills and his ability to communicate with non-technical people. I have never taken any medication. My parents insisted I learn to cope... and I am glad they did.
- MikeSD34, on 06/23/2008, -0/+22It should also be mentioned that if you want them to learn you should tell them why their idea doesn't work rather than just saying that it doesn't work. They're less likely to be upset and if you've done you're job, they now agree with you.
Just saying "Your idea sucks" is argumentative and non-productive. - kingmanic, on 06/23/2008, -4/+26No so much liberals as just retards. No child left behind is a 'conservative' initiative that strives to ensure the stupid don't feel their stupid.
- bombula, on 06/23/2008, -7/+29You're a ***** talking out of your ass. Aspergers and other forms of autism have measurable differences in their neuronal structures, particularly in their mirror neurons. The clinical expressions of this illness stand out like a sore thumb to anyone with an ounce of training.
Tom Cruise called - he wants his ignorant rant against the science of psychiatry back. - Otto, on 06/23/2008, -0/+20Only if those things were actually true.
- Pake, on 06/23/2008, -3/+21Because half the time, they'll feel you're insulting their intelligence just by making suggestions in the first place.
- Ljay90, on 06/23/2008, -7/+25I didn't realize being anti-social and socially awkward constituted a mental disorder...
- ohhoe, on 06/23/2008, -4/+22The only guy I've ever met with aspergers said the most hurtful and mean things imaginable to everyone.
Is this a part of the disorder? - AnarkeIncarnate, on 06/23/2008, -0/+18Aspies are not asocial nor anti-social. They are socially stunted in ways that make then naive about their surroundings in regards to how communication is projected and received.
- edd17, on 06/23/2008, -1/+19I'll have you know i took an internet quiz for my diagnosis.
- AnarkeIncarnate, on 06/23/2008, -0/+17Katie,
The problem with your idea is that people with Asperger's don't even think like that at all. It would almost never occur to them to think that way. It is a foreign concept to think of things as people issues when they are simply factual/rational issues. I know this from experience. - scsp85, on 06/23/2008, -10/+26"What's wrong with telling people they're wrong when you know very well that they are?"
When telling someone they are wrong will cause more harm than help. Why not suggest a better (correct > incorrect) method of solving a problem without insulting someone's intelligence. - inactive, on 06/23/2008, -10/+26sounds like you have the assburgers
- Pittance, on 06/23/2008, -8/+24*****. Every nerd who has trouble socially says they have Aspergers. Most of these people are just socially inept. I tell people in my office when buerocratic decisions are stupid and will not work. The difference is that real engineers and people who want the company to work will listen. Only fools who want to maintain the status quo will be angry.
- slvrbullet87, on 06/23/2008, -1/+17The only condition Bill Gates has is brilliant businessman syndrome
- trenchcoat, on 06/23/2008, -4/+19But like ADD it's been completely overdiagnosed. I would say less than half of the people walking around that claim to have it actually don't.
- Ikulus, on 06/23/2008, -0/+15It's a dream only to people with merit.
- bombula, on 06/23/2008, -10/+24Lots of computer programmers - a group of people notorious for good rote analytical and quantitative skills but no social skills or common sense - have Aspergers.
In other news, scientists discover the sun is yellow, the sky is blue and water is wet. News at 11. - cfuse, on 06/23/2008, -0/+14Sure, answer honestly when she asks: Do I look fat?
The issue is that social behaviour is just another rule-set (or system). However, as it can literally make or break your career, social status, or any other area where people's favour is required, I would think that it would be important to learn. I certainly thought so, and I've researched and tested for many countless hours (feeding people unexpected or incorrectly formatted data is also very enlightening - most people are totally on autopilot and don't even notice when you say something totally outlandish).
Human beings are the most expensive (based on wage) and buggy pieces of IT equipment that you can use - it pays to know how to operate and conduct maintenance on them (and, when necessary, EOL them). You can't expect a system to work well if you totally ignore a huge chunk of it. - celotil, on 06/23/2008, -0/+13You've missed the point. The article wasn't saying that everyone in IT, nor the majority of people in IT, have Aspergers or Autism. It was saying that the IT field provides a place for the majority of mild Aspergers and Autism sufferers to work without being diagnosed, due to ITs technical nature and the stereotype of the socially inept, perpetually virginal geek.
True, the majority of people working in IT probably don't have Aspergers, Autism, or any other mental diseases other than a simple lack of social graces, but how are people to know if all they see when they look at a Geek is the stereotype? How is the Aspergers or Autism sufferer to know that they're any different from their peers, who don't have either but share common behaviours? - zadadka, on 06/23/2008, -0/+12I know where you are coming from, but to offset that, like me, you too are probably surrounded by incompetents who think they deserve more than they get, when we know they mostly deserve being fired.......somewhere along the way, it balances out....
- Otto, on 06/23/2008, -13/+25I agree that ADD is *****, but Asperger's is indeed a real condition, closely related to autism.
- robweber, on 06/23/2008, -0/+12I think a world where respect and rewards are based strictly on merit would be damn near anyone's dream.
- Narcism, on 06/23/2008, -0/+12dugg because this link is better then a mirror.
- auto98, on 06/23/2008, -0/+12"what you see is what you get" is about as far as it is possible to get from religion - since religion is based on "what you DONT see is what you get"
- agentkimchee, on 06/23/2008, -3/+15Just because 95% of cases are misdiagnosed doesn't mean that the disorders aren't very real for the remaining 5% who really have them. I know people with severe, real ADD, and severe, real Asperger's, and the diagnoses helps the people around them understand that they are dealing with more severe mental challenges than the average person.
- inactive, on 06/23/2008, -3/+14You're 'Spergin there buddy
- Tyrghast, on 06/23/2008, -2/+12To be honest, I was positive this 'dark secret' was 'some IT people prefer Star Wars to Star Trek'.
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