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Antidepressants to get new suicide warnings
startribune.com — Antidepressants can increase the risk of suicidal behaviors in people up to age 24, federal public health officials warned Wednesday as they decided to expand a drug warning label that now applies only to children and adolescents.
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- sleze, on 10/12/2007, -8/+6It sure doesn't sound like we are using very reliable anti-depressants. I never got a debilitating migraine by taking an aspirin to cure a head ache...
FDA Warning: This product, instead of curing your depression, may cause you to become REALLY depressed and make you want to kill yourself.- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22That's not how it works. It works like this:
Antidepressants are given to a kid who's so depressed that he's effectively paralyzed, incapable of taking care of himself, often just lying in bed staring at the ceiling. The antidepressants kick in, and the first thing which happens is that the paralyzing feeling of utter hopelessness disappears - but the kid is still as depressed.
Meaning he's now got sufficient energy to kill himself, which he didn't without the antidepressants. If he'd waited a couple of weeks he'd no longer have wanted to kill himself, but no-one who's suicidally depressed believes that. - vault, on 10/12/2007, -6/+8>>If he'd waited a couple of weeks he'd no longer have wanted to kill himself, but >>no-one who's suicidally depressed believes that.
Right, because *genuine* suicidal depression really wears off in a couple of weeks by itself. - HullCrushDepth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6He never said it would go away by itself, anti-depressant medication takes 6-8 weeks to take full effect. In the time before that a patients energy levels will begin to increase allowing them to carry out their suicidal ambitions. The medication itself does not make people suicidal.
- voidptr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@vault
No, it wouldn't go away on it's own. The meds would have two more weeks to take effect. Junkyarddawg's description is a pretty accurate description of what I experienced on several of them years ago. The same thing happens when you start getting it out of your system, which is why you're not supposed to quit them cold turkey.
There appears to be very little accepted practice when treating a patient using SSRIs. The first month on a new one (or cocktail of them usually) requires very close supervision by somebody who's at least partially attentive and an *immediate* trip back to the doc to get re-evaluated if the patient starts having negative reactions.
These things literally f*ck with the way your brain works and how you see the world. The potential side effects of them are enormous, and the slight variations among the different ones on the market today produce an incredible array of very personalized reactions to them. Nightmares, insomnia, debilitating fatigue (not helped by the nightmares and insomnia no doubt..) as well as the effects described above are a couple I experienced personally last time I let a doctor talk me into trying them.
I'm not saying they're bad. I know people who lead functional lives they might otherwise not on these things. But I also know they work on an extremely personal level manipulating reality around you, and I don't think most doctors prescribing them today are truly aware of their effects and how much you need to really ensure someone is adjusted to them and comfortable before relaxing supervision.
Every doctor knows aspirin and codeine kill pain, because they've probably personally experienced it at some point in their lives, and the effects are relatively stable across patients. Most doctors probably haven't been on Prozac or effexor in their lifetime, and have no first-hand knowledge of what a patient on it may be going through. - vault, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@hull
Um yes he did...see quote.
I'm just tired of these armchair doctors on Digg, I guess.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22That's not how it works. It works like this:
- easyone, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16Absolutely ridiculous. If a person is depressed they are already showing suicidal behavior. The anti-depressant simply fails to steer them clear of suicide, it doesn't guide them towards it.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Only a very small minority of people who are depressed are suicidal. Of those who are suicidally depressed, antidepressants can, in the beginning of the treatment, give them sufficient energy to kill themselves, which they'd otherwise not have managed to motivate themselves into doing.
- slartibartphast, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3You are right, junkyard is talking out of somewhere. They don't work in any way junkyard has been saying, they take at least 6 weeks and there is no instant effect. And they don't "motivate" themselves into suicide, wow that's a good one!
At least it's only a warning and won't take them off the market. Hopefully someday medical science will be able to routinely test for imbalances and avoid misdiagnosis. - Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@slartibartfast: WTF are you talking about? I haven't said there's immediate effect, or that they motivate anyone to commit suicide. I said that they restore energy before they remove the depression, and they do.
- chaosium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1hstrijew is a Scientologist, so you can take his opinions on antidepressants with an ocean's worth of sale.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -8/+5Only a very small minority of people who are depressed are suicidal. Of those who are suicidally depressed, antidepressants can, in the beginning of the treatment, give them sufficient energy to kill themselves, which they'd otherwise not have managed to motivate themselves into doing.
- consultU, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5It's amazing that it took the FDA so long to come out with this ruling, after all the hundreds of suicides and murders which have occurred! At this rate we will find out in another 10 years that nobody should have been put on these at all!
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Depressed people don't murder, they huddle up in a corner and spend their day hating themselves. You're probably thinking of schzophrenics.
- sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Or like me they spend their day on Digg!
- vault, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6>>Depressed people don't murder, they huddle up in a corner and spend their day hating themselves.
Right, most murderers are incredibly happy.
>>You're probably thinking of schzophrenics.
That is one of the most common misconceptions about schizophrenia. The vast majority are *NOT* violent, it's just that the media depicts the most violent, most mentally ill schizophrenics to depict in movies, tv, etc. How interesting would a productive member of society who takes medicine and sees a psychiatrist regularly be to the general public? - Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@vault: Being unhappy isn't depression.
Depression is a paralyzing feeling of grief and self loathing. The person who's depressed isn't delusional, and is completely aware that he's depressed. If you've never been depressed, then you can get a feel for what it's like if you've ever lost a loved one, the feeling is similar. That depressed people are aware that they're depressed, that they're not delusional, that they're basically just feeling very sad, and that the disease zaps their strenght and motivation are all factors which mean that depressives are NOT dangerous. Except, sometimes, to themselves.
As for schizophrenics, I've seen enough of them to say that while not all are violent, a quite a few of them are. Schizophrenics also are delusional (e.g. hear voices, or have hallucinations), and they're not aware of their own sickness.
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Depressed people don't murder, they huddle up in a corner and spend their day hating themselves. You're probably thinking of schzophrenics.
- shadus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15In most cases anti-depressants are a benefit, although the wrong drugs given to people suffering from bipolar disorder can sometimes cause a switch between the hyper state to the depressed state which can increase suicidal tenancies too.
- phrstbrn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Bingo. Giving anti-depressants to patients with manic-depression (called bipolar disorder by some) can make their condition worse.
Mod parent up.
- phrstbrn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Bingo. Giving anti-depressants to patients with manic-depression (called bipolar disorder by some) can make their condition worse.
- Sakumi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1Emo Labels !
- countmandible, on 11/15/2007, -6/+3It's about time, large Pharma like Eli Lilly have known about this for years.
- kylehanks, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2How ironic
- MrDiggle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1This makes me depressed.
- Phr00t, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5I take 5mg Lexapro daily, and this stuff really helps most people, including myself (sometimes getting on and off the meds can be tricky for some people). I believe all this "suicide" junk is all about greedy lawsuits. Do a search for "lexapro suicide" on google, and look what comes up (just on the first page!):
www.yourlawyer.com
justiceseekers.com
www.lawyersandsettlements.com
www.lawcash.com - jamessavik, on 10/12/2007, -8/+4Anti-depressants are the modern equal of witchcraft or alchemy. They seek to balance levels of neural chemicals in the brain and we simply don't know enough to do this with certainty. That's why when a shrink "try" you out on an anti-depressant, that is exactly what they are doing. Picking the right one is a matter of trial and error.
- firemillen2, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4thanks for your opinion, Mr. Cruise.
- mr1337, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Anti-depressant medication
Side effects: Severe depression & suicide - Jugalator, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Huh? What happens when you become 24 years old?
Strange science if it can only increase the risk up to that age. - dhbanes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2The problem is not with anti-depressants being given to UNIPOLAR depressed people. It's that a lot of incompetent psychiatrists or (even worse) doctors of unrelated specialties (a primary care physician who doesn't want to send their patient to a psychiatrist, for example) not being able to tell the difference between BPD (bipolar disorder) and unipolar depression. If you give SSRIs to a bipolar person, it will make them feel better when they are in a depressed state, then it will make them SUPER manic when they are in a manic state, which will make them even worse off when they go back to a depressed state.
It's obvious that people with BPD, for the most part, need mood stabilizers and possibly atypical anti-psychotics, NOT SSRIs alone (if at all). Doctors are often too lazy or too incompetent to recognize this. Sometimes their patients die. These warning labels will do nothing but make uneducated parents afraid to give their depressed children anti-depressants that could help them tremendously.- hesitaliandad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Thank god someone with some sense. well said.
- iancgi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6I haven't taken a prescription drug for 5 years an im more healthy than I have ever been in my life. The FDA is not out to help you the FDA has been bought out by multi-billion dollar global corporations like every other federal agency in the US. People need to open their eyes and see who really runs this country.
Why are we told our medicine and drugs are so advanced yet there are more sick people and diseases in the world than ever before? Its because you don't make money by curing people.- ztbq48, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@iancgi
will you be using your positive mental attitude approach if/when a day comes when you develop a bacterial pneumonia and require antibiotics that were created and distributed by the "evil" pharmaceutical companies?
- ztbq48, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2@iancgi
- egorgry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I feel somewhat obligated to comment. I've been suffering with severe depression, anxiety and cutting/self mutilation for the past 19 years. I'm 32 now and the meds only help to a degree and like phroot said it's all about finding the mix that works for the individual. I've been on zoloft, risperdol, ativan, xanax, all different doses. They take forever to start working and then when you find out they aren't doing the job they switch you and the process starts all over again. It's frustrating and make you feel hopeless. imo this helps to encourage the suicidal thoughts more then the meds themselves.
Reading some of these comments makes me somewhat happy. There is so much more understanding now then ever before. A few members make some very good points. Achalemoipas makes a great point too and in fact my shrink recommends diet, exercise and omega-3, B-12, as well as folic acid along side of the meds.
I'm on 20mg of lexapro now and I'm somewhat level. I still have suicidal thoughts but I think that I always will. It a very dark and lonely place but oddly comfortable because it's all I know.- tehpoutine, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0sounds like borderline personality disorder. The self mutilation is attention whoring, nothing more. Get over yourself.
- newengland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Find a good doctor to help you get healthy and slowly off the meds if possible. Please take care and get good help life can be good and you are needed.
- techaholic, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1This is what happens when drug companies spend butt loads of money on advertising and sending rep's to sell doctors on a new product..time goes buy and the truth comes out...most likely they are SSRI type drugs SELECTIVE SERITONIN REUPTAKE INHIBITORS..and they can cause alot more problems than that like ereversable damage to normal braon function and serious dependancy issues..not like a heroin addict more like a insulin user depends on insulin...there are better ,safer old drugs .that believe it or not actually seem to have higher sucess rates..
- hesitaliandad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0this is a knee jerk reaction by the FDA. the problem is primary care physicians prescribing the majority of psychotropic medications. the medical community needs to step up and do something. only specialists should be allowed to prescribe these drugs. i'm sure as hell not going to my primary care physician for open heart surgery, same goes for psych drugs.
- matts0344, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4My neighbor hanged herself in her garage a couple years ago, she was on anti-depressants. So in one way, I do believe they should have these warnings.
But it makes you wonder, maybe its because this stuff doesn't work and the people are depressed and then just kill themselves? - charlies3rdeye, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1anyone willing to take medication for their depression is trying to fill an empty spot with something else that is also empty. in this case some pills. this kind of behavior can be disastrous and it only makes me wonder. how weak is someone who gives up all hope, Denys that there is anything left in this world for them, and then takes there own life.
is it really the pills fault? because THEY are the ones that failed.- Astaro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is why no sane doctor will prescribe the drugs on their own.
They will always recommend counseling as well.
Obviously if you are depressed then life changes need to be made.
what the drugs are supposed to provide is the ability to think rationally about why you are depressed, and how to fix it.
And the energy to move ahead.
- Astaro, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This is why no sane doctor will prescribe the drugs on their own.
- manova, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0There are so many misconceptions in these posts I don't even know where to begin. Schizophrenia does not make you violent. It is called bipolar depression, not just by some people. SSRI's have bad side effects because serotonin (5-HT) does more than just play a role in depression, therefore if you give a 5-HT agonists, you will have multiple effects, especially GI problems. It takes awhile for the therapeutic effect to kick in because you are waiting for protein regulation to take place while your body adjusts to new amounts of 5-HT.
Exercise (and to some extent nutrition) can play an important role in the treatment of depression, but you have to remember that not everyone responds the same way to all treatments. That is why there are many different drugs on the market. They all work just a little different and they all help different people. The same is true for alternative approaches. Research studies have shown that talk therapy are as effect as drugs in the treatment of depression. Also, sometimes placebos are effective treatments (this becomes a long discussion about regression to the mean, but basically, depression can be cyclical, so you can have highs and lows with or without treatment).
Finally, what many people have said correctly, antidepressants do not cause a non-suicidal person to suddenly want to commit suicide. As the therapeutic effects begins to work and the person starts to gain more energy, they begin to make goal directed behaviors which can include killing themselves. The deaths that occur are due to improper supervision by doctors, not the drug itself. - billlyboobs34, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3My experience being suicidal on antidepressents goes like this...
I was suicidal, went on antidepressants, they kicked in about 3.5 weeks later and I felt like a million bucks. It was the greatest feeling on earth. BUT at random times my thoughts became more violent then they ever were without them. A few weeks later I checked myself into inpatient care where they lock you on a hospital floor with no sharp objects...
I stayed for about a week, but it seemed like a year. The only condition was group therapy for a few weeks. A few months after I was released I stopped taking the meds on my own, they weren't helping. You know, the only thing that really helped me was diet, exercise, and meeting others like myself. Exercise now plays a huge roll in my life. The depressed even the suicidal feeling never goes away, but I can manage it on my own. There's always something in the back of my mind that makes my death logical and desired.
What really pisses me off is when someone thinks that there is a reason for my depression. There is no reason, there is nothing in my life that if suddenly different would make my life better. I could win the lotto and marry a supermodel and still be depressed.- tehpoutine, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0oh poor you.
- bonk2k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1i know exactly what you are talking about. reasons for depression and suicidal thoughts are not logical. Sure anti-depressants may make you feel happier in general, but it doesnt always take away the suicidal feelings right away. it doesnt really make sense but thats how ive experienced it. When i started taking zoloft i wasnt completely paralyzed with depression anymore, in fact i was more social and energetic, but i still felt suicidal, even more so than before. After about a week those feelings went down considerably.
Depression isnt a logical disease. Its more than just "being sad all of the time." Theres never one thing that when taken away or added to your life will make it all better.
- Gatesophile, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's kind of ironic, really.
And since I am bipolar, but have been given Prozac and Cymbalta before, I see how it could happen, especially with misdiagnosing bipolar disorder as depression. - lokai, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This was a very interesting read, but I have known about this firsthand for many, many years. After being misdiagnosed by the mental health system of my state I had the pleasure of being put on a cocktail of medications which never belonged in my body. Those medications can be very nasty, and I have seen a lot of people change for the worse from being on them.
The main problem here is that too many children and adolescents are labeled left and right with some form of mental illness they usually end up NOT having. You wouldn't take my prescription medication, would you? Of course not; it doesn't belong in your body. Now imagine what it would be like for a child or teen to have medicine that shouldn't be in his system pumped into him every day.
The first thing that happens when you get into a mental hospital, short term or long term, is that you get drugged up on meds and rarely can you refuse them. Yes, of course you have the RIGHT to refuse them, but in my experiences refusal simply got you held down by larger guys and force-fed or injected.
It's sad, really; there are people out there who can really use this medication, but it doesn't seem as though there is enough filtering in place, at least in my state. Of course, due to the fact that too many people feel the mental health industry is flawless and filled with ethical, wonderful doctors who would never do anything to harm someone, who care for all of their patients, and who are incapable of making mistakes, I expect that I will get dugg down into oblivion. Such is the sad state of affairs in the USA. - Brocclibob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I know someone who was on anti depressants and they tried to kill them selves. Lucky they were so drugged up the fall did minor injuries. Its was about 15 meters.
- BlooSki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Anti-depressants don't *cure* anything. At best they are a crutch. At worst, they actually drive the person to violent acts. Although there is no proof of any chemical imbalance in the brain associated with a 'mental disorder' there is proof that drugs alter the chemistry in the brain. For example, drugs that block receptors cause the brain to compensate and grow extra receptors. Then if the person tries to go off the drugs, he is left with a previously not existing imbalance and often reacts strongly. Cruise was right. Find the real problem and don't rely on drugs.
- hdar3415, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My father was on antidepressants, as was my brother. My father committed suicide 01/82, he was 38. My brother committed suicide 04/99, he was 32. Maybe the antidepressants had nothing to do with it. Or maybe they did. I really feel there must have been something both of them had in common though. Neither one of them had ever threatened suicide, they just did it. It's a hard thing to deal with.
- mark101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0People, what are you thinking? Say I have an obsession with blue cars, no drug in the world can stop my mind from thinking about blue cars.If I am thinking depressing thoughts, again no drug can change that. Placibos work just as well or better as antidepressants. People are responsible for their actions not a drug. google "Placebos Improve Mood, Change Brain Chemistry in Majority of Trials of Antidepressants By Shankar Vedantam"
- Superkevbo, on 12/18/2007, -0/+1I think a black box warning would definitely be overkill. As long as people are aware of the danger, as well as their relatives if they are underage, it should be fine.
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