What is Digg?Sponsored by Sony Pictures
Adam Lambert sings the 2012 theme song, “Time for Miracles” view!
whowillsurvive2012.com - Watch the Adam Lambert music video for the 2012 theme song. See 2012, in theaters Nov 13
263 Comments
- Thue, on 06/12/2009, -6/+92That sounds to me like money well spend. Answering a question with "no" can be just as important as answering it with "yes". You need to accumulate both kinds of answers to best increase your knowledge.
- decromin, on 06/12/2009, -1/+56Medicine.
Thankyou, Tim Minchin!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujUQn0HhGEk - franklymister, on 06/12/2009, -13/+66"(Of course, they aren't mentioning how these findings would help Big Pharma...)"
Ah, tinfoil conspiracy theories. Is there ANYTHING you can't cast doubt on? - dygel, on 06/12/2009, -6/+53Know what the difference between medicine and alternative medicine is? Science. Medicine is a doctrine of science, responsible for all its silly obligations to evidence. Alternative medicine is mumbo jumbo that, sure, has plenty of anecdotes supporting it but people can't prove it actually does anything. And people can't prove it actually does anything because there isn't substantial proof there, not for lack of trying.
Now, "Big Pharma"... This is where people get nutty. Look, I think most of us can agree that we don't want the pharmaceutical corporations dictating how we live. Advertisements for pills for yellow toenails and bouncy leg syndrome are over the top. Knee-jerk reactions to medicate just about anything aren't a proper substitute for living healthy, eating right, and actually moving around once in a while (they've got a funny word for that last one).
However, if you can't see that the pharmaceutical corporations of the world have in fact given us a lot of better living through chemistry, you're blind. The way some people react whenever "Big Pharma" has a stake in something, you'd think they're the Tobacco Industry trying to push their product at gunpoint all of a sudden. - siamesedream, on 06/12/2009, -6/+49"Alternative medicine" simply refers to the field involving selling people supposed remedies and cures for ailments in which no product or claim is subject to the scientific method. The basic rules of rationality and logic fly out the window -- the same rules that dictate what is simply deemed "medicine".
Calling it "alternative medicine" is like saying 2+2=83 and calling it "alternative math". - inactive, on 06/12/2009, -4/+43Folks, this is why science works the way it does. People bitch and moan about skepticism and not being open-minded, but let's be perfectly clear here. Science works on the principle that if you make a claim, you have to back that claim up with evidence. You can't just make a claim and demand other people to refute it. It's a waste of resources to attempt to refute a claim which hasn't even been demonstrated to be valid in the first place.
- LimeParrot, on 06/12/2009, -3/+36Basically, even if a complementary alternative medicine (CAM) works for something, it won't be favored unless it's the only available treatment. As an example, St. John's Wort actually works for mild depression (e.g. first line in Germany) but it has so many side effects, interactions and CAM-associated issues (e.g. quality and standardization of active ingredients is difficult) that it will never becomes first line in most countries (e.g. Australia) for depression. This is because CAM are found in nature and contain many active ingredients -- and tend to have LOTS of effects on the body, most of which will be unfavorable. This is the differentiation with pharmaceutical products - which have a single active ingredient with a known and extensively studied drug profile. Even if a CAM if found to have beneficial effects, the ultimate aims would be to identify the beneficially active constituents, isolate them, and synthetically reproduce them. In fact many pharmaceutical medicines were originally from plants (e.g. atropine, a drug that opens up the pupil, is from the plant "atropa belladonna" - which translates to 'beautiful eyes'). That's why the argument that herbal medicines are better because "they're natural" is extremely flawed.
Aah. Rant over. Back to study. Kthxbye. - Animal, on 06/11/2009, -2/+25What do you call alternative medicine that works?
- ralph123, on 06/12/2009, -1/+23The problem is not that they try to find out if alternative medicine works, but how the go about it.
Some quotes from the article:
Many scientists say that unconventional treatments hold promise and deserve serious study, but that the federal center needs to be more skeptical and selective.
"There's not all the money in the world and you have to choose" what most deserves tax support, said Barrie Cassileth, integrative medicine chief at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York.
"Many of the studies that have been funded I would not have funded because they seem irrational and foolish — studies on distant healing by prayer and energy healing, studies that are based on precepts and ideas that are contrary to what is known in terms of human physiology and disease," she said.
...
Critics also say the federal center's research agenda is shaped by an advisory board loaded with alternative medicine practitioners. They account for at least nine of the board's 18 members, as required by its government charter. Many studies they approve for funding are done by alternative therapy providers; grants have gone to board members, too.
...
That is opposite how other National Institutes of Health agencies work, where scientific evidence or at least plausibility is required to justify studies, and treatments go into wide use after there is evidence they work — not before.
"There's very little basic science behind these things. Most of it begins with a tradition, or personal testimony and people's beliefs, even as a fad. And then pressure comes: 'It's being popular, it's being used, it should be studied.' It turns things upside down," said Dr. Edward Campion, a senior editor who reviews alternative medicine research submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine. - dipdog21, on 06/12/2009, -4/+25This study is pointless. Alternative medical practitioners will simply "move the goal post's" when a study shows no effect. They will claim that the study was not done right, the wrong part of the plant was used and so on. When there is no science behind there claims they simply use non-scientific evidence to prove it like anecdotal evidence and the placebo effect. Also the Digger's comment about big pharma in the title shows the kind of clear bias that true science disregards.
- bombula, on 06/12/2009, -7/+25I'm shocked - SHOCKED.
You know 99% of herbal voodoo mumbojumbo is ***** when the Holy Grail of traditional medicine eluded witchdoctors for 5000+ years and modern medicine got there in 50 years: Viagra.
Case closed. - noisician, on 06/12/2009, -1/+19get a clue
obviously many medicines come from natural sources
when one is found, it is analyzed and the active ingredients are identified
this way:
- active ingredients can be isolated (or synthesized or gotten from other sources)
- other ingredients can be eliminated (limit side effects)
- active ingredients can be delivered in precise doses (hard to do when chewing on bark)
- tested to determine exactly how effective it is
- tested to see if there are any side effects or interactions with other drugs
but i guess nobody would want any of that, right?
once these things happen, people refer to it as "medicine" instead alternative medicine (aka not medicine) - emotecontrol, on 06/12/2009, -1/+17...and subsequently tested in controlled conditions, proving its efficacy.
Really, this isn't hard. If there's reason to believe it might work, you do scientific tests. If those tests say it doesn't work, you forget about it. We have $2.5 billion worth of tests that show that pretty much everything they sell in capsules at "health food" stores is junk. - KtoheE, on 06/12/2009, -7/+21Alternative medicine has no scientific backing hence till proven contrary its BOGUS. It´s the old "take my word for it" BS or the "I have a friend who improved after trying it". Reflexology, Magnet therapy, chiropractic, homeopathic "medicine" deliver very little of what the claim to provide, if anything at all.
- chriskzoo, on 06/12/2009, -8/+20Placebo effect.
- riseinhell, on 06/12/2009, -3/+15RTFA. The problem isn't that they spent the money, it's that they spent it on testing alternate therapies that have no chance of working, and that even when they found therapies were useless, they didn't make a big fuss about it so as not to offend those who use them.
"Echinacea is an example. After a large study by a top virologist found it didn't help colds, its fans said the wrong one of the plant's nine species had been tested. Federal officials agreed that more research was needed, even though they had approved the type used in the study." - siamesedream, on 06/12/2009, -1/+13It is clear you haven't the slightest idea how the system you criticize even works.
- DankBuddz, on 06/12/2009, -4/+16Marijuana.
- Mike17102, on 06/12/2009, -1/+13While having a positive attitude is important, you arnt going to "believe" away an infection.
- LimeParrot, on 06/12/2009, -3/+15You've sort of missed the point. Many people ignore the advice of doctors/pharmacists and use alternative medicine and that delays appropriate therapy suggested by healthcare professionals. When there is a greater body of evidence that something doesn't work for this and that, it's easier to convince people.
There is a difference between using alternative medicines when all avenues are exhausted and using alternative medicine because you're skeptical of modern healthcare, which is by far the best thing we've got. - raptorlightning, on 06/12/2009, -3/+14Ahh the good ol' Placebo effect.
- jiqiren, on 06/12/2009, -13/+24I'd rather pay for this then pay for GM, CitiBank, AIG, or some other lame bailout.
- ApokalypseNow, on 06/12/2009, -1/+11None of them were pushing deregulation like W's administration. Had the regulations on the financial sector remained in place, we might not be in this pickle. Allowing financial institutions to go shopping for a regulator didn't help either - the biggest banks to go down the tubes were all overseen by the Office of Thrift Supervision, the weakest of all the regulatory agencies.
Let this be a lesson to future generations - when you let the foxes pick the guard dogs, don't be surprised when the chicken coop goes empty. - Thue, on 06/12/2009, -0/+10I think the 'It's being popular, it's being used, it should be studied.' is a good enough reason, even if the claim is a priori highly unlikely. If millions of people believe in it and use it, then it is good to debunk it once and for all. Science need not exist in a vacuum, but can be related to what people actually use in real life.
- maliath, on 06/12/2009, -0/+9Taxol, aspirin, ergot alkaloids, opiates, curare ... the list goes on.
You're 100% right. Western medicine has never been afraid of plants or natural products. It's been necessary part of the hunt for medicines that work. - gohepcat, on 06/12/2009, -5/+14Is there a way I can filter out anyone who uses the words "Big Pharma"? T
- inactive, on 06/12/2009, -1/+10All medicine is "alternative" until it's actually proven to work. Aspirin, for example, was once considered an "herbal cure". As it turns out, it WAS an herbal cure. The problem nowadays is that people are completely abandoning the Scientific Method, and going off whatever Crazy they happen to be personally fond of. In many cases, you end up with Jenny McCarthy-level Crazy, which actually ends up endangering people. I have nothing against testing alternative cures- hell, go read "Lorenzo's Oil" if you want to see a case of a "crazy alternative cure" that actually ended up helping people. What I'm against is people pushing their Quack Cures in the face of absolute evidence that there's no benefit to it.
- noisician, on 06/12/2009, -1/+10that's not what the study said
way to go all conspiracy theory on it - rrife, on 06/12/2009, -4/+13Coincidence.
- emotecontrol, on 06/12/2009, -1/+10Chiropractic has a very slim range of conditions it's able to treat. It's good for back pain, but certainly not the myriad ailments that many chiropractors claim it can treat.
- zsavior, on 06/12/2009, -10/+18People I never bought into the "alternative medicine" mobo jumbo but those of you that believe big Pharma is on your side you are going to have a horrible golden years. My mother has the money to buy every drug known to man that is legal, and you know what? Her quality of life is horrible, the medicine she took for her diabetes, killed her Kidneys, because of her kidneys failures she is on Dialysis. I repeat the diabetes didn't kill her kidneys the medicine to treat the diabetes to stop it from hurting her organs killed her organs.
Because of the lack of fluid intake, her bowels are hardening, so they prescribe more medication to move her bowels because she can't drink water, or mostly any liquid, being on Dialysis. But the prescribed laxatives raise her blood sugar making her diabetes go out of wack. And the vicious cycle goes on, my mom worked for years in this country, she was a wage slave, that is Big Pharma's purpose. Not to make your quality of life better but to keep you idiots moving till you die, or can't work any more.
But keep hyping it up, Note the life expectancy of Americans is so much lower than people in other countries such as Japan, France, and other place with better health care. The only "alternative Medicine" that works is rest relaxation, and proper diet. But no many of you are worked to death, you never see a vacation you are worried to death and you dare not rest in fear you will be homeless.
So they create pills to make you happy (zoloft) you can't afford to eat healthy and have good meals so your stomach rips you up so you now need (zantac) but that doesn't make the food healthy so you are now on (lipator) to keep the cholesterol laden food from killing. you. You get migraines they put you on migraine meds, they don't bother actually finding what gives you those head aches then you wouldn't need the meds, The U.S.A is known for its complete lack of preventative medicine.
The medicines are so toxic that it starts a vicious circle the minute you take it No matter how much weight you lose. The minute you get on them they create a dependency that dependency now needs other medication and the downward spiral starts. If I didn't see it with my very own eyes I wouldn't believe it. But if you believe big pharma wants you better good luck with that. Enjoy being at dialysis three days out of seven, and enjoy being at a different doctor every day for a new medication to counter act a problem some other medication caused.
P.S. Diabetes is actually the best part if you get Heart Disease God help you. But hey maybe I am full of it. - breadfred, on 06/12/2009, -7/+15You see, it takes time for economic policies to filter through. GW took 8 years to get your country in its current state. You expect it to be back to normal in less then 6 months?
- bob_the_alien, on 06/12/2009, -0/+8that's right,
Weed is THE Alternative Medicine. - inactive, on 06/12/2009, -2/+9WRONG! I take a natural supplement to improve my memory and it works wonders! I can't remember what it's called but I would swear by it.
- sonnybobiche, on 06/12/2009, -14/+21I could have inferred this from the fact that everyone who touts the efficacy of "alternative medicine" is always crazy. Seriously, have you ever met someone who was big on alternative medicine that you didn't think was a bit weird?
- Djerrid, on 06/12/2009, -1/+8$2.5B? Damn, that was one expensive Mythbusters episode.
- JohnFrum, on 06/12/2009, -1/+7Have you seen the profit margine on that herbal crap? It's really high. At least the real stuff works.
- quill, on 06/12/2009, -1/+7I don't believe the pharmaceutical industry is benevolent.
But I do believe that the best way to make a billion dollars overnight is to release a cure for a disease.
There's no reason to hide this crap. And frankly probably no way to do so. Someone would leak the internal reports to make a quick buck. If these natural cures -- which are apparently all around us -- really worked, people would know. Any number of researchers would easily be able to put together a study to test it.
In fact, this is exactly what happens. There is no shortage of natural "cures' available all over the place. Natural health stores aren't being burned down by the pharma mafia.
It's just that the crap doesn't work. - Mothrog, on 06/12/2009, -0/+6"There's also no money for Big Pharma to push herbal remedies on you."
Right, because they certainly didn't make any money selling aspirin, the active ingredient in willow tea, which has been used by many for a long time. - emotecontrol, on 06/12/2009, -0/+6http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/
- LimeParrot, on 06/12/2009, -2/+8Nice comment good sir.
- LingNoi, on 06/12/2009, -3/+9First hand experience isn't evidence, real evidence is reproduced in a lab with many 1000s of other subjects. The "works for me" line means nothing.
- SpinningHead, on 06/12/2009, -1/+7That's true, but lets not confuse the guys in suits who try to profit from the research with the guys in lab coats who use science to develop better treatments.
- SpinningHead, on 06/12/2009, -0/+5Just as a side note. Women in the Renaissance used to take belladonna to look more beautiful. Sadly, the plant also caused serious brain damage.
- drinking12many, on 06/12/2009, -2/+7In other news guess what... heard of snake oil?.... total scam
- Aletheiaphile, on 06/12/2009, -2/+7With the people I know it seems to be more of an elitist affectation/ quasi religion. They have some special knowledge or insight that us poor suffering idiots don't have.
- inactive, on 06/12/2009, -1/+6Ginseng sells about US$1000 per kg "raw" because of the demand created by alternative medicine,
Echinacea alone is a 80 millions USD$ market in the States.
Come down from your high horse. - dygel, on 06/12/2009, -0/+5Sometimes they are, yes. But sometimes they're also saving your life. That's something Big Tobacco couldn't claim ever; the only thing they save anyone from is their own products.
That's my point. The pharmecutical industry is vast and diversified. Yeah, they're trying to sell ED and allergy pills. But they're also fighting hypertension and helping people control cholesterol. It's the same industry doing both and you can't separate the two parts. You can discredit the entire industry as a whole, sure, but that makes you into one of those ***** crazies who lets their kid die they're too proud to buy proven medicine that saves lives. - div2n, on 06/12/2009, -1/+6At least one of the herbs listed in that article has been shown to have equal efficacy to its pharmaceutical equivalent -- Saw Palmetto and Finasteride.
http://www.medicinenet.com/saw_palmetto/article.ht ... - noisician, on 06/12/2009, -1/+6well, that's quite an assertion you have there.
why bother with facts or reason when you have assertions, right? -
Show 51 - 100 of 271 discussions
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is