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- PatrickFisher, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31I disagree with the article's point, but I like your thinking Tweakers. However, I have something else to point out.
The article says:
"[The GUI is] unlike anything they're likely to encounter on any other computer "
I think that they're wrong. it should be stated more like this:
The GUI is unlike anything that is currently on any other computer.
Millions of children will learn to use this simple, easy to use system. These millions will be the ones who grow up to become the programmers and computer builders of the future (case in point: Look at India right now)
I doubt the interface will ruin computing for all of these children. I think that it will revolutionize the GUI for everybody. I can guarantee that some children will tinker with the OS, and learn from it. Then they will use their experience when they get jobs, and will always remember the system they learned on. (Everybody remembers what Win 95 (3.1 if you're a little older) was like)
Guys, take another good look at this video. That's the future of GUI. - judgeFire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28They're lucky if they get to skip the anomaly known as Windows ;)
- anitab83, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20Plus honestly, many of these kids may never see another computer for many many years (like until their governments buy them OLPC 2.0). Any computer would have to be better than nothing. Heck, if we gave every kid in the world a Speak-n-Read in their language, 75% of the world's children would be getting a better education than they do already.
We shouldn't knock the program just because the computer has an interface we're not accustomed to. - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Try to build a laptop running XP for 100$ and we will talk about it.
- rocke86, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13This wouldn't work as well for many reasons:
high power usage
little access to ac power is some places
old laptop batteries, would need to be replaced to get a decent life, even then won't last as long
durability
Portability, no bag needed built in handle in olpc
size, most American laptops a rather big
Dust buildup, there is no fan in the olpc
no portrait tablet mode for easy reading
No black and white low power consumption mode.
Shipping cost
Use in sunlight
more harmful materials
water resistance
cost of repairs could easily exceed replacement cost
Less black and grey market selling(the green color designates it as a child machine) - kanemano, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Just like any kid who grew up using a mac can't use a PC,
Stupid article - JoJoWalker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Exactly. It's like seeing a headline that says
"Millions of Kids Who Learned to Game On Atari Cannot Figure Out New Fangled Nintendo." - EmileVictor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12You've got to be kidding me. You obviously don't have in mind the backgrounds of the kids who are likely to receive these. They probably haven't got any standard at all to compare their computer GUI against for gods sake.
And if they became proficient enough at computers to complain at the lack of functionality, they could just learn how to hack the things and make them more useful. That's what I see happening with these things. - Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13I think you are hideously wrong. To quote your blog:
"By not including a normal computing interface on these OLPC laptops, the kids of the third world won’t learn to use a computer, but they will learn to use something virtual and superficial."
Firstly, what is a "normal" computing interface?
Secondly, what's virtual or superficial about sugar?
They _will_ learn to use a computer, and to be honest if they ever use a windows machine they'll see it for the unintuitive interface it really is. - DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10OK... lets see here... We'll need....
Operating System.... AUD$550.00
Uh... no can do. Sorry! - krinthekuz, on 09/16/2008, -0/+9you sell yourself short when you think people are learning how to use a UI rather than a computer. if a UI is truly good, a user should be able to figure most things out by using it for only a few minutes. hell, my girlfriend figured out gnome in like 30 seconds. by pushing people to use specific UIs, you stifle innovation and are merely spreading FUD. by encountering different UIs, they'll get used to different UIs and won't have problems when they pick up a new device that has another UI. americans have problems with cellphones and other devices because of this exact problem. every system they've ever seen has had a start menu and a taskbar. they don't know what to do at a different UI and have not been trained to accept other UIs. OLPC children will have been trained to use different UIs, and will innovate better, bc they won't be stuck in the rut of "this is what it's supposed to look like"
- carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8hell, try building several million of them, ruggedize them, then make them able to be charged without a power outlet.
- Aziere, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Google is just as much an address bar itself. You can type links in it too, it's just another click. I think Firefox's address bar is the ultimate solution. You just type whatever you need in it and it goes there without fault (most of the time).
In case people don't know, typing "imdb x-men" without quotes in Firefox will lead you to the X-Men page on imdb, and so forth. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Yes, let's deny kids who've never seen a computer the opportunity because it doesn't conform to a common Mac, Windows or Linux OS look and feel.
It doesn't matter. This UI isn't that far off from any of the above OS's UIs. They'll be fine.
Author of this article is coming off as a bit of a snob. - JavertHolmes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I'm sure glad my Commodore-64 shipped with KDE and Gnome when I was 7, otherwise I'd be screwed on the modern systems I use today.
- williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Damn straight. Nobody ever got anywhere imitating Windows. Windows is not a particularly good GUI. And the whole point of a GUI is to be easy for the user - they shouldn't have to "learn" a GUI. Nobody "learns" the interface on their mobile phone (except Crackberry addicts).
From what I have seen of OLPC, it will drive a lot of GUI innovation. Good on them. - iamwonton, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Exactly kanemano....I started in other OS's and "figured out" dos, windows, mac and linux.
Give the people some credit. - booc0mtaco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Yes, a very dumb article.
It's hard to imagine a person being so short-sighted as to believe anything about using computers is somehow intuitive. Really. Even with the mouse, unless you know what it is for, you would not have any idea how to use it.
Kids, no matter their background, are better at figuring out things like this. There was once an article about a researcher in india who placed a internet connected pc out in a yard where poor children had access to it. within weeks, they had, without any instruction, found, and downloaded mp3s, games, and surfed the web.
No doubt, if this machine catches on, we will have a large group of people thinking differently about UI, and making the same argument as this author, against the more common UIs today. - romsel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13no address bar in the web browser? I think this project is gonna be one of the biggest flops!
- PhillyMJS, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5After watching the video of the GUI, I gotta say I'm not crazy about it-- but I strongly disagree with the "ruin computing" argument.
That's the same nonsense that gets constantly trotted out when school boards try to make a case for replacing classroom Macs in their districts with Windows machines: "They should be taught on what they'll use when they get out in the real world!" Oh, *****. The schools are supposed to teach -concepts- that can be applied and/or adapted in different situations, not specifics. Teaching a kid to only use Windows instead of teaching him/her general computing concepts would be like only teaching them 12 x 17 = 204 instead of teaching them how to do long multiplication of any two numbers.
The same logic applies here. The children who use the OLPC machine will be armed with knowledge of GUI concepts, and they will apply them in the future should they come across OS X, Windows, or any Linux GUI. There will certainly be a transition period, but it will surely be shorter than if they had never had the use of a computer at all.
~Philly - curios, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4looks more than satisfactory to me, any way they will begin to discover about other operating systems on the Internet, just like i did with linux.
I'd say its an excellent and affordable intro to computing for the third world. - triplehelix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4actually hopefully some of these kids will end up creating more tech jobs (and others as well if they do) in their local area, so in essence the better they do the more secure your job is.
- razishaban, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"children" like me think that any kid who can't figure out an OS in less than a couple of weeks shouldn't be using a computer anyway. Picture that, people who are computer-idiotic not using computers! Watch 99.9999999% of the virus problem disappear overnight...
- exsst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5there will be options in the browser for sure.
- DoubtfulSalmon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Thirdly, which part of "We're deliberately making these things *different* to lower the likelihood of misappropriation" DON'T YOU MORONS UNDERSTAND?
- crcurran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4When a child doesnt have any computer to having one, it's a huge jump. This interface compred to Windows Office is far far less of a jump. I think this interface teaches what they need to know.
In 5 to 15 years from now when children have grown up and have to use other computers like Windows/Linux interfaces will be different that what we have today.
I digg this so that people can see the interface and decide for themselves. - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3That's a joke, dude - right? There are undoubtedly the next Stallmans, Torvalds, and other geniuses among those kids. They WILL be competing for your job. Get over it.
- Scott2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This arguement is ***** for the same reason the "PCs are better for education because they're mainstream" arguement is *****. The simple fact remains: Kids are some of the most adaptable people in the world. They'll be just fine when they move on from the OLPC.
- dono169, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I know... do they expect everything to go through Google?
- dono169, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9It seems like they are underestimating the 3rd world children and giving them a much too dumbed down system.
Why not give them the power to explore and learn about their machine the same way Western kids can?
Will the OLPC kids not have favorite sites they want to bookmark? Will they not have programs they want to download? - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You can buy one for $200. That's less than the price of a Wii.
- AlbinoRaven, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3So true...
Started on the ZX-80 and then the ZX-81 and Apple ][...all things considered we're light years ahead of what was a "desktop" twenty five+ years ago.
Regardless of the UI design, kids will figure out what they need to do. What I'm trying to figure out is how patch management is supposed to work on the OLPC. While it's all flash based, and flash memory has come a long way, I have newer routers that if the patch doesn't take you end up having to reset flash the entire IOS on the router. Same can be said of server and desktops during BIOS upgrade cycles in an office.
What I don't see is support for some kid stuck in a village with no phone and nothing but other kids learning this tool. Is the documentation going to read like a MAN file? I hope not, all you need to do is look at the linux boards and newsgroups to see how effective the documentation is sometimes. Five thousand newbies asking the same question. "how do I mount a disk?" "My soundcard isn't working" "USB mouse stopped working".
These things happen and it's the documentation that everyone falls back on. - CarzorStelatis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The WHOLE POINT of this program is that it provides children who CANNOT AFFORD a computer with a 'normal' interface, so the fact that it will not teach them to use a 'normal' interface is completely irrelevant.
- mitrovarr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"ok so here's another idea; as opposed to giving kids a laptop with this installed, why doesn't the net community get together on some kind of project and donate their old laptops they don't use anymore and giving that to underpriveleged kids?"
Aside from the reasons the other poster listed, there aren't enough. The number of underprivileged kids in third world countries probably outnumbers the total number of inhabitants of first-world countries, and not all of them have obsolete machines to donate. Worthwhile, working old laptops are especially rare. - pozzoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, just like the C64 with basic I learn computing with ruined my computing experience. Or like the PC with DOS I own latter ruined it. Or like the Windows 95 computer I got then....
The point is I am using gnome now. And if I want to use Enlightenment I just use it, I don't get suddenly scared by it.
I'm sure anything they use now will be very different from what they'll end up using when they grow up. The important thing is that, having learned to use a computer at young age, they will cope with it.
And for the "starving kids issues"... it is ridiculous. I don't know how people can allow themselves to speak so freely about things they don't know without even a little research. I posted an answer to that blog (under the name nbates) - ungamedplayer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sugar isn't lame.. the article is.
- thetron, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If a kid can operate and manage multi-able remote controls. They'll have no problems using OLPC in my opinion
It's easy learning curve to use as kids are like sponges. Where an adult would find it harder to learn - kaniz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The various GUIs I was exposed to as a kid growing up with computers look nothing like the GUI's we used today. Dont see what the big fuss is about.
- kayjay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ok if this is sugar... where is the whip?
- jbus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The more computer systems one is familiar with the easier it is to transition between differing systems. These kids will learn that it's not the end of the world when they can't find the "Start" menu or the blue E icon unlike many of their counterparts in the U.S. This is a good thing. This will not be the limit of their exposure to different kinds of computers, but hopefully the beginning.
This is a lot like learning languages, the more languages you speak the easier it is for you to pick up other languages because you can easily pick up on the similarities and differences in each language. The same goes for operating systems & computers. - WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Its easy to fubar linux"
What? What? Are you really that ***** retarded? I'm just curious. - SmokeTetsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I wouldn't say it's unlike anything they might encounter on a regular computer. The fullscreen iPhoto interface is a lot like that one. At any rate it still has a lot of the most common interface elements like icons, toolbars, scrollbars, etc.The only difference here is it has a fullscreen interface again like iPhoto.
Also kids especially if they grow up on computers are more adaptable than one might give them credit for. So I don't see this ruining regular computers for them at all. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1FTFA: "It's pretty cool looking, until you start to wonder whether it wouldn't have made more sense to include a Gnome or KDE desktop."
Does this guy not know the specs of the OLPC? Or does he not understand what Gnome and KDE really consist of? - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@willynilly
PCs could learn form mobile phones. 800+ million mobile phones will be sold this year, and NOBODY WILL CALL TECH SUPPORT to figure out how to use them. Except for the misnamed "smart" phones: Where do the support calls come from? Windows Mobile, Crackberry, and Palm users.
On most phones, you just communicate. The UI, even if it is not a very good UI - viz Moto - it at least stays out of your way. - TritonX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It's not because you don't see it that you can't get the url. There must be something like, File-open/show location.
- AlbinoRaven, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Just thought of another thing.
With all of these laptops heading to some rougher areas of the world. What's going to stop a larger human taking away the smaller human's laptop? Even UNICEF has huge problems with Well development and water management in some countries. The NGO's go in, dig the well and after the well is finished, local thugs move in and take over the supply and charge people for fresh water. The people the water was supposed to help doesn't help them because they are in most cases destitute, so they end up drinking from the same malaria infested water as before.
All I'm seeing from this whole project is another thing that someone can kill for in no specific situation. After all how much gun/ammo can a $100 laptop bring a thief? The object in question is higher than the GDP per capita in most of the countries it is intended for.
Plus as a mesh network it would make an excellent field communication device to move squads around, say, an oil rig in Sierra Leone to pop the engineers working on the platforms. Or a coordinated attack and "cleansing" of refugee settlements in Rwanda. Computers are great, but they way these things are built (tonka tough) and operate (smooth as linux). The para-military and military uses are quite obvious. Although the iMac colour scheme might be a little, erm, less bully boy than a soldier would want. I'm sure that someone will figure out how to make it camo colour. - GeorgeBlume, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That computer might be the only computer those kids EVER get their hands on even as adults. I think getting anything in their hands is a good thing. It won't hurt them. I learned on a Commedore 64 which doesn't resemble any computers of today. That didn't hurt me. I say get them computers and internet access. It is the internet access that is the most important thing. If they can get the kids that, they are successful.
- zeiben, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Squeak (etoys) is a fascinating project, but I feel for the kids that are going to be trying to use it without lots of support.
- Coronagold, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Hey, anything that keeps their little faces glued to a screen instead of toting around an M16 or a belt bomb sounds as good a diversion as any.
- molecule, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1FTA: "The entire operating system has been retooled, probably to work well on a small screen..."
probably not. The GUI perhaps... -
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