What is Digg?90 Comments
- Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+68I watch Hollywood movies, and gas tanks explode all the time, usually right after the car does a triple flip after hitting a minor obstacle.
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -4/+61Ever watch Mythbusters when they tried to make gasoline explode?
- Gryffydd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+48"you ***** genious"
Oh! The irony, it hurts! - plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+46Yes but gas tanks are constructed quite well and the fuel systems are usually very well protected. There have only been a few exploding cars (Pinto, Fiero...) and even when cars catch fire, they don't burst into huge balls of explosive flame like they do in the movies. I've seen cars burn... the fire dept. shows up and walk right up the burning vehicle with no fear that it's going to explode any second. I've seen cars burn all the way to ash with no explosion.
The relative probability that a battery (or batteries) could short out from a loose connection, stray wire, or other random incident is MUCH higher than a gasoline-related incident. I think the point is that auto makers have a pretty good handle on making gasoline storage and delivery systems pretty darn safe these days, but they still have quite a bit of work to do in securing the relatively new electric and battery systems from catastrophic outcomes.
That's not to say that maybe they could be trying harder... or maybe not. Conspiracy theorists will, undoubtedly, say it's all about the oil game. Whatever. - Mudcrutch, on 10/12/2007, -32/+76"Lithium is highly combustible, and if the battery packs are not assembled very carefully, they can easily short out and catch fire."
Oh yea I forgot that gas is such a safe, passive material. - chrisOrbit, on 10/12/2007, -5/+49Think about a dell laptop burning a hole in your desk. now imagine it 500 times bigger and you are inside. I would want them to take their time personally.
- plncrzy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+27@maximumvelocity
Do a little research before you spout off. There's a difference between "accelerated burn" and "explosion". It's a common misconception that gasoline "explodes" inside the engine. - sanbruno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15"I have confidence that the Tesla Roadster will meet the performance claims made for it when it hits the road later this year, the question that only time can answer, is how robust will it be in the environment that real cars have to deal with."
Oh, I'm sure it is durable enough to drive up and down the Santa Monica Blvd. - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Nope. The hyrbid technology uses features directly from the EV1. They just ditched the aluminum frame due to the cost and added a gasoline powered charging unit.
- peregrine, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14Digg is becoming like a lobbyist's dream. People who want certain political things to be advertised and people who want people to never see them are running amok. For instance Barak Obama is getting a ton of free publicity while if any republican has a story that's actually good from a credible news source its buried every time. But if its bad for them its front page material. Now along the lines of today's political atmosphere I'm a Dem, but I still believe in fairness....and the whole weighted digg thing is getting a little out of hand.
Now where did this come from? Theres a few people who are down digging everyone who voices support for this article of anyone who doesn't believe in every point of the doc 'Who killed the electric car'. Now I agree with this article and have been saying similar things for years. Its the same reason why Hybrids took 4 years or more to take off and why this generation of electrics is going to take another 5 at least because this time your not only changing the engine your changing the fuel, the systems, and all the stuff has to be re-engineered to meet safety and insurance qualifications. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+91) Batteries can be recycled. (Oil is getting rarer every day)
2) Less hazardous than fumes from gas! (And you can recycle them)
3) Range on the newer cars will compare with gas vehicles.
4) Electricity will cost about 10%-30% of what you'd pay for gas. I don't know where you got your numbers from - source?
5) Newer Li batteries can be charged 10,000 times. Thus you certainly could get 150,000 miles from them.
6) They do right now, but the price will come down. The Tesla Roadster is $80k and they're releasing a luxury sedan soon for $50k. A comparable luxury car (BMW, Merc, whatever) will only cost a little less and over it's lifetime will cost you much more.
7) You're making this up. Source?
Try again. - dawgma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This article is actually for people who are interested in what's behind the "boiled-down" answer. An article like this explains where the costs come from and what they amount to.
Sorry bud. Thanks for playing, though. - UrbanVoyeur, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7While I respect the author's expereince, this article is too much of an apology & justification for timidity, poor planning, and lack of innovation at the major auto manufacturers.
Every industry is tough. Every industry is competitive. Manufacturing is always expensive. Most startups in every industry fail. Every new technology is unproven. Every industry is regulated.
So what.
The US Big 3 have once again failed to recognize a trend until is runs them over, have once again failed to utilize readily available off the shelf technology to solve surmountable hurdles and when faced with a market challenge have once again failed to bring any new ideas to the table and failed to take even the smallest risk.
No news here.
The lack of quality would be acceptable if it was offset by leaps in technology, dramatically lower prices, radically new designs or even modest improvements in fuel efficiency. The American auto manufacturers deliver on NONE of these. Not one.
So tell me again why we should cut them some slack?
One more thing...
If hybrids and electrics are sooo hard to build, how is it than a few guys in a garage in the UK are able to convert an off the shelf BMW Mini Cooper into a 90 mpg hybrid using stock parts and batteries?
And mind you, they did this NOT to start a car or conversion company, but just to demonstrate the capabilities of their electric motors and control systems.
The US big 3 could find a clue in a field full of clues if they smeared themselves with clue musk and did the clue mating dance. - futureb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7the writer is knowledgeable, but the article sounds like one big apology for the industry. battery power has been around...how long? electric cars have been operating...how long?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7No, you're wrong. Quit spreading FUD. Look at the battery specs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Battery
The battery hold 56kwh and makes the car go for 250 miles.
At 10 cents per KWH the battery costs $5.60 to charge up. 5 Bucks!!!
How much does it cost you to fill up your tank?
The average car that gets 20mpg costs 2 or 3 bucks to go 20 miles. The tesla costs 9 cents to go 20 miles. - paker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+51) True, but as with any new technology breakthrough the cost is high
2) Batteries are quite recyclable
3) The Tesla has about a 250 mile range, The Chevy Volt has a built in generator. The majority of driving in America is less the 50 miles per day.
4) Where do you get this info from?
How much does it cost to charge the car?
Energy usage usually works out to about .4 kWh per mile for DC systems, and .174 - .288 kWh for the more efficient AC systems. You can multiply this by your electricity rate to get a cost per mile. For example, if you pay $0.13 per kilowatt hour, this works out to a little over a nickel a mile for DC and about half that for AC. For comparison, gas at $2.00 per gallon on an efficient 25 mpg car works out to almost $0.08 per mile.
To look at total operating costs, you need to also factor in battery replacement at about 4 year intervals ($1,000 - $3,000) balanced against 4 years of tune-ups, oil changes, mufflers, starters, water pumps, radiators, etc.
http://www.electroauto.com/info/cost.shtml
5) See #4
6) A conversion can be done for much less.
7) See the A123 video of their lithium battery. http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/safety.html# - aprice2704, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Depending on your electricity rate, cars like the Tesla roadster will cost 10% to 30% per mile compared to gasoline. Otherwise, why bother?
- BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Regarding heat - go touch an exhaust pipe or your engine while the car's running. Something tells me you'll get burned. As for the batteries - you just told us what will happen if you touched the electrodes. Why the hell would you do that, knowing you might get injured? I think the problem is not the car, but lack of common sense that causes injuries. You're just as likely to loose a limb fixin a gas car as any other kind, if you're not following safety directions.
- aprice2704, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@dfick -- source is simple math and tesla's data:
Tesla does 250mi between charges = approx 400km, tesla quote 1.14 km/MJ "wall to wheel" efficiency so one needs ...
402 [km] / 1.14 [km/MJ] = 353 MJ for a charge
1 electricity "unit" is 1 kW/hr = 1000 [J/s] * 3600 [s] = 3.6 MJ and costs 5-10 cents (depending, bulk rates can go as low as 1c)
Thus we need 353 / 3.6 = 98 units to charge.
At 5c a unit that means 98*0.05 = $4.90 for a 250 mile charge, or 2c per km.
My 1994 Corolla (entirely gas) gets 500km for 35L of gas, currently costing about $35, or 7c / km.
The Tesla is therefore 28% of the cost to recharge compared to my Corolla. QED.
However, my car is by no means a sporty vehicle. Once gas gets more expensive (and it will) this advantage will grow.
:) - digitalunltd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Duh, its so sad that an article like this needs to be written. If batteries were practical they would be used. So until they are they wont be used. Sorry car companies don't have magic powers. Be patient, give it another 5-10 years things will be different, in the mean time use a bike or walk when possible.
- BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5 The article mentions the required service as an issue going against the cars, yet today's car's manufacturers make just as much money through service as at the point of purchase. From what I've heard, electric cars are actually more simple compared to the conventional gas vehicles. The motors don't require a complex transmission mechanism, and there are a lot less moving parts overall.
It is a difficult task, designing a car, yet every new model is designed practically from the ground up anyways. Very few components are backwards compatible, so I also see no problem here in switching to something completely different, even if it takes a few years.
Thermal perfomance is a serious issue, and the limited temperature range batteries can operate under, but gas engines are also vulnerable to unstable conditions. A heater could be incorporated for colder climates just like in the gas cars that are already in service. It's no catastrophy.
Stress sensitivity of lithium batteries? Does sound dangerous, but the author already points out that failure happens primarily due to manufacturing errors, improper assembly. The solution - greater investment into battery assembly lines. Batteries are made up of multiple blocks, so perhaps the cells could be separated better, so individual failure would not cause a chain reaction. All that provided we do go with lithium and not hydrogen fuel cells or other alternatives. He makes it sound as if we are limited to a single option.
Rescue crews having to deal with accidents? Procedures will have to change. There are ways of absorbing lithium just as there are substances for cleaning up gas and oil spills. We'll manage. Sure, battery acid exposure is more serious than contact with gasoline, but at least you're not as likely to ignite along with the rest of the car if you get covered in electrolyte and some spark starts a fire.
I think that the engineering problems can be resolved. There is an investment risk in new technology development, but it it's the same path with every new car, be that gas or electricity powered. Somehow we keep making one kind and not the other. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4The tesla goes 250 miles on a charge. Expect even more in future electric cars.
- LilBoyLuver, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Try it for yourselves. Go out side and get a small can of gasoline and light it on fire.....If it explodes Digg.com will pay your medical bills. I promise, the top will just burn but as soon as you add oxygen to the mix ie: kick it over it will make a huge fireball. It is a common misconception that gasoline is combustible it is only the vapor that is combustible. When your combustion engine "explodes:" it is in the vapor form.
- Charbax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4What a load of *****!
The only reason that big car manufacturers haven't mass produced electric cars yet is because it would lower the profit margins of their oil giant friends who are making hundreds of billions of dollars. Big car makers and big oil pumpers (in Iraq) are friends, that's all there is to it.
GM killed the electric car 15 years ago for no other reason than the fact they did not want people in the society to demand electric cars. The only reason is that California abandonned their law requiring the car makers produce electric cars.
The only thing that should happen, is that the democrats in the house and senate pass a law requiring car makers to produce electric cars by at least 15% of total production before the end of the year. This is totally feasable, to be sold at the same price as normal cars, to be safer than normal cars, to have as good a range as normal cars, to have 10-minute fast 480V recharging technology, more than 2000 full recharging cycles. And that the power shall come from clean atomic energy plants and renewable solar, wind and waves sources. - zdiggler, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They will have to make sure that Batteries work good in Weathers up here. Sometime it get so cold that lithium batteries in cell phones will stop working until they thaw out. Plus battery don't hold the charge good in the cold plus you gotta run heater from it not a good idea at all!
Actually charging the frozen battery mess up the battery. Even hybrid cars runs on gas most of the time up here in cold climates. - vvelox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3One hidden cost of battery only electric cars that is never mentioned is the need to own two.
With the Tesla one you get 250 miles max and li-ion looses around 20% max charge per year. This means if you live in KS or the like, you are screwed. You are stuck having to maintain two cars. One for local stuff and the other for trips outside of town.
By the way, there are a hell of a lot of places in the US where this can easily approach 250 miles round trip.
The battery only cars are only for city dwellers who don't take much in the way of trips. - aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm not an expert on battery technologies, so can you clue me in?
- KingMoses, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The nice thing about hypocrites is that you're bound to agree with them on at least one of their positions.
- BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3 I tend to agree with Parker. Car manufacturer's aren't likely to complain about high maintenance costs as that means extra profit for them. I have a car that needs transmission replacement. It costs $4000, how much would the batteries be in comparison?
- Mousse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@dfick
Charging is 99.9% efficient and if Li-ion batteries are unused they only discharge about 5% per month. Please don't throw random numbers, as you said misleading math is bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion - apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2No way GM spent $1 million for each EV1. That number is an accounting trick, added to some free government money they got for doing some token EV research. GM would have to be bonkers to spend their own money on something they expected to fail (GM's press coverage at the time made it clear they were expecting a failure.)
But, this is a bogus argument, anyway. It doesn't matter what you spend to develop a car. Because, no matter what, you're not getting that development money back, especially by killing your product. As long as there's interest, and you can earn more than your manufacturing cost, you keep selling it.
Remember, GM was caught lying about the size of the waiting list for this car. 5,000 people might not sound like a large list, but keep in mind that the car was only available to a limited section of the country. Scale that level of demand up to the whole country, or the world, and it's a number big enough to salivate over.
And the car wasn't even being marketed. - apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It doesn't matter what power plants burn. Electric cars don't cause anywhere near the pollution other cars do, and I will show exactly why.
*
First, only about half the electricity created comes from burning coal, but this is still our major pollution worry. Only 3% comes from oil.
*
But much electricity is wasted in the evening, and at night, because most powerplants can't be turned off when demand goes down. Electric cars charge mostly at night. There is currently enough wasted electricity to charge millions of electric cars, before more plants will need to be built. No new pollution will be created by using electricity that otherwise goes to waste.
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But how about when electric cars catch on, and new plants have to be built? Hopefully these will be clean plants. But even if they are coal plants, new designs for coal generated electrical plants are 85% efficient, far more efficient than your sub-25% efficient gasoline engine. Greater efficiency means more miles on less fuel, and therefore less pollution per mile.
*
But even if all the above were not true, electric cars would still produce much less pollution than gas cars, because of the greater efficiency of electric drive (electric motor, 95% efficient, versus gas engine, 25% efficient.) Delivering energy by wire to electric cars (95% efficient) is also much, much more efficient than trucking gas to thousands of service stations.
*
The proof of all this is right in the fuel prices. Gasoline costs at least 10 cents per mile. Electric cars drive around for only about a penny per mile. The difference comes from efficiency. Much greater efficiency = much less pollution.
*
Betcha didn't realize that your gas car uses electricity. Yep, large amounts of electricity is used to refine gasoline. Gasoline makes pollution during refining, it makes pollution when it's being delivered to gas stations, and it makes pollution when you use it. - squegie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I'll be looking for a way to make it go further. It's 15 miles to my gf's house, 30 miles round trip. It's 45 miles to the movies, or 90 round trip. During three days each week, I easily put on 150-200 miles on my car (with only two hour breaks in between). Currently, I'm fortunate enough to drive a '94 Ford Probe that gets 30-32 MPG in-town and on highway, has a 14 gallon tank and a rough cruising range of 400 miles.
Needing a 4 hour re-charge after 100 miles is dangerous. I know lots people that live in bigger cities like Baltimore and Philadelphia that drive about 40 miles each way to work (or idle in rush hour for the equivalent). While they hopefully would be able to recharge while at work... who knows. If a parking garage were to install re-chargers, I'm sure it would cost them -- probably works out to more per week than $4 in gas would cost. But if there is no recharge setup in place, then they only have about 20 miles of fudge room on the way home.
The numbers I picked for the electric cars stats are in the "not quite there yet range", meaning that's what we hope to see in a few more years, maybe. Unless miracle break-through occurs, it seems we'll remain on our petroleum dependency for at least another 10 years. - sissipher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I recently moved from FAT LAZY DETROIT! I truely hope the big 3 go the big flop, finished, overwith, companies that go belly up. About time that better companies build cars and use better technology. However, we need to also get better people in the gov't especially since the big 3 are in bed with the oil companies.
- objbuilder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry for this rant that's not really on topic... but someone has to call a spade a spade. The author sites the many older American cars still on the road as evidence that the US has reached quality parity with other countries like Japan and Germany but you can bet your sweet ass every one of their owners had to shell out thousands of their hard earned cash to fix the rolling turds. While there are some rare exceptions, American quality is still ***** and an utter disgrace and a travesty to anyone unfortunate and foolish enough to buy one. Like my father who only buys American... his reward is gigantic folders full of repair bills and long trails of lemons. My very first new car was a Chrysler (naive fit of patriotism) and even before reaching 80K the motor mounts were loose as Paris Hilton and the transmission shook violently when shifting from 3rd to 4th gear. Utter *****. Thanks for fleecing your own, big 3. They have absolutely earned their crappy reputation and deserve to go bankrupt. Except for auto mechanics the world will be a much better without them and their stinky asphalt turds.
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay, since I'm being dugg down here, let's prove it.
The Toyota RAV4 EV gets 3 to 6 miles per KWH. This can be googled. This page, for instance, says 4 miles per KWH: http://baltimorechronicle.com/2005/083005Korthof.shtml
Overnight, off-peak electric rates as low as 3 cents per KWH are available. That's what I pay. Here's the rate card from my utility. My rate is D1.7: http://my.dteenergy.com/myAccount/pdfs/rates.pdf
Now do some math. 3 cents divided by 4 miles is less than one cent per mile. That's what it costs to drive on electricity. - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -11/+12Oh please. Did you really buy that ***** in that stupid movie? Where do you think hybrids came from?
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wow, why do people assume no progress has taken place in 30 years?
:
1) Batteries are getting cheaper all the time, just like all technology does. Here are some Chinese li-ion batteries that are 1/10 the cost of typical li-ions: http://everspring.net/product-battery.htm
These batteries are used in an imported EV expected to sell for low prices here in the USA next year.
2) Li-Ions aren't considered hazardous by the EPA. Lithium is stored in salt form in depleted batteries. Newer Li-ions also have very long lives. The Altairnanos are supposed to have a 250,000 mile lifetime. Compare this to used motor oil/coolant from gas autos. Those things ARE hazards.
3) The Phoenix and Tesla EVs both have 250 mile ranges. Better ranges are possible. Ten minute recharges have been demonstrated, too.
4) Just flat wrong. Electricity to drive EVs costs about 1 cent per mile. I drive an EV, I know.
5) Altairnano claims a 250,000 mile lifetime for their batteries. How much life do you want?
6) Cheap EVs are possible, and will come about when they are eventually mass produced. Example, look here, prices for Chinese EVs start at $6500: http://www.fevehicle.com/services.html
7) Ever hear of fuses or breakers? In my ev a contactor has to be held closed before any current can leave the battery box. Try stopping the flow of gasoline so easily. There is also no high voltage running into the passenger cabin, because ther is no reason to put HV there.
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The effect of cold on EV batteries is a red herring. I drive an EV (an old one) up here in Michigan, where it gets plenty cold.
Do you know what happens when I start driving? I pull about 200 amps from the batteries. 200 amps at 100 volts is about 20,000 watts.
Five minutes later, the batteries are toasty warm. - apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay, here's what you said:
"if you don't factor R&D, each EV-1 cost GM $45,000 in parts and labour to build."
That's a believable number, since that's about what the Phoenix EV is now selling for, for hand-built cars. Obviously, if GM put the car into full factory production, the cost would fall dramatically.
Here's what you said:
"...But as I previously stated, they weren't practical in cold weather."
Baloney. Here's where I know what I'm talking about. I drive an electric vehicle, and I live in Michigan, one of the coldest states there is. Here's what happens on a real cold day, assuming the car isn't plugged into the charger (which would keep the batteries warm.): When I begin driving, I'm pulling 100 to 250 amps, continuously, out of those batteries, at 100 volts. Do the math, that's about 20,000 watts. In five minutes or so, those batteries are toasty warm.
Here's what you said:
"In the case of the famous EV-1 waiting list, people backed out once they were informed of the limitations of the car along with the no buy out clause in the lease contract."
Well, of course, that's GMs version. I understand it was very tough to get on that list, so personally, I think those people knew what they they were signing up for. Also, the 'no buy out clause' in the contract was GM's own attempt to limit the appeal of the EV1, that hardly counts against the demand for the car! Again, 5,000 people in the face of a GM "anti-marketing" campaign is pretty astounding. - EndersGame, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Yeah, in case all of you guys didn't make it clear enough, there is no way a car would explode like it does in the movies. In fact almost every explosion you have seen in a movie isn't possible under the same circumstances in reality. Well *****, I might as well ruin it for you, most things that happen in movies aren't all that possible, thats kind of what makes movies exciting.
On a side note I did see a radiator tank explode once, it was very scary. I have set off many pipe bombs but that tank was the loudest explosion I have ever experienced. I was a cashier standing right by the window and the car was parked right in front of me, and once it happened I got this sensation that a car just ran into the store at full speed. Everybody else in the store thought the same thing.
I guess the thermostat failed and it was a rare occurrence because usually I would expect a hose to bust long before enough pressure could be built in the tank to cause it to bust. The hood was blown completely off the car and the guy standing right in front of the car experienced some very nasty burns. He must have been a crackhead because after he ran around the parking lot screaming for 5 minutes he acted like nothing had happened. - rslc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Agree. I really think Tesla is the Apple of the automotive industry.
Pushing forward with Revolution and consumer needs.
Now is the transition of a revolutionary in the automotive industry.
Those who do not follow the trend shall be left behind.
Like how iPod/iTunes left everyone else behind. - knowicki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Very Edumacating!
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Even if they don't explode, what EMT is going to stick his head in a wrecked vehicle when there's a chance he'll be electrocuted? At that voltage and amperage you'd have a hard time getting me near one. I know EMTs right now who are wary of wrecked hybrids. That said, people burn up in gasoline-powered cars all the time. We just had a family of four burn up on the highway a couple of weeks ago while the driver of the car that hit them was screaming about his broken nose instead of helping them out of the vehicle his SUV had crushed.
- satanatnmtedu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Cost? Sure. But, I would just say that car companies are conservative in that change means risk and risk is bad.
- dmadzak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2@rheaume
Considering there are millions of Republicans when you consider their supporters. I am assuming that one of them did something that was positive and newsworthy today.
So yes completly possible and I'm sure the author of the parent post appreciates you proving his point. - catbeller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1hybrids are what you want for the sticks. they work fine in the city as well.
- Octanum, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5With these batteries, there could be a higher chance of explosion, considering they haven't deemed it safe to be put inside of a car.
Manufacturers would've made the switch to lithium much earlier if it was safer. - rslc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What i think is needed is just a Serial Hybrid Car with
1) ~1/4 range of Tesla on charge-only (~50 miles, thus 1/4 the size and cost of battery)
2) ~400-800cc engine for longer range via continuous charging.
3) ~1/4 lighter overall weight (from smaller engine, smaller gas tank and no need for transmission gears, and use of alloys)
4) In-wheel motor drive for just 2 wheels (for efficiency, weight and cost-complexity balance)
plus better performance than the average 1600cc car.
Wait, isnt that just like the Volt??? (minus the still large 1000cc engine)
Even if the price is only 10K more now but 3 times the fuel economy plus sports car performance, why not??
I have no worries on battery safety:
a) metal layer protection (just like the metal fuel tank, a car is not like your PLASTIC laptop
b) plus electronics circuit protection system
shall do the job well.
I really just thought that Tesla is the Apple of the automotive industry. Pushing forward with Revolution and consumer needs. - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Gasoline Exploding: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7625450706499890889
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