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- johnpombrio, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12 Heh. Back when I started with HP in 1981, HP had a 170 lb hard drive about the size of a washing machine. The cost $22,000. Total megabytes, 20. I had to align the four heads by hand using a long allen wrench and a device that would tell me when I was centered over a servo track. It would fit in a rack but it took up about half of it.
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Your suggested substitution would require 80 drives, and 16 enclosures, with a total cost of about $10k. Would that even fit in 4U? Then you've got the power supplies, etc... The whole rig would almost certainly weigh _over_ 170 pounds, esp. since you've got so many more drives. Oh, and it'd consume more power (more drives, again)
Also, Sun's $32k also includes support, no? And don't forget the old adage "No one ever got fired for choosing [Sun]" -- when you present the sun solution and the homegrown solution to your boss, there's a damn good chance he's gonna pick Sun, even at 3x the price. - daldredge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Why?
It draws no more that 1,600 watts and weighs only 170lbs. If that causes your rack to crash/burn your data center needs help - acetv, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"On fire and crashing to the ground."
Oh, I see. Yeah, didn't know where you were going with that Hindenburg reference. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6$32K is quite cheap. My previous company already has a product that is 5U high, 48 250G drives, 4 opterons and 12 gigE ports. They charge about twice as much for it. Although the real value-add is that it is an integrate appliance and has replication and snapshot features.
Compare to EMC and NetApp a wad of well managed storage for under $75k is "cheap". - timdorr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Clearly he's never worked with a fully loaded Cisco 6500 ;)
- timdorr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Well, for my money I'd spend the extra not to have to deal with Solaris."
Have you worked with ZFS? Frankly, it *easily* makes up for any administrative hassles. Besides, this kind of thing I wouldn't make Internet facing anyways. Just export some iSCSI mounts over a private GigE net. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm guessing it uses 4 rails (top & bottom) so I don't think any serious rack would have trouble with it.
- Miniman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4*Fires up Bittorrent*
ITS GO TIME. - lalartu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It looks sweet but I don't want to try and pick it up.
- seekay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3There are ten fans visible behind the front screen. It's probably safe to say they've taken airflow into account.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't understand the reference to "what kind of rack would support it"?
Uh.. It's very light. It's only 4U and it only draws 1600w. That's nothing. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3heatpipes and heatsinks are popular for large disk arrays now.
- pelegri, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Each disk has 3 LEDs: online, offline, removable. The system automatically will deal with the failures and ZFS will make the whole thing transparent. When the failures reach your threshold you replace the failed units.
- steelmaverick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I would get that and just start downloading everthing in sight off of bittorent.
IN YOUR FACE MP/RI AA!!!!! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This is the kind of device you see in 10 years and say, "who would pay 30,000 for only 24TB of space and have it that big and clunky, I have that much space on my cellphone/iPod now!"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@seumas:
I think that he considers 170lbs to be "heavy" for rackmounted gear... 4 post server racks can support well over 1000lbs (closer to 2000lbs) for a floor mounted unit... - lbrtuk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"One of the best things about OS X Server is that there's *one* current version, period."
The best thing must be getting the sense of superiority over the non-Apple people who "just don't get it" and care about things like MacOS being one of the slowest server operating systems in existence. - Guspaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2That's some pretty insane data density. If cost is no object, let's do some math:
Standard 42U rack. That's 10 thumpers with 2U left over for, say, network or UPS. 10 thumpers have 480 drive bays. Each one can hold a standard 3.5" drive, which are currently available at up to 750GB.
So, 480 * 750 = 360 TB per rack.
We're not quite at a petabyte per rack, but 360 terabytes in a single rack certainly isn't too shabby! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@rektide:
Um, any standard 4 post server rack should support well over 1000lbs, and they are almost always bolted to the floor... Sun would include rails that would support the weight... - sansbury, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5You do realize that most of the people here were probably born sometime after you did that. At least you're not stalking high school girls on MySpace.
- emes001, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Where are you guys coming up with $32k?
There's 24TB of storage in this unit, and it was stated cost of ~$2.50/GB.
24TB * 1000GB/TB * 2.50/GB = $60,000. - daldredge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@NSResponder
What is so bad about having to manage Solaris? - heinousjay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I'm kinda tired of useless complaints cluttering the comment section. I guess we're both screwed, this being the internet and all. We'll both just have to get used to things we can't stand.
- garyfranz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Four words:
Twenty-Four Terabytes of Porn - chesterton, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'll take one. That should store everything I ever need.
- dprice, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Huh? That (the capricorn thing) is only 80 TB in an entire rack... A rack of Thumpers would give you a lot fewer things to wire up and yield 360TB....
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sounds like the perfect solution for that professor who needed 20TB of storage to save all of the Rubik's cube solutions or whatever he was going to do.
- akashra, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1No, the 24TB version is USD69,995. The 12TB version is 32,995.
- rbanffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe the Capricorn thing has less storage per rack, but it has more memory and processors: up to 40 GB of RAM and 40 CPUs (that are worth about 20, as they are VIA C3 units).
They are different beasts for different purposes. - NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Solaris still requires a full-time sysop, and managing Sun's patch hell is more trouble than it's worth, IMHO. One of the best things about OS X Server is that there's *one* current version, period.
-jcr - madcowbrit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Very cool - for 2006
- 10ksnooker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Once upon a time, disk drives that went 300 MBytes were the size of washing machines. Now you get 24 TB for 170 pounds, a four core processor to do the work, in a 5U rack space. When you consider that ZFS solves the idle data rot problem for huge data sets, you got to believe Solaris rocks.
Pretty good if you ask me.
Make one heck of a database server. I hear that the Tokyo Tech installation already uses multiple 4500s for data storage. - gharding, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Woops. That's 12Tb for $33k.
http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4500/ - AngryBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. I can't find anywhere that says its only $32k.
- gbelty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0you can pick up 10 24TB servers for $470K ... bargain
- sethmeisterg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You're not factoring in volume discounts. MY guess is that for 10, it would be around $300k
- NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Let's see... $32 grand, 4U, and 24TB. ~ $1300/TB
Xserve RAID is 3U, $13 grand, 7TB. ~ $1800/TB
Well, for my money I'd spend the extra not to have to deal with Solaris.
-jcr - vuke69, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Is it wrong that I got wood when I read about this?
- leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Heh, you must work for Sun.
If I have a failed drive in one of my servers, I'm sure as hell going to replace it. I'm not going to sit and wait for a few more drives to fail at once and knock out my whole RAID array, that's for sure. - rektide, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7$32k. Good ***** lord. $2.50 a gig. Thats 500 GB drives, dual dual core opterons, and 8x2GB of ram. But man oh man, you've got to sweat the form factor. 4U.
Thankfully ZFS is free, and actually in OpenSolaris now. Thats the filesystem that makes this whole server dance. I think I'll probably build my own datastore instead. You can get a five disk SATA enclosures for $100 if you look around. Unfortuantely I still have yet to see any enclosures that take advantage of SATA-II's ability to have multiple drives connected to a single bus, so you'd have a case packed with cables. 300GB seagates's are $100 with a 5 year warranty. The computer itself could be dirt cheap, I'd probably just go dual core, although a couple gigs of ram would cost something. Add in a pair of 70w 640 CFM "fans" (anything that big, that loud and that powerful is hardly a fan) and you've got something just stupid enough to maybe fly.
The other major downside with this system is that its top loading. How many rails and racks can support an 170 lb beast like this? - andrelix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I would not call this a disk array as it is a server with a lot of disc storage. It is impressive, but as pointed out, what kind of rack would it take to support it, much less allow it slide out to swap a drive or two. Now all I need is a new panel at home so I can plug one in (along with the $50k plus it will take to get one)...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I call that five.
- Pseudo98, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nope, it's definitely a desirable piece of kit.
Imagine what it will be like in a year when they use 1TB PR disks, Perpendicular Recording might even be up to 2TB by then who knows... 96TB! lol :) - richsharples, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I went to the launch today and got to touch one of these babies - they look pretty sturdy (as in you could probably get inside and survive a nuclear strike) !
- lalartu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Let's see... $32 grand, 4U, and 24TB. ~ $1300/TB
Xserve RAID is 3U, $13 grand, 7TB. ~ $1800/TB
Well, for my money I'd spend the extra not to have to deal with Solaris.
-jcr
---
Your pricing looks a bit off (all prices below are list)
X4500 ~ $2800TB @ 12TB in 4U
Apple Solution:
1 Xserve G5, 2 Xserve Raid ~$3200TB @ 14TB in 7U
Xserve G5 @ $17,049.00
16GB Ram, 3 74GB internal disks, 2 FC cards and Apple Care
Xserve Raid 14 X 500GB @ $13,998.00 X 2
$27,996 for 14 TB total w/apple care
~Equal Disk Count:
Xserve Raid 14 X 250GB @ $11,948.00 X 3
Xserve Raid 7 X 250GB @ $9,498.00 X 1
$45,342 for 12.25TB total w/apple care
(But you would need an extra Xserve G5 to connect them all) - bdmbdm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Problem fixed: http://www.capricorn-tech.com/tb80.html
- opusagogo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1cool they are using SATA, but if you look at the picture I think the drivers are not spaced far enough from each other and could get too hot. I don't see any airflow
- gharding, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I think it said the base price (for 4Tb) was $33k.
- leonbev, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Cool server, but I'm not sure about the design. Having to slide the server out of the rack every time a drive goes bad and needs replacing is going to get annoying real quickly with that many drives to worry about.
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