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150 Comments
- theblooms, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35People bitch when American auto manufacturers DON'T make alternative fuel vehicles, and now they bitch when they DO. Look, I love Toyota and Honda as much as the next guy (I drive a Prelude and my Dad had a Toyota truck that was all but indestructible) but this is a cool car. It looks good and the miles per gallon of gasoline will probably be the best on Earth. Certainly better that the current pretender-to-the-throne, the Prius. (I say pretender, because the oftentimes the Corolla bests the Prius in MPG for thousands less) Who else is making a plug-in vehicle that so many people have been asking for? Nobody. People have even been hacking their Priuses to do what this car does from the factory.
Just face it, this time GM bested Toyota. Don't complain. That is a good thing. This stiff competition from GM will drive even further development of the technology from other companies including Toyota and Honda. - McShaken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+23It's a start... If this catches on, we'll have other car makers pouring money into battery technologies to compete. Hopefully, we'll start seeing 50, 60, 70+ miles per charge before we know it.
- ck01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Does Driving An Electric Car Really Help The Environment?
From http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060831063922AAWkoys
Gas engines are notoriously inefficient. Running at peak efficency, a gas engine turns about 25% of gasoline's energy into torque. But not all that power gets to the road, because your engine spends time idling and braking. Also, the engine's efficiency drops when not operating at its peak horsepower rating. After all this, you are lucky to get 10% of the fuel's energy to the road. Also there are inefficiencies in the refining of gasoline (which takes large amounts of electricity!), the transportation of gasoline (by truck to your local gas station), and even some evaporation of the gasoline itself, directly into the atmosphere, over time. By contrast, an electric motor is over 90% efficient, and has an extremely wide powerband so nearly all of its energy gets to the road. The battery storage system in electric cars is about 88% efficient. And the power grid is 95% efficient in getting the energy from the powerplant to your car (much more efficient than sending fuel by truck.) Plus, fuel, including coal, burns much more efficiently in a big plant than it ever could in a little car. Plus, electric cars don't idle. No energy is used at stoplights. And electric cars recapture braking energy, too, using regenerative braking. So even when the powerplant burns dirty fuel, the amount of pollution is less than a gas car would create. And this picture is improving all the time, as clean energy sources are added to the grid. Electric cars also don't create used motor oil and coolant, both environmental hazards. EV batteries are a slight concern, but the EPA doesn't consider Li-Ion batteries an environmental hazard (this is the latest type of EV battery, which will be used in most future EVs.) All types of EV batteries are recyclable. But you don't have to be green to appreciate electric vehicles. A typical driver who spends between $150 - 200 on gasoline would only spend $10-20 in electricity for the same mileage. You'd better believe the oil companies are threatened by this. They know that gas prices will have to drop if EVs ever catch on. - yesukai, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30Yay, a hybrid car that doesn't look like crap. Now they just need to make sure it doesn't break down all the time.
- SgtBeavis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Let's be a little realistic. The Tesla is a fantastic car and a damn good step toward practicality, but it only a two seater, it cost more than $100,000, I think it takes over two hours to recharge, and it has almost no cargo capacity.
The Volt can be recharged by plugin but the presence of that 3 banger means you don't have to spend two hours waiting for it to recharge if you take it on a long trip. It is infinitely more practical than the Tesla. - sardion2000, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19The average amount of milage a person puts on the odometer per day is 30 miles.
- marix, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14lol you're a goon. not that I expect to see this car on the road ever but, an 07 cocept that can be put into mass production in 2 - 3 years using an non standard drive train sounds pretty nice to me.
- Zythryn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13It will increase your electric bill about one-tenth the amount you save on your gas bill.
Unless your provider has lower rates at night in which case it will be even less. - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16@jameswilson
It also takes energy to make gasoline from crude oil, assume that comes from coal too. So you made unclean energy (gasoline)with unclean energy (coal), then you burnt the gasoline. So isn't that a double dose of CO2? The net product is cleaner, because you don't go through an extra chemical (read that as energy loss step) - whatsagoodname, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@djlosh, It is a 4 seater according to the Scientific American article referenced in clp727's comment.
- Gowmars, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10You can pay for it now, but they aren't going to be delivered till Feb 2008.
- scutter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11I'd like to be the first to nominate Mississippi.
- Tourney3p0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10This would all be really interesting if GM didn't already have thousands of hybrid buses on the road. In the Puget Sound region alone, they estimate the GM buses are saving them 750 thousand gallons of gas per year.
But it's probably much easier to just not bother doing any reading of your own and let the diggs roll in. - maninblac1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10And when you give up an arm and a leg you'll have a nice handicap placard on your rear view mirror.
- waun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9There are a lot of good comments here, but there are also some which, um, leave something to be desired.
I'm concerned about the lack of knowledge people sometimes show - not just on the internet, but in general, about the whole electric vehicle issue.
At the finish line of the American Solar Challenge in 2003, my solar car team, after driving 3600 km, was approached by a group of people asking if we wanted to join their protest against GM's termination of the EV1 project. We declined, for a number of reasons, but chief among them was the lack of knowledge that the protesters had about electric vehicles, and the EV1 project.
In my opinion, the protesters, and documentaries such as "Who Killed The Electric Car?", though their cause is noble and worthy, never spent the time and effort to learn enough about the subject. These people are dangerous, because they are willing to blindly jump into a cause without fully understanding the situation. In other places, you might find the same type of people joining a terrorist organization because they feel emotionally for the cause, but haven't fully thought through what the organization is doing.
I don't hold much respect for someone who writes authoritative comments on an issue without being reasonably knowledgeable and informed on the issue. Nor should anybody respect them. They haven't walked a mile in GM's (or any other car maker's) proverbial shoes.
As an engineer, and since I have designed and built an emission-free vehicle (in the form of a solar powered race car that drove across the US and Australia), I would like to tell those less-informed not to underestimate the knowledge and effort required to construct a production-ready vehicle, let alone a production-ready _electric_ vehicle. That's not to say it can't be done, but that there are many hurdles, including what performance the public demands, gas companies, and bureaucracy, both at the government and company levels.
I would also like to note the following:
1. For the conspiracy theorists, the people who say that electric car technology has existed for many years, but has been covered up:
If you are willing to accept an electric car that is smaller than a Mini, takes a few hours to charge, accelerates slowly, and doesn't have much cargo capacity, then you're right. Electric car technology has been around for a long time. But how many people would buy that electric car? I wouldn't be the first to tell you that not many would pay money and use that as their primary vehicle. The solar car I worked on had a 6 kW motor; that translates to 8 horsepower, PEAK. We cruised at approximately 2.5 kW, or 3.4 horsepower. Do you think the average person would give up even their fuel sipping Toyota Yaris, at 106 horsepower, for something 13 times less powerful?
2. There are limits to battery technology. Cost, weight, volume, battery life, and energy capacity are all big problems. New technologies, such as lithium-ion, have helped, but the difference in the amount of energy stored in 1 liter of gasoline, versus the same volume of battery, is still sizable.
3. One lesson which all engineers should know, and which is useful even for others in the general world:
The production triangle consists of three things: Time, Money, and Quality.
You can only ever have two of them.
In this case, Quality is a definite must. Car makers wouldn't be able to sell a car that works only 95% of the time. Reliability needs to be much much higher. Roughly speaking, 95% reliability means that one out of every 20 times you start your car, something fails.
The average consumer is not willing to spend $100,000 on a car either. So Money also is a definite must here.
That leaves time: given a large amount of time, engineers can design a high-quality, cheap, electric vehicle. But until you've designed one yourself, I wouldn't go around saying that they're taking too long.
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Now, after all this is said and done, I wish a good low (or better yet, zero) emissions vehicle was out there that was cheap, reliable, and fit the average person's needs. That would solve a lot of problems. But the technology is not there yet, although we're getting closer.
There are many forces (gas companies anyone?) that would keep this technology from appearing until they've made as much profit as they can, but in my opinion, their efforts will not be able to keep such technology from appearing. - Eccles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9@ sofong 2010 isn't that far away. And according to the article, the biggest problem is finding a reliable supply of reliable batteries. No one in the world currently manufactures sufficient capacity in the quantities GM would want.
- johnnybluejeans, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Dude, put down the bong and calm down.
Fact is, companies like GM don't *have* to do anything green. They don't have to develop hybrids or EV vehicles. Why? Because we keep buying gas at whatever price it climbs to and because there is still gas to be used.
You think all the car companies are going to go 100% hybrid next year because we are having a mild winter? Wake up.
Do you think if they released this car tomorrow it would even put a dent in the environment? Maybe they would release 20,000 vehicles in the first model year... 20,000 to mix in with the other 1 billion gas powered vehicles worldwide. Yeah dude, that will save the planet. I can't believe they are making us wait 3 whole years! I better say goodbye to my loved ones! - apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You can charge your EV without creating any new pollution. It doesn't matter what powerplants burn.
The reason is because most powerplants can't shut off at night, when demand eases. So electricity goes to waste.
There is enough excess electricity to charge several million electric cars. In my opinion, it will be decades before that many EVs are on the road.
When new plants are built, they will be clean, or at least efficient plants. Even new designs for coal plants are up to 85% efficient. Plus EVs are way more efficient than gas cars anyway. Greater efficiency = more miles on less fuel = less pollution. - saifatlast, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10>>So...this article can be seen as SPAM...just an ad from another pathetic corporation trying to squeeze every last drop of blood out of a dying planet.
What the ***** do you think you're doing right now? Your computer uses power, which most likely pollutes. All that plastic around you (keyboard, monitor trim, etc.)? Yeah, those are petroleum products. You don't own a car, do you? What, you do? Well man, that pollutes too! I hope your house isn't wood-framed (like most modern houses, AFAIK) because that means they cut down some trees to make it. - grzelakc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is the perfect hybrid. This concept is far better than the Prius because the car is a defacto electric vehicle. I think the demand for it will be enormous if GM can step up to the challenge and actually push on with making the vehicle. Non-plugin hybrids are so lame by comparison. I really hope that GM starts producing this car in the next few years. It will be the first time I'll buy a non-Japanese made car. GM executives, are you listening?
- whatsagoodname, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@clp727 Yup, I've got a Cadillac CTS that is wonderful and very high quality. And a Ford Focus that has never had a problem. This isn't the 80s. Some US cars are competitive, especially with respect to quality.
- sw17ch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@JamesWilson
Correct me if I'm wrong... but in my Electro Magnetics course, we spent a lot of time talking about how coal many coal power plants have been able to reduce their emissions by some ridiculous number like 98.5% because they found a way to ionize the waste particles and collect them before the enter the atmosphere... my personal stance is that, with that technology, coal is a fantastic way to go. Safer than nukes (though I can't prove that), and much easier to come by in the states (we have a ridiculous supply of it here don't we?). - Tourney3p0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Where are your sources for any of this? Obviously you can't prove they're ugly, as that's a matter of opinion. Everything else is fair game though, so let's hear it.
Did you know that GM has had hybrid buses on the road for quite some time? There are hundreds, if not thousands of them on the road right now. Or how about the fact that Toyota and GM worked together on hydrogen fuel cell technology for many years. No? Didn't know that either?
All you can spout is what all this "sounds like" to you. Come on man.. at least make an _attempt_ at sounding informed. - Speed, on 10/12/2007, -21/+27"Now they just need to make sure it doesn't break down all the time."
Don't hold your breath, it IS still a Gm, after all. - bleutuna, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I expected to click the link and see some ugly ass Ford Focus-style car. Instead, I saw this badass looking monster of a machine - looks like a freakin' Cadillac monster-car.
Love it. Absolutley love it. - SEN5241, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6>> coal is a fantastic way to go.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of ecological fear mongers still working tirelessly to quash any new coal power plants. - orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"Chevy...yet another greedy, backward corporation that puts profit ahead of necessity."
Ya, like ALL corporations! Either you are trying way too hard to slam GM or you are incredibly naive. - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6What is with these new designs with low roofs and tiny windows. You can't see the road around you very well at all in those kinds of cars. Other than that, this is a really cool (and good) idea. I hope things like this start actually coming out to the market soon.
- ij00mini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Yea, it's definitely a four-seater, as evidenced by this picture (from the article):
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/chevy-volt-concept-1/121574/ - mohaine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Currently it takes GM 4-5 years to take a concept ICE car to production. Expecting a shorter time frame for an entirely new type of vehicle would be very unrealistic.
It takes a long to time design and build the plants required to mass produce any vehicle. - egrumling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The cash up front is the problem with all the hybrids, EVs and other cars. Americans are obsessed with the price of an object, not the total cost of ownership. Mostly because we never learned how to do our own budget.
- c6viperkiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Exactly. By concentrating on improving the efficiency of the higher polluters, GM is able to save more gas. I believe that one of GM's hybrid buses saves as much gas per year as 10 toyota priuses.
- Clp727, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I think it is in the interest of every American citizen that the American companies become competitive again. If the big three can get back into the game, it will be good for the American economy.
I own a Toyota Avalon and it's engine had to be rebuilt at 80,000 miles. At first I thought it was just a fluke because Toyota has such a good reputation. Then I Googled it and discovered that it was a common problem. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=UBZ&q=Toyota++engine+problems&btnG=Search
Now I believe it is a well kept secret!
I have owned 2 Camaros and have had no problems. Wrecked one, the other is still on the road, rust free. It had over 150 k miles on it when I got rid of it.
My wife owns a Lincoln LS V8 and it's quality is supreme!
Go Big 3!! - blistered, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5It cant be as bad as my monthly gasoline bill.
- apeweek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"...The estimate of $10-20 for electricity is wishful thinking"
No it's not. I drive an EV myself. I'm speaking from personal experience.
Here in Detroit the off-peak rate for electricity is only 3 cents per kwh, which puts my cost per mile at ONE HALF cent. By contrast, gasoline is 10 to 15 cents/mile.
Why should the rate for off-peak electricity go up anytime soon? There's enough wasted electricity overnight to charge several million cars before this becomes an issue.
As for oil prices, market demand drives this, like anything else. If demand falls, oil companies have to give back some of their record profits to lower prices. What version of vcapitalism did you study? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6We can then put all the power plants in undesirable states, countries, then just wire us the power for our "clean cars".
- dudeman420, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm glad to see GM finally deciding to take a step into the future with a hybrid/EV type vehicle, instead of lingering on the dinosaur that is internal combustion engines.
- Tourney3p0, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Statistically speaking, 100% of everything will eventually fall apart after the warranty expiration. The question is, how long after.
- AhmedB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I really dig its looks!!!!
- ispshadow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Fantastic, Count our family in the MOMENT this launches if it's not too expensive.
- whiledo, on 03/25/2009, -0/+4@m4v1s
Okay, so I replied to your earlier comment "Didn't GM build a plug in EV in the 90s that sold very well, only to be recalled by the manufacturer and crushed?" saying you should watch the movie. But then you post this which makes it sound like you watched the movie. So, DID you ever watch the movie all the way through?
If you had, you'd realize just how wrong you "the filmmakers insist that it is entirely GM's fault that there are no more plug in electric vehicles on the roads today". Watch the movie or click on the wikipedia link above and you'll see that the answer to "who killed the electric car?" was not "GM", but a lot of factors. GM (actually "car companies") were just one suspect in the gang. - sofong, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14It is Butt Ugly in my eyes, and to market 2010 why so long? One man's pleasure is another poison. Toyota is eating GM's lunch and by 2010 that will change to "has eaten". Never owned a Toyota yet. Have owned GMs and probably won't do that again. I now buy 1/2 my electricity from wind power and pay extra for it. Waiting for a plug in hybrid or all electric and hoping that my 'broke down raggedy Ford" makes it until then.
The dual fuel option is a good idea (enthanol and gas). The USA ethanol from corn story is sad. ADM and the trade embargos on foreign ethanol importation means that we will be dependent on oil for too many years to come. Which for now means American kids dying in the Mideast and cavity seasrches at the airport. Drop the trade barriers and we could be buying Brazil's excess alcohol a lot cheaper than we buy oil. - numba1xclusive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I can see it now:
"Who killed the Gas-Electric hybrid"
coming to Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, 2012 - frankinla, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"...and finally, you are going to need more than 1 110V outlet to charge in 6 hrs, since you can only pull about 1kW out of those outlets."
Huh? Quick question... do you happen to have a clue? With a 10 amp breaker, yeah... but with a 30 amp breaker, more like 3 kw, which, over 6 hrs, would give you 18 kw/hrs. granted, the user would need to verify the breaker on the outlet was a 30 amp, but if the outlet near there parking spot wasn't up to it, it's not like they're a bitch to swap out (just get an electrician to have a look at everything including the wiring if you do).
Please refrain from posting until AFTER you have completed your introductory electric shop class. - fmcivic16si, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Can't wait to see this come to market. I think it's better than the Hybrid cars. All electric for 40 miles? Great. Most of my driving is under that. Oil companies and prices can go to hell.... And it's a GM! great will finally buy a non all gasoline car!
- tmiller51, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Why aren't Toyota and Honda selling all electric cars if the demand is so great? I've never seen anyone spouting "Who Killed the Electric Car?" answer this one for me. I mean, Toyota and Honda are perfect in every way are they not? Surely they could develop the technology couldn't they?
- mergedwarrior, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It actually looks fairly badass.
Reminds me of the new Camaro Design. - m4v1s, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4For me it's not all about the environment, i drive about 5 miles to work, then about 30 to class, if i was sure that the car had the range to get me there and back i would buy one in a heartbeat.
Didn't GM build a plug in EV in the 90s that sold very well, only to be recalled by the manufacturer and crushed? - Ssullivan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've had problems with Toyota's and I'm American.
You sir sound like a massive fanboy. -
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