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124 Comments
- Unitarder, on 10/12/2007, -12/+60Hmm, if they include browser functionality, IMing, an email client and possibly voicemail, they'd probably give Linux a nice foothold into the homes of millions of unsuspecting Windows users. Maybe show them the alternative isn't as bad as it might seem and could actually be quite useful.
I'm defintely getting the Revolution, and I've pretty much told myself I'll eventually get a 360, but it seems that Sony might have a chance to turn me around if they keep putting more useful perks like this. - dbzer0, on 10/12/2007, -9/+47With this, the 100$ laptop and the new XGL technology, things are really looking up for Linux. We live in interesting times...
- leha, on 10/12/2007, -18/+49Not interesting times, we are just coming out of dark ages of slavery.
- LoneStar, on 10/12/2007, -7/+35Sony OS = SOS hehehe
- DrakeGTA, on 10/12/2007, -11/+38Has everyone forgot the PS 2 runs on a version of Linux? So why is this such big news? Sure it might have some build of Linux, but if it does it will be closed source and locked down with DRM.
- TenaciousMe, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26"and it has the bonus that every time one is sold sony loses $300+"
Every time you DONT buy one they lose $900. - MoeB, on 10/12/2007, -8/+31well if you actually think about it... it costs less than a mac mini core duo something or other. and it has more processing power! and a better gfx chip
- breakneckridge, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25Every console you ever bought was a computer, it just didn't have an operating system that you could use.
- MarcTheLad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20According to Kutaragi's EETimes Asia interview, the Cell was conceived from the ground up as a revolutionary computer processor, rather than as a processor for gaming devices. It was also designed to run multiple operating systems concurrently, in separate cells:
* The lowest-level Cell kernel, called Level 0, is a proprietary layer implemented mainly for security reasons, Kutaragi says -- Playstation game developers will no longer be able to directly control the hardware.
* A Level 1 OS will include device drivers and a real-time kernel and scheduler, and will provide all the APIs needed by real-time game developers, according to the interview.
* A Level 2 OS -- also called a guest OS layer -- might be Linux, a PC OS, or a Playstation OS, depending on how the user wishes to apply the device. Sony and its ISV (independent software vendor) and gaming content partners will sell guest OSes on interchangeable, removable hard drives pre-installed with task-based operating systems of various kinds. - Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21GNU General Public License states that to use Linux the source must be open if it is being distributed.
- chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Rootkit and DRM in an Open Source environment = no rootkits and no DRM.
Or as the quote was originally:
DRM + Source Code = No DRM - monolith, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Ah... I was looking for that excuse to want to buy one.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13That seems rather odd.... A company known for strict DRM, refusing to let people run their home mode programs (psp) and refusal to accept responsibility for screwing with millions of computers in the name of 'Dont copy our crappy music cds!'
is going to an open source platform - bascule, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15well to be paedantic Linux refers to the operating system kernel, so they couldn't close source that now could they?
Not if they want to avoid even more bad publicity and further anger the technically knowledgeable crowd. As for apps and the like that re closed source, so be it, their right, or wrong if you prefer :) - MarcTheLad, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Basically, Sony won't let you have low level access to hardware. The lowest level access you're allowed is through their "HAL" or system API that abstracts low-level system calls away. That's the way to go if you want a secure computing platform, since the lowest level kernel can act like some sort of hypervisor, preventing code from poking around in memory address spaces it shouldn't be poking.
- burke, on 10/12/2007, -15/+26Complete with Sony/Linux, the only distro to ship with overbearing DRM technology and multiple rootkits preinstalled...
- wormeyman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12wait if it ships with linux then it'd have to ship with the sourcecode (un obfuscated) which would mean that anyone could write device drivers?
- dharm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11they did it for ps2 (if you bought the linux pack, which never came out in NA), it was their first harddrive bundle, so it doesnt seem that farfetched that they would do this...
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 10/12/2007, -13/+21I, for one, long for the days when my gaming colsole was for gaming, and wasnt trying to be an all-purpose computer. Now they want to be like a computer, but not a computer.
The only way that it could be work is if they allowed 3rd parties to develop for these consoles for free. At which point they cannot offer the machine as a loss leader, since theres no gaurantee that they'll make any money in software sales. That will make consoles like this as expensive, if not moreso, as ordinary PCs
Creating a vibrant online gaming community is one thing, but trying to replace the PC for everything is just silly.
The whole point is moot for me, anyways. Until sony makes a public appology and admists that rootkits and DRM in general are wrong, I'll wont be buying anything from them.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play some Mario Bros 3. - geartype2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9You all are thinking too small when you see Linux on the PS3. Rootkit? Who cares. Nethack people, nethack.
[You can play it on the PSP now! So why not?] - crosswick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You are emotionally tieing together the Sony Rootkit Debacle (documented at http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/15/sony_drm_debacle_rou.html), which was and is a stupid *****-up by the thugs in the music biz, together with a completely different set of circumstances.
This is Ken Kutaragi's party, and he's got a $400 million chip that he wants the world to PLAY with.
The way I read the article at http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5941968566.html, and the interview with Ken Kutaragi at http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2005JUN/C/2005JUN_INT_WK2.HTM, this 'Layer 0' really is there only to prevent malicious network attacks.
I feel the real problem here is not whether we'll get enough access to the juicy bits of the Cell (because it will be hacked anyway); for me it's trying not to blow my own mind on what this combination of hardware, programmability and price point might actually do to a culture.
But then again, I'm Dutch :-) - TVarmy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9This thing will most likely be closed tighter than a safe suspended in concrete. There won't be a compiler, as the compiler can lead to only one thing: Home brews and backups.
And even if it does somehow gain this ability, the OS will probably somehow be crippled so it's bad for games, maybe denying access to the GPU.
I really want to be wrong, though. If this is a legitimate Linux setup and a games machine, then I might just buy one. $500 sounds like a lot less when it can do that much. - BitSlash, on 10/12/2007, -12/+19Soo... it's just a really expensive computer now?
- Xipher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Nice, great move for Sony, and great for Linux as well.
- ppinette, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10http://playstation2-linux.com/
Created and hosted by Sony Computer Entertainment.
Not only did they want people to develop Linux for the PS2, they did what they could to make it easier. - XxN3RDC0R3xX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"Because no one can write an OS better than Microsoft"?
Um.. people can and do. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The first console that figures out how to give homewbrew devs an outlet for their amazing talents will get a devote, cult like, following. Nintendo's cheap dev kits are a good start but there's some amazing things you could do with bootable Linux Live CD's (basically the OS gets installed to the HD, disks contain your app which auto-starts like any regular game would)
- dharm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7umm... you should go back and search what a rootkit is/does
lowlevel security which stops people from coding some ***** to ***** with the hardware is not a rootkit, nor is it a new idea... - NeoTechni, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The PS2 linux had no DRM
- lagnut, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7this will hopefully spark game development for Linux
- dharm, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14so using your same analogy... you wouldnt buy a xbox cause microsoft makes an operating system with intentional backdoors and whackload of vulnerabilities?
sony wasnt the first company to add software with rootkit *like* ability... and it wont be the last...
meh... welcome to the future, where gaming simply isnt gaming anymore... - LoneStar, on 10/12/2007, -18/+23I Love Linux! It's Everywhere!
- uzusan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6which is exactly what happened with the gp32.
if a big company like sony were to do this the effects would be much greater. - Parmon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8not exactly, being able to run linux and running off linux are two very different things.
so turns out you may be able to do some cool stuff with it but nothing interesting to the core ps3 - JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7although "the compiler!" isnt' a question... I'm in 142% agreement with you.
can I write teh homebrew?
How about the PSP Toolchain on the PS3?
Oh the Irony.
What Kernel? Can We (the users) upgrade it? Is it Open source? - Bluezdood, on 10/12/2007, -10/+14For $600 it better be able to do more than just play games.
- comrademikhail, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Actually, it's relatively cheap in comparison to a normal desktop computer of comparable processing power, besides the fact that no one has created a 7 cell processor for desktop computers.
- fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I find it odd that you think anyone in any way involved in the rootkit thing will be in any way involved with the PS3.
- craterburnsu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If it's running linux is falls Under the GPL.. so the OS itself's Source will HAVE to be open, now as for the programs running on them, that is a diffrent story, which is how they'll do it, THE GAMES wont run under the linux kernel, that way they don't have to let the linux itself have that code open, however beyond the already GPLed stuff they do , the in house stuff can stay close sourced.
- Zonkzor, on 10/12/2007, -14/+18Most likely the user will have no idea they're running Linux. Just like they don't know when their routers and Tivos run it. Linux will be running the show but a nice little Playstation like GUI will sit on top. But I could be wrong this is just what I'm predicting. Seeing KDE installed by default on a PS3 would be sexy.
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http://CollegeCheapskate.com - Lurk3r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Now no one can say linux is unencumbered with DRM. Well, this distro anyways.
- adrockp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I totally agree ,sony does make some great things,but i digg your comment.I still play my xbox1 .
- StringCheesian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Even with wine you'd still need some emulation to make up for the Cell not being x86 compatible.
- lukas88, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Chalk me up as another person who doesn't think the Linux operating system will give you the liberty to do the things you want. That way they cannot monopolize on online gaming (like xbox live). It will also give them a chance to monopolize on other sources of media like music and video. Any self respecting greedy corporation isn't going to allow people the freedom to use their devices the way they want when they can monopolize on it (harrmf, apple, harrmf).
However, if they do, they just won a little bit of my respect, which in my opinion, is priceless. (nobody shares this opinion, but hey, its the internet) - ChileanGoD, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Might be old news to you, but its making one interesting digg comments thread :).
- crosswick, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5from the Cell Wiki:
"Both PPE and SPEs are programmable in C/C using a common API provided by libraries. According to Sony, a compiler, debugger, IDE, performance analyzer, and Cell emulator should be made available soon. [15] IBM has developed a pseudo-filesystem for Linux coined "Spufs" that simplifies access to and use of the SPE resources."
You should check that wiki out. The decentralised nature of the SPE's and their power is simply awesome. I wouldn't get into the crippling issue too much with this much C playground to play with.
Or do you really think the Linux vendors Sony is working with will offer only a very limited, sandbox-style API to its homebrew developers? I find that very very hard to believe.
This might be a big moment in the history of computing. Let's try to see the benefits man! - astroid0, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I can't beleve everyone is making a big deal out of this. I know I'm not the only one to mention ithis, but did tivo allow you guys to write homebrew? Did they provide you a compiler? Didn't think so.
This has the potential to maybe be kinda interesting down the road (like any console), but right now it means squat. When the ps3 comes out, will the ps3 running linux improve the console or make it more desirable in some tangible way? Absolutely not. Well, unless your one of those l1nux ru73$!! , but you guys get worked up over everything.
In short: big deal. - Telegraph, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5i'll believe it when i see it.
- Soccrmastr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5This makes me go from hating the ps3, to not liking it. if they keep up more cool things like this I just might start to like it.
- brandizzle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I wonder if they're doing it for cost reasons, performance reasons, or because in addition to their old audience they're now expanding into a new one.
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