What is Digg?84 Comments
- cslawren, on 08/18/2008, -1/+113This is the kind of story I miss seeing on Digg.
- bratterscain, on 08/17/2008, -5/+82At least this API didn't forget about XP. It will be compatible.
- Ademan, on 08/17/2008, -0/+50So Khronos... WHERE THE ***** IS THE NEW OBJECT MODEL?!
In all fairness, OpenGL had a decent API before, and all the features were there... But I suppose that's kinda the issue, *all* of the features were there... Line stippling? please...
Anyways, at least a number of important extensions were promoted to core, and we can all cross our fingers really really tightly for 3.1 to have the object model that was promised for 3.0...
(Again looking on the bright side, at least I don't need to rewrite any of my existing code, but I really was looking forward to playing with the new API...) - dignation, on 08/18/2008, -0/+30A list of cards supporting OpenGL 3.0 anywhere?
- TheWindBlows, on 08/17/2008, -1/+28What are you talking about?
OpenGL is a very capable Graphics Library It's stood on par with Direct3D 10 graphically even though OpenGL was the older library.
OpenGL 3 doesn't yet have major improvements because of some serious misguidance between 2.1 and 3.0
( a planned library clean up and recode was ditched [for now] after months of work due to some compatibility issues that would come of it. )
Also no effort really went into OpenGL until like late 2006. - l0k0, on 08/18/2008, -0/+23The driver is available for 8 series and up, so I'm assuming 8, 9, and 200 series cards are all compatible.
- Myztry, on 08/18/2008, -3/+25Only about 80% of gamers.
http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html - backslashdigg, on 08/18/2008, -1/+22But comments, like the 1st poster's, make me skip most of the comment pages.
- ChileanGoD, on 08/18/2008, -3/+22HOLY *****! Tech news on Digg! Unbelievable!
- SpeedSteamBoat, on 08/18/2008, -5/+21Brand loyalty has to be by far the most obnoxious form of fanboyism.
- BedPost, on 08/18/2008, -1/+14Digg should fork off a new website, call it "DiggTech", and not allow any non-tech discussion on there. That way we can have the good Digg back, and not this 4chan *****.
- ferrariman60, on 08/18/2008, -0/+13Isn't brand loyalty the ultimate expression of fanboyism? I think that's the point, isn't it?
- directedition, on 08/18/2008, -2/+15And software will be making use of these features in..... how long? I'm still waiting for a game that really shows off OpenGL 2.0.
- joe90210, on 08/18/2008, -0/+13as you can see from recent news on this release, opengl programmers are less than pleased
http://blog.susheelspace.com/?p=270
http://www.intology.com/computers-internet/opengl- ... - TVarmy, on 08/18/2008, -2/+15So, how's it stack up to Direct X 10 and/or 9.0C?
- Trixrox, on 08/18/2008, -1/+11@ cslawren & backslashdigg
That is probably why google turned digg down ;) - Lunarbunny, on 08/18/2008, -2/+12I thought that was an important point to 3.0, and while I don't have any graphics programming experience, was pretty sure this would be one of the things to help push it into greater use.
I can't vouch for the validity of this, as I said I don't do graphics programming [yet]. - lostngone, on 08/18/2008, -0/+9Really Nvidia owns "Open"GL???
- vawksel, on 08/18/2008, -7/+16Agreed, I've been burned by ATI many times.
I don't give a ***** if ATI is 5 or 10% faster than Nvidia at whatever point in time, their software developers are no match for Nvidia's.
It's like ATI can build a race car with more horse power and possibly better fuel economy, but the handling sucks and the car just isn't very balanced so ultimately in the big picture you are a bit slower around the track. - Entroper, on 08/18/2008, -0/+8Well, it seems nVidia has been able to produce an OpenGL 3.0 implementation faster than the authors of ATi's open source drivers.
- boobsbr, on 08/18/2008, -7/+15when will there be open source drivers for linux?
- damentz, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7You do realize that the best open source drivers can do opengl 1.5 at best, and even then it is half as fast as the proprietary driver.
Opengl 2.x requires bettery memory management which is very immature at the moment. Intel is fixing it with GEM - a simpler memory manager to supercede the previously announced TTM memory manager.
TTM was very complex and harder to implement so Intel decided to fix this bottleneck immediately.
There is already a radeon-gem branch in progress if you were curious. It's open source, so who cares what vendor wrote the original source, even if the card is in direct/indirect competition with Intel. - Qumahlin, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7Wait...You mean to tell me Digg use to be Slashdot?
- chillypacman, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7In a bid to please engineers they've more and more isolated the game devs.
- TVarmy, on 08/18/2008, -0/+7Damn. Bad to hear. I was hoping that if it was getting better, we might start getting better cross-platform game support. I don't mind rebooting my Mac into Boot Camp, but the ability to play TF2 without restarting would be awesome.
And yes, I did try crossover. The shading was terrible, it looked like an Xbox game. Not worth the money or the time saved. - Gavagai80, on 08/18/2008, -1/+7According to RFC 1925, "With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead."
So, where are the those drivers? - Protoss, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5Toshiba makes graphics cards? If your laptop has a card that supports OpenGL 3, install the Nvidia driver.
- HonoredMule, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5But here's the problem:
If OpenGL is not the appropriate technology to compete against DirectX, what is? If Khronos won't fulfill that need for an open, competitive real-time rendering API, a new standard needs to be introduced so that, at the very least, Microsoft isn't granted exclusive control of the gaming market by default, in perpetuity.
We need this for the sake of the future of gaming (and other future uses of real-time rendering), for the sake of other operating systems, and for a chance at using and participating in publicly-accountable technology. - lostngone, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6Huh??? The standard was announced TWO DAYS AGO... What do you want geeezzz, besides Apple isn't a video card maker let the card manufactures sort it out and then Apple will release a Xcode library update.
- srg13, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6"DirectX has support for other hardward APIs, such as sound, game controllers, etc."
Given that most of DirectX has been depreciated since around version 8, OpenGL and OpenAL just about cover it really... - linuxpenguin, on 08/18/2008, -1/+6I wasn't aware that you could compare the two. . .
(DirectX is for games. . . and OpenGL isn't, technically - although it is often used in games, it's intended to be general-purpose and to be useful in other applications as well. I have a feeling this is why nVidia wants in - they're known for their GeForce series, but they're also known for their Quattro series which is not directed towards games but rather is geared toward more professional applications.) - YodaJones, on 08/18/2008, -0/+5"It's so hard to make". If frigging Nvidea would open source their drivers instead of making them proprietary there would be more eyeballs working on making them even better.
Nvidea thinks they have some secret sauce in their drivers that they have to keep secret. This is the same logic that Microsoft uses and those days are numbered.
BTW, OpenGL is a standard language and anyone can see it. - mrBitch, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5From the comments :
"the official letter from the group is worth reading.
The gist is that the changes wanted by the gaming community would kill most of the other participants (who can't use DirectX anyway).
Games want FAST. Renderfarms want ACCURATE. DirectX discards accuracy for the needs of gaming and Maya et al use software renderers to get accuracy on Windows.
The requirements demanded of them by the gamer entities also raised lots of problems that the gamers didn't care to answer in time or with the needs of others in mind (because MS just hack something that will work and if it works poorly, they'll blame the user demands)." - Squeeself, on 08/18/2008, -1/+5Not entirely true...OpenGL only does graphics. DirectX has support for other hardward APIs, such as sound, game controllers, etc. If you use an OpenGL solution for a game, you need to find other APIs for the features DX provides, such as OpenAL for sound, etc.
There are also some features that OpenGL provides that DX does not (afaik, the reverse isn't true due to GL extensions), but most of these are legacy features that are meaningless for most applications (like line stippling...) - Protoss, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4I don't see why an open source driver is required when the closed source drivers are amazing. ATI was forced to open-source their drivers because their drivers sucked and they appeased some of the community by releasing the source. Nvidia has treated their Linux drivers pretty well, and included most of the features of their Windows drivers in them too, which is a lot to say since most companies that put out Linux drivers put out severely crippled versions.
- Narishma, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4The only big games still using OpenGL are those who use id engines.
- estvir, on 08/18/2008, -2/+6badassninja, can you read? He was talking about OpenGL, he talking about DRIVERS.
D-R-I-V-E-R-S. - sirhomer, on 08/18/2008, -0/+4Hopefully ATI will follow suit soon too. In fact, OpenGL 3.1 is planned for early next year.
- linuxpenguin, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3@djchester: oops. . . well I was close. Never really paid much attention to them anyways - I just know they're around and are for more "professional" kind of stuff.
- HairyFotr, on 08/18/2008, -1/+4http://craigblonde.com/Pictures/launchingpig-e35.j ...
Now where are those drivers?! - l0k0, on 08/18/2008, -3/+6When pigs can fly.
- moduc, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3yes, when will we see software taking advantage of this? That's the most important point, because without it, you're not using anything. But Nvidia releasing it is definitely a milestone though. Any good comparison between OpenGL 3.0 and Microsoft's latest DirectX version?
- djchester, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3Nvidia Quadro.. Quattro are Audi cars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Quattro
- linuxpenguin, on 08/18/2008, -0/+3@Squeeself: OpenGL is great for graphics, and does what it does very well. Sure, DirectX is more of a "total package" solution and as such might be better for games. . . but some of its functionality has been cut out from release to release. DirectX *used to be* for sound, game controllers, MIDI controllers, video capture devices, and other things. . . but at least one or two of those has been cut out. Which leaves developers at least as screwed as those who used OpenGL - because OpenGL never had it in the first place, so they already found another library to cover that functionality.
It's also hard to say what "most" applications need - contrary to what many seem to believe, OpenGL is not specifically for games. It's used in many other fields of technology. DirectX isn't used much outside of games it seems - not because it can't handle drawing 3D "stuff", but because it doesn't have the "meaningless" features which might not be useful in games - whereas OpenGL is for any application of computer graphics. - darkphenox, on 08/18/2008, -2/+4from this picture it dose faces better but the whole models that are shown for Direct X 9 seem better and also in game image looks better on the DX 9
- mrBitch, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2@HonoredMule - all good points.
- KhaaL, on 08/18/2008, -0/+2That image is inaccurate as some of the OpenGL images are not taken in-game but are pre-rendered. Besides, that's OpenGL2.1 and not 3.0.
- l0k0, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1Yes, I'm aware OpenGL is open source. However, Nvidia clearly has no intention of releasing open source DRIVERS on any platform. Despite being a "*****", I'm rather certain boobsbr said drivers not the api.
- linuxpenguin, on 08/18/2008, -1/+2Engineers don't build software. . . if you're referring to the API changes, OpenGL is used in many fields - medical technology, engineering technology. . . gaming is but one piece of the puzzle.
- onesojourner, on 08/18/2008, -0/+1I think xbmc will use this fairly soon.
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