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115 Comments
- Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm not bothered about this, HDCP can kiss my arse, if they want to lower my res, then it's hello Bittorrent for me.
Anyway, if none of the graphics card makers support HDCP, then HDCP is going to fail on the computer, simple as that. - dhughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3 I'm not going to bow to pressure and buy any product with High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) support, that includes Intel for creating this HDCP crap, probably. The movie industry from the US doesn't control the planet, it's the other way around.
Having a movie industry from another country dictate the design of hardware on my computer is ridiculous!
I guess it's time to upgrade to a big LCD before all displays get HDCP. - aggies11, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Maybe this will actually work in reverse, on put pressure on removing hdcp.
I mean, if no hardware out there is compatible, and people are unwilling to upgrade to Vista, microsoft will be very unhappy, and may just decide to pull support.
Aggies - timko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Two quotes from the article...
"If you’ve just spent $1000 on a pair of Radeon X1900 XT graphics cards expecting to be able to playback HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies at 1920x1080 resolution in the future, you’ve just wasted your money."
"So if you just spent $1500 on a pair of 7800GTX 512MB GPUs expecting to be able to play 1920x1080 HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies in the future, you’ve just wasted your money."
To anyone who's done either (or both if you have a ton more money than sense) of the above and was hoping to have this HDCP malarky then all I can say is -> ouch! Best stick to gaming and benchmarking. - Chris_F, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"To anyone who's done either (or both if you have a ton more money than sense) of the above and was hoping to have this HDCP malarky then all I can say is -> ouch! Best stick to gaming and benchmarking."
I'm sure someone will hack it eventually, just like they did with DVDs. After HD-DVDs and Blue-ray disks come out it's only a matter of time before you'll be able to watch video at 1920x1080 using linux and a five year-old graphics card. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2HDCP support MUST be licensed, and GPL prevents Linux from shipping with any licensed software. So, no HD for Linux.
- Backlash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Rabbel Rabbel Rabbel!!!! Rabbel Rabbel!
- quentinp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Okay, really it's only Windows Media Player in Vista that's going to be affected right (and presumably any HDDVD or BluRay discs), so you'll be able to play stuff in 3rdParty Media Player? Sounds like this might just increase piracy. "What do you mean my computer won't play my copy of LOTR:Super Extended Edition HD? Well my buddy tells me he can get his movies for free from xyz.com, guess I'll check that out..stupid POS computers." (throws a fit at Wal*Mart and eventually gets his money back for the useless disc, never buys again..)
- halc5s, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3How is this a problem with Vista? If the hardware can't support HDCP then it won't matter what OS you run.
- SniperGX1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no HDCP is a good thing. Its time people realize that DRM will F you in the A time and time again.
- tzmguitarist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My humble contribution:
Firstly, aside from early-adopters who is going to buy into EITHER of these ludicrous technologies until one is crowned the victor? FYI, my local blockbuster STILL carries VHS on all new releases; coincidence? I think not. There will always be fanatics and enthusiasts; likewise there will always be people who forgot to keep up with the newest and greatest technologies and still cling to their 13" television and listen to their 8-track cassette player in their 1979 Pinto.
What I mean to say is that the "average consumer" of this technology is the one who will buy the set-top and owns a television that can support 1080i/p. DCP will only hinder those who are considered to be on the fringe and therefore a liability. Sorry, but I'm sitting out on this one until it plays out. - FallenSeraph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That article was more like a paragraph of "another reason to spend more money so you can get vista"
"I'm not upgrading :)"
I consider moving to Ubuntu an upgrade from XP. :D - Meow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm glad to see the video card manufacturers aren't supporting this scheme. HDCP and similar content 'protection' schemes treat us all like criminals and remove our right to fair use.
If only the TV manufacturers hadn't bought into it, we'd all be a lot better off. As DVD Jon said on his site, the reason for schemes like this isn't to combat piracy, but to lock the technology platform down. There'll be no new features, no innovation because everyone will have to answer to the HDCP keyholders, who, being backed by Hollywood will want a stable consistent platform upon which they can make money. - Chris_F, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2One of the reasons why I don't support Vista.
- bytefoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Those bastards.
- jschrab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's these kinds of problems that may lead to the failure (or at least veeerrrrryyyy sssllllooowww adoption) of HD video media for both formats.
I predict that those who have a stake in current DVD technology (player manufacturers, authoring/mastering/encoding software developers, etc.) will push what is possible with DVD video; I think Superbit encoded titles may be an example of this. After which the "good enough" effect sets in. And "good enough" may actually be "awfully good".
The movie industry has hinted that HD/Blue-Ray discs should be sold at a premium. That low DVD prices reflected a need to entice consumers away from VHS. I don't know why it hasn't occurred to this industry that HD/Blue-Ray discs won't be faced with the same situation; the price/value ratio will have to be better than DVD's to cause consumers to switch in mass numbers. Unless you have a big display ( >27 in. ), I have to wonder if a well mastered DVD may compare favorably to a HD/Blue-Ray disc. - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Yoshi39
You have no idea what you are talking about. Who is to blame for non-HDCP video cards? ATI and NVIDIA.
I say it again. Hi-def movies will not play on OSX or Linux either. - bytefoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's not just a Vista problem, it's the content providers who want HDCP. If you think any legal Linux distributor is going to come up with a version that breaks HDCP one way or the other out of the box, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
- puffarthur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Even if there is a hack, how many average people will bother to learn about it or implement it? This is going to be a serious problem for Sony and Toshiba who want widespread adoption of BD and HDDVD, for Microsoft because nobody in their right minds is going to buy the retail box version of Vista, hell I can't think of anyone who ISNT going to be ***** by this. ATI, NVidia, and the board manufacturers better release the hacks themselves if they want anyone to buy their cards in the future.
- PacoDG, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Windows 2000 forever!
- en3r0, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I'm not upgrading :)
___________
-en3r0
http://virtenu.com - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Not to support vista. But the inclusion of HDCP in vista is not a vista flaw.
Microsoft is simply insuring that vista will be able to play next-gen dvd formats.
If you have a beef with anything it should be either that blu-ray/hd-dvd requires HDCP for the disc to be played on a computer OR that vid card makers are not currently supporting next gen DVD formats.
Not wanting to upgrade is fine, but at least get your reasons straight so you don't sound dumb when you start talking about how you dont want vista because it supports technologies required for other tech.
Instead, imagine how much you would complain and not support vista if it did NOT include HDCP. The blu-ray/hd-dvd players come out and dont work on Vista because of lack of HDCP, and then all the digg/slashdot users at once start moaning about how MS is evil and wants you to upgrade again to include HDCP. - scheper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I'm not upgrading :)"
I'm not downgrading - Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Again, speak with your wallets. Keep your current TVs and keep buying DVDs. If the new media formats don't sell, they will eventually die off.
- UNL1M1T3D, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am in the same boat as some other people in here, in the way that I also feel that DVD's look good enough already. Personally I don't care about HD right now. I have a Sony 20" Flat Screen Trinitron running movies in progressive scan and it looks good enough for me. I am sure my opinion might change once I see HD or Blu-Ray in person, but until then I could give 1/3 of a ***** about them. Even if my opinion does change by then my opinion about having to rebuy every single one of my movies, just to get the high def version, and then rebuy it one year from that point if I want the special behind the scenes features is NOT something I am willing to do. On top of that movies right now are priced about $9.99 - $19.99, but when HD comes out you know they probably are going to charge at least $30 for a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray with pricing going as high as $45 if the MPAA gets its way. All those numbers are speculation, but I think it is a very fair representation of what we have seen in the past. I don't mind paying $9.99 for a movie, but if prices go any high I WILL go to piracy. I already don't care about the RIAA, and am beginning to dislike the movie industry. The only reason I really care about HD or Blu-Ray is for backing up data, because 4.7-8.5 gbs just doesn't cut it anymore. Even though this isn't really Micro$ofts fault, it is going to hurt Vista signifcantly. People are going to be very upset and the average person isn't going to think to mad at a graphics card (if they even know what one is) they are going to be mad at Vista unfairly. The only way I am going to get Vista is if the MSDN offers it for download or for a reduced fee. Other than that I am going to install Ubuntu when it comes in the mail in about 3 weeks.
- aussiehuw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Who cares. As ramble says, HDCP can kiss my ass.
- lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Let's see....neither Vista nor HDDVD nor BluRay are used by the majority or even a nice minority of the population.... Why should video card manufacturers have support in their cards for technology that's not going to be used in the near future anyway? Any serious gamer upgrades video cards around once a year anyway. I'm sure I'll upgrade my video card way before any of these technologies make it to mainstream. Maybe even twice. Also, I'm sorry but I don't support any buzzword that contains "content protection" as part of it's abreviation. I don't want "content protection" support in my video card anyway.
- Craig1394, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Obviously, the people to blame are the morons that forced HDCP on a world of people that did not want it nor need it.
- hax0r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1actually Microsoft could have won this if they had the balls to stand up to the MPAA and say NO to HDCP. Instead they went along with it, why? Probably because Microsoft is getting a huge kickback in the billions of dollars for supporting this. Why else would they go along with something that is bad for their own consumers? All Microsoft had to do was to say, "We will support Blue Ray and HD-DVD, but not the HDCP, and bypass it." If DVD-John can bypass decss, then don't you think Microsoft can bypass HDCP? They can, they just didn't want to bad enough. They don't care about their consumers, just their own pocketbooks.
- clickwir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good! HDCP is crap.
- Ruckus21, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A good example of greedy corporations controlling progress in order to protect their precious content. The attitude always seems to be "***** the consumer". Well "***** the new technology. If I have to wait 2-3 years for all of this to work itself out, so be it. The MPAA is shooting itself in the foot and taking everyone else down with it. Not me. ***** 'em all.
- SkeletaLlama, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Sounds to me like Vista, HDDVD and Bluray are all dead before they even leave the starting line. You can't piss people off like this and expect your product to sell. In some ways this is even worse than Sony's DRM fiasco. When will these companies learn? Well for me Sony remains blacklisted, HDDVD and Bluray remain blacklisted and Vista just got onto the list.
- replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@hobbit
I can play the H.264 codec on Windows as well. Without Quicktime. H.264 is not Apple tech (I know you did not say it was).
You are right about HDCP being added to current OSs.
If you want to play Blu-Ray/HD-DVDs on your Mac, follow these steps:
1.) Wait for Apple to update the OS to support HDCP. If they do not do this step, Blu-Ray/HD-DVD will never work.
2.) Buy a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player for your Mac.
3.) Buy a HDCP video card.
4.) Buy a HDCP Monitor.
My point is that Apple and Microsoft are equal when it comes to upgrades for HD. - Sithlrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nobody needs TV/Movies at 1080p unless they have a 6-10' wide screen. HD and Blue ray will die a slow death.
- PayneX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0So many seriously retarded comments here.
Definitely due to the inflamatory title of the article. - copperkidd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0HDCP isn't going to stop us. I'll be watching 1080p video on my Windows 2000 machines in no time.
- Matt2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm fine with them not supporting it. It's a rediculous technology and I see no reason to cow-tow to their asinine restrictions (while giving them MY money in the process). NO THANKS and two thumbs up to the video card manufacturers.
- ramsinks.com, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Thanks for that description deep. That just backs up the truth I spoke of.
I'm glad you had to google it to understand it. Then copy and paste.
Again, has nothing to do with SOFTWARE.
GG~ - Whitey04, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0HD blows. Blue-ray blows. Format war blows. Vista blows.
Who _really_ needs HD anyway? It would only really matter if you've got a multimedia PC connected to a big HD monitor. - ramsinks.com, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Only 1/3 of you even understand what HDCP is.
Without it, you cannot watch HD DVD's.
Vista has nothing to do with it... Nor has nothing to do with Windows.
This is something built into TV's. - hobbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0replica,
MacOSX cannot currently play HD-DVD or BluRay media because the mechanisms aren't shipping yet.
However, both media use the H.264 codec, which QuickTime has been able to read for almost a year now.
As far as HDCP on cards, and the corresponding hooks into the various OSs on the market ... it will probably happen over the next six months, just about the time when mechanisms to handle the new media are available for purchase.
However, I agree that the GPU manufacturers really need to be building HDCP support into their shipping products now in preparation for the mechanisms.
IMHO - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sithlrd wrote: Nobody needs TV/Movies at 1080p unless they have a 6-10' wide screen. HD and Blue ray will die a slow death.
You are partially correct as it all depends on viewing distance. For a 6 foot screen (assuming you mean diagonal) the optimal viewing distance for fully resolved 1920x1080 content based on visual acuity (further and you lose detail, closer and the image loses sharpness) is 9.4 feet. For a 10' diagonal screen the optimal viewing distance is 15.7'. By contrast if you are sitting at your desk and watching an HD movie on a 24" LCD the optimal 3.1 foot viewing distance seems perfectly reasonable. Obviously a huge screen is not a requirement.
While 1920x1080 may provide excessive resolution in many cases the alternative is not enough. Optimal viewing distance based on visual acuity for DVD on a 60" widescreen is over 20 feet.
For a viewing distance calculator and info on this subject visit: http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html - replica, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@Wilf_Brim
Aero/Glass is not affected by HDCP at all. You can use Vista with any DirectX 9 video card with no problem. Aero is NOT crippled with non-HDCP video cards/monitors.
The ONLY thing affected by HDCP is Blu-Ray/HD-DVD playback. - ohcoaster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this is crazy, when will the resolution be high enough for people? i bet in 7 years HD will be replaced by SUTAHD (super-ultra-turbo-awesome-high-def) at 20,000x5000p on a 64TB disk. and so on. for now i'm happy with dvd and if I want better quality i go to the theatre.
- g30ph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It might all be worth it if you can get a better look at Kate Beckinsale's ass in Underworld.
- obfuscatefrog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://www.behardware.com/articles/603-4/hdcp-the-graphic-card-and-monitor-nightmare.html
According to this article:
"All ATI and NVIDIA cards in stores since 2003 are HDCP compliant. It doesn´t mean that they are HDCP ready. It only means that the design kits have been developed with the possibility to add a Silicon Image or Texas Instrument chip to have HDCP compatibility. No manufacturer has done that yet. "
So blame the manafacturers not ATI and NVIDIA for this! - The42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I just bought a really nice new video card. *****. - Gizza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Its funny all these ppl blaming Microsoft and Vista. The simple fact is that Blu-ray and HDDVD will not play without HDCP regardless. All hardware and software will require whether it be your Blu-ray that HD player in your living room or your computer.
"im not upgrading" is not gonna help ya, coos these formats wont play on Win 2000/XP, MacOS or linux either coos none of them support HDCP.
All the MIAA has managed to do is once again increase piracy instead of decrease it coos ppl arent gonna put up wif this crap. Just like sony's rootkit, becuase of that im never gonna by a CD coos im afraid of wot crap ill get with it.
I feel the only way to go is piracy coos ironically its the only way u know wot ur getting. - hax0r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0HD-DVD and BLUE RAY are BOTH SCAMS!
WE DON'T NEED THEM!
Using XVID and standard 4.7gb DVD-R, we can already put 2 hours of 1080p HDTV content on existing disks!
I agree with all of the above who said that none of these products will sell, please tell everybody you know to boycott this insane technology. We, the consumers do NOT want HDCP. If it's part of the BLUE RAY and HD-DVD standards, then we don't want that either. Give us something without DRMa nd then we will buy it. All of this is a moot point. Everybody knows that DVD John is going to crack this thing wide open 2 weeks after it's out. Either everybody will switch to linux or at least run a new version of VLC player on Windows XP. Vista is a crock. Microsoft is cutting their own throats. - mtrutledge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You all have to know that by the time vista comes out, or shortly there after, ATI and NVIDIA will have a card that supports HDCP. Otherwise, this whole blue-ray/hd-dvd stuff is a failure anyway. DRM or not, if monitors already have HDCP and MS, (a major driving force in main stream technology), says it needs HDCP, then the graphics card manufacturers will answer the call.
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