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38 Comments
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12If I can plug it into the wall, I'll take it.
- rubicante, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10It is much cheaper and easier to clean pollution from a large single source than it is millions of mobile sources which are poorly maintained by their owners. Coal might not be that clean, but new coal-fired plants are better than old ones, and they are probably better than the number of gas powered cars it could replace. It is also more efficient, even with transmission losses, than the gas cars. Finally, if you want to make your power plant cleaner at some point in the future it is a bit easier than retrofitting a large number of cars.
http://www.electroauto.com/info/pollmyth.shtml [electroauto.com] - shaun944, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8ilyag, you're absolutely wrong IMO. Lots of people want cars that get noticed but don't cost the huge dollars of a supercar - look at cars that oversell their actual performance - The FJ cruiser, the H2/H3, Solstice, etc... If a car has a unique look and it has performance/functionality as well to offer customers, I'd wager it'd sell like hotcakes. Heck, just the name/function of the Prius alone nowadays is enough to create huge waiting lists when this thing comes out, regardless of what it looks like.
- rollem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Only the Prius looks any different than any other car on the market. The Ford escape hybrid, civic hybrid, accord and camry hybrids, the list goes on. The only interesting point is that the Prius is by far the best selling hybrid out there. Which is pretty strong evidence that your statement is dead wrong.
- antistupid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's a concept so what are the chances it will make it to production? In any case, you have to admit that the glass roof is sweet. If it comes standard in the next generation of Prius that will be awesome (is there any car that currently does have a glass roof standard?).
- looselips, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"..it just shifts the demand to a different market."
Do you realize how much cheaper you could drive if you plugged in instead? Electricity rates do not fluctuate as much as gasoline prices. Not to mention how many resources would not be wasted by the multi level production, transporting, and the dispensing of these dangerous and harmful fuels.
Take into account how a person could set up additional solar collectors on their roof and get an even cheaper rate by producing more fuel from the sun; let's see you try to make gasoline for free, or at least just for the cost of equipment.
rubicante had a very good point above about the pollution factor. The link [electroauto.com] was a good source and a very informative site. "..electricity generation process produces less than 100 pounds of pollutants for EVs compared to 3000 pounds.."
foxmajik
The health cost alone would be reason to change every car in the US from gasoline to electricity.
Just imagine how much cleaner the air would be when you are stuck in a traffic jam in rush hour.
Of course if you think the air is harmless perhaps you should go suck on a tailpipe, and inform us of your results. - mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Most of the cool design features you see in show cars never filters down into production cars, especially the contoured sci-fi style interiors and the oversized Indy style wheels with no tread on them. This disconnect between show cars and production cards has been going on forever and it's tiresome. It's not really innovative anymore. You see the same features year after year. It's just industry masturbation. Eventually car manufacturers have to decide to progress or not, but not tease us with this stuff.
- FunkyChicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Hmm... And I thought the Prius was ugly.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Why can't they just manufacture more Prius?
I don't know about everywhere else but in Oregon there's not enough to meet the demand and sometimes used Prius sell for more than new ones. - rubicante, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Consider the political cost of America's dependence on foreign oil.
Consider also that America sits on the largest coal reserves in the world, by far. - dankCIA, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I am all for hybrid cars - i think they are a great idea. But why do they insist on making some of them so bad looking ? I understand it's a concept and like all concepts it will be watered down before hitting the market but still. I am a bigger fan of hybrids like the civic that look just like the regular cars. I want to own a hybrid but i also want to own a normal looking car.
- mfearby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@tdp05: now that Honda Sports Hybrid concept looks damn nice. Now if looks like that coming off the production line, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, I'd think about buying one. Sadly, though, we all know how concepts get horribly toned-down when they go into production. Why can't we have some decent concepts in show rooms that look like the actual concept? What's the point of pouring bucket-loads of cash into making concepts if you trash the design and never sell it?
- rslc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Current Prius is not that fuel efficient.
Many non-hybrid ICE cars are more effiicient then Prius.
Hybrid != Clean and Fuel Efficient...until u see the MPG rating. - ninjathis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'm glad they are using the suicide doors
they look really good - shaun944, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I know the Porsche 911 Targa has one.
- mgross, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Aaak... It's not the prettiest...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7The general public (in America) will never buy a car that looks radically different from everything else on the road. Making all the car industry's hybrid vehicles look so incredibly distinctive has ensured that these vehicles will not gain broad public acceptance (was that their plan all along?). The first hybrid success story, the Prius, looks like a regular car for a reason -- that was the first time they actually tried to sell a hybrid to the public.
With concepts that look like this, you either love it or you hate it. Having this public image is terrible for business. If anything, people should be more-or-less indifferent to the external design of the vehicle so that they can concentrate more on features (it consumes a LOT less gasoline!) and reliability, and the only way to ensure this is to make a car that looks "normal". This ain't it. And if this is anything close to the final design, it will be a miserable failure. - mfearby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I like the idea of a Toyota Hybrid but if they could only make them look more like normal Toyotas with a dashboard actually in front of the driver, and seats that were comfortable, then I could actually consider paying for one with my own money. Honda have done a great job with their hybrids, making them look like normal Hondas, but the latest one is a bit off-putting since you can't see the car's own bonnet from anywhere inside the car itself, no matter how high up you sit. I wonder how many new Civic owners have nasty scratches/dints on the fronts of their cars? I've read that Toyota Australia are working towards making Camry Hybrids by 2011, so there's something to look forward to.
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Finally? What do you think they've been doing for the last century? We're not cruising around in 40hp flatheads with wagon spring suspension anymore.
- fantasticjon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1unfortunately foxmajic is correct. If you use 10 gallons less per week because you are driving a prius, that does not mean 10 less gallons are being burned in the world. You are just driving down the cost of oil for other users.
The only way to make people use less oil is to have higher prices. lowering ones individual use is not going to lessen how much oil is used in the world, it will only push down the cost.
A hate to say it, but if your goal is to lower the amount of fuel used in the world, the only answer is to tax it heavily. Of course this would be wildly unpopular and will not happen in America for a long time.
That said, it is still noble and good to use resources wisely, even if others are being wasteful with the world's resources. - cawpin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ilyag - The Pontiac G6 has an available multi-paned sunroof that is damn near the whole roof. Also, people WILL buy cars that look radically different, even if they are butt ugly. See the Pontiac Aztec (Ass-Tec), the Prius and this thing. It is even more so if it says Toyota on the side. Lastly, I remind everyone that Toyota has had the highest number of recalls and highest number of recalled vehicles the last 3 years running.
- LongRifle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A modern IC engine can be over 60% thermally efficient. I'm not sure that thermal plants make it over 70% yet, and then there are losses at the generation, transmission, chemical conversion (charging) and finally mechanical steps. Net result has always been to make electric storage vehicles worse as far as emissions/unit distance than conventional IC powered vehicles. Where they have been mandated the purpose has always been to move the emissions, not reduce them (California's LA basin, for example).
Similar problems are attached to the current crop of hybrids: power comes from an (efficient) IC engine so net emissions per distance are the same at steady speeds, but of course in stop-and-go traffic the engine does not idle when no air conditioning/heating demands are made. The result in that mode is reduced net emissions, but only in that mode. Over a long-haul at steady speeds the additional weight of batteries and electric motor put a hybrid at a disadvantage, emissions-wise.
So called plug-in hybrids are the worst solution: they suffer all the losses of the storage-electrics, plus the weight of an IC engine and fuel storage; conversely, they are no better than a hybrid but with heavier batteries than required for pure hybrid use.
Also, no electric-based vehicle has yet been made that functions well in northern climes (heat and lighting requirements place great distance disadvantages on them) such as large parts of the States and all of Canada. The best bet today is still small diesel power. - rubicante, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@LongRifle:
IC Engines are about 20% efficient.
REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal-combustion_engine#Engine_Efficiency
Coal power plants are 36–38% efficient (subcritical), low to mid 40% (subcritical), and 48% (supercritical).
REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_plant
Of course there are losses in getting energy from the power plant to moving a vehicle. Also, speaking strictly of California, we get more electricity from gas, nuclear, and hydroelectric than coal, and the pro's and con's of each could be debated as well. - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Wow...is that...ugly. I guess you don't buy a Toyota if you're looking for something stylish anyway. The "hybrid" marketing angle is kind of a dead issue now because pretty much everyone has one and selling them cheaper with better specs. They're not going to be able to make a mint selling a budget spec car at premium prices by slapping hybrid on the label anymore.
- rollem, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Sorry rubicante, I buried you by accident. Somebody digg rubicante's comment because it is on the mark. Bury me because I'm an ass!
- Sargasso_C, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hybrids are an American phenomenon. The cars are ugly because they are not selling style or substance, only abstinance from those things we enjoy most about cars. The rated mileages are phoney, according to numerous independant sources, so again, the illusion is all that matters. It is purely marketing. Leave the regular car in the garage one day a week, plant a tree, buy locally made produce and recycle your cardboard, if you want to do it right - but get over the idea that buying a hideous car will make the world a nicer place.
- rover_nook, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Is it just me, or does this thing remind you of an old I-mac?
Not to say that I'm all for the major motor companies starting to (finally) innovate and put some capital into their next gen, consumer cars. A good step, yeah, will it ever see the light of day...maybe. - koreth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Coal? Not my favorite thing to breathe. Beijing's coal-laden air makes the worst L.A. smog look like the empty vacuum of outer space by comparison. I realize China's coal plants aren't using the latest cleanest technologies, but still, yuck -- the relatively crystal-clear air is one of the nicest things about arriving back in the US after being over there.
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Because their early jump into the market advantage is long gone. There is across the board competition so they have to make a more attractive vehicle at a better price. It doesn't even compete with their own line very well as you can get a a Camry for a several thousand less.
- mike3k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I like how the Prius looks. Driving it feels like driving something out of the Jetsons. The only drawback is the large blindspots caused by the shape of the back and the thick windshield panels in the front.
- ddb123, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Minority Report
- tdp05, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I liked the look of the Honda one better. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/03/06/geneva-motor-show-honda-small-hybrid-sports-concept-revealed/
Looks like a much better looking Insight. I'd drive it over that fugly Toyota. Don't understand why toyota can't make a Prius that looks good, I'm okay with taking some chances. but christ the Prius is ugly. Reminds me of a smaller Pontiac Aztek, bleh. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2On the other hand, creating hybrid or electric vehicles doesn't eliminate the demand for non-renewable resources, it just shifts the demand to a different market.
- badnewsblair, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2I didn't think there existed a car that was uglier than the Prius (maybe the Scion xB), but this one takes the cake.
- akshay626, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1@ilyag
I see the Prius everywhere now. - onimusha115, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Why do auto makers have to make hybrid cars look horrible? There is no need to make it look like its from the future. Make hybrids look like normal cars and people will buy them. I would never drive this thing just because I would feel like an asshat driving it, if I wanted to get laughed at I could just buy a moped.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+1ZOMGWTF human-animal hybridz OH NOEZ!1!!1! > .
- liquidboy2006, on 10/12/2007, -14/+4toyota hybrids don't do it for me, just the name itselft doesn't lend itself to future naming conventions. The marketing team that came up with that name should be fired!
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