What is Digg?153 Comments
- trghpy, on 10/11/2007, -7/+53It's still a more efficient form of transportation, plus its pointing the industry in the right direction.
Gas engines use something like 20-30% potential power out of gas/combustibles.
Industrial generators can pull 40-50% of the potential energy. You loose another 4-5% of the potential energy in the batteries and motor and controllers, but whoop-die-do it still more efficient.
Plus, With the tax rebates and incentives that are rolling out, any motivated individual can install a number of solar panels in order to green up their energy consumption.
Plus many power companies offer people the ability to use a greener grade of power. you pay more but you're donating into the Green fund which helps spur off an industry of cheep clean power. - Rickler, on 10/11/2007, -9/+46Didn't sound very silent to me; your argument is mute.
- Murdats, on 10/11/2007, -3/+39exactly, I prefer a tank of highly flammable petrol between my legs.
- an0nymous, on 10/11/2007, -15/+42So... it's an almost totally silent motorcycle?
Anyone else see a problem here?
Obviously the only solution is to paint it black and put a lucas electric headlight on it. - vertinox, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23It says it a prototype and not a production model.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21"Most of the Power in the US is clean, Hydro, solar, Wind, Nuclear in some places, hell the little town I'm from is using methane from the county dump to create part of our energy."
False.
Most of our power comes from Coal and Oil plants. - taintedzodiac, on 10/11/2007, -3/+22@koabel:
I think you missed the pun. - PhireN, on 10/11/2007, -7/+24Looking at the placement of those batteries, I hope they are not Li-Ion batteries. They become unstable if they are punctured by small rock or the bike crashes. I'm sure the resulting explosion will cancel out any CO2 you saved by not burning fuel (think exploding laptop batteries, times by a thousand).
- krinn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13@happyscrappy:
It has 28 of those batteries. 28 * 288Wh = 8064 Wh - sigintop, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12"mean, what's the fun of a motorcycle if you can't make it sound like a motorcycle?"
Because RIDING a motorcycle is probably the most enjoyable aspect of a motorcycle. If they made an electric motorcycle that performed the same as its gasoline counterpart but was dead silent, I'd probably come down to price. Even then I'd put in a little more for something that runs green. - Kericr, on 10/11/2007, -4/+14Speaking in the aspect of comparing it to gas-powered bikes, this thing is wholly unremarkable. First, it's performance numbers just aren't that good. Zero to 60 in "around 3 seconds" doesn't tell me much. My Ninja 500 can do it in "around 3 seconds" too, and comparing my bike to an R1 is like comparing a beetle to a Porsche. Second, to call a bike that has a top-speed of 100MPH a 'superbike' is blasphemous, this bike would get smoked in top speed by most Harleys. Those sure as ***** aren't superbikes. Hell, a Ninja 250 with a light enough rider can get to 100MPH. Even worse, this bike is putting up those kind of performance numbers on slicks, and it's 100 mile range is on "cruise" (read not top speed, and not wringing the engine out).
Don't get me wrong, this is still kinda cool, but after reading the article and then watching the associated video, it looks like the writer took some liberties and sensationalized this quite a bit. - NikoKun, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13dang I want one... 100 miles a charge is easilly all I'd need to make it a week... lol
Only downside is they should really put some kind of case over those batters... looks janky without some kind of covering... XD - kenvsryu, on 10/11/2007, -8/+17I love shoeboxes.
- DiamondIce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9@irondonut (#6987126)
I like how you conveniently left out all the steps that it takes to collect and refine crude oil into gasoline. Cause y'know, just cause an argument is baseless doesn't mean you can't fudge the facts a bit to look half-way legitimate. - gonpost, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13Oi don't digg him down, he's completely correct. Just imagine this video on a larger scale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU It's (one of) the reasons that toyota decided not to use Li-ion batteries in cars.
- xVebx, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13If they could develop and advance this technology, I'd say it could very well replace the engine.
- TheAkolyte, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Highly flammable gas packed into a metal shell. Yeah, thats not dangerous at all. Ive got an idea, lets put it in a pipe, and add a fuse for added safety!
- mikelieman, on 10/11/2007, -5/+13For less than the cost of the Iraq War so far, we could have built a constellation of Solar Power satellites, and beam the energy to groundstations, so we'd have all the electricity we'd ever need, and not have to worry about those pesky emissions, and wasting tupperware feedstock, etc, etc...
- apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8To answer some of the points raised here:
-Electric vehicles are way cleaner even if dirty fuel is burned at powerplants (because of the efficiency of electric vehicles)
here's a collection of well-to-wheel studies that shows this (pdf): http://sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions%5B9%5D.pdf
-Electric motors are indeed close to 95% efficient (also, battery storage is 88-95% efficient.) Link:
http://www.psnh.com/Business/SmallBusiness/Motor.asp
Chart showing that 25+ horsepower electric motors have efficiencies between 90 and 96%
-Transmission of power is about 95% efficient. Link:
Paper: 'Economic and engineering constraints on the restructuring of the electric power industry'
http://public.lanl.gov/u106527/ELISIMS/Econ_paper.pdf
(points out that the industry standard is 95% efficiency)
-Coal and oil only make about half of our electric power. Link:
http://www.eei.org/industry_issues/industry_overview_and_statistics/industry_statistics/index.htm
Coal = about 50%, oil 3%
-Li-Ion batteries are becoming much cheaper - EV-capable Li-Ions ( LiFePO4) can be purchased from China for lead-acid prices. Link:
http://everspring.net/product-battery.htm - Rickler, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Has anyone ever seen a lithium ion battery "explode"? I've seen them ignite from a drill press and a dell laptop sony battery but never have I seen one 'explode'. Besides this bike probably uses li-ion batteries with lithiated metal phosphate cathodes that don’t explode and even have a longer shelf life.
- nerditup, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Well, Lithium batteries have been available for a while (cell phones, iPods), but the technology is still very expensive to produce right now. If they start getting mass produced for larger products such as this bike then, hopefully, the prices go down.
- Frost9999, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7@irondonut - how's that job at Shell workin' out for ya?
- emjaymj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6How do nuclear power plants "balance out" with combustion engines? Yes there may be some indirect emissions associated with it, but it is by far better for the environment. Even with carbon-burning power plants (natural gas/coal) the efficiency at that big a scale is vastly improved over single gasoline engines.
Of course nothing is going to be completely emission-free, but that's not the point. It's foolish to sit on our hands and dismiss any improvements just because they're still not *perfect* for the environment. We may NEVER be emission-free, so we need to focus on POSITIVE changes in the meantime. - allaboutdatiki, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Wicked Cool!
The answer is coming from the builders faster than it is coming from the manufacturers. There's huge potential in the motorsports (note that's *motor*sports not *engine*sports) industry to make this happen on a grand scale. We don't have to wait for Harley, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki to do this. - an0nymous, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5George's point was that it's not the earth that's endangered, its humanity and the biosphere.
Not less serious, just more descriptive rhetoric.
Did you really not get that? Go listen to it again. - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Pay no attention to the scary video. These are not the same type of Li-Ion batteries used in cellphones and laptops. They are non-explosive.
see this page: http://www.iloveebikes.com/batteries.html
There is a picture there of a LiFePO4 battery being drilled into with no negative effects whatsoever. These are safe batteries. - UrbanVoyeur, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9It's not about how ungainly this bike looks, the duct tape or the unprotected Li-Ion batteries.
The point is a hobbyist and bike customizer has done an terrific proof of concept. The major manufacturers have their heads in the sand when it comes to alternatives to internal combustion.
Sure it has limited range and top seed. But it is using off the shelf parts and it *does* plug into a standard household outlet.
With a little volume incentive, you could get a smaller, more powerful motor, customized, higher capacity batteries with better protection & saftey features and a more adnvanced power management system.
This conversion costs only $8k parts. If you start with a bike with no IC motor or drive train, the cost is LESS that the parts it replaces, and this is off the shelf.
This has huge potential. I hope some major manufacturer recognizes it. With a little work, the prototyper could probably make a a decent business just selling similar units it to US special forces units who use ultraquiet off road bikes - charge via solar during the day, ride & scout at night. Extremely low maintenance. - rollem, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@threethirty: "Most of the power created in the US is clean"?!? We get the majority of our electricty from coal, which isthe dirtiest form of power available. It is more efficient than individual internal cumbustion engines, which is why electric cars are more efficient, but most US energy is far from "clean." A moderate percent is nuclear, which is emmission-free but not pollution free, some is hydroelectric, which is clean but high impact on local rivers, and only a very small fraction is wind or solar.
- chrisc262, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5i think most people forget the fact that an electric motor is 80-90% efficient as compared to around 30% for an IC engine
so even if you burn twice as much fuel to make the electricity and deliver it, it is still a savings
also, power plants use many different fuels, some are even renewable - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4These are not the same batteries used in cellphones and laptops. LiFePO4 batteries are non-explosive.
- mrx23, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5to all those who are bashing on electric efficiency, read this!
taken from tesla roadster's white paper: http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/twentyfirstcenturycar.pdf
well to wheel efficiency of electric vehicle: 1.145km/MJ (kilometers per mega joule)
well to wheel efficiency of gas vehicle: 0.556km/MJ (of a Honda Prius, one of the most efficient cars that run on gas)
well to wheel efficiency of hydrogen vehicle: 0.348km/MJ (fuel cell, the technology is a joke, no wonder politicians are backing it up...)
well means a point where the fuel is under ground, being extracted.
as you can see, the electric system is twice as efficient as hybrid cars today. and that is not the highest value. the electric car used in the test was tesla roadster. its possible to make a milder, more efficient electric car. for all you ***** who are going to argue with this, read the whitepaper link above before you talk! - sigintop, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3It's a prototype from a small "company" (more like hobbyist). I'm always surprise that people expect the final product ready for mass production the moment they hear about it. Imagine if everyone had that attitude about aviation.
- Frost9999, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@mike - People said the same thing about steam engines whenever one exploded. And you might notice everyone carries a phone these days and how many have you seen explode? Not many.
- mrx23, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3properly made li-ion batteries do not explode all by themselves. if you over charge them they can go into thermal runaway, or a fire, but they do not explode like a bomb. all of the li-ion chargers do have sharp voltage cutoff after the battery is full. the ***** that happened with laptops was most likely due to bad charger or very badly made batteries. for the love of god, please stop posting dumb statements.
- apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Of course they are safe, they only have to be as safe as gasoline, anyway. Not all li-ion batteries are the same. These are not what's in your laptop or cellphone. LiFePO4 batteries are non-explosive. See this page: http://www.iloveebikes.com/batteries.html
Scroll down for a picture of a battery being drilled into with no negative effects. - DarkDragon, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6As long as the Lithium Batteries aren't made by Sony ;-]
- korneelwever, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4It's clearly a study, as told in the little video, the gas tank is useless, so, put 1+1 and replace the tank by batteries, wont fit, but will take some of the bottom.
The rear cog is ugly big, they should fit another motor and replace both cogs (motor/rear) . - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3This is not a big issue. Electric vehicles will be very slow to catch on, and most vehicles charge at night, on off-peak electricity. There's room for millions of them right now, with no change to the power grid.
Newest designs for powerplants are up to 85% efficient, so when new plants are needed, the grid gets more and more efficient as it expands. - mrx23, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Nope, not true. If you charge your cars at night, between 12am and 6am, at the time of low demand, that will only help your power plant. It would keep it from idling and wasting energy.
- Rickler, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I'd trade my bike in any day for that one.
- warriorscot, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3In a production model they would probably be able to shave the space of other components down but its a prototype and just a normal bike but converted to electric, if you look at explicitly electric bikes they arent any bigger the motors are located inside the wheel like in most of the better electric vehicles so the entire engine and fuel space can be used for batteries.
Even with a short range the effiency makes it worth it they significantly reduce the emmisions, efficiency in an electric vehicle is very high a IC vehicle efficiency is very low someone above mentioned 20-30% assuming they were talking about an IC in a car when you work out what actually gets from the gas tank to the road its much lower than that, and your initial energy can come from allot of sources with various energy efficiencies from a clean high efficiency source to lower dirty ones which are becoming fewer and fewer these days. - hiPpymIck, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3theres this one
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/automotive_news/4216271.html
..tho this time its too quiet - TheAkolyte, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I think the cog is kinda cool looking.
- akkuma, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4You can run from a fire, but last time I checked you aren't going to get much of a chance to run from an explosion when not even involved.
- apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Newest designs for EV batteries are fast charging. The batteries in these vehicles can charge in just 10 minutes:
http://phoenixmotorcars.com
http://zapworld.com/ZAPWorld.aspx?id=4560 - Wolfboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3(hit the wrong reply button.)
- DiamondIce, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@irondonut (#6987959)
First: You were the one throwing around steps, not I.
Second: For every step that you add on to electricity production you must also add onto gasoline (over and above the steps needed to refine it), since the refinement of gasoline uses HUGE amounts of electricity.
So essentially the process is this (very simplified because I don't feel like typing today)
Electricity:
Electricity is consumed to collect fuel
Fuel is burned to transport fuel
Fuel is consumed to produce electricity
Electricity is sent to consumers
Consumers use electricity to power cars
Gas:
Fuel is consumed to produce electricity
Electricity is sent to consumers
Electricity is consumed to collect Oil
Fuel is used to transport Oil to refineries
Electricity is used to refine oil from crude to commercial grade
Fuel is burned to transport commercial grade oil to other refineries
Electricity is used to further refine oil into consumer grade oil and gasoline
Fuel is burned to transport gasoline to fuel stations
Fuel is burned to drive to fuel stations to fuel up your car so you can burn more fuel. - apeweek, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Electric vehicles are way cleaner even if dirty fuel is burned at powerplants (because of the efficiency of electric vehicles)
here's a collection of well-to-wheel studies that shows this (pdf): http://sherryboschert.com/Downloads/Emissions%5B9%5D.pdf - Wolfboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3 >>>well to wheel efficiency of gas vehicle: 0.556km/MJ (of a Honda Prius, one of the most efficient cars that run on gas)
Toyota makes the Prius, not Honda. - SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@irondonut
It doesn't matter if one process has 1001 stages and the other has 2, if you lose more power in the 2 stages of one process than your doe in the 1001 of the other process it's *still less efficient*. Didn't anyone teach you math at school? -
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