What is Digg?Sponsored by Sony Pictures
Adam Lambert sings the 2012 theme song, “Time for Miracles” view!
whowillsurvive2012.com - Watch the Adam Lambert music video for the 2012 theme song. See 2012, in theaters Nov 13
124 Comments
- PATSCRU, on 10/11/2007, -2/+84my cpu is my ppu.
- CraigCarlyle, on 10/11/2007, -14/+95I don't know which I find more hilarious, the fact that you bought a PPU or the fact that you bought a Dell XPS.
- opeth55, on 10/11/2007, -7/+78I didn't need him to tell me that. I have had one since it shipped in my dell xps, and all I have to show for it is being down a couple hundred bucks and a really crappy demo/game cellfactor: revolution. Is this the virtual boy of PPU's ?
- Junkyarddawg, on 10/11/2007, -6/+45Carmack is only saying what everyone already know to be true.
- KiTchMe, on 10/11/2007, -1/+38Did you also buy KillerNIC? Only then will the circle be complete.
- Darth, on 10/11/2007, -6/+35The logical reasoning behind his stance is that Physics algorithms change over time, they improve, new techniques are discovered. Such algorithms if hardcoded into hardware like the PPU does will not have much scalability options for if the algorithm changes or improvoes you will need a new card. For physics they all want general purpose processing so that whatever alogrithms evolve over time, they wont need new hardware. Now agiea can change their hardware and make it general purpose, but then we already have CPUs and GPUs becoming more general purpose over time.
- shifty2, on 10/11/2007, -0/+25i think the main problem was that there were not that many developers writing code for it in their games, iirc Unreal had something for it and as well as a rainbow six game. plus now, multi core cpu's are everywhere and quite common. its probably easier to code for it and probably cheaper w/o a paying licensing from PhysX. $200+ for a dedicated PPU or $250+ for a quad-core intel CPU? hmmm...
- trubbleshute, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23Good for John, I respect this guy more than words. I'd love to work with him, I bet I could learn more in a day with this guy than years with some apes that I know.
- morgrar, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23...yeah. anything you play today dates back to what the guy did.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -2/+22Or your DX10 video card. The GeForce 8800's g80 chip as well as all future DX10 chips will use a massive parallel array of scalar processors instead of vector processor pipelines. The net resut is that they will basically be like a large number of relatively simple CPU cores. This makes them perfect for multi-programming, including handling "physics" general computing tasks while also doing GPU type stuff. If you like computer architecture at all, you should really read the nVidia whitepapers on it, as well as some of the articles by people like Jon Stokes.
- gdgi, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17The biggest downfall to PhysX is the proprietary, closed source physics library that they force everyone to use. Instead of just providing an API that anyone could implement support for, they force you to use THEIR physics engine in order to implement whatever you want to do on PhysX.
This is why GRAW had two physics engines in the game - one for the 'real' physics (havok) and one for the 'fluff' physics (ie particles). Completely useless in it's current state.
As it stands now, you have Ageia on one hand, and every other game engine & technology developer on the other. Of course it's dead in the water. There's no incentive to support it.
Now if they had an API that companies like Havok (or other Physics vendors) could provide a seamless layer of support for, then it wouldn't such a huge hastle for developers to implement games using their technology.
Basically all we'd need to do is check to see if they have a PhysX card, and if so, spawn fancy extra effects. If not, just spawn the 'normal' physics stuff.
Of course online games make this a whole other layer of complicated, since if you have PhysX and non-PhysX players in the same game, balancing the two is impossible without making the PhysX version disabled.
Crytek is running into similar situations with their Dx10 / Dx9 versions of Crysis. Dx9 players won't be able to play against Dx10 players because the destructible geometry is Dx10 only. Suddenly what was a near-impossible task before (shipping a fun multiplayer game) becomes exponentially more difficult - shipping effectively TWO fun multiplayer games simultaneously. - Jokermx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14"Unless you want (non-persistent) debris coming from explosions in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter or a cloth flag and oil spills in CellFactor, then a PhysX card is pretty useless at the moment."
Hmm, indeed, it's just a waste of money. - subxero37, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14My cousin has a Dell XPS. It's pretty upgradable -- I'll admit they don't stick to ATX, but they do stick to BTX, which *is* a standard.
No overclocking or tweaking, but for upgradability, it's fine. - Darth, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14just a point that carmack said the same thing in his keynote at quakecon, before ageia was released. What he sad here is basically re-affirming his stance which was there even before any of us got to see the PPU from ageia. So in some sense we only came to know this is true after he already said it wont be that popular.
- Darth, on 10/11/2007, -4/+15Umm dude, he is a freaking genius. His engines are by far the ones most used to date. His engines use new technology every time. The quake3 engine was reckoned as a perfect engine for the time by many developers. Just because id games are lacking a gameplay value (meaning their design team isnt that strong) doesnt mean they lack technical skills. They are gods > : (
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Um NO. They are being 'build' using the Havok physics simulation system, not their own!
Why build your own system for X dollars when you can license a proven system for 1/4 of that. - VeganG, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12We don't want to admit it? Who the hell have you been talking to?
- Reno582, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Multi-threaded games for the win...?
- Azio, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11Now that's just silly. A better plan would be for them to release a new $400 physics card every year or so, and require gamers to upgrade or else their games look like *****.
- soupir, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10What a hateful zoo keeper you are.
- VeganG, on 10/11/2007, -10/+19"Dell gaming machine" is an oxymoron since a gaming machine is something you would want to be able to upgrade. Dell's proprietary form factors make that impossible. I can't respect a company that doesn't respect standards.
- Vlatro, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11Physics Processing may be very promising, but at $300+ dollars, who needs it. If something like this was an integrated component on a motherboard chipset, game developers might develop games that use it. But while the majority of the market will never have one, why should developers waste so much time designing for it? They have enough bugs to track on game launches anyway, it's just one more potential problem for them. Make it a cheap and standard component and I think people would actually use it. When Asus integrates one for an additional $20 on my next Mobo, I'll get it, but I won't ever spend the kind of money they're asking.
- NSXDavid, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Actually the PhysX PPU is a general purpose processor. There is no software baked in... the algorithms it executes are pushed up by the driver each time.
- fremeer, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7maybe when unreal tourney 3 comes out which supports physx but at the moment its a $300 paperweight that cant be used as a paperwieght due to chances of static
- hilomania, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8I've been doing programming stuff and visualizations on PhysX for a while now. I work for a large corporation where we use PhysX fro visualizations. We can do things we couldn't afford before with a $300 graphics card in a system. It's a chicken and egg thing. Until Physics cards get cheap enough to put into a motherboard nobody will support them. (The first Quake game was also available unaccelerated; my first 3D programming was on SGIs selling for upwards of $20k). The only comment I agree with so far is the fact that a proprietary API is probably not a good idea.
- specialK16, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Yes, um, that's exactly what shifty2 said.
- ploop, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7It appears I was wrong. It uses a 32-bit PCI slot, which is worse. My current gaming box no longer has any.
- Darth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7People should stop confusing the technical side of a game from its design. Its true that id games lack the replay value and as years have passed their games still feel like games of the 90s with better graphics. This however doesnt mean at all that their engines are bad. They are excellent programmers, just poor designers. This topic of discussion is coming from the person who writes the engine that so many games use t date, and the person who is claimed to be father of 3D shooters. So what he says carries enought weight.
- venom8599, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I think most games have gravity already...
- po43292, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Exactly. With quad core already here and more processor power to come, Aegia came in too little too late.
- zoom1928, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Someone is either uninformed or trolling. I have seven Dell desktops in my office right now that were bought in either March or April that need new power supplies. They have non-standard form factors so you can't fit a real PC power supply in them. After wasting almost an hour with a drill and file to see if I could get a normal one to fit, I realized it wouldn't work anyway because Dell uses non-standard connectors to the motherboards. If you buy a Dell and something breaks, you're just screwed. Dell wants over $250 for the replacement power supplies. That sucks having to spend about 1/2 as much on a replacement power supply as we paid for the entire system. I bought a cheap $35 case at CompUSA to move the rest of the parts to, but the motherboard in the Dell doesn't fit in a real PC case. So, the only thing we're able to salvage is the RAM, hard drive, and CPU. Of course those are the few parts not made by Dell.
Screwed by Dell once again. - msgyrd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I read several reviews saying that it did work...but no reviewers ever thought it was worth the money.
- schoate09, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Not as irrelevant as you.
- Stratochief66, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Heh, thats the multi-hundred dollar ethernet card that may decrease your ping by like 2 ms?
- soupir, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5With this comment you have dominated our virtual world and left us the opposite of static and unchangeable. You are your own PPU, my friend.
- Vektuz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5The other problem is that there's no incentive to. The effects that these cards can output will not be seen on the super-vast-majority of systems, since hardly anyone has it. On top of that, because nobody really has these cards, the effects can't really be made to alter the actual gameplay, or anything, because the game's gotta work primarily on computers that don't have the card. So they're only able to be used for extra eye candy that doesnt interact in any way (extra particle explosions and so on).
So no developers going to bother throwing manpower at making use of it, if its useless to 99% of the install base.
And even if it grows to a large number, like 50% of the install base, its still not going to be used for actual gameplay stuff because you STILL want a game that plays the same on both machines. - strictnein, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9"Dell's proprietary form factors make that impossible"
What are you talking about? This isn't 1997 anymore. - damentz, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Here's another limitation, Windows only?
- dragon76, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4The 90's called and 3DFX wants GLide back.
- Giga, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4...Except that his point is valid. Go research before you make a post like that.
- Haplo, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5If that's true what's stopping you? There are plenty of good books on writing software for games, or are those "apes" keeping you away from those books. I doubt it, I think the biggest ape is you ;-)
- AzleGamer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Hmm, last year they were at Quakecon, hopefully they'll show up again regardless what Carmack says. They gave away some nifty stuff.
- strOphe, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Wrong.
this is just for the quake 3 engine:
* Quake III Arena (1999) — id Software
* Star Trek: Voyager Elite Force (2000) — Raven Software
* American McGee's Alice (2000) — Rogue Entertainment
* Heavy Metal: F.A.K.K.² (2000) — Ritual Entertainment
o James Bond 007: Agent Under Fire (2001) — EA Los Angeles (this was to be a PS2 and Windows version of the PlayStation and N64 game The World is Not Enough that was ultimately cancelled; it is based on the modified FAKK2 code base)
+ James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing (2004) — EA Black Box
o Medal of Honor: Allied Assault (2002) — 2015, Inc. (based on the modified FAKK2 code base)
+ Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - Spearhead (2003) — EA Los Angeles
+ Medal of Honor: Allied Assault - Breakthrough (2003) — TKO Software
* Quake III: Team Arena (2000) — id Software
* Return to Castle Wolfenstein (2001) — Gray Matter Interactive (SP) / Nerve Software (MP)
* Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (2003) — Splash Damage
* Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix (2002) — Raven Software
* Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (2002) — Raven Software
* Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (2003) — Raven Software
* Star Trek: Elite Force II (2003) — Ritual Entertainment
* Call of Duty (2003) — Infinity Ward
* Call of Duty: United Offensive (2004) — Gray Matter Interactive
* Severity (2007) — Cyberathlete Professional League - MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Dells are fully upgradeable.
Only issue is swapping mother boards, where some of the plugins in the front of the case may be hard or unable to reconnect.
And the back where some of the plugins might be different resulting in a new back cover being needed which is usually included with the mother board.
Oh yeah... LOL try to avoid buying a Dell - MacSuxWindozSux, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5The tech is redundant. You don't need an extra card to handle physics when multi core chips are out.
Just a waste of money. - Aquashark, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4"Co-creator of Wolfenstein, Doom and Doom 3"
err.. Quake is their biggest franchise you console n00b.. how can you miss that? - noerrorsfound, on 10/11/2007, -0/+39.8 m/s²
- gfnw, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Protip: John Romero, not John Carmack.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 126 discussions
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is