What is Digg?38 Comments
- bjxrn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+152008: Intel chip begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th.
- JoeBaynham, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Its cool to see what has changed in technology in the past 10 years! Dugg.
- bennybertow, on 10/12/2007, -0/+94 of these Breakthroughs are from this year alone... Hope those technologies will make it to the consumer market in a reasonable time.
- PugFish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@geminitojanus
You're comparing different generation of CPUs. The Athlon 64 architecture was better than the Pentium 4s in almost all categories for many years.
Although AMD have dropped the ball recently with the delays, I have no doubt the new Phenoms will give the Core 2s a run for their money. - crazymunch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I agree about AMD reigning supreme (Running an O/Ced FX-57), but AMD don't innovate as much as IBM and Intel, they just take the technology and make it smaller, faster, cooler and cheaper.
- Mousse, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Don't forget to add their latest innovation!
"Snowflakes promise faster chips"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6618919.stm - kickarse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6!DENIED!
- PugFish, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The Penryn is essentially in the same generation as Core 2, if they call it Core 3 it's nothing more than marketing. It's just an enhanced and shrunk version of previous Core 2s.
Just as Core 2 is a big architectural change from Pentium 4, Phenom is a change from the Athlon 64 architecture, making Core 2/3 and Phenom the right generation to compare. Yes AMD are behind in releasing their new chips, but comparing the 4 year old Athlon 64 against the 1 year old Core 2 technology isn't right.
From the original post: "they just take the technology and make it smaller, faster, cooler and cheaper"
This is about comparing similar technology, not about what's currently available. We all know the Core 2 beats the Athlon 64, because it has 3 years advantage in technology. - lloydpick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Indeed, really shows what IBM have done for computing over the last 10 years, makes you wonder where we'd be without them and what other major breakthroughs they have made over time.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Fujitsu, Motorola (what's left of it anyways), NEC, Toshiba, Samsung, STMicro, Renesas Technology aren't American companies.
- EBFoxbat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4They made a damn good keyboard too.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"believe them."
Do you work for IBM? Do you want to show me a working 45nm device they've developed? I'll sign an NDA in a heart beat, I just want proof they exist and they're not puffing smoke on something they haven't achieved yet (yes, I do believe they're working on High-K and 45nm, I just don't see any proof of the "breakthroughs" they've claimed). Meanwhile engineers at TSMC and Intel are already pumping out 45nm devices in sample quantities, Intel's cranking out High-K 45nm devices (which people have seen, and which have been publicly demonstrated and thusly known to work).
"Last I heard, this company averages over 3000 patents per year and this is all stuff they develop."
Well I certainly hope it's stuff they develop, else their patents aren't valid now are they? To put this in perspective: Intel published about 1,900 in the same period, HP pulled out 2100 patents, Microsoft published about 1500. So sure, they do a hell of a lot of research and a lot of land-grabbing over at IBM, but that's not necessarily a sign that very much work is being done (and there's no current estimate published on how many of those patents are actually /valid/ patents). - rushtrue, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@mousse: if you had actually read the original article, you would know that the link you posted is actually covering the most recent innovation on the top ten list. It would be beneficial if you actually read the articles before you commented on them.
- Ramble, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Neither is TSMC (Taiwan) with still manufactures most of the ATi chips (which was Canadian).
Samsung, whcih was mentioned easily makes most of the worlds best DRAM memory. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5There's some dispute over at least one of those claims; High-K dielectrics were announced and demonstrated by Intel before IBM could claim that cap (we've yet to see an IBM high-k chip, but they assure us they got to the technology first, sounds a bit fishy, right?) They also swear up and down they're going to start mass producing 45nm chips next year; Intel's already churning them out, getting ready for the upcoming manufacturing ramp necessary to make enough of these parts to saturate the channels by next year.
I'm also not sure about Immersion Lithography, because I could have sworn I read something about TI doing this in 2003. - geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Little kiddie self haters trying to deny facts"
Don't bother insulting them. People will Digg you down on this site just if they don't agree with you, not based on any merit of the statement at all.
To reply to your comment though: sure, many businesses set up camp here in the US because our IP laws are some of the most corporate-centric in the entire world; there's no better place in the entire world to file a patent than USA. However, even companies that are "completely" American do a huge portion of their development overseas (Intel in Israel, AMD in Germany, etc). - kaykfrink, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2My Pet Pentium!
- 1337gmr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1At this rate we will have the innovations in about 25 years, but then again they will help us rock out on the Internets Duo..
- swordedge, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1geminitojanus, believe them. IBM's core business can more properly be said to be research then service or selling computers. Last I heard, this company averages over 3000 patents per year and this is all stuff they develop.
- CrackaPleeze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Whichever company you arbitrarily choose to be a fan of, IBM, AMD, Intel, TI... they're all American companies.
w00t. - SoulWrangler123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0What would Kurzweil say about accelerated returns and this list...
- PugFish, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Phenom aka K10 aka K8L are all names for the same thing: K8+1"
Actually the new architecture was never called K8L, AMD have said themselves that it was all a misnomer. The L stands for low power, as in the Turion 64. It should be K9, but like you said, there is probably legal reasons for skipping it.
As for comparing equally numbered generations, it just doesn't work like that. As far as I am concerned Intel skipped a generation, still using the netburst architecture against the K8s until they realised it just wasn't cutting it anymore and created the Core architecture. Because they did this, we have to compare the Athlon 64 against the P4 because that is how Intel intended it.
Core 2 is meant to beat the Athlon 64 and that it does, enough to make it pointless to compare the 2. Phenom on the other hand is built to go head to head with the Core 2+ and all signs point to them being very similar in performance, making it fair to compare them.
I am not saying one is better than the other, I am not trying to argue over anything, I am simply saying compare the competing products that deserve to be compared against each other. - Smills, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I would say go back to myspace, but the last thing that myspace needs is to have its collective IQ lowered. So please, just stop using a computer and make the world a better place. Do your part.
- BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Little kiddie self haters trying to deny facts ago with the little dig down button again??? The irrational need to get back at the parents is kind of funny sometimes.
- RicktheBrick, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3We really need to develop software that will use this newly developed power because if we do not the computers will be idle most of the time. Even today a lot of computers are left on and doing nothing over 90% of the time. Distributive computing such as IBM's world community grid help but we need to develop some software that will help the individual too such as a computer to help by monitoring everything that causes flow(electricity, gas, water) around the house and can do something when a problem arises. It should be able to communicate with humans and be able to sense when they have a problem and call someone who can help.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"The Penryn is essentially in the same generation as Core 2"
Yeah, the Pentium II is essentially the same generation as the Pentium III too. Wait..
"Just as Core 2 is a big architectural change from Pentium 4"
Apples::Oranges. There is almost _nothing_ of Netburst in NGMA; they share a similar busing unit, they share some MicroOp Fusion techniques that came from their Israeli Microarchitecture development team, but that's _it_.
"Phenom is a change from the Athlon 64 architecture"
Phenom aka K10 aka K8L are all names for the same thing: K8+1, AMD's 9th generation architecture (silly to call it K10, but there's probably some trademark issues with K9). If we're comparing 9th generation architectures, we should compare Nehalem (Intel's 9th generation) to K10. Core 2 is an _eighth_ computing generation architecture (in fact, many people are incorrectly calling it P8; it is more accurate to call it P6-5 as it is the 5th generation of the P6 architecture [Pentium Pro, Pentium II, Pentium III, Pentium-M, Core]. P7 is "officially" Netburst).
So, once again, if we are to compare _computing_ generations:
7th: Netburst vs K7 (Athlon XP).
8th: NGMA (Core 2) vs K8.
9th: NGMA+1 (Core 4?) vs K10.
"This is about comparing similar technology, not about what's currently available."
If we want to compare similar technologies _today_, we have to talk about what's available _today_. If we want to compare this yesterday, then we have to compare it yesterday. It's not like I'm making up these terms; they're not only in the materials these companies use to sell these chips, but also in academics when studying this material. Intel definitely screwed with the timeline by using a completely new, never previously-used architecture (Netburst) instead of continuing on and building chips like the Pentium-M (also a 7th generation chip) from the get-go, but these are the facts.
"We all know the Core 2 beats the Athlon 64, because it has 3 years advantage in technology."
We all know the Athlon 64 (released circa 2003) beats the Pentium 4 (released circa 2000), because it has a 3 year advantage in technology, not counting the fact that Netburst was never tested in the market before it was released. See how specious your argument sounds? - BigSlacker, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0The engineering of all those companies do is done globally although the US is the engineering leader in pretty much all fields. A lot of foreign companies contract to US engineering companies or open development offices here.
- rowlodge, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1wheres c3po?...
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2"I have no doubt the new Phenoms will give the Core 2s a run for their money."
Now who's comparing different generations? The Core 2 is a part of the late generation of the Athlon 64s, the Phenoms upon launch will be compared to the current generation, which will be Penryn (likely to be called "Core 3" if we follow the progression from Pentium M to Core to Core 2).
Comparing current generations means taking both of the newest chips the companies make (Athlon 64 X2 "Brisbane", Q107 release vs Core 2 Duo "Conroe" H206 release, both 65nm chips, both engineered within months of each other; the Conroe was actually shipped out /behind/ the Brisbane core by about 5 months), and in this head-to-head battle, the Core 2 wipes the slate, period. Try to skew it any way you like, the Core 2 simply outperforms the AMD offerings. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Is cheating at chess considered an "innovation"?
- refriaire, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Fallout 2?
- eezzzz, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Cool... I wonder which one they'll use to calculate genocide. Again.
- deephole, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0Marketing hype
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2"make it smaller"
Intel had 65nm 19 months before AMD.
"faster"
Clock rate fast? Intel Pentium D @ >7GHz. IPC fast? Conroe slightly nudges the Athlon 64 from its perch in most categories (and in others, completely blows it away).
"cooler"
>120W Athlon 64 vs 95W Conroe
"cheaper."
You got me. But hey, if it's worth $20-50 to you to step down to AMD _and_ have to replace your motherboard the next chip generation, go for it. - davidrools, on 10/12/2007, -9/+4Blocked!
- RadioFiasco, on 10/12/2007, -9/+2Give it time. AMD always reins SUPREME! :-p
- e30guy, on 10/12/2007, -36/+0First!
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