What is Digg?165 Comments
- WarpFox, on 10/12/2007, -9/+84Actually, the age of building cheap computers has past. Nowadays it is -far- cheaper to buy a computer from dell than use the age-old practice of loading up pricewatch and assembling parts. Of course the homemade computer will be of far better quality, but for joe user you're better off sticking to dell. (i grind my teeth saying that but it's true :( )
- oreo2123, on 10/12/2007, -14/+63Anybody else think that baxtermaddux's post is ironic??
- simpleid, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35After that pretty lame web dev tutorial made it to the -home- page and now this, I gather a more 'mainstream' kind of crowed might be influencing change on digg. Maybe this place is no longer exclusive to the technically inclined, since recent articles show a vote-up by generally ignorant crowd.
If we all really knew this stuff it would have been buried long before it had a chance, right?
Just making an observation. - baxtermaddux, on 10/12/2007, -6/+26jusdging from the comments on digg i would say the average digger is a moron
- mrswirl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22The hardest thing about building your own PC these days is figuring out the right MB/CPU combo. Couple of years ago you could rely on the GHz standard to tell you if your CPU was top of the line. Now you have to factor in FSB and hyper-threading vs. dual core so it's a lot harder to know if you're getting the best for your needs. (Notice how I said "best for your needs" - not "best" as in "absolute fastest" - Faster is not always better). The chip names are more cryptic now too which adds to the general confusion.
I've always built my own rig mostly because I go for quality over price. I also keep my PCs around longer than most (average ~5 years) so I'm more concerned about upgradability and flexibility in the components. I always upgrade my HDs, video cards, RAM, whatever, first before I invest in building a whole new rig so I make sure the basics are the best I can get. Something like a Lian Li case definitely is worth the price (all aluminum for better cooling, slide out MB tray, rounded edges on the inside = no more band-aids for your knuckles, etc). A good case can be used for much longer than the guts inside.
Also, the most overlooked piece in any PC is the power supply. The best advice is not to scrimp in quality here but also don't go for the highest wattage either. A 1000w supply is just stupid. Stick with the quality brands like Enermax or Antec in the 480w-600w range. Most of the flakiness I've seen in troubleshooting PC problems can be traced back to a faulty power supply. Dell has a bad habit of stocking their PCs with barely adequate power supplies (last week I had to swap out a generic 250w supply in a P4 system). The absolute worst offenders were E-Machines though - truly they were (are) real POS's. - felchdonkey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14then != than
- alexace, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Actually, you can. Newegg has tons of laptop parts. you have to go and get the barebone unit somewhere else, though. I've built a few, and they are easier to build than a desktop, and you can do more customization and QC than Dell or HP, etc. Tom's Hardware did a review for that, but they used a crappy barebone. Check the Built On ASUS brand. It is really nice in terms of price and quality. Unfortunately, Laptops done DIY are still a bit more expensive than regular ones, but only at the 800$-1000$ price range. If you want a real good one, you should check it out.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11Too bad I can't build my own laptop on the cheap :(
I've been building my own systems since 1990 and I'm tired of desktops... - All4not, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@WarpFox
Your absolutely right. I used to like to build PCs for people because they were much cheaper and better quality, but now you can get a Dell cheaper or even an eMachine for your grandma if she only wants to send $200 on junk hardware. Us little guys just can't compete with the large companies on price due to their volume prices, since they don't gouge people on the low to medium end anymore.
I still build my own and I built one for a friend last month, because she didn't care if it was cheaper. She wanted a PC that had quality and 'style', which ended up being a blue acrylic case from svc, because we were unable to find a pink case of good quality to match her ipod. - arizonabay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11I just built a system a month ago with these specs: Core Duo 6400, 2GB RAM, w/ NVidia 7900, 250GB 7200 Barracuda, 600W P/S, 1 DVD-RW drive, 1 DVD/CD-RW drive, no monitor because I already had one. Bought everything off newegg for just under a $1000.If I were to have gotten a Dell? Well, after customizing an XPS with these specs (with no monitor as well) it was $1700. Didn't see any comparable systems on the sites you mentioned that beat my home build price.
And as far the time that I put in? I wouldn't at all include that in the build price. I enjoy building things that I'm going to use for myself. It's the same reason I built the deck in my backyard and the same reason I do all my own landscaping: getting your hands dirty doing something else other than what you're normally paid to do can be refreshing. What more important things are you going to do with your time? Browse digg and call people "newbs" ?
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- KJay, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10I was unaware that Disney sold computer parts... I believe you mean tigerdirect.com
- profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Good article, but I'm wondering when it's from. Maybe I just missed the date?
FTA: "Right now, for gaming, the Athlon64 processor is the best choice when it comes to performance."
As far as I know, the Core 2 Duos have been outpacing the X2s for some time now. - kent1146, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Of course they'd throw a nice case in the mix. You used to be able to save a lot of money by putting your own rig together. Nowadays, there is little to no cost savings by putting your own comp together versus buying a configured system from an OEM Dell (especially when you stack Dell coupons).
The *ONLY* advantage of putting your own rig together is that you get to specify exactly parts you want to put in the system, so that you're not forced to use the parts that an OEM like Dell uses. And if I'm gonna specify the part that I put into my rig, you'd better believe that a case that stands out is one of the things I'm gonna use. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Cool. Thanks for the info! Whoever said Digg is nothing but pointless banter was wrong!
- theOster, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12also people should pay attention to the "better computer" qualifier. dell will still give you a cheaper pc if you're looking strictly at cost. i haven't ever been able to beat the low end dells.
oreo
like um, ok...so....link please kind of thing? - polyGone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6The RAM bone is connected to the Motherboard Bone!!
- LiquidPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8@WarpFox
The sad part is, I don't think that we'll ever be able to swing back to the cost effectiveness of building your own PC unless something drastic changes on the computing landscape. Companies like Dell will have you beat in the lower cost components and companies like Apple have you beat in the beauty department. I don't care what anybody says, those stylized mass-marketed DIY cases look like dog *****. Ever see the wannabe Alienware Area 51 cases? Geez.
It's even getting harder and harder to beat out the OEMs on a feature by feature basis. All that's left is the radical custom work such as liquid cooling (I remember when Home Depot was a staple for water cooling parts, now everything is pre-made) or Over Clocking. And even these are being targeted by some OEMs.
The frontier times of custom PC work has passed. Much like the days of machining your own parts in the high school shop or scrounging the junkyard to build that Model T hotrod, just because you could, have long passed. Two groups have appeared, those with the skill and money to set themselves apart and grab the attention of the masses and those who have the money and resources to force commodity prices for their components. The rest of us are like consumer vultures, picking up what's left over without actually producing anything of interest. - Hypermarkalan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Enough with the n0ob comments.
One of the most brilliant programmers I've ever worked with was also a complete retard when it came to hardware. We didn't even allow him to own a screwdriver. The man could speak in Hexadecimal but would utterly destroy the insides of a computer.
Remember, there are geeks of different stripes. - borninda818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6lol...there is plenty of help out there and instructions are pretty straight forward. I suggest building the first one with a friend who knows about such things and upgrading it yourself in the future if need be. Newegg is the best place for parts...and the reviews are very helpful.
btw...I personally would have gone with a core2duo setup, especially if you are going to pay 100+ for a lion li case...Get a lot more bang for your buck...and that big ass heat sink would have been completely unnecessary.
Overall a good review, mostly because of the pictures. Would have chose different parts though - 1021, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Well, I've never opened up a box except to upgrade things like RAM, Processor, Hard Drive, etc. I am primarily a software developer and haven't ever built a PC from just parts. I'm sure others like me exist out here on Digg.
- NoHandle, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11@se1zure:
You don't know what you are talking about, or you are buying parts from the wrong suppliers. I built a brand new computer this summer for approximately $1200. I then added on a 24" Dell Display $899. So about $2200 total.
The exact same system I built then from Dell today, with the same monitor that dropped $200, is still close to $4000.
How is that not cheaper to build it yourself?
You also make a very valid point about upgrades. What gives with Dell pulling parts that save them what? Five, maybe ten cents and prevent you from even being able to upgrade one component that you will most likely need to change in 2 years. I guess this ensures you will need to buy a new computer, but if you have any common sense, this should also ensure you never buy from them again. - pype, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Why is this on the front page? I was under the impression (based on the violent response to any anti-mac posts) that all diggers were super slick mac-o-sexuals that would sooner brew their own latte than get dirty opening a computer.
- UrlorJkron, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I installed a Core 2 Duo a few weeks ago and was surprised to learn they didn't have pins. The advice still stands; one might get unwanted debris on the part. I wouldn't even take it out of the box until I'm ready to put it on the mother board anyways.
- LiquidPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@NoHandle
Some of us don't live in component saturated areas. I live in a a major city that has several major computer companies here (HP and Intel for instance) and it's neigh impossible to buy a component 30% lower than MSRP nevermind 50%. Sure, we have sales and rebates and all the usual crap, but these are for junk components that don't sell anyways. Hell, even the "antique" PC components still command a too high price. A reasonably rated P2 still demands at least $20 in the shops, but I couldn't sell the same component on eBay to recover listing costs.
If I build an idential PC to what Dell offers using online resources and other city scouts, the best I could aim for is around 10% or 15% above Dell MSRP. This is on the low end stuff. On the higher end stuff, I could sometimes come in just under the MSRP by about 20% if luck is with me. But the time and effort of tracking down components below cost, especially since I don't have a business license and can't tap into some of the resources some builders can, far exceeds any cost benefits I might gain. I haven't been able to beat out MSRP by 45% for about five years now.
If you know of resources that can beat out basic tools like Price Watch, then by all means let us know. - johneee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Go to the ArsTechnica system guide. ( http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer.ars ) They have four different setups at various price points.
They also have a forum where people will give you lots of help. - Digg4all, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Everyone keeps saying dell, but most people that are building their PCs do so for a reason. Of course you can buy a dell cheaper. That doesn't mean that you will get that high quality ASUS MB with everything else you wanted. You will get middle of the road. If you want quality you will have to pay for it. Voodoo PCs are not expensive because of the name or because they don't have buying power like dell, its because quailty costs money. Fast, Reliable, and Cheap, pick only two. And I think you saying people who build their own PCs are Noobs is retarded. If you are telling me people that build their home pc vs buying a Dell is the sign of a noob, then you must know something about Dell I don't
- Troopy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7First off, dont do like the 2nd picture and place your CPU face down on any surface as this will bend the pins!!
- tastypastry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Building your own PC is a lot of fun and can be frustrating at times but in the end its all worth it. I highly recommend this to people who want to learn something new and something that is not that hard at all.
- drjekelmrhyde, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8How to build a PC HAAAAAAAAA most diggers need to know how to date a woman
- Hypermarkalan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I agree with fintheman.
There are two kinds of people who build their own box. 1) Dedicated computer user who does everything from gaming, transcoding video, and running a PVR, and who obsesses about every technical aspect about every piece of electronic equipment they own; 2) The uninitiated, casual user who only uses their box for word processing, surfing the net, and burning DVDs and mistakenly believes that building their own would be cheaper.
For user 1 it will always be cheaper, and offer a greater peace of mind, to build their own. But for the number 2s, which, by the way far outnumber us 1s, that first foray into building their own will in all actuality loose money, especially since they really don't care about system performance. As long as their box completes the tasks they want with a little speed they'll be happy. - alexace, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yeah, no problem. One of my favorite midrange models is the z92 series. you can get them with a 7600GT, and either a turion x2 or a core 2 duo(merom). Try froogle.
- Digg4all, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4don't forget to add lots of LEDs, plexi, and a lack of taste for the complete experience.
- stupidStan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6majority of computer users use windows, especially new users - its likely that a person who cant build thier own machine is not going to run Linux, etc.
It seems like people post things like this just to show that they are big bad computer users and better than all of those pitiful windows users... I am tired of it, you probably posted this on a windows machine anyways - drjekelmrhyde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4http://anandtech.com/guides/
- magic5227, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Here's a PDF and word doc of the article.
Warning, LOTS of pictures
http://www.box.net/public/q1jninzoyh#main - knyght23, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Totally agree, compatibility is the key. Figure out what you want the pc to do, then find the parts that can do it together. Remember to do your homework on your components as well, especially the board. And if you aren't sure, just ask someone you know that you trust or join a hardware forum, listen and ask questions.
- disturbed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Great guide. Does anyone know a good place besides ebay that sells used computers for cheap? I am looking in the 1ghz range.
- coolspray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3To be honest, get a book or a print a really thorough internet guide. You will need a good reference to look at for the first time. It just becomes a pain if you have to keep looking on another computer.
- ahughes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I can say that this guide gives you a good background in the basics. I have never owned a PC that I didnt build from the ground up. I have found self-built PCs to be the best performers and on par with big chain pricing. In fact the first PC I ever bought I built. It was a Celeron 333 with 128MB of PC100. Those are the good old days. But this is still my computer today. I have upgraded it over the years, and it doesnt resemble it's former self anymore, but in my mind it is still the same entity. It is now an Athlon64 4000+ with 1GB DDR333.
As far as the comment about Core 2 Duos outpacing X2s...
From what I have seen, the Core 2 Duos have been beating the crap out of the X2s when it comes to business and media applications (as Intel has a long history of beating AMD with). As has been the typical history, AMD has been beating Intel in the gaming arena, but Intel has made great strides in this area and is on par with, if not beating AMD (depending on game and CPU). Also, the X2s use a hell of a lot more power than the Core 2 Duos. I think this is largely due to the smaller die size of the Core 2 Duo. Considering the next-gen videocards (NVidia 8800GTX for example), uses a lot of power. I believe I read somewhere that it was rated at 354W under load. So the power consumption thing comes into play quite a bit here.
I have always held true to never holding a loyalty to a company. I always do a crap load of research and buy the best products I can. In the end, it costs a bit more, but the savings of not taking it to a tech shop to have it repaired for $80/hr or the cost of swapping out parts to try to fix the problem myself, it more than pays for itself. - MWrenn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Haven't built one in a while, but it's usually immediately cheaper to buy a computer already made. Where building a computer saved me money was being able to upgrade parts in the future one at a time, since not everything is jammed on to the motherboard or put in a custom case that won't fit anything else. That said, building a computer is definitely the way to go if you're tech savvy in the least, and also have a friend help with the first one like somebody said above.
- n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Goodwill.
I am not sure if they have them in your area, but here in San Antonio they have a Goodwill Computer Works store. They sell old systems cheap. It is also a great place to find old and outdated parts that are no longer availible. And the money goes to a good cause! - KJay, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I highly recommend that people spend more time learning to do things that are difficult [for them]. You will never improve your skill set if you only do things that you get right the first time.
- PacoDG, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Mac people are just more defensive than Windows people. They are the minority much like the Linux crowd, thus they need their own sections on digg to make them feel more welcome. Consider all other sections on digg for the pc people.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3these types of stories are less and less true... i've built several computers using the least expensive parts available and you can buy prebuild PC's for nearly the same price and in some cases better prices for less work as well as a 3-year warranty and tech support. stop trying to be "leet" and be smart.
- RodrigoKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah it's old... But it's meant to teach one how to build a desktop. I think it still very much serves that purpose, isn't it?
- SilentBobSC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Here's the thing, for enthusiasts, building is the way to go. However, many people see posts like this and think "Well hey, I can do that" then they go out and build a semi-functional computer but have nowhere to turn when they have technical problems (gods help their tech friends)... so in most cases for the general public, a name-brand computer is still worth the $$$ because of the support that is offered, and many times HP, Dell, etc. have better prices because when you buy 1,000+ units of anything you get just the slightest discount /sarcasm.
SB - fintheman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"If you are telling me people that build their home pc vs buying a Dell is the sign of a noob, then you must know something about Dell I don't"
No, my argument is that building PC's is a fad that every teenage computer geek goes through at a point in their life. After awhile, you get sick of it, and then you realize how much easier it is just to get a full package and just replace the video card / hard drives / components of that pre-made system yourself.
I also do not have an entire QA / Engineering Team available for compatibility. It is NAIVE to think that the system you are building will be better when the large manu's have extremely large teams dedicated to making sure every single "custom" component works fine and together and then goes through a process of QA to insure that.
The only people I respect as builders are people in the gaming scene/overclockers scene, otherwise, there is no point. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2download: How to build the ultimate custom pc pdf
http://www.transferbigfiles.com/Download.aspx?id=5e4844b1-ca3f-42c9-8fd9-798a8bce9f4e
or:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R1B7MYRS - KlayBorg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@kent
Not really, there can be some enormous savings made by building your own computer versus buying a Dell OEM. - mrswirl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@fintheman - "The only people I respect as builders are people in the gaming scene/overclockers scene, otherwise, there is no point. "
That's a stupid comment. I've been building my own PCs since the 8086 days and I'm not a gamer (hell - I built a custom 486 laptop just to bootstrap SUSE linux kernel 1.2 on it).
Sure - I can go to Dell and buy an off the shelf system that I will end up throwing in a dumpster in a couple of years or I can spend the time and money build a system with quality components that will last through a few upgrade cycles.
It's the difference between buying three Chevy Cavaliers or just one Lexus. The total amount of money spent is equal when compared over the same time period. -
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