What is Digg?85 Comments
- mockstar, on 10/12/2007, -3/+59Ah, so the liquid cools it.
- crawfishsoul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22So by that logic, I should never attempt anything I haven't done before and stop learning new things immediately?
I'm going home now, nothing new to learn anymore. Goodbye digg, it's been fun but dubloe7 has a good point, we're all too dumb to do new things. - EdLesMann, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18"this is all it takes to entertain digg users?"
No. Usually we need to have Ubuntu in the title, and have at least 3 "DUPE!" 's and 5 "No Digg" comments for us to rave about...
j/k :-D - dmsean, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I'd like to see an Article "Liquid Cooling gone wrong, all wrong"
but I guess those people may have difficulty posting on Digg with a wet computer. - crilen007, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9If it's a good article, why not?
- dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10yes, xoxide is a good site, in fact i frequent there myself.
as a 'veteran' of custom pc builds i reccomend not doing watercooling on your very first build.
chances are that if someone tries to go out and start watercooling their computer right after reading this they wont set up the system in an empty case and run it for a week like you're supposed to, and they probably wont know enough about applying thermal paste if theyve never built a system before, among other things. either read an in depth instruction manual or two before doing it, or build an air cooled system for now and make your next build water cooled. - bennomatic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7We also like to see lots of exclamation marks!!!
- apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7When you can overclock it significantly without starting a small inferno in your computer, yes.
- IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Why not? Lots of simple kits available.
For example: http://www.xoxide.com/watcoolkit.html - apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It's also much better if your computer fans sound like they're powered by a Rolls-Royce Merlin aircraft engine when the PC is started.
- apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Phase-change cooling is soooo much better if you can afford it. If you're going to burn money on cooling your PC, why not go all-out? It is more expensive, but if you can't afford it then odds are your computer is cheap and you'd be better off with a faster processor than water-cooling an old, overclocked processor.
- Aliasing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Just to preempt the "water + electronics = bad lawl" comments, the fluids used in "water" cooling are almost universally non-conductive, and very often are not water at all.
- NealP, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4that'd be liquid cooled buddy.
- underthewether, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7why do people feel the need to digg stuff that can be looked up easily?
- apocalizer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I thought the link in the article to the Tom's Hardware story about the oil-cooled PC was a more interesting read.
- daldredge, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you have to water cool to get stability out of stock components then you really should buy higher quality parts in the first place.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3People still take the A+ exam?
- cvrefugee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The radiator and PSU still have fans so water-cooling won't completely eliminate the noise. I've found that air-cooling with larger fans set at a lower speed normally make a pretty silent PC.
- doctornkul, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4If you want to be extreme, you can take a part an A/C unit, shove the evaporator coils into your reservoir and keep the A/C running nonstop. Unloaded, with a 5000 BTU A/C, you may very well get temperatures down to -40 C. Then, overclock your CPU and increase the voltage all you want (with discretion, of course), and chances are you'll probably still be subzero. The only other things to remember are to add a bit of antifreeze to lower the freezing point (it won't be very good watercooling if it is ice) and to kill any mold/algae that might get into the system, and INSULATE your pipes so that no dew forms on the outside. That can be bad news for your computer.
Also, as someone who has researched WCing for a while, let me tell you that you shouldn't expect to get temperatures any better than a HSF (Heatsink + Fan) with a cheap kit. If you're getting one of those "Silent Kits", your temps might even go up. In watercooling, Kits are generally a bad idea, as their makers often end up cutting corners. The few kits that really do a good job tend to be expensive, so you'll probably be best off getting a pump, tubing, and waterblocks seperately. And be sure to check the ratings first - they really vary! - shlemielo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4dubloe is just saying that people should probably try out building a computer first, THEN try water cooling it.
edit: ok, dubloe defends himself very quickly. - josegutz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2What about condensation? That already happens with LC processors.
I really don't see what all the fuss is about. What.. are we doing the next Lucas film?
Just put a frikking bigger fan on it and be done. - Erasmus354, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2How about folding 24/7 on a heavily overclocked machine and not wanting to worry about heat problems in the summer, or hearing the computer when I go to sleep at night.
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You've never owned a Prescott, have you? :)
- alwaysmc2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4This was a great article.
- dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2(wow, is there like 10 seconds to edit a post?)
its the whole biting off more than you can chew thing, maybe build a system now, you can try peltiers since they have less of a chance of utter, expensive failure, later build a water cooled system, maybe after that go for phase change. work your difficulty level up instead of starting difficult.
also if your doing water cooling chances are you have hotter running components, which means you probably have newer components, which means you have expensive components. expensive components + a leaking watercooling system = much failure
@crawfish
no, by that logic you should learn to fly using a cessna, not a 747. maybe closer to starting learning algebra before you lear addition, subtraction, multiplication, etc. if your too stupid to realise that theres a difference then you probably should leave. - Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, perfect if you enjoy destorying expensive hardware from condensation. Really, there is no reason to need to chill below room temperature for most people, and your solution would just be overkill.
There is a happy medium for people who want a bit better cooling than air will provide but who aren't trying to melt down their CPU via insane OCs that the price point of a good water system meets.
If phase change cooling was all it was cracked up to be, the Cray's wouldn't have been liquid cooled.. it's not like they didn't have a very large budget to work with. - EdLesMann, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"i hate liquid cooled PCs. My idea. Mini air conditioners inside of computers."
Not quite the same, but a similar idea. Several years ago when I was in college, I would set up my computers on top of the dorm room airconditioner. Kept the computers really cool, and kept the room at a nice temp.
Now I have a computer table setup with most of the parts exposed and I just use a 20$ box fan from walmart to cool all of them at once. Started when I had trouble keeping 6 harddrives (in RAID5) cool inside of a case and needed a quick cheap solution. Probably not the best of ideas, but meh it works... - dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2no, no it cant.
fire needs oxygen. - Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Though I don't have it set up that way anymore, at one point I had zero fans in my system. (Zalman reserator, Koolance blocks on some heat sinks I picked up at a hamfest cooling the PSU, Koolance Hard Drive cooler and then the usual assorted bits and pieces from Danger Den).
What that experiement taught me is that the damn pump will never be quiet enough, and once you get everything quiet you have to listen to the hard drive anyways.
Now I run liquid cooling on the Northbridge, CPU, and VGA only with a few 120mm Vantec Stealth and Panaflow fans for everything else. It's still pretty damn quiet and takes up less space. - Erasmus354, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Decent article, they got a number of things wrong though, specifically about the pump and importance of head pressure. Being a closed loop, any work done against gravity raising the coolant to the top is counter acted when gravity pulls the coolant back down the other side....what goes up must come down you know. If your pump has head pressure less than the height of your system it is too weak to begin with and will struggle merely pumping water through the waterblocks.
Also you can get a very good watercooling system for 150$ new or 100$ used, which isn't one of those crappy Tt or other premade kits. - dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i would digg a good wikipedia article..
- Snarfy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There is this stuff called FluidXP that is supposedly non-conductive. I've used it in my koolance watercooled computer for over a year now. The only problem I've had with it is the fluid gets flaky crap in it after a while, like something is growing in it. The vast majority of people use de-ionized water, without issues.
I'm not too worried about corrosion. By the time my waterblocks corrode, the components they are cooling will be obsolete anyway. New components usually need made to fit waterblocks. When I built my machine, the dual 6800GT cards were top of the line. Now a single 7900 card outperforms them. - manageMyRights, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've read that using anti-freeze gives the computer a bad smell. Is this correct? If so, what are better alternatives (if distilled water is out)?
- Kitsune818, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've got a 1/2" DangerDen setup, a "custom" Zalman/Koolance setup, and a Tt "BigWater" 120.
Honestly, the Tt performs just as well as the others and has lasted for years now without a single hiccup. I have to admit, though, I plumbed in a DD Fill-port with a "T" in that system and threw out the resevoir it came with. Never had a problem with the original, it was just difficult to get at. - BiGSexY420, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gaming
- turbodigg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I could not bring my self to submerge my computer in oil, It just seems to risky. Imagine, oil covered CPU, GPU...... It seems to go against what you think is right.
- BugMeNot2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I'm guessing you weren't here when every other article on Digg was from Wikipedia (of course, I'm exaggerating, but there were quite a bit of Wikipedia articles on the front page).
- BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Okay this is creepy - that case and setup is almost *exactly* like the one sitting on my desk (lol). My office gets pretty warm and while this setup doesn't cool it much lower than air alone the temp swings are MUCH less pronounced. I run an FX AMD at 2.6Gig w/100% CPU usage 24X7 and temps seldom get about 51C even when the room heats up. Come to think of it - I knocked a SOLID 15 degrees off of my vid card though, it used to run hotter than my CPU! I chose a pretty big radiator aka heater core and a couple of silent 12CM fans to cool it. I hear the one case fan cooling my HD but that's it. I did have some leakage thanks to the crappy build job on my plexi reservoir but overall it's been trouble free for months. the case was a cheapie plexi off like Geeks.com on sale so I had no issues drilling where needed.
This solution was NOT cheap compared to the monster heatsink I had but overall it's more stable and the vid card is much cooler. No complaints here at all about it - WaterWetter keeps the crud down in the water too :-) - seeSharp, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Got one word for liquid cooling - Zalman. I've built many, many machines and now I only use Zalman heatsinks and fans. The move a lot of air and are very quiet. I just wish that certain power supply manufacturers would use them inside their units.
- InsaneMachine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I think the problem with watercooling, is that it is so expensive. If you want to get a good unit. I don't really trust those fit in a 5 and 1/2" bay or two.
- pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yep. Vapo FTW.
- BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Borbosha - suggest you read up on what the Dew Point is. It has nothing to do with water cooling and everything to do with what occurs when an item is cooler than the surrounding air. Ever seen water condense on the sides of a glass with ice in it? the glass is cooler than the Dew Point. do that with a computer and you'll find yourself using a hair dryer to remove the moisture. Been there, done that - do not wish a repeat. I'll admit it's harder when using an A/C unit since A/C removes moisture from the air but it's still something I'd be wary of - it's also a pretty inefficient way to cool something down...
- JessFactor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This edit thing sucks ass. I meant to say placing your computer in front of an air conditioner may not be a good idea because of dew point issues. As far a mini fridge like computer case: Liebert makes something like that in rack form, so it would work, but be expensive to operate. They make a server rack that is pretty much a powerful refrigerator for people who really don't need a dedicated server room.
- BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How about running a Distributed.net client 24X7 on a heavily overclcocked machine in an office with about 5 other machines all doing the same and with little in the way of ventilation? Water cooling allows the primary machine, the fastest one, to run balls out without major temp swings. Hot or cool in here my machine's temp doesn't vary significantly and the machine remains stable. The thermal mass of all that water keeps temps in check pretty well.
When I build out my next office I'm actually contemplating a water manifold, jacks for each computer, and a radiatorpump in my crawlspace to chill the water. All of my computers would be near dead silent done this way but maintenance and cost may prove too much to overcome. It could easily be done though :-) - dubloe7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1it was supposed to be 1 correction but in the middle of me typing an addendum to it it stopped allowing me to edit it, which was annoying because i had to retype everything.
i guess i was a little too vague in my original post with ~"if you have not built a computer before dont implement a wc system in your first build" - tastethevenom, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Using the Zalman Reserator 1 Plus and an Antec Phantom 500 PSU -- WITHOUT a single fan humming -- I'm happily posting on Digg right now.
http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=160&code=021
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=24500 - pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Unfortunately, most see the BigWater (and other crappy premade kits) and jump at it because of the relatively low cost, and the idea they'll be up and running in minutes without having to assemble from scratch.
I recommend the Swiftech H20-Apex for a water solution. - BLKMGK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Go below the dew point and you had better have it WELL insulated! I used to overclock and watercool with Peltiers - CPU loaded 100%. One day the CPU locked up and I came home to a BALL of *ice* around my CPU dripping condensate on my vid card - vid card TOAST. without the load to keep it warm that sucker dropped temps like a rock :-)
That doesn't even count the numbers of times my computer would fritz and I'd have to use a hairdryer to get all of the MOISTURE out of the CPU socket. Yes, I'd insulated it, used grease on the pins, blah blah blah. It would still freak out every so often and the grease made it a bitch to clean - not to mention pulling it all apart.
Years later I'm perfectly happy to keep temps at ambient or as close as possible without inviting condensation. It's near dead silent and the temps don't fluctuate all over... - pabster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Um, no. Distilled water is a no-no. Once it comes in contact with ANY metal it ionizes on the spot. There's plenty of pictures of ruined equipment from those who thought they were smart using $0.29 per gallon distilled water instead of $5 a bottle coolant.
- borbosha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@JessFactor:
The dew point wouldn't affect an air conditioned computer case since there is no water involved in the cooling. It is simply cooling the surrounding air, effectively cooling the processor. AC with water cooling would pose very little use and even then the water would have to be colder than the air conditioned air for it to condense. So unless you cooled the water past the dew point you would have no problems with condensation. -
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