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112 Comments
- Spengler, on 10/12/2007, -2/+119I can't believe how bad this is getting. Every piece of information we find out on these things makes them seem even worse than what we previously thought. Scary stuff. And when I mention it to folks I know (on either side of the isle), they either don't know about it, don't try to understand it, or don't care. How can Joe Voter be so cavalier about what is happening here?
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -12/+73What's even more interesting is that someone modded you down. Do we have actual Diebold employees monitoring Digg? Or was it someone from the GOP?
Why did I link Diebold to the GOP? Well, their contributions to the GOP for one thing, and what their CEO has said. "This year, I will make sure the GOP gets the votes." (Paraphrasing). He was referring to his contribution and PR support -- or was he? It sounds very ironic saying something like that when you make voting machines! - ZeroG52, on 10/12/2007, -3/+48I'm a Republican, and I believe this to be one of the most horrifying things I have seen in a long time. Voting is sacred and needs to be protected at all costs. It is one of the cornerstones of our great Democracy, and I find it shocking that a company like Diebold would sell a machine as insecure as this - and even more so that the GOP is contributing to them in a very suspicious way. On top of that, were these machines used in the election of 2004? I can't find any information of that. With elections as close as that one was, and the fiasco surrounding the count afterwards, we need to make damn sure these things are bulletproof. The candidate that gets the most votes from the electoral college needs to win - period, and the electoral college (based on popular vote) needs to know exactly who the constituents want in office - without question. Diebold is a disgrace and needs to be dropped from all government payrolls NOW.
- SNACKeR, on 10/12/2007, -1/+40More importantly, get your hands on a Diebold key and you can OPEN ANY MINIBAR!
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31Are the youngsters just learning the old adage that once you have physical access to a machine that (almost) any box can be owned? Physical security is just as important as network security.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+26Man this kinda crap makes me yearn for the days of "hanging chads."
- cakestick, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27If this story doesn't reach critical mass, then our Democracy will have failed.
- mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Not only has Canada been perfectly happy with paper ballot counting, every election in every district has the exact same ballot design that a paramecium could understand. Paper record, existing infrastructure and no surprises. Why is that so hard to do in the U.S.? I mean, we KNOW it works and we KNOW exactly how some of the other methods aren't working.
The mind boggles. - NinjAlt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Democracy failure in T-Minus....
- atbnet, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Dugg because this needs to be heard by as many people as possible.
- mark1372, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15PSA: If you voted for Kerry at a Diebold machine and got a chocolate bar and a tiny bottle of rum in return, your vote may not have been registered.
Might get more people to vote though. - ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12BOGUS??? Kryptonite had to recall all their locks cause it was true. They replaced my lock with an $80 one.
- pseudojd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10All the diebold employees I know realize how mindless the company is.
- joeyjojo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11This is a classic example of 'if it ain't broke...'
What was wrong with good old optical scan tallies of paper ballots? Nothing. - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Our democracy failed when somebody came up with the idea of 'corporate lobbying'
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10"This is a classic example of 'if it ain't broke...' What was wrong with good old optical scan tallies of paper ballots? Nothing. "
I'm sorry, were you awake during the 2000 Florida voting controversy? All the talk of how "Bush stole the election"?
It's broke. And it's time to fix it.
It's just that this Diebold ***** is even more broke. - tomboy501, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9...when something is failing so miserably - and on so many levels - as these electronic voting machines, maybe back to basics is the way to go for now.
Diebold doesn't seem very concerned with properly testing and modifying their product as needed and - for reasons beyond any common sense - these bug-and-problem-riddled machines and their systems have been and will continue to be used in real elections. Why? OBKenobi makes a very valid point. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Yeah it is called open source.
Voting is a right owned by the people and we should have the inalienable right to see how it is done.
(for the windows only people, open source does NOT mean easier to hack)
It is a freaken counting program for beegeebus sake, it is almost the second program you make after hello world. I could train my dog how to make a voting program and my dog only knows quick basic.
even the butterfly ballot was posted in the newspaper before the election, so people had the right to complain.. - zelig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7...and I thought chads were the problem.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11whats even more amazing is the neos will be in here, saying you are all whining about losing the last election and to "get over it" etc.
They act like this is a huge liberal herring. The funny thing as it has been suggested before here on digg, is that tech people have a tendacy to be liberal, or atleast all the neos cry that digg is a liberal oasis, simply because people disagree with bush seem to believe that. (i personnlay thing that with bush approval ratings in the 30s that in any public place the people who disagree with bush will have a 2-1 advantage, but apparently digg should represent our equally two party system and not public opinion at large)
You would think then, that they would be the ones screaming to have these things fixed as it is far more likely(or atleast in perception) that a democrat would have the ability to hack the machines - DiScDuCe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is a great article and I commend those who have found these security holes in Diebolds diabolical democratic methods of "securing" our valuable voting / personal data. There really should be some better checks and balances in the creation of these sorts of devices!
- 6pintsofbitter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I cant wait to rig my local machines.
Perot ftw! - FlyboyP, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Prediction: This will not make CNN.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I have a problem with anyone screwing with the election.
But why are you making this a partisan issue.. so it is ok for the machines to be hackible aslong as we prevent dems from hacking them? OK so the dmes slashed some tires and the republicans jammed the phone system of the dems get out the vote.. that has been done for ages and is wrong.. but actually hacking the vote is worse.
Sure dems try to block military abseetee votes , while the republicans try to block minority votes, but it is far worse that either side could actually change those votes.
Nice try trying to turn this into something else.. and maybe we should have poolice protection for "get out the vote vehicles and i would totally support you on that.. but this is about fair elections.. and neither the media, orr 90% of the people in here care if it was dm or republican.
Look at it this way.. it doesnt matter who cheats and wins, but who ever does oviously the majority of the public did NOT want them in office... so why would the MAJORITY be ok with it if it was a dem? oviously they wouldnt.. - kagelump, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Hotel minibars can be opened with jigglers bought online for 12 bux
so this might be much more widespread than the title describes - JonnyTrombone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Voting fraud isn't new (re: the City of Chicago), but this is getting ridiculous!
- iheartcrack, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I don't usually curse on public forums, BUT THIS IS ***** OUTRAGEOUS!!!
http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ - rpeterclark, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6What does opening a lock have to do with Republicans? Seems to me this is a bipartisan issue.
- allatti2d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I hope all the people posting here have also seen this story:
http://digg.com/politics/More_Computer_Voting_Problems_in_Ohio_Diebold_Dismisses_Reports
This is one of the most important immediate issues Americans face right now!!! - elnerdo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'd just like to point out to EVERYONE, despite my mild irrelevance that there are MORE THAN TWO POLITICAL PARTIES. Please, dear GOD, stop voting for the two incarnations of corruption that currently control our government!
Not everything needs to be left or right, red or blue, rep or dem! There IS a middle-freaking-ground! - msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4First, everyone should go read about lockpicking. Google it, go the the library, whatever. Picking most locks only requires 15 dollars in tools and a trivial amount of effort for the rewards it can offer. There are locks that make it more difficult, but if a mechanical key unlocks it, it can usually be picked, shimmed or bypassed in very little time.
Locks only keep out the honest.
Now, for what should be done: Better locks. I know I just said that they can be bypassed, but the harder it is, the more it exludes people that don't have the skill. Monitors or guards. Ballot boxes, voting machines and paper records should all be protected like we protect currency. Also, there needs to be some redundancy in the system to check on those that are doing the protecting and to ensure data integrity.
While electronic systems may mean less money spent on elections (does anyone really care that their tax dollars are spent on this?), it certainly produces more problems and security risks that end up costing us more, especially if they are compromised. - gwinerreniwg, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ merreborn: The issues in Florida were:
+ Some unpunched holes in paper - How to solve? Don't punch holes in paper.
+ Some confused voters ("butterfly ballot" issue) - How to solve? Competant layout designers.
Do any of these problems imply we need some high-tech system that is easy to hack, and hard to audit? No - a 5,000 year-old invention (paper) solves all of these problems, and a few others not mentioned here. - mateo60, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I have an idea, how about we DO NOT USE ELECTRONIC VOTING!
Just a thought. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I've heard of a hacked ATM, just last week....
http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stories/wvec_local_091205_atm_security_code.20a0092.html - mulling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Voting is the only method we have to peacefully transfer power in this country. The operating word here is 'peacefully.'
Rigging the elections is really taking a tiger by the tail. The republicans have used their ill-gained authority to commit so many deplorable acts, and loot so much wealth, that they have a lot to fear when they lose power. Inevitably there will be repercussions for their abuses. Even now when they have the reins, they're still going down as their culture of corruption catches up with them in the courts. Isn't that right, Mr. Abramoff?
There are still ways to transfer power without voting (just ask our friend Augusto Pinochet), they're just not peaceful. Nonetheless, one way or another power will change hands again.
*Grabs popcorn* - ozMP3, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3We need a new voting system. When I vote – I want a receipt to spit out. This receipt should have a number on it where I can go to a website, enter that number, and see who the system says I voted for. If the system shows the wrong vote – many other people will have the wrong vote too.
Right now I’m basically dropping a piece of paper into a box and I have no idea if it’s tabulated correctly or even counted at all. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The voting machine itself is in a sealed booth, so these guys wont see you. We could put a metal detector out front though, make sure you're not bringing in any electronic devices.
- OBDriftwood, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Actually it is just as funny/sad that the liberals act like this activity doesn't happen on both sides. There is just as much voter fraud perpetrated by the Democrats. I think they're just angry that the Republicans started using their playbook.
Doesn't make the Diebold situation any less alarming. But making this a left-right, dem-rep, lib-con thing does no good for anybody.
Paper ballots are the way to go. If you're too stupid to fill in a circle you're too stupid to vote. - ne0shell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Please explain where you see liberal bias in this? It's clear the machines are not secure and the agenda seems to be to steal elections. Is this OK with you as long as they steal elections for conservatives? I, as a conservative find that more and more data comes out about Diebold every week. They should be banned from e-voting, period. They also make ATM's - what's the excuse for the crap security on the voting machines?
- uncool, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5if you're too stupid to fill in a circle, you're stupid enough to vote for bush
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4because they wouldnt want to get caught
and the real point is it doesnt freaken matter whoes pocket they are in or even if it is no pockets.
This has zero to do with losing the 04 election.
I wouldnt care if dems and republicans loved each other.
The point is, not all elections are fair and straight up.. and our elctions are not federalised and often run by political appointees of people actually running for election. Who is to say not one of those thousands of elections will be bogus because of this? I dont care if it is an independant who won. The point is it can be done and it will be done. I may trust every single one of my neighbours, and they could all be good honest peple, but leave a pile of money outside and it will be gone.
One of the irrefutible rules of life: if something can be "gamed" it will be. If there is a way to cheat, someone will find it and cheat. If there is an affordable way a program can be cracked, it will be. - schroeder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The point is that if this system can be tampered with (quite easily from many accounts in various ways) then it should NOT be used, end of story. Don't make this some sort of partisan issue because it's not... it's an issue of security, accountability, and of democracy. There should be no one who doesn't find fault with the voting system. We need hard record of votes and a guarantee that our vote will count. That is NOT too much to ask and I question the motives of anyone who says otherwise.
- NSMike, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4That actually brings up a point I hadn't thought of - It looks like this stuff is easy enough to do that we not only have to worry about elected officials rigging an election, we have to worry about the tech savvy 18-year old down the street who thinks it'd be funny to make all the votes in his district come in for Ross Perot for every office. Pranksters are on that security totem pole too.
- myheaditches, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sure, paper elections have been tampered with for centuries. This means that the replacement should be vastly superior and have no crucial flaws, such as easily getting into the machine. This system is no improvement, unless you're an executive over at Diebold.
- vlurk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yep, a transaction number. It would be perfect. Most citizen could verify that their "transaction" went smoothly and that the result is accurate. A good idea you got, really. :)
- Otto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3How was the Kryptonite lock story "bogus"? You actually can open them with a Bic pen. I've done it. It's freakin' easy.
- Spengler, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6@mark1372
you caught me - not enough coffee today to spot that
but more seriously, while I am in total agreement about the electronic voting firms and the GOP being in bed with each other, I didn't bring it up because I would have thought that the ease of manipulation would scare republicans as well. Seems like they would be concerned about the consequences of sandal-wearing, tree-hugging types manipulating vote counts too ;)
Anyway, no matter how badly we think of our opponents, it seems like electronic voting is a problem for everyone right now. Alas, I guess threats to freedoms and the democratic process aren't very new these days...it just doesn't seem like this sort of thing can be defended from the 'anything goes if you tell me it protects me from terrorists' perspective, so I don't understand why nothing is happening. Guess there is always the business greasing the politicians issue. - ne0shell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2We have a large, bi-partisan number of people on Digg who think these machines need to be scrapped. SO why don't we, as voters, do something about it?
Every time an investigation finds signs of foul play / election fraud etc Diebold and it's attorneys fly into town and the election supervisor finding the problems is immediately fired or forced to resign. In the cases they remain in office they find no voting machine company will sell them equipment and this puts them at odds with Federal regulations requiring them to implement machines under the various Federal programs. Diebold even makes machines which the activist groups agree ARE safe but they don't try to sell them. (The machines are less expensive, provide a paper trail and so far pass security audits).
It's a fact these machines are allowing people to steal elections and we have a lot of evidence they have already put people in office who the citizens did not elect.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org - a great source with tons of documentation and technical resources.
I know there are so many issues people can get involved with and most of us don't have that much time. I invite people to spend an evening reading, doing research and see what you can do. The future of America and the freedom of you, your families and future generations depend on it. Even if you don't have the time to get involved at least do a little reading and donate some money to the good people in various organizations who ARE fighting for you. If you really want to do something good do something for our troops besides putting a Chinese made magnet or flag on your car. Our troops have to pay to fly home in some cases, donating your air miles is a great way to help out. - anchor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2But then the mouth breathers and the old folks will complain about a confusing ballot...
- zweben, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Mark wins.
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