What is Digg?Sponsored by Travelzoo
Take Advantage of Ridiculously Low Holiday Airfares view!
travelzoo.com - Flights $52 and up for Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Year. But move on it now.
244 Comments
- cankillar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+261Keep your wireless open! Then you can pirate stuff and blame other people.
- Vicissidude, on 10/12/2007, -3/+133There is no federal statute that says using a publically available wifi connection is illegal. The laws regarding wireless connections vary by state. The person who wrote this article is trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses. It's probably from an ISP that wants you to think your actions are illegal so they can sell you their services. Heaven forbid people wake up and pool their connections, saving money for themselves instead of the ISPs.
- mNeo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+128FTA: "First off, let's be clear that it's not legal to use your neighbors' WiFi"
So an "Opinion" article on a website makes it illegal to use an open WiFi? To me, if a signal reaches my home, and is open (i.e. doesn't need me to hack / break passwords or any other authentication feature), then I don't see how it is illegal to use that signal.
FTA: "It's a bit analogous to taking a swim in your neighbors' swimming pool when they're away. "
No, it is not ! Swimming into the neighbor's pool means that I am on their property. This is a very silly analogy. In fact, using an open wifi is perhaps closer in nature to overhearing some songs that a neighbor plays loud rather than swimming in his pool. - flag564, on 10/12/2007, -6/+113It's nice to share your network if you know the people using it. A better idea is just to have a wi-fi connection and split the cost with people that live in your building. As long as the people are not hogging the bandwidth or doing something illegal it works great.
But hey, if you leave it open for all, no questions ask, then you are asking for it. - roastedbagel, on 10/12/2007, -7/+75Know that my neighbor keeps it open and unsecure, mind you his signal is "intruding" into MY house? Sucks for them, their ignorance, not mine.
- imikedaman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+62Hell, I'm using my neighbor's wireless right now.
- dawg109, on 10/12/2007, -14/+65When setting up the WiFi and they dont secure it by encryption when they got to that point of installation then they have, in my opinion and my local District Attorney's opinion, conciously decided and set precedent they did not care if it was used by others.
- Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -10/+43Its not illegal. IT CAN NOT be illegal to use a service you are actively INVITED to use. now if you perform some kind of HACK to enter a system you are NOT actively invited into (no matter how simple a hack it might be) then its illegal.
Open wifi is equal to having a NEON sign above your WIDE OPEN front door to your house saying PLEASE come in and a matre dei standing on the side walking urging me in. It would NOT be illegal for me to ENTER your home under those conditions
Its the same with WIFI. That router is ACTIVELY sending out a "Please Come In" message telling you Please come on in and use me. In fact many computers will AUTO connect to such a router without the "ACCESSING" user even being aware of it.
Does not matter if the original owner is aware of this I can not be legally at fault for USING this willing invitation.
Its as simple as turning off "announce" in the router. NOW any entry is forbidden no matter how easy because its like me leaving my door unlocked and thats it. No sign saying come on in.
Just like its MY responsibility to take "basic" precautions to secure my home and not actively invite people in the same applies to the routers.
MOST LIKELY the end result of this is routers will be made defaulting to no announce and the user will have to click I agree to understand what enabling announce signifies.
Either way its not illegal. Quasi moral sure but NOT illegal. - Raian, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36I hate that stupid "unlocked front door" analogy-- the correct analogy is they take a water-hose and shove it in your window, soon your house is covered by their water-hose, they've turned it on, and you decide to use it when you need water.
If you don't want me using your wifi-- stop blasting radio waves into my house *****! - merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24"To not brick my connection at home I used to torrent off the neighbors wi-fi. It must have cost them a ***** ton of money in bandwidth. I wasn't aware it was illegal, although I'm in Canada so it might not be the same."
That may or may not be illegal, but it certainly makes you a huge dick. If you don't want that much traffic on your own network, why the hell would your neighbors? If you want to keep your own connection from becoming saturated, cap the bandwidth your torrent software uses.
Using an open AP to check your email or surf digg is one thing. Using it to download torrents is incredibly self-centered and rude. I leave my AP open. I'll let my neighbors use it as long as they don't suck up my bandwidth. The second they do, I filter their MACs. Yes, they can theoretically evade a MAC block. If someone does, then I'll lock my AP down. - e808, on 10/12/2007, -38/+61"When setting up the WiFi and they dont secure it by encryption when they got to that point of installation then they have, in my opinion and my local District Attorney's opinion, conciously decided and set precedent they did not care if it was used by others."
So if I leave my door unlocked by accident it means that I've decided I don't care if someone else comes into my house? - Akaji, on 10/12/2007, -7/+29Hmm, I wonder if you could make a case that the signal was on your property, and therefore yours to use...
Saying that it's illegal to use an open internet connection is like saying that it's illegal to tune into a neighbor's "private" radio station. Sure, it may be rude, but why the crap would it be illegal!? - TheKillDoctor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22If you want to leave your wireless open but still keep strangers out then name your router "Virus Infected"
- thecompkid, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22Hmm...let's see
...encrypted...
...encrypted...
...encrypted...
...damn, smart neighbors. - Hootyea, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Shaman, although that's funny, your later point is moot.
Unless you comprehensively know how your car works, you're just using it as a big black box. - windwaker, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I logged in just to bury this as inaccurate (and poorly written).
- merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20"So if I leave my door unlocked by accident it means that I've decided I don't care if someone else comes into my house?"
If you leave your door unlocked, and things are stolen from your home, your insurance won't cover it. Same applies to your car.
At any rate, re: the illegality of surfing on your neighbor's wireless: name one time anyone's ever been arrested for doing so. - Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Satellite is different its not an OPEN signal. YOU have to actively "hack" the signal to get usable content. The illegal act was not receiving the satellite signal. The illegal act was HACKING that signal to gain access to its contents. That signal is also not ACTIVELY announced. YOU have to both KNOW about it AND seek it out.
VERY different circumstances. - kiensoy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16I hate people always say "If your neighbor's door is open you will enter to their house?" actually I'm not entering to their house, they are entering to mine, or at least the signal is getting into my house and it is being said that whatever you find it is for you unless someone claims it.
- Nerys, on 10/12/2007, -12/+25"So if I leave my door unlocked by accident it means that I've decided I don't care if someone else comes into my house?"
If you accidentally leave on the NEON please anyone come in sign AND forget to fire the valeah (spelling?) who guides and invites me into your house then YES you have decided you don;t care if someone comes in.
This is NOT a case if your router just being there and me poking around DISCOVERING your otherwise unannounced route and then checking to see if its locked.
This is your ROUTER LOUD AND OPENLY announcing to my COMPUTER HEY I AM OVER HERE I AM UNLOCKED PLEASE LOG INTO ME.
See the difference ?
and Merreborn people HAVE been arrested WRONGLY in my opinion because law enforcement no more understands these routers than there owners do. - kingfelix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16@ch33zm0ng3r
sorry, you're wrong.
'to be' and 'to feel' are both linking verbs connecting the subject with the predicate adjective.
i feel bad.
it seems bad.
the food went bad.
you look bad.
etc.
if you say "i feel badly" that means you are bad at feeling things, physically. i feel bad for you. - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Armchair lawyers, please do not spread information you do not know about. Unless you are aware of the federal, state, and local wifi laws across the United States, DO NOT state unequivocally that they do (or DO NOT) exist.
Right now the legal issue is ambiguous and can be argued one way or another in court based on existing laws regarding unauthorized use of a network. - hbweb500, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15"So if I leave my door unlocked by accident it means that I've decided I don't care if someone else comes into my house?"
The problem is that an unencrypted private network is indiscernible from a free wireless network. How am I supposed to know what the owner intended? Is it a free wifi cafe or an apartment? - sishgupta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14Unencrypted routers are just begging for me to sniff some passwords out.
To those saying keep your routers open, buy two. Leave one open and secure one like an airy fort knox (wpa2).
The open router is good for general surfing for public users, but the locked one should be for just you and for logging into pages, using msn, etc. - Oly701, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11"However, can they tell you're using it? Yes, although only if you decide to download some humongous high-definition movie file while they are trying to surf, too."
Author is a doofus. Sure, the only way to tell if anyone is on my network is if they fill the ***** tubes. Just like the only way to tell if someone doesn't like me is if they hit me in the face with a sledgehammer. - Bigcat1021, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"IT CAN NOT be illegal to use a service you are actively INVITED to use."
Does that go for hookers too? - FlyingLlama, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11so if my neighbor buts his music loud for everyone to hear
am i stealing his music?
no. - ch33zm0ng3r, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15In the sentence "I am bad" the word "bad" is an adjective describing "I" which is a noun. In the sentence "I feel badly" the adverb "badly" describes the verb "feel". Are you sure that you passed English class in grade school?
- NikoKun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Boy you got smart neighbors... XD All mine leave their's open... AND they even left their router's passwords at Default... XD hahaha 'admin'... god thats silly...
- gcnaddict, on 10/12/2007, -6/+15Both of you are unfunny.
- loggia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually, it's not always illegal to use someone else's WiFi. It depends on where you live and what the laws are. You'll notice the article doesn't go into specifics and is very vague. It's called "a bad article."
And you're right, I'm not going into specifics either. But I didn't write an article about it and I didn't Digg it up. - AZTriGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Dvorak's analogy said it best when TWiT had this argument last year. It's not even closen to entering someone's house, even an unlocked house. It's more like I'm standing on the street outside the house, and they pick up the house and drop it on me. That's the thing about wireless networks, they have a tendency to spread outside of your property.
- Fhionnlaoch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Sometimes I feel like putting some WEP on my neighbour's unsecured network, but without telling them.
Although 75% of all routers in my area do have some sort of encryption, so that's quite good IMO. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Sorry it to so long to reply. My neighbor lost power and it took him all day long to get it back on.
- SamsLembas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggybacking_%28internet_access%29#Court_cases
Wikipedia begs to differ. In the US, the worst that has happened is a $250 fine.
The morality of it is another issue. Personally, I will stick with my own network while at home as long as it is working correctly. When on the road, however, I will grab whatever I can and try to not be too mean to their bandwidth. - manx203, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I have a booster on mine (I live in a residential/commercial area) and have it open.
I run '2HotSpot' though (www.2hotspot.com) and make the plans free.
That way I at least know who is using my service and when.
if it gets out of hand I'll just start charging for plans!
2HotSpot is free BTW and completely cool. - m1ss1ontomars, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Well, you shouldn't feel badly just because you've borrowed someone's wifi. What did they do to you, destroy all the sensory neurons in your fingers or something?
The effort to be grammatically correct is obvious, but in this case "bad" is better than "badly". States of being (i.e. answering a question like "How are you today?") require adjectives (such as "bad"), not adverbs (such as "badly"). - foolfromhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@akaji
Dont you rebroadcast a signal into the neighbor's router, thus allowing him to sniff your packets with ease and legality?
I once left a packet sniffer on my network when it was secured and within 2 days, 8 different devices that I did not use tried accessing my network but failed. ( I had 11 signatures out of which 3 logged on succesfully. my PSP and two computers.) - alohatiger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10If the guy next door puts a huge light in his back yard and I sit in my yard at night and read by his light, am I stealing?
Same thing. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7It's not illegal at all, this guy is just making up crap.
Actually in Australia at least, its not illegal to hack into a computer system and use it, unless that computer system specifically displays a message saying otherwise ie no unauthorized access, we sue you. The Cisco course i was in kept bringing it up.
Stealing papers is different as it involves you trespassing on their property, I would assume if the paper landed on the sidewalk then it might be legal to steal it.
@NikoKun:
They have this. The OLPC project has wireless mesh networking 802.11s. Problem is I doubt we will see it in any gadgets over here, I don't think any company is going to decide to use the unusual standard for any devices, especially one thats designed to let other people use your bandwidth. Not sure how 802.11s works if your logging into your own encrypted router, but it probably forwards it the same, would also like to know if existing wifi devices can log into a mesh point like an AP, although I doubt it. - Shaman760, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12I like logging into routers that say NETGEAR or Linksys and changing the SSID to something like "Cows are tasty" or other nonsense. I can hear it now "Honey the WiFi is not working- what is this "Cats peed in my shoe" network?!" If you are going to own the technology, spend a mere 5 minutes learning to use it!
- SamsLembas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I would really like to see the laws about this. When the router responds to a ping from your router and therefor appears on your list of networks, is it not inviting you in?
- raccettura, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Accessing a network without authorization is typically considered illegal by US law.
You don't have to "hack" to fall into this group.
Walking into an office and using a workstation is still "hacking" into a network by legal standards. No you didn't crack a password or anything (it's technically "social engineering")... but it's the same thing at the end of the day.
Consult a real lawyer before screwing yourself.... here's a hint: if your not authorized, your not allowed. - sintaxi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10I recently cancelled my service with my ISP. I now have an ethernet wireless adaptor that feeds my router with my neighbours wireless signal, I then in turn put out my own wireless signal (to let others use) and feed my three computers and xbox. I have no speed issues nor does my neighbour. He is aware of me using his signal and is fine with it. Everyone should leave their sinal open unless they are having bandwidth issues or extra costs. I never put a password on mine when I was paying for it.
- AllenHSmilden, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Having a computer connecting without knowing can be true. The day I bought my Mac mini I didn't yet have a wireless router, and when I was setting it up it asked me if I wanted to register. I was curious to see what would happen knowing it had wifi, so I clicked "yes". Amazingly it connected and registered it didn't even tell me what signal it connected to it just did. After OS X was up and running I saw that indeed it connected to my neighbors connection.
- krached, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Well, many people have a doormat that says "Welcome." Does that mean you can walk in without permission?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11that guy is ***** retarded
its perfectly legal
hes wrong, people have gone to court and won for using open networks
if your on your property, and its transmitting into your house, and its open, its perfectly legal - SamsLembas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Hmmm.... Using the logic in this article, doesn't that mean I can sue them for pinging me ;)
- zhulien, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I wonder what loser dugg me down on my previous post here. If you want to make a publicly avaiable wifi spot, how can people know whether they are legally allowed to connect to it or not?
- radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5You can use mine anytime. I keep it open.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 244 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is