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HD DVD, Blur Ray format war over

gizmodo.com — LG has ended what could have been a long and bloody battle

Who dugg this? Made popular Jan 4, 2007

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  • Petronski, on 10/12/2007, -15/+147Blur-Ray?

    That's as clever as Windoze (meaning, not very).
  • akarpo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+135This thing will cost at least three human souls when it comes out however.

    *Edit. Noticed the title. "Blur Ray"? Haha.
  • ricree, on 10/12/2007, -25/+107Once again, why bother buying either in the first place. DVDs work absolutely fine for me, and I see absolutely no reason to pay a premium for this format. Unlike DVDs, which offered huge advantages over VHS, the benefit of upgrading is minimal. The companies keep telling us that there is a war between Blu-Ray and HD DVD, but as I see it neither is in a clear position to beat out current DVDs.
  • nixonrichard, on 10/12/2007, -6/+50I, personally, am protesting the "war." I consider myself a flower child who simply downloads HD movies and watches them sans-player. As it turns out, that brand new HDTV I bought which craves high-def content also has a VGA input . . . problem solved.
  • rm999, on 10/12/2007, -4/+42It's not over, they just pushed the decision behind. The formats are different enough that burners/media won't be standardized or combined for some time. Also, the politics of the two formats is quite complicated. I think it would be beneficial to everyone if one of formats wins - that is the only way I would call the war "over."
  • OddTSi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+32This will not end the war. In fact it'll do the exact opposite, it will prolong it indefinitely. We'll get the same result as with the DVD-R/+R fiasco.
  • Dalrek, on 10/12/2007, -6/+36HD-DVD has been using the codec from the get-go that Blu-ray is just now switching to... Side-by-side, the two will end up being nearly the exact same, but HD-DVD is ahead in most cases right now. Studios are going back and rereleasing older blu-ray movies on the codec so that the image quality is up to par. The only thing that seperates the two formats are the 20 gigs of space, and personally, no way I could stand that many extras on a disc.

    But instead of all this, I'd rather spend $1-2 more for DVDs that don't have the ads in the beginning. They use to not have them, but now they do. And I'd pay more for those previews to be gone. This would make me happier than any HD format ever could.
  • evilspoons, on 10/12/2007, -3/+28@ricree: As an owner of a 52" 1080p TV set, I can safely say on a large screen the difference between DVD and HD-DVD is the same as going from VHS to DVD on a 27" screen. The amount of additional detail is phenomenal.

    I'm looking forward to a dual-format player with a digital output so I can buy whichever high-definition movie is cheaper (as it is now, there are some titles on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD that are much more expensive on HD-DVD. The same is true in reverse, too.)
  • rm999, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21ricree

    I agreed with you until I bought a 24 inch LCD monitor and a projector. Now the low resolution and compression artifacts are really obvious. The thing is 24 inch LCD monitors and high resolution TVs are gonna plummet in price in the next few years. You will appreciate HD then. Meanwhile, be thankful that people with money to burn are buying expensive equipment to finance the technology like with DVDs 10 years ago :)
  • MyBigRed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19This doesn't end the war but it certainly will force the war out of the main stream. I can foresee HD-DVD vs Blue-Ray going the way of DVD-R vs DVD+R, they will still be competing but to most people the difference will be moot.
  • NeoPlatonist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18I am Jack's total lack of surprise.
  • TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Honestly guys, he does have a point. Blu-ray has deals with 90% of the movie studios, with 50% exclusive to blu-ray. That majority content is going to mean more and more as blu-ray titles increase in ratio exponentially compared to HD DVD. Not only that, hate it all ya want, but Sony has gotten nearly a million and a half blu-ray players in homes currently, by the end of 2007, I'd imagine somewhere around 5-7 million (probably a low estimate, I'm totally pulling a number out my ass) PS3s will be sold. I'll say it once and I'll say it again, the decision to put that blu-ray drive into the PS3 probably won them the HD war, but it lost them the console title to Nintendo, and quite possibly to the 360.

    BUT, winning the HD war will pay dividends...
  • ahawks, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19Millions of them!? WOW! That's amazing considering how the BR drive was one of the major road blocks for the PS3 production, and there are only a few hundred thousand of those out. Not to mention most of them that *did* sell are collecting dust by now due to lack of decent games, or have been returned because no one would buy it at a markup on eBay. Almost any store I go to has at least one PS3 sitting on the shelf all alone like a fat girl on prom night.
  • Petronski, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15CES AND MacWorld. Next week will be very cool.
  • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Look back at GFXwench's comments, every single one sounds like it's written by a Sony rep.
  • Kahnza, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19I personally think that Blu-Ray is going to end up just like BETA. Dead. Because Sony refuses to let go.
  • ezikiel2517, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14I love the unicorn pic
  • heiesuke, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Yes the war may have been stalled with this. But I do think the 2 can coexist for several years till there's another format to come and beg for it's attention. And if you have an HDTV of any real size you're gonna want HD content. Because SD looks like utter crap in comparison.
  • Firehed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@Dalrek - I stopped buying DVDs for that reason. If studios feel the need to advertise (and, God forbid, the unskippable ads and previews), it had better bring down the cost to me. It didn't, so now I only rent or acquire in some other fashion. I can only tolerate so much greed.
  • robman8023, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Misleading title = Bury

    A player that can play both formats doesn't end the war, it prolongs it. Misleading title. For the format war to be over in my mind, one format must have an overwhelming market share.
  • Zippo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Since the non-savvy make up for the majority of the market (by sheer numbers alone), I think HD-DVD will likely win. Consumers are well familiar with the DVD, and most consumers understand what HD is. So, the name in itself is easy for most people to understand - it's a High Definition DVD. Not to mention it's backed by Microsoft, which like it or not, controls the majority of the PC market, not to mention a large share of the video game industry too.

    And with the failure of Betamax, Minidisc (well, it did great in Japan), and now UMD, Sony doesn't exactly have a great track-record.
  • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9GFXwench, you've seriously past the point of spamming. You already made the same comment on this story, just worded differently.
  • chickendud, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I love january because of CES. So much tech excitement in the next 2 weeks. Anyone going to be there?
  • PurpleSfinx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8@ People talking about advertising at the start of DVDs: I totally agree. I don't pirate stuff normally but as soon as someone decides that even if I pay I still have to see ads, I feel like taking my cut of the advertising revenue, which brings the movie/game/music/whatever down to a convenient $0.00 .

    Hey, it works with TV.

    edit: WTF? No backslashes allowed?
  • padfoot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7MyBigRed did say that for most (emphasize most) people, the difference is moot. And for most people it is.
    Next time you are in a shop just randomly ask someone if they know about DVD-R and DVD+R. Chances are you will get a blank response until you say something along the lines of "blank DVDs".

    I think MyBigRed has a very valid point.. the difference will be moot..
  • TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7My thoughts exactly. Everyone, from media conglomerates, TV corporations, movie studios, and of course us, want this war over. And the only way for that to happen is for a format to emerge as the majority leader, and gain momentum so the whole market can rally behind it. This is what we *do not* want to see. If we pander to both sides the war will rage on, and we'll continue to get sick of it.
  • xenovis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10@GfxWench/fanboy
    Repost:
    Currently HD DVD is just a little ahead of Blu-ray in terms of distribution and total unit sales penetration(movies). Given that Blu-ray can indeed hold more data, this does not prove useful for movie playback given the playback length. Given current compression standards most HD DVD movies are 1080p on disk, and HD DVD offers between 6 to 7 hours of full 1080p with full audio optioned playback. I don’t personally see a need for more storage when it comes to movies given that current movies are around 2.5 hours, this leaves plenty of room for extras. Also Blu-ray requires new stamp machines in order to produce due to the smaller data layer and protection coating on each disc, this requires all DVD production houses to purchase new machines, HD DVD can be pressed with the current DVD stamp machines at no increased cost. This fact has not hurt Blu-ray yet, but HD DVD’s are scheduled for a price reduction by mid 2007 (around the same time LotR is rumored to arrive on HD DVD from New Line), this is a price reduction that Blu-ray makers cannot follow. After summer '07 Blu-ray discs will be more expensive to the buyer by as much as 10 dollars, for exactly the same movie, in exactly the same resolution, with exactly the same features. This is where I see HD DVD make a significant leap ahead of Blu-ray, in terms of market penetration, that movie studios will most definitely take note of. Time will tell, but given the current trend I see Blu-ray following Sony’s other failed formats: Betamax, MiniDisc, MMCD, MicroMV, Memory Stick/MSM, and UMD.
  • scairborn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7One DVD Player to rule them all...
  • aepex, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7How does this end the "format war"? All this new machine will do is offer an expensive compromise.
  • HappyScrappy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Buried for taking a whack at BluRay in the title.

    Note, combo devices are still against the BluRay license agreement. This device is most likely not to be released.
  • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8you can get 1080p over component.
  • g3r4, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7So new tech isn't worth it because of *****? So you're not getting a one of the new consoles? Because there's a bunch of ***** about those.

    And the death of Sony thing sorta undermines "I don't give a ***** about HD-DVD either", so don't even attempt to cover your stupid hating ass. Did you ever even give a reason for Blue Ray being "Sony's proprietary *****". As GFxWench stated, not exactly proprietary. And what makes Blue Ray *****? Just that it's proprietary (which it isn't)?
  • Chordonblue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think Blu-Ray will end up being the defacto standard in archiving simply because of it's 50 GB size, whereas HD-DVD will capture the home market because it's cheaper to manufacture (at all levels), and has just enough storage to make it worth an HD consumer's while. Remember the digital audio cassette? How about DAT? DAT ended up being more of a data format than an audio one - although it has been used for that purpose also.

    It's just the CD ended up being 'good enough'. No doubt the quality of more recent types of music may have played a role... :) {snark}
  • generalleoff, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5People need to stop arguing it will be expensive. It's obvious it's going to be expensive but it's also obvious that as the players sell and production problems get worked out and competing electronics firms market competing players he price will be forced down. By around 2010, 11 players like this should be common and affordable.

    One of the worlds first DVD-/+R compatible DVD burners was the SONY DRU-500A and it could cost upwards of $500 when it was new. 4-5 years later you could get comparable burners from better manufacturers for $150 or less and many of them now include DL support in the mix. The exact same thing is going to eventually happen with HD-DVD/Blu-Ray. In fact odds are the new players will also support all the past DVD formats as well which will render the "I don't want to be forced to replace my DVD collection" argument rather useless. I have no plans of replacing my DVD collection but I do have plans of eventually buying the new formats.

    People also need to stop expecting things to happen over night. It took DVD 4/5 years to over take VHS and nearly 10 years to put VHS in a state where it could be considered dead. Even though VHS is still not dead and never will be truly dead. We where already hearing people bitch Blu-Ray was dead because it was not selling better then HD-DVD 24 hours after it launched and crap like that. It's stupid.
  • oobuntu, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6agreed - its annoying to have to RTA - the title could have or sub-text should have been "LG Makes First Blu-ray/HD DVD Dual-Format Player"
  • Robomonkey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Well, I wouldn't say that it's over, the format war is just going to be longer now.
  • lordfoul, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sure be nice to have a dual format support. I'd be safe to adopt my format of choice now or hold out for the price I wanna pay which would come sooner.
  • soapycub, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7@MyBigRed

    Considering the vastly superior error correcting that DVD+R has over DVD-R, the difference is hardly moot.

    DVD-R for compatibility, sure. But if you're serious about backing up your data to DVD media, then DVD+R is the smarter choice.
  • Zer0kill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5This is only going to drag out the format "war". Because now the film companies will still be producing DVDs for either hd-dvd or blue-ray. Until all the companies all go to one format all we will hear is blah, blah, blah, hd-dvd is better, no blue-ray is better.
  • BT1000101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Edit: To clarify, I don't give a ***** about HD-DVD either. I will stick with regular DVDs until they become unavailable. The higher quality just isn't worth all the extra BS to me."

    How the ***** do you think your DVD's got so cheap? It certainly wasn't because of consumer apathy!
  • mrops, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8@ricree

    I find it amusing that a lot of people compare DVD to these new formats in terms of quality. Although I don't have either players and probably wont for some time, I do get HD signal from my cable provider. I also happen to have a 1080p projector on a 100" screen. I agree not everyone has this setup, but DVD look like those early days CGA displays compared to a HD signal on my 100" screen, blurry and bad.

    I might even get a HD-DVD drive for my MythTV setup if it wasn't for the crappy DRM *****.

    Everytime I hear that DVD is almost as good as these newer formats, it reminds me of the sour-grapes story. argh.

    Please stop saying there is no noticeable difference in DVD at 576p at its best and a 1080p signal. 640x480 is not as good as 800x600 or higher resolutions.

    Now I am done with my rant, but before taking anyone's word, please go check a real HD signal on a big screen. Further, I don't think the difference is that noticeable on small screen of 50 inch or less.

  • munkyxtc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3dude, get your story straight; you can watch HD DVD's in 1080p; I do it all he time in my $200 player. -- Sure I had to buy a $400 360 over a year ago to even the cost in the end, but it sure as hell is easier to eat the cost overtime rather than selling a kidney to pickup a PS3. Plus you have to spend an xtra $99 buying cables to get true 1080p out of your PS3.

    Also, in response to comment earlier about 1.5 PS3's being out there; they sold far less than that according to market estimates after the holiday season. In fact in many markets shipments of PS3's are sitting on store shelves not selling. That's not 'getting blu-ray into houses' --

    If I can get comparitively good picture from both formats; who are the consumers going to choose? Somone who offers an add-on for $200 or standalone player for $479; or a format that costs $600 for a console, or $899 for a standalone player? Practically same quality; 50% of the cost, it's pretty easy to figure consumers will migrate to the HD DVD farm over time.
  • LavaHot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Stop yelling! I'm trying not to wake my folks up, but you aren't making it easy!
  • stevieB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Totally inaccurate title. Typical.
  • tngilmore, on 10/12/2007, -9/+12-1 for using "comparo"
  • there, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Putting aside the VHS/Beta rehash here is the biggest reason of all not to buy yet. (at least from a computer standpoint)

    Blue-ray burner@599 of not particularly fast or useful storage
    Blu-ray 25GB disk @$19.99 = $0.80/GB of not very reliable media (not including the initial 600 bucks either I might add)
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2665668&CatId=2537
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2528108&CatId=2305

    Hitachi 320 GB HD@79.99= $0.25/GB of very reliable and very fast Sata300 storage (and even rewritable)
    http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2573810&Sku=TSD-320H

    Maybe it might make sense to a few videophiles with money to burn that need to run movies at 1080p but for the rest of us DVDs are going to be around for a long time before changing makes remote economic sense. Even the LG is a waste of money until the price of these units and disks drop dramatically. Doesn't make economic sense to touch any one of these units until they drop under $100 bucks and disks are under a buck. (Could be 2-3 more years).

  • jmdajr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3about f'ing time
  • EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"If only one wins...that is called a monopoly. This means that there is no competitive pricing. Movies (and blank discs) will be even more expensive than before."

    It might be a monopoly, but that's really not such a bad thing in this case. If a studio releases a movie on two formats it's not going to result in a cheaper price--they're not going to compete on price with themselves. Competition between movies and studios does tend to keep prices down, however--If I have a choice between two movies and one is more expensive, I'm less likely to buy that disc. It's no different from the CD and DVD formats today. A bigger issue is price fixing and other predatory tactics.
  • MScrip, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3This new war is not exactly the same at the DVD +/- war.

    There was only one DVD movie format... the DVD.

    But, there were many recordable DVDs... DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW and DVD-RAM.

    +/- only affected people buying blank discs... not for people choosing movies to buy or rent.
  • BT1000101, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"As for movies, upscaled DVD's on any actually decent HD set looks fine from where I'm sitting."

    Upscaling cannot fix the fact that DVD's do not have adequate bandwidth. Color banding and poor reproduction of fast motion and slower transitions from dark to light can only be fixed by Hi-Def formats, like Blu-Ray discs.
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