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Gamers Love their PS3s but the 'Hate' the Blu-Ray Feature

extremetech.com — Gamers love Sony Corp.'s new PlayStation 3 for its graphic capabilities and firepower, but the advanced Blu-ray DVD drive is annoying some by raising the cost, slowing production and forcing them to buy into a format they've not yet aligned with

Who dugg this? Made popular Dec 9, 2006

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  • merreborn, on 10/12/2007, -5/+61HD DVD is 15 gig per layer, blu ray is 25 gig per layer, and they're both shipping dual layer media -- 30 and 50 gig respectively. As such, blu-ray has unarguably higher capacity.
  • robustyoungsoul, on 10/12/2007, -12/+61I love my Betamax. Love didn't save it.
  • VeryAngryJim, on 10/12/2007, -24/+67I personally like that I was given the OPTION with the add-on to the xbox360 rather than being forced with the PS3, but hey that's just me.
  • vhold, on 10/12/2007, -2/+33"Yeah...because the games that come out for PS3 are definitely going to fill up all that space!"

    Yea, I remember when 1.44mb floppies I came out and most games were still around 200k.. I was like.. dang.. I can put hella games on one of these.

    A gigabyte was incomprehensible.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+31Obviously someone is buying the damn things.
  • flipkid, on 10/12/2007, -54/+83Personally I'm a gamer but at the same time I like to watch/listen to my media. I bought the PS3 and kept it because of it's gaming capabilities and also for the Blu-ray aspect of the console.

    Prior to buying the PS3 I would read reviews of the quality of Blu-ray, and having been able to test it out first hand it IS a huge factor with the PS3. The quality of the movies is amazing with Blu-ray (as I'm sure it is with HD-DVD as well). As I read somewhere before, going from standard DVDs to Blu-ray is like going from VHS to DVD. The quality is just that good, it's lke putting on a new pair of glasses.

    As for the whole "format war" with Blu-ray and HD-DVD, I opted to go with Blu-ray because of the capacity of the media. Having almost double the storage capacity of HD-DVD is going to be a plus with both the games and the movies.

    Another plus with how Sony incorporated the Blu-ray player in the PS3 is that it allows games to be produced without having to worry about a lower limit of GB's.

    So as a gamer, I love my PS3 and I ALSO love the Blu-ray feature.
  • sdwilly, on 10/12/2007, -7/+31@joaob

    Can you please clarify that? There are several 50GB BR movies already released.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+29Except that the DVD player had been widely adopted by the time of the PS2 release.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -12/+33Ah here we go, exerpt from Kotaku:

    "Blu-Ray might have its perks, but loading times aren't one of them. Compared to the 360's 12x DVD drive, transferring speeds at 16MB/second, the PS3's Blu-Ray drive limps along at 2x speed, transferring at 9MB/second."

    Sorry I keep posting in my own comments.
  • tastypastry, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26I don't get why people keep complaining that they are forced into a format. Even if Blu-Ray fails the format war its still a good medium for games. Thats like saying Nintendo is forcing a format on me with those small DS cartridges.
  • Muyoso, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20And what color ray was the DVD competing against at that time? Was that the infamous Grey-Ray I heard so much about?
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24forcing them to buy a format? i don't recall buying bluray movies being mandatory, regardless of what you own
  • sdwilly, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17@Gottschalk,

    Could you please provide a link to a triple layered HD-DVD, I've seen press releases about quad layered BR, but haven't seen anything about a triple layered HD.

  • tendonut, on 10/12/2007, -11/+23"As I read somewhere before, going from standard DVDs to Blu-ray is like going from VHS to DVD"

    That may be true, but unlike the move from VHS to DVD, you don't need a $1,500 TV to actually see the difference. It was significantly noticeable on just about every TV out there when DVD came to town.

    I personally am a fan of how Microsoft made it an optional add-on to have HD-DVD. No games even come close to needing to use the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD formats. So as we stand today, the Blu-Ray player and the HD-DVD drive are purely for movie purposes. I, not having an HDTV (YET!), would have bought a PS3 (If I wanted it) without the Blu-Ray drive if that was an option. I'd be saving $200 (I assume) and I would never notice the difference. Then, down the line, when I get an HDTV and Microsoft/Sony decide to start using Blu-Ray/HD-DVD discs to store game content, then I would not hesitate in going out and picking one up, which by then, would be drastically cheaper than the HD-DVD drive is now.
  • citrusfizz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14please stop smoking crack.. thanks
  • loof, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15DVDs didn't have any competition like Blu-Ray does and most people already had DVDs and players. It was like including a cd player in a car.
  • fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13IIRC Blu-Ray has a constant speed across the whole disc, both layers, but the the 12x DVD speed on the 360 is only for part of the 1st layer.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@Gottschalk

    I have to correct a couple of your points.

    "HD-DVD drives can play regular DVDs and usually can upconvert regular DVDs whereas BD players do not."

    Wrong. The Samsung BD-P1000 upconverts DVDs to 1080p. It is purely up to the player maker whether or not to add this feature; you are probably thinking of the PS3, which is reportedly not offering this feature.

    "HD-DVDs come with an HD-DVD and DVD side to guard against obsolescence (BD does not)."

    Only select HD-DVDs do this, the majority do not. And when they do this, they lose an available HD-DVD layer, making the HD space available only 15GB.
  • punisher18, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12eh i bought more movies when i got my hands on the ps3 at launch, i really like the fact i do have the player, my only gripe is with this format war crap there isnt such a huge difference between formats or even the past generation of regular dvds. if anything whats going to be the deciding factor in who wins is support and availibility for each format.
  • EuphopiaB, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Ok, people need to STOP burying this dude just because he likes his PS3! He made a good post and he likes the Playstation and the Blu-Ray. He made valid post with his honest opinion. We shouldn't condemn that.
  • sdwilly, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10With just a quick search you can find this on 50GB media and titles, doesn't seem to be an issue.

    http://news.sel.sony.com/en/press_room/b2b/media_app_systems/release/24099.html

    http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-06-2006/0004447106&EDATE

    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/hdformats/highdefreleases.html#bluray

  • aegis9975, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10>>Toshiba Unveils 45GB HD DVD-ROM Disc and Double-Sided Hybrid Disc

    Yes, but those triple layer HD-DVDs aren't compatible with any player released.

    If you want to make that sort of comparison:
    200GB quadrapole-layer Blu-ray have already been shown. . .

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2011200,00.asp
  • inpHilltr8r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"Yeah...because the games that come out for PS3 are definitely going to fill up all that space!"

    God of War for PS2 filled a dual layer DVD. Blue Dragon for 360 comes on 3 DVDs.
  • loof, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Blu-ray is not a needed feature. Considering xbox360 uses dvds and most games are ported to both systems I'd say the majority of games aren't using all that extra space.

    Those small DS carts don't add an extra 200 bucks to the price.
  • Gottschalk, on 10/12/2007, -14/+21HD-DVD can have triple layers. 15 gigs per layer times 3 layers = 45 gigs. BD currently can do dual layer with 25 gigs a layer so they have 50 gigs worth.

    BD might be able to do triple layering but Sony has not said so as far as I know. Either way there is a lot more to it than storage or BD would have won already.

    HD-DVD drives can play regular DVDs and usually can upconvert regular DVDs whereas BD players do not. BD players are about twice as expensive as HD-DVD players. HD-DVDs come with an HD-DVD and DVD side to guard against obsolescence (BD does not). HD-DVD can output in 1080p (and all HD-DVD movies are encoded in 1080p) but I do not think any HD-DVD player outputs 1080p yet (they output 1080i). HD-DVD players will output in 1080p soon though. BD handles 1080p from start to finish.

    So largely the issues is BD has more space but is more expensive. HD-DVD (as a whole system player and media) has a lot of backwards compatibility built in at a lower cost.
  • endekks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Man.... I am so glad I have been told what to think. I guess since I gamer I now have to hate my BR player.

    And that sucks, as I thought I was enjoying it. Oh well.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7But it's not like Blu-Ray does not have value to gamers, as it ads more storgae for games.

    HD-DVD has no value to games on the 360, because games cannot use it.

    Note that no actual owners of the PS3 were quoted in the article, just "general comments in blogs and forums". That means you. Just because the people hating on Sony have been the loudest, does not make them right.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You can complain about the high price of the PS3 being a problem for Sony the day a unit sits on a shelf longer than ten seconds. Then we'll see how the price really affects things. Until now what the price has done is cause a lot of whining, but no actual loss of sales.

    That is what the article said as well - that basically there is a lot of grumbling on internet forums. Yet we all know how fickle the internet forums are, all it takes is a game or two like Ico on the PS3 and then you'll not be able to swing a cat without hitting a PS3 owner.
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I was not aware of the double-layer double-sided disc, so my comment about hybrid HD-DVD's remaining space is no longer true. I just looked it up, and the new Superman Returns HD-DVD is using that technology.

    I apologize for the error, I didn't make it in time to edit my previous comment with the new info.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You don't have to spend $600 on a game system, the base PS3 is $500! The only thing $600 offers really is WiFi - since the HD is user replacable I'd rather buy the cheaper model anyway, replace the HD with a 120GB model, and then use the gigabit ethernet connection on the back to hook into my main network.

    $500 is only $100 more than the preimum 360, and includes everything the 360 does - plus free match play, unlike the 360 where I have to buy Live to get the same features.
  • EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@sakuraz: You know about the difference between DivX and DIVX right?

    Wikipedia: DIVX was a rental format variation on the DVD player in which a customer would buy a DIVX disc (similar to a DVD) at a low cost, which would be able to be freely viewed up to 48 hours from its initial viewing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX
  • TheXeno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I'm buying the PS3 because of Blu-ray.
  • Ashkc88, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10@tendonut
    No, the PS3 games are installed onto the harddrive, the 360 HDD only keeps save files and achievement data on the harddrive. Although that isn't the case. The DVD drive in the 360 is 12x and the Blu-ray drive is 2x (as dainbramage559 said). Supposivly, as I have heard, the 360 DVD Drive is faster...when reading data on the outside ring of the disk, and as it gets towards the center it reads slower, making the disk drives about equal. Although I'm not sure, someone correct me if I am wrong.

    Edit: I'm a slow typer, fantasticFlan beat me to it =(
  • coheedcollapse, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Actually Mandeep, if we're going to be Fickle, many of the games on the PS3 have already broken the DVD barrier in size (confirmed by multiple dumps into Linux). Sure this might be because they're uncompressed (I'm pretty positive Resistance could have fit on a normal DVD), but it sort of renders your point invalid.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Again, the Blu-Ray player is also used for games so Sony IS doing something for the customers, they think the extra storage will be useful for games - and it is already being used by games, even the launch titles.

    Companies are releasing movies on both formats - but more studios are releasing on Blu-Ray, and most of the ones with really impressive titles are also on Blu-Ray (like Disney, meaning Pixar). Which are you going to want to watch in HD - The Incredibles, or Shark Tale?

    Do you wonder why so many studios are going with Blu-Ray? It's exactly because Sony was willing to commit to the format, and actually put a player in every unit. So the market for Blu-Ray has a natural outlet to grow, instead of the uphill battle HD-DVD faces to convince players they should buy a standalone unit, or a $200 player that adds nothing to the gaming expereince on the 360. If both companies had had seperate drives then actually, I think HD-DVD might have had a chance (perhaps even a better chance) because the outcome would be more murky and some of the advanatges of HD-DVD would have some weight. But with the sales of HDTV sets constantly rising, combined with the name recognition of Sony (to real consumers still a great brand name) and a single device that does games AND HD video, PS3 sales should do rather well and the market for Blu-Ray should keep rising rather steadily. I know a lot of people just waiting to get one, when they are actualy around in greater numbers - myself included!
  • wetdirtmud, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9It's /my/ sexbox, and her name is SONY.
  • zetsurin, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"That may be true, but unlike the move from VHS to DVD, you don't need a $1,500 TV to actually see the difference."

    Oh how quickly we forget. I was a very early adopter when DVD came out and my first player was over $1000 and was one of the cheaper ones on the market at the time. This is exactly the same as before, and all costs of entry will lower as critical mass is reached.
  • TheMrEman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I'm surprised how quickly this argument has turned on itself. Where (as once predicted) are all the people (gamers and non-gamers alike) lining up for a PS3 b/c it's a $600 Blu-ray player? (when most other models are $1000...although, a quick sweep of amazon proves the Samsung model just dropped from 899 to 599, so maybe that's why...)
  • inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Whatever the outcome, the consumer who waits will win here. Myself, I am holding onto my SDTV and playing wii on it and watching DVD's on my Philips DVP642 which I got for very cheap.

    In a couple years, I will have an HDTV that is nicer than the ones that everyone else who buys now has, and I will have spent a whole lot less for it. As well, my HD-format player (whether HD-DVD or Blu-Ray) will have been bought for several hundreds less than what all these early adopters are paying.
  • h4xx3d, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8I finally managed to get my hands on a PS3 the other day. I already have a 360 and have a friend with the HD Dvd addon and have seen it in action. I must say, the PS3 is just incredible. The bluray discs load incredibly fast and the system remains almost 100% silent throughout everything. For media enthusiasts, the best option is clearly the PS3. The 360 with HD addon is incredibly loud.. it's whirring can be heard at all times, except very loud portions in movies. And this is with a high end bose system turned up quite high.

    Incorporating the blu-ray drive directly into the system has been terrible from a production standpoint. But once those issues are resolved, I think people are going to be quite pleased by it's addition. It makes a very sexy, capable system that much more incredible. And to those saying that no games will make use of the high capacity, back when it was the PSX versus the N64, N64 devs had very limited space, PSX devs a ton more with one cd and they even found that this was not enough... If the space is there, they will fill it.
  • Gottschalk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@cgeorge

    Thanks for correcting me about BD players and DVD playback/upconversion.
  • Gottschalk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11@sdwilly

    Toshiba Unveils 45GB HD DVD-ROM Disc and Double-Sided Hybrid Disc
    http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_05/pr1002.htm

    Also could people please explain why my above post is being dugg down. It contains accurate information as far as I know. If you find something inaccurate please post it and don't just digg it down.

    Digging something down should be used to remove spam primarily or remarks that are contrary to a good discussion. I'm just trying to add the information that I know to the discussion.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I am holding off buying a PS3 until I can find one at reatail somewhat easily - but I am buying one, and partly I am buying it for the Blu-Ray support for movies.

    As a gamer though I'm also buying it for the amazing worlds that more storage will allow - more textures, more content, more special features. As noted some games today already break the DVD barrier and that's only going to become more common as time goes by. Sure you can split games across multiple DVD's, but that forces a plotline that is more linear so you won't be switching discs all the time.

    Sure some companies will fill that extra space with nothing very useful, but all it takes is a few great companies to make use of the added space and you can have something special. Just imagine what the makers of Ico and Shadow of the Collusus will do with this giant amount of space availaible.
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@joaob: In two to three years, the games should be graphically simialr across both systems...

    Except the presence of Blu-Ray will allow PS3 games to have more (or more complex) textures.
  • DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Also Sony supported CDs and they certainly didn't flop, although they don't exactly have a good history with pushing out their own media formats.
  • uberism, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Yeah, avid movie watchers would shell out $1000
  • superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Which is offset by every PS3 having a hard drive, unlike the 360. And if you read above, you'll realize that the PS3 transfer rate is constant while the 360 transfer rate varies (and gets slower) as you get close to the center of the disc.

    So if you are willing to not even use the whole space a DVD offers, you get a good transfer rate. Meanwhile PS3 developers are free to use 25-50GB as they see fit, and cache what they like on disc.
  • triplehelix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Gottschalk

    i thought maybe you just had one tidbit wrong about this whole blu-ray v. hd-dvd thing but now i'm seeing that you'll be well served doing some more reading before you jump into the discussion.

    as i stated above, the triple layer hd-dvd's 45gb is theoretical max, so to be accurate you should compare it to blu-rays 200gb theoretical max which it was designed for from the beginning, unlike hd-dvd's slap a third layer and make people flip their disks after market answer.

    your also a little confused about hardware behind both these technologies. they BOTH use blue lasers, where DVD's and CD's use red lasers. either hd-dvd or blu-ray drives/players can have the ability to play CD's and DVD's by simply adding a now cheap red laser.

    and really which drive would you rather in your computer? one that you can buy 15, 30 and 45 gig disks for, or one that you could buy 25, 50, and 200 gig disks for?
  • Gottschalk, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9I don't think it makes sense to compare PS3 launch titles to 350 launch titles. A person should look at what is available to them today and in the future.

    It has been known for quite some time that the PS3 is not going to have much of a graphical advantage over the 360. I don't know why people waste time with comparisons. The specs tell you that the two will be very close, always.
  • EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3While a $600 Blu-Ray player might sound good in theory when other players are $1,000, most people aren't really interested at that price. DVD players, for example, didn't really take off till the price dropped below $200.
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