What is Digg?118 Comments
- stuffhappens, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"Since there's no electron gun, there's no need for the "scanning" process of building an image line-by-line"
>>Unless you direct drive each pixel simultaneously (possible but more costly, complicated electronics - maybe too expensive for domestic goods), then you're going to need some form of sequential or grid (X-Y axis)-based drive system so there will possibly be some scanning method involved.
"no need for the conventional CRT refresh rate"
>> Well, those electron emitters will need turning on/off and how this is done will depend on whether the drive electronics latch them in one state or another until a change is required OR whether you just trigger each one with a pulse as required. In any case, you will need to consider how brightness is achieved - almost certainly by varying the pulse width of the drive to the emitters (varying the on/off time ratio) and so there will be quite a lot of things happening on a cyclic basis. If the emitters are direct driven then you will need to determine how much time is devoted to driving each one - too quickly and the 'on' period will not produce sufficient emission and so the resulting 'glow' will be too dim. Too slowly and you have a display that will not react quickly to motion and you're back to LCD-type ghosting.
"For the record, ghosting is a signal problem not a display problem. It happens on CRTs too."
>> LCD ghosting is the 'smear' in the image caused by the display not being able to react quickly enough to fast changing images - say a racing car moving left-to-right on the display - and so there is a faint 'after-image' of the object behind their current position. That does not happen on CRTs to any extent that it is generally noticeable - unless you have a TV made using a green, long-persistence phosphor, WWII radar CRT!!
This looks like a useful technology - probably at generally reasonable consumer prices perhaps 3-5 years after launch.
Why yes, I AM an electronics engineer with experience of visual systems (flight simulators, as it happens) - daverman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5There are two major reasons that SEDs appear to be promising for large, high-end displays: GAMUT and CONTRAST; and two minor reasons: VIEWING ANGLE and LIFE EXPECTANCY.
The color gamut (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut) of an LCD is poor compared to the CRT, mainly due to its backlight. This means that a CRT can display a wider range of colors than your typical LCD. However, wide-gamut LED backlights are now becoming available on very high-end LCDs (http://tinyurl.com/6brwz)
The contrast of an LCD is also much more limited compared to CRTs, especially due to the backlight bleed-through when showing dark colors. CRTs do not suffer from this problem.
The issue of viewing angle is solved with Plasma displays, but all current thin-screen display technologies (LCD, plasma, DLP if you count that) suffer from short lifespans. SEDs have the potential of having the same long life as CRTs, unless they can't fix the emitter erosion problem.
And one final factor: price. Due to the potential ease of manufacture of SEDs, very large displays can be made at much lower cost than with any other technology. Of course manufacturers are going to keep prices inflated for as long as possible, so don't hold your breath. - jmichaelg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Want to see a dead SED pixel? Go to page 16 of this pdf. The pdf shows the kinds of problem Canon is dealing with in bringing the units to market.
http://www.txstate.edu/NAC/documents/TexasSIDXie.pdf
This patent describes how Canon actually makes the screens:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220030071562%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20030071562&RS=DN/20030071562
To those upset about the high initial prices, realize people have been working on this for close to 20 years without having a salable product. R&D costs lots of bucks, the kind of bucks not available to those corporations that worry more about quarterly results rather than having new product to sell. Finding an American CEO who would trust his R&D dept to work on something for 20 years is like looking for a snark. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Some people prefer SED, but I'm an AWK user myself.
- xianpryde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wow, this is totally cool. Almost hard to believe that nobody thought of this before. Since there's no electron gun, there's no need for the "scanning" process of building an image line-by-line, and thus the image can be as rock-steady as an LCD. Thus, no need for the conventional CRT refresh rate. I wonder what the effective refresh rate/millisecond response time for such a display is?
- Mousse, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Too bad it still shares one downfall with LCD monitors: a native resolution.
Not too good for gaming :( - Refrag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2xianpryde, SED does scan the screen. Why? Who knows, but here is the proof:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/08/sed-up-close-and-personal/ - rmassie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5For the record, ghosting is a signal problem not a display problem. It happens on CRTs too.
- MilenkoD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Robbert Heron on dl.tv says end of 2006 "possibly". Looks like feedback from CES is mid-2007 until we see this mainstream.
- puffarthur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I am REALLY looking forward to SEDs. Here's to hoping Canon and Toshiba don't go nuts with the price gouging so I can afford it.
- manicarzo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You're telling me I get ghosting @ 800x600 150hz refresh? Nice try.
- menos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I can't remember where I heard it but I think it was during the CES coverage. They were talking about a 52" SED screen being in the $500-$750 range. Apparently the production process is pretty darn cheap.
- Bytor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Zero plans for SED computer monitor.
The first application will be home theater screens larger than 40" of which there won't be many initially and they will be very expensive. Computer monitor SEDs are not even on the horizon.
Don't wait for this as your next monitor or you will be waiting a long time. I am waiting for the next price drop on that 24" Dell. LCD/CRT is going to be the only choice for years.
- estacado, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It has been talked about for years. It was supposed to be THE THING to have in 2005. But up to today, haven't even seen a single unit launched.
- Sirocco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This also means the end of things like bad convergence and periodic 'whining' at certain frequencies.
- Mousse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Refraq
You need to get a better CRT, buddy - Rage321, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0+Digg. If the price is right, I'll be +purchasing as well.
- adam98971, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wow great post DIGG FO U
- SVPirate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That's one of those "now why didn't I think of that!" stupidly simple but totally radical ideas. Very neat. I'd love to know how they fight off the gausse on that many eletron guns though ;)
- Zerocool.956, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I hope they are cheaper than LCD's cause i really need a flat panel monitor.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0so many haters here. sounds like panel envy.
- Kohath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0ghosting is an old analog signal problem on CRTs caused by poor cabling and/or multi-path OTA signals
ghosting is ALSO a new problem on LCDs with slow refresh rates. Moving objects move faster than the LCD's refresh rate can update the image.
They are completely different. But they're both called ghosting. - madmathmatician, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I've been holding off on buying an LCD. I think ill just let it pass me by and get an SED."
DITTO!
Definitly a better alternative to plasma and liquid crystal! Of course i'll probably have to wait awhile more for it to get cheap. - xbw_shane, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0hopefully when these come out all the LCD and Plasma televisions will drastically drop in price and we can then finally afford them :D
- Chtiwi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0FED & SED Monitors; New technology 2009 : http://www.xcess.info/fed_sed_monitors_new_technology_2009_aen.aspx
- Skeezicks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Interesting. I noticed there was no mention about this technology being cheaper than LCD/Plasma displays. I'm guessing this too, will be out of the price range of most people.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Wow, this is totally cool. Almost hard to believe that nobody thought of this before. Since there's no electron gun, there's no need for the "scanning" process of building an image line-by-line, and thus the image can be as rock-steady as an LCD. Thus, no need for the conventional CRT refresh rate. I wonder what the effective refresh rate/millisecond response time for such a display is?"
I was thinking almost the same thing. First thing that popped into my head was "the refresh rate has got to be SICK!" :D - vernsan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wonder how thick the panel is going to be for a 19". It'd be cool if it was just like LCD panel dimensions.
- sparkmonkeyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this is sick. and LCDs arent that bad. you guys complain but you only notice the slightly worse resolutions when you are complaining and thinking about it. CRTs are better and maybee this will get some of you fags to shut up
- Skeezicks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Vapor... 2009? This story is over a year old already the the link is gone. Being the best does not mean anything if you don't have a competing product on the market today. LCD and plasma displays continue to improve and prices continue to drop. By 2009 SED/FED will just be another huh? on the radar screen. It may have a nitch market in business, medical, industrial equipment, but not in the home.
JMHO - sstidman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"For the record, ghosting is a signal problem not a display problem. It happens on CRTs too." (by rmassie)
AHAHAHA......omg,.....idiot (by j0c1f3r)
Don't laugh, he's right. You and the article submitter are confusing ghosting with screen burn-in. Ghosting IS a signal problem, screen burn-in is an LCD problem (screen burn-in happens on CRTs, too, just not as easily as it happens on LCDs).
Why can't people just disagree without being so incredibly nasty to other people? - jpesicka2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0no way in hell i'll pay for an sed monitor when i just got a 17'' lcd, but i sure want the tv for my consoles, my dlp i have, the lamp burnt out after 6 weeks, but i took it back to best buy & free of charge, i got a knew tv, the same damn one, identical too the first, countdown to it...
- Cyberdactyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0
I have a DELL UltraSharp 2405FPW 24-inch LCD and could not be happier. No dead pixels, 1900x1200 native and under $850. It's beautiful, and I don't regret for a heartbeat leaving CRTs to the past. - ryanknapper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Not new, but dugg anyway.
- lamprey187, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sweet, hopefully after they are on the market for awhile the price will drop.
- l7productions, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm totally behind this technology.
Makes so much sense. - dalle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is nice. Hope the image will be as sharp as on TFTs.
- timbtwisted, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is a really good idea. It'll probably end up failing though, LCD and plasma have all the momentum and they'll be cheaper when the SED finally hits. I saw burn in mentioned before. I think that's a bigger problem with Plasma displays then modern CRT's personally. Anotherthing however is that modern LCD displays have great response time. I've never noticed any bleed through or ghosting on either of my more modern displays. That aside the SED display should still be very high res and a darn good feast for the eyes, I hope they pull it off cus I want me one.
- kramer3d, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i got an LCD for one reason.. ITS EASIER ON MY EYES
can I expect the same fron SEDs? - idarkiswordi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0With all the talk of dead pixels, I have to wonder why you think there will need to be a native resolution? CRTs arent based on a native resolution, and instead span whatever signal you send it across the phosphor elements, where thier resolution is given in 'dot pitch' form. Unless I missed something in the article or somewhere else, I dont see why SEDs will have any truely similar problems to LCD dead pixels. My guess, mind you, this is if i didnt miss anything, is that SEDs will follow a similar display approach as CRTs in which, only a single element will be broken. Just a guess though...
- weiran, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Time to upgrade my 19" TFT already?
digg++ - enzoten, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ill take ghosting over CRT flicker any day!!
- redrighthand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Whats the difference between SED's and FED's? (Feild Emission Displays) I remember there being alot of news a couple years back about 2 inch think CRT's
- brownman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0sounds very cool, but i hope there not too expensive
+digg - Bahwoot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Once again the screen saver revolution will be on the rise. Starfield anyone?
- TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I don't want to wait 40 years before you can get a cheap one as much as a CRT is now. :(
- dark_ryan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I wonder how much they will weigh. I think gamers will make it go off the shelves asap! Gamers will never need to buy a LCD again, and well isn't it time that they don't have to buy one. Now I also wonder if it will support DVI and not just VGA, cause DVI does a higher resolution.
- DigeratiPrime, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i was just going to say the same thing. An LCD does not have flicker or EMR so its lets stress on ones eyes. SED sounds like a CRT except thinner.
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