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219 Comments
- joel2600, on 10/12/2007, -0/+90at least he has an opportunity and a reason to return his laptop before it bursts into flames
- szelij, on 10/12/2007, -8/+64Class action lawsuits most often benefit the lawyers not the consumer.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -19/+60A couple issues seem suspicious to me.
First, Dell clearly states on their website that this is a software upgrade, not hardware.
Second, the guy recorded his call when he was ordering this.
It seems almost like he was trying to catch them on something he was already aware of. He was hoping to get a recording of an uninformed employee saying it was hardware so he could complain. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what he did by listening to the way he says "hardware" in the recording.
I call lame. - bocaJWho, on 10/12/2007, -5/+45Since the guy misquoted what was offered on the phone, they should offer to let him return the laptops and give him the money back.
I think that the worst part tho is that they can't even tell him what cable he needs for 5.1 sound. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+38You know who he should really call? Creative Labs. Soundblaster is their trademark, and if Dell is going around claiming to be using their hardware, but really not, it's diluting their product value. Or arguably, stealing from them.
I'd also suggest contacting the state commerce division, file a claim. - rolosworld, on 10/12/2007, -7/+42Smell's like a 2 class action's will be coming soon...
exploding laptops && integrated sound blaster audio card - software version - NinjAlt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26Dell is quickly going down the sony path with putting their foots in their mouths.
- SkyFire360, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27I had the exact same problem. I just recently bought a Dell E1505 laptop, and upgraded to the SoundBlaster card. I admit it was a great deal ($750 off a $2000+ laptop)... or so I thought.
I called Dell to ask why my laptop came with integrated SigmaTel audio card and not a SoundBlaster. Long story short, I spent 3 hours on the phone with 5 different departments (Tech Support, Customer Support, Warranty, RMA and even Sales). The only thing that I got out of the entire ordeal was a kink in my neck from holding my phone and a couple of middle management people calling me a liar.
I eventually said "Screw it, I can live with onboard" and ate the $50 upgrade charge... not worth the hassle of an RMA. - SuperCheese, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22It's true. I too bought an E1505 with the Audigy upgrade... I hope this guy succeeds.
- Kardde, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23It's not the $25 that's the issue, it's the fact that Dell is seemingly charging for something they're not providing.
- lnstigator, on 10/12/2007, -17/+37what...are...you...trying...to...say? Lose the "..." and just type
- ckedge, on 10/12/2007, -4/+24This is what small claims court was MADE for. He should be able to get his $50 back plus costs. Maybe if he'd like to the court will even give him an order forcing dell to take back the laptop and for his CC comapny to reverse the transaction. (I'm not sure if he should send the laptops back with a letter and audio-cd with the transcript demanding a refund or trade-in, or go to small claims court first. A bit of research or asking in a legal forum/newsgroup might help with that.)
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27Sure, he COULD do this on his own, but a class action would be more fun.
- gcnaddict, on 10/12/2007, -5/+25My E1705 is listed as having a SigmaTel High Definition Audio CODEC as the sound hardware, even though I bought an audigy.
Yes, I was lied to. - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20What next, ATI Radeon Software Edition? Uses software to accelerate your 3D applications!
- omglazers, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25You win
- BlakeEM, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18I remember back when Dell was prided on their support, but that was about 10 years ago. I hate companies that outsource. Half the time I can hardly understand them and half the stuff they say is total BS or points they read off a computer screen and they know little or nothing about the subject.
When will we get fully modular laptops? That will be the day. - Odweaver, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Part of the reason I returned my E1505 was the sound card. First there was the upgrade scam on it, which was easily noticed through a dxdiag, but the sound card they give you makes loud buzzing and popping noises, along with crashing your system.
- radiofrequency, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15@szelij 2:
"Class action lawsuits most often benefit the lawyers not the consumer."
Class action lawsuits hurt the company that tried to pull a fast one on its customers, so in the end consumers do win. - Kliend, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16haha, funny thing is, I was on dell shopping, and theres a little checkbox that allows you to choose whether or not the computer is Vista capable. it doesn't change the costs or parts or anything, just whether or not it is vista capable.
- dunezone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I cant believe this, I ran into this issue last week. A young man brought in the 1505 notebook. He was having stuttering issues playing dvds. I ended up getting Dell to send a new DVD module to me. But anyway, in my quest to fix the problem I went ahead and updated all the drivers video,sound, etc and also the BIOS. I had so many issues updating the sound card since I was looking for the wrong drivers in the first place.
- pushmouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14It's still in its sleave. That's why it looks weird.
- masterkenobi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Crap, I just ordered two E1505's with the "upgrade" and should be getting to me in a few days. Damn you, Dell!!
- Kardde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10You're completely missing the point, juansito.
A company the size of Dell should not be conducting business in this manner. It would be akin to Wal-Mart selling X-Box 360's, but instead putting Atari Jaguar's into the X360 boxes. In other words, customers are paying for something, and instead they're getting something entirely different and less valuable. - LesOReilly, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10S-Video has 4 connectors. Y-C and 2 Spare. Y cares the Sync and Lumma values while the C caries the Chroma values. The 2 spares were intended to be used for Digital Audio pass through. However no one ever utilized this since most TVs don't have digital Audio Processors. Kinda like why HDMI is useless. It is just DVI-D with digital Audio, but good old HDCP will help make it mandatory.
So He is not the idiot, and you should really do some research before you go Flaming someone. You just end up looking like a Jackass. - Ryosen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Belarc Advisor is a PC auditing tool, available from www.belarc.com. It runs through your PC and itemizes the software and hardware installed.
It's absolutely useless, however, in a case like this where the consumer was lied to about the laptop's configuration. For those that didn't read or understand the article, he ordered the laptops from Dell over the phone. Also, the description on Dell's website, in the configurator, is vague at best, and deceptful at worse. - aelias, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Just got mine, with the upgrade. It is a HD chip, it's just not an Audigy. Personally, I think it sounds fantastic, even with my Grado headphones, which are really hard on headphone amps, and tend to exaggerate flaws.
Tried to reinstall, and reauthorize, and Creative gave me some ***** about re-authorizing. So I'm doing without the software for now. Haven't noticed anything other than excellent sound quality, so what's the point?
The dell site does mention the Crystallizer chip, which I thought was Creative only, but maybe they licensed it to Sigmatel.
Long story short, if theres a class action, I'll sign up, but other than that I'm just going to enjoy it till it melts. - irieKEN, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12I posted this below, but there are people that still need to hear it.
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There seems to be a little misunderstanding amongst the users here. There is NOT an emulated "creative audigy" card. "Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™ HD Software Edition" refers to the hardware and software supporting HD audio, which you can get in certain laptops/desktop computers from Dell.
What Dell has done is shipped the drivers disc (yes, Dell charges $25 per drivers disc) for the SB Audigy HD Edition series card, which Dell does sell as a Cardbus peripheral.
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The said AV cable will NOT give him 5.1 sound. His integrated audio chipset DOES NOT support 5.1 channel audio. His only option for getting 5.1 channel audio with the E1705 would be to use a 5.1 channel USB audio card, because the E1705 only has an ExpressCard slot.
IMPORTANT: The E1705 only has an ExpressCard slot! - kimos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8No it's not. It's in a sleve and dropped on a photo scanner...
- Zuggy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Part of the problem isn't customer support but cheap corprate handling of customer support.
I worked for a call center here in the US for DirecTV and the training you get for call centers is to look things up on a huge library of information. The problem is that, in my experience, the search features suck, the software tends to be buggy, and worst of all the information is vague at best. Top onto that the stress that your calls have to be a certain length and at peak hours you literally get 2 seconds from the end of one call to the start of the next.
I guess my point is not to blame the Customer Service Rep you get but the whole corprate rigamarol that causes call centers that can't correctly answer questions.
TIP: If you are getting no where, ask for a supervisor. They generally have better training (not good but better) and will be more likely to be able to help. CS Reps can get into serious trouble if they suggest that you talk to someone above them (know from experience) so as a rule of thumb, if your getting no where in about 10 min ask for a supervisor. - gemlarin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10So they lie to their employees as well. Lovely.
- JimNtexas, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8"May i add that recording conversations is HIGHLY ILLEGAL. "
That's not true in Texas. Here it is legal if one party knows about the recording. - pak314, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10perhaps he recorded the conversation for "quality assurance purposes" just like these companies do themselves.
- atbnet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10No it isn't. You only need one party to agree to phone call recording. So as long as you give yourself permission to record your calls then you're fine. You don't even have to tell them you are recording either. They record the calls too, perhaps you forget, "Your call may be monitored to quality assurance."
- mdshort, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Actually it makes sense, I've seen combination ports like that where you can connect different things for different functions. It's not hard to create a simple hardware switch or add an extra set of prongs for audio as well as video.
- colklink, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8DirectX is not a software 3D accelerator, it is a collection 3D application programming interfaces (API). It is an interface that allows (among many other things) 3D applications to communicate with each other and with your hardware.
- apu95, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7This isn't the first time this has happened. It also happened to me when I had to order a Dell Dimension desktop. I ordered one with the option of a Creative Soundblaster 5.1 card on the website. The problem was that it wasn't a real Creative card because it wouldn't take the drivers from the Creative website. The label on the card said something like SB4001, which means an OEM card. The kicker here is that in the actual invoice sent to me, the sound card label says SB4041 (or something similar), which represents the real retail version of the card. I called Dell so many times that I lost count, and they even sent a tech over to change the cards (only to realize later that he brought the same card -_-). Eventually, after a LOT of hassling, one CSR offered to send me a SoundBlaster Audigy card with firewire port, to which I happily agreed to get =)
Still pisses me off though, they offer these things and then they change them after you've placed the order, thinking you're going to just brush it off. I hope he gets the product he deserves, or a refund, or maybe even an upgrade! - irieKEN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7There seems to be a little misunderstanding amongst the users here. There is NOT an emulated "creative audigy" card. "Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™ HD Software Edition" refers to the hardware and software supporting HD audio, which you can get in certain laptops/desktop computers from Dell.
What Dell has done is shipped the drivers disc (yes, Dell charges $25 per drivers disc) for the SB Audigy HD Edition series card, which Dell does sell as a Cardbus peripheral.
The Dell technician in the recording clearly states that it is a upgrade, which the drivers definitely are not. It is like giving someone a gallon of diesel for their gasoline car; there's no way that it's going to help them.
TFA says that he bought the computer for its 5.1 channel capabilities, which this model actually doesn't support. However, Dell's sales/tech teams are trying to sell him an AV cable, claiming that it will give him 5.1 channel audio.
Dell obviously has trouble hiring qualified people to staff its sales and support positions for home users, and obviously gave him something different than what was promised over the phone. What's worse is that Dell's support isn't committed to fixing the situation, except by trying to sell him additional components (which still won't fix the problem). - AndrewJ, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Only buy from Dell Small Business Division, or not at all.
- AZTriGuy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I bought a E1505 a few months back, got a good deal through our company's discount plan. I didn't get the sound upgrade, wasn't really that important to me. Haven't noticed anything wrong with the stock sound card like someone mentioned above.
That being said, there is one other thing that is kind of left off their configuration pages and sales stuff. I bought the system with an 80GB hard drive. What they DON'T tell you is that system restore disks (generally just Ghost images now, most systems don't even come with the true Windows disks anymore) are not included by default anymore. They add a hidden partition on the drive with the Ghost image, accessed by their Restore application. So, I get my laptop with the 80GB drive, and my C: shows as 62GB instead, and only about 45GB free after all the crapware they so thoughtfully preloaded for me. There are a total of 3 partitions on my drive - the main partition, the restore partition (6GB), another FAT16 partition that was only about 200MB that I have no idea what it was for, and the rest was unallocated space. Not a very efficient install if you ask me.
Good thing was I called support and after only about 5 minutes on hold got someone who actually sounded American (no real discerable accent at least) and he sent out the Dell Restore DVD's without any charge, got them the next day. The main restore DVD had the OS, there was another for the E1505 specific drivers, and another for all the crapware. So, I wiped all the partitions, and was able to do a fresh install with no crapware. Really no issues, I'm a little pissed about the misleading drive size, but I was able to fix it pretty painlessly without any cost to me, so no problem.
And yeah, if I didn't need a laptop I would have homebuilt another desktop so I could get it exactly how I wanted it. You're kind of stuck when you want a laptop, can't really build those from scratch. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I routinely record my conversations with any large company I have to do business with on the phone. So far nothing untoward has been said, but I want to be prepared, just in case.
- plefno, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Unfortunately I have to admit I fell for this gimmick too. I recently got a new e1405 laptop from Dell, and seeing the option to upgrade to an Audigy card for so cheap, I went for it. I admit that I probably didn't read the page as well as I should have, so it may have said "software upgrade only" or whatever. I don't really place the blame on Dell, because if it said that, I should have caught it.
But I do think that Dell is misleading its customers. I think they realize that most people won't catch the part about it being a software upgrade only. I do not considering that lying, maybe not the best business practices, but not lying. I'll just be more attentive next time I shop with Dell. - evolseven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5no matter if that individual misstated something intentionally or not, while they are at work with dell they are representatives for that company, and either dell needs to train there representatives to the point to where they are not lieing to a customer or not offer phone ordering at all..
Thats like you ordering 12 Red roses to be delivered and when they get there its actually 12 Brown roses, who are you going to be mad at.. the person who told you they were red or the company which provided them? - LocalH, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Many laptops nowadays actually do have more than four pins on their S-Video port. Both of mine do, and the older one is a few years old.
- gfnw, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5THE CD IS IN A SLEEVE. What part of this do people not understand?
- smeager, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Same here in NY. As from what I know is the same in many states.
- seanmac, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Why did he record the conversation? Seems to me he read about the issue and decided to set Dell up a la the AOL "cancel the account" guy.
- WhatTheWho, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5To answer a few questions and comments here:
#1) When I first looked at this notebook/laptop configuration online last month, *there was no mention that the Soundblaster Audigy option was software only* Iwasn't ready to buy at that time.
#2) We ordered by phone, because we were having trouble with Dells website. If the website has been working, We'd have used it. I was later told it was due to a large number of hits on a Dell web promotion.
#3) The CD in the image is inside a sealed paper sleeve. That is how I scanned the image. I did not want to break the seal. Also, if you right click the image and save as.. you can open the ENTIRE image not just the 1/2 that is showing on the webpage.
#4) Not being able to utilize Dells website, we called multiple times into Sales, Customer Care and Tech Support (at the suggestion of Sales reps) to get the hardware specifications for the E1505 features we wanted.
#5) Returning the notebook computers would result in Dell trying to apply a 15% restocking feee. Meaning I would lose hundreds of dollars just to return them.
#6) I am *NOT* trying to "get more" from Dell ala AOL.. as I noted, this is just ONE issue out of many I needed Dell support to address, and Dell support has been abysmal in doing so. What I have been trying to do, is get enough attention so someone at Dell who has a better grasp of English and the authority to assist me appropriately.
#7) In my opinion, the issue I posted, is one of the LEAST embarrassing to Dell of the other issues I want to address with them. They may disagree, but I purposely did not post the other issues to save Dell some bigger headaches than even this one could be.
#*8) The E1505's aren't all bad. If some of these issues are resolved, it wouldn't hurt us to keep them. Dells post sales support however has been painful.
#9) None of Dells reps were rude to me. Most were downright nice, from the clueless to the not-so-clueless but lack-the-authority, to the downright disinterested (who were the worst, because they had no interest in even trying to understand the problem)
#10) When I call in to Dell's support, the automated message states that Dell may record the call. I don't care WHY they may do it, the facvt that they have informed me they might, gives me the right to record it too. Also, my state allows me to record phone conversations as a single party notification.
#11) And please keep in mind.. just ONE rep didn't give me this incorrect information..MULTIPLE reps did. Pre and Post sale. In my opinion, this is reflective of either:..
A) Dell management knows this happens and makes more money letting it go.. or
B) Dell doesn't do enough pre-sales fact checking, which I should not be punished for.
C) Dell purposely misinforms their reps who couldn't know better in order to increase revenue (few companys would keep a rep who knows better)
D) Dell is too busy expanding to realize they're too large to handle their existing customer base adequately. (or they realize it and care more for profit, so we just get lip service).. in other words, stop worrying about increasing sales.. put more effort into support. And don't claim you are, when it's not evident to the post sales consumer.
E) Dell simply doesn't train their people very well. Spend more time/money on training and incentive to inprove skills/knowledge. And that means, stop giving incentives for how many "successfully closed trouble tickets" or sales your reps make each day. It's only counter productive to good service.
Anyway, those are my speculations. Time to go check e-mail and see if anyone at Dell cared enough to rspond to me over the weekend. - topato, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8It's not about the 25 bucks, it's about how dell lied to him and how much time he has to spend trying to get a refund. It will probably take over a month for him to get his money back, as It did when I returned a dell.
- thedead, on 10/12/2007, -12/+16I work at dell...and This is the first I have heard of it...I currently sell based that it is a different card...no one was told otherwise...now I know better....
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