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58 Comments
- tbhurst, on 06/28/2008, -0/+30I'm fascinated by the notion of capturing waste heat (from data centers, industrial applications, etc) and using it to heat other parts of the building or even (if there is enough of it) using it to spin a turbine and generate elec. that way.
- phreak79, on 06/28/2008, -0/+26Making IT more energy efficient is crucial. It was reported only recently that the sector is likely to overtake aviation in terms of emissions before long.
- BlueSkyfish, on 06/28/2008, -0/+13That would be cool if they could route their hot water pipes so the water travels through the server's cooling systems and extracts heat from there before it reaches the boiler. That would save a ton of energy.
- spyd3rweb, on 06/28/2008, -0/+10I use my watercooling system to heat my room, keeps it a constant 80F in the winter. And in the summer... uhhh yeahhh, not so good :(
- dood, on 06/28/2008, -0/+9I think they should open laundromats above datacenters. And heated indoor swimming pools. Leak-proof laundromats and swimming pools, that is.
- SteveHamn, on 06/28/2008, -1/+6meh, you'd be better off just making the servers more efficent. The process of taking waste energy and converting it to electrical energy will create even more waste energy. (turbine heating, generator inefficency, etc)
- krnldmp, on 06/28/2008, -0/+5Solar absorption chillers are the way to go in the summer. Rotartica makes some. There are companies that specialize in Much larger systems for industrial use.
In the winter "waste heat" is mainly a problem of the common idiot. - aussiessuck, on 06/28/2008, -0/+4I keep all my porn on a USB external drive. That way it only contributes to global warming for the 5 minutes every other day it gets used.
- AlphaBronco, on 01/25/2009, -1/+5I do work in datacenters and I would love to get rid of all the individual server power supplies and replace them with a DC power in jack. I'm just thinking about how much wiring and bulk that could be saved by getting rid of thousands of thick, black, uhhhh...AC power cords. ;) And switches. And PSU's.
In a datacenter environment, it seems rediculous for each server to require its own individual AC-DC converter, fan, transformer, etc. - localzuk, on 06/28/2008, -0/+3The advent of optical logic gates should help with this in future, as the heat produced via these is much lower than the current age of silicon logic gates.
- corbettkroehler, on 06/28/2008, -10/+13That's right. It's a very big deal. I conducted some research and found that Microsoft is a leader in the area. You can read my 3-part report on the matter below:
Part 1
http://www.keyboard-culture-global-warming.com/200 ...
Part 2
http://www.keyboard-culture-global-warming.com/200 ...
Part 3
http://www.keyboard-culture-global-warming.com/200 ... - Dwebtron, on 06/29/2008, -0/+3why 3 parts
- MindStalker, on 06/28/2008, -0/+3You could do it without the risk, using a heat pump to pump excess heat from the air in into cold water pipes (cold as in city water not cooled water) pipes that can be in the next room even. Those cold water pipes then travel to the water heater. You have less work for the water heater, and less work for the heat pumps versus pumping out into the more likely hotter exterior.
- rdebath, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2I think the second law of thermodynamics might have something to say about that.
- smacksaw, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2Maybe I'm giving away a million dollar idea here, but I always thought it would be interesting to pipe the heat out the back to a boiler and a turbine, steam engine, etc. and use that to power A/C that you pipe back into the room.
The idea would be to have cheaper A/C as opposed to cooler PCs. I don't think you want to slow down the processors or compromise their performance, though they should be cool to run efficiently and optimally. - noahhoward, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2No not really, you'd have to use some electricity to replace the energy lost but not as much as you would with just straight elec.
- linuxpenguin, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2That would be cool, but it could put the systems at risk - which is probably at least part of why they don't do it now.
It wouldn't be horribly hard to make a good, water-tight connection - but for most companies, they probably don't want to risk it. - mrsteve007, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2When my office was designing a new heating/cooling system into the building, I made sure to add dedicated ductwork and low voltage fans to suck hot air from above our servers and put the air into the perpetually cold entrances of the building. The 8 servers put out around 9,000 BTU an hour of heat. This system works great during the most of the year, when it pulls in cooler air from the rest of the building. Only during the summer do we need to start our dedicated server room AC. Without the fans or the AC, the room will go from 72* to 90* within 90 minutes anytime during the year.
- Drizzit, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2Where I work we have about 1 million square feet of data center space. All of the buildings are cooled by chiller units which are efficient heat exchangers and we dont have to worry about CFC issues.
At 1.5% of the electricity used I do not see the problem. People upgrading to LCD tv's could save more power and probably all the CRT's that were replaced with LCD's all across the country have already made up for the expansion of data centers out there.
(Nice little firefox bug ) cant see what I'm typing woot.
Anywho, datacenters are getting more efficient as older computers are replaced with next generation machines that use less power and can do more. You have to look at performance per foot so space. Getting that number higher means more efficiency. - yaddayaddayoda, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2This is a Good Idea... however you are going to have to worry about humidity, condensation, dust, pollen, and other outside contaminants. You definitely want to watch the air quality. Air-to-air heat exchangers are good.
- inactive, on 06/28/2008, -0/+2Ooohhhh, Color TV's. Fancy *****. Hey, I got transistors in my FM pocket radio.
- cliffzdude, on 06/29/2008, -0/+2Data centers cool via A/C. Including those in the great white north, or just the south on chilly nights.
True.
Now imagine if during the chilly months, data centers exhausted hot air and simply inducted chilly air from the outside? They do that already, right? Nope.
Even if they use a "chiller" to cool, its still WAAAAAY more inefficient than simply than circulating air from the outside. The GigaWatts that could be saved running the tubes come winter time is enormous. - smacksaw, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1noahhoward - thank you - you got it.
As I said, the idea is cheaper A/C. You would not have to pay as much for it if you were powering your own HVAC. Or you could use the steam to power a geothermal pump, which probably would be a net gain. - linuxpenguin, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1These are nice ideas - but really, when it comes to servers, the best method is to build/buy a system that will be energy-efficient and won't put out a ton of heat in the first place. You can't skimp on the energy you need to cool the system - the best you can do is come up with an efficient way of doing so when it's implemented. Unfortunately that means regular, over-the-shelf stuff for most people/companies. Buy a system that requires little power and generates relatively little heat - and then if you want to use water cooling to keep your costs low, go for it. If you don't have the time or know-how to set that up, then you can still get relatively low power consumption by just blowing an AC at it.
- YodaJones, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1If those are 2006 figures you need to Quadruple them (minimum) to get today's figures.
- kh99, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1I think the title's kind of misleading. The article is about finding ways to make it run cooler, or ways to cool the data center other than using A/C. (I should point out that if you had read the article you'd know this.)
- ThumperThumps, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1or did you mean "for the every 5 minutes, every day it gets used"?
- inactive, on 06/29/2008, -1/+2Solution: Virtualization.
- blipblopblip, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Attack its weak point for massive damage.
- proliance, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1Let me know when someone figures out how to cut down on the noise in a server room.
- AtheismFTW, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Just vent that hot air into a pipe system that can heat homes, or some other clever ***** to re-use what would otherwise be wasted temperature differentials.
Along the lines of what Dean Kamen is doing with his Vapor Compression Distiller. - localzuk, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1That's not how A/C works. It works by exchanging hot hair for cold. Not by just blowing cold into a room.
- krnldmp, on 06/28/2008, -0/+1It would be entirely possible to design a central forced air system that was ducted through the individual enclosures instead of having a ***** of little high speed fans running all over the place. A secondary alternative is using fully enclosed racks (as in 19" "relay" type) with a sealed and ducted air system attached. Putting the disk drives in a little sealed enclosure of their own works very well to isolate their acoustic noise output. Although those have been around for a long time finding one that is set up to properly dissipate heat can be a matter of trial and error and may depend on the package arrangement of individual drives, especially for types that use a solid thermal interface (heat sink) type arrangement. There are lots of ways to get it done. Exceptionally low noise is possible. Best acoustic performance often requires larger space, higher total system cost, and maybe even more power.
- BESTenemy, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1 I used to joke about selling heat from the server room at the company where I worked.
Seriously, having a mainframe running, with separate air conditioning and a separate heater for the offices is a waste of energy, at least during winter time.
The ideal solution would be - setting up all servers for water cooling and using the machine room as a furnace. - bjmoore123, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Virtualization and high density computing are definitely the answers to this problem.
Does this article seriously suggest that you pipe outside, unfiltered air into your data center though? Air pollution will significantly decrease the lifespan of your severs, and is something that should be seriously considered before 'opening a door' into your data center.
More benefits can be realized by consolidating unused servers into virtual platforms, converting pizza boxes into blades, and setting up a legit hot air recirculation system in your data center. You can probably have 50% of the physical footprint that you do today by doing this. - aki009, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Power supplies are getting more efficient on newer systems. It's mostly driven by the cost of cooling the waste heat. Of the other big heat sources, only CPUs have made significant reductions in heat with the latest 45nm technology node.
- Astaro, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1It'd only work if the water flow was constant, unfortunately, demand for hot water in an office building is very sporadic and low volume even during peak demand. pity, because it does seem like a nice idea.
- stukdog, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1The data center I'm at here in Las Vegas has got a great system going. (One which Bill Gates came to check out recently to take in at the Microsoft centers.)
Cool article about it: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/24/switch_swi ... - STPZ, on 07/01/2008, -0/+1I like to comment before i read the article, makes it have more of a twist ending....in any case by bad
- TheOther1, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Yup. You're probably better off pushing the utilization to 80% percent or better for fewer servers through virtualization. We have consolidated over a hundred servers to dozens, reducing power and cooling costs significantly. Of course, not all workloads are right for virtualization, but many do fit the bill nicely and can be consolidated on newer, faster, more efficient hardware.
- liuite, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1heat is energy, so what's the problem. never heard of stirling engine or steam engine before? also, there are ways to cool more efficiently, i.e. in ground heat exchanger.
- chemrat, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1This is pretty typical practice in other industries such as the chemical industry, where heat generated in one part of a facility is essentially always used elsewhere in the plant, not wasted.
- Crazy_8, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Same here actually. I have my desktop and then another atx tower serving me as a NAS. Not anything huge by any means, and I only use regular air fans, but combined the two of them keep my room nice and toasty in winter. Being in the basement helps to even out the heat in summer too though; so it's quite nice. :P
- clickwir, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1Hey I'm just some know nothing guy.... but something tells me putting a data center in BLISTERING HEAT ***** TEXAS is less of a good idea than putting it up in Canada.
If it was in Canada, you could turn off the 43563456 ton A/C units and just open a ***** window. Hell even Montana or Wisconson. Prop the door open with a couple ceiling fans.
Yes, this is a gross exaggeration. But in a state where the average temp is 20-30f cooler, your cooling needs on average will plummet as well. - 1SockChuck, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1The hot waste water isn't hot enough for a turbine, and heating it further would require more power. IBM just built a data center that used the waste heat from a data center to heat a nearby pool, and some hospitals use waste heat to do their laundry.
- 1SockChuck, on 06/29/2008, -0/+1A chipmaker in Taiwan has demonstrated using a Stirling engine (which uses hot air motion to drive the fan) to cool a PC motherboard:
http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/A ... - aussiessuck, on 06/29/2008, -0/+0bingo. I can admit it.
- linuxpenguin, on 06/28/2008, -1/+1The problem is that usually in a server room, you have the cold air blowing directly at the stuff that needs to be cool. Once the air hits it, there won't be much heat for the turbine to collect.
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