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- LordSkywalker, on 10/12/2007, -5/+38This thing is a ridiculously expensive piece of crap. I can't believe people are stupid enough to buy it.
- SteelChicken, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24"'Who is this meant for?"
Fools and their money. - Alfdog, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19Increases frame rates by 102% in your mind!!!
- Detritus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18I don't get it ... I have a 10-20ms ping on FPS servers in Chicago, and a 50ms MAX on servers anywhere from Texas to NY. All latency I experience is from internetwork traffic, off-loading that to a NIC might net me what? 1ms? 2ms? Connecting to servers in California will still put my traffic through 20 hops, so how is it going to possibly be helpful?
I'm used to spending $150-300 for gaming gear, and even I don't want this thing. Who is this meant for? - paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13"Who is this meant for?"
In the gaming world, what SteelChicken said. However I assume this is a pretty standard TCP offload chip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_Offload_Engine), which are used quite a bit in high-throughput network devices. In this case the CPU legitimately is being hammered, so TCP offloading makes some sense. - shadcrkd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12For twenty bucks...maybe.
- Terc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"The Killer K1 Placebo Extreme"
has a nice ring to it. - fjc8, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"Well, most NICs today are onboard, meaning all processing is done by the CPU"
Onboard does not mean that all processing is done by the CPU. Onboard simply means that the networking device is either directly connected to the PCI or PCI Express bus on the motherboard or it is part of another system chipset. The onboard NIC in my laptop and desktop PC is a Broadcom NetXtreme Gigabit Ethernet 5789 PCI Express adapter, and it performs TCP checksum offloading. It works the same as it would as if it was on a PCI Express 1x card...
"as well as they are gigabit adapters, which tend to really suck up your CPU time."
They only take up CPU time if you're transmitting a lot of data. The CPU time needed to transmit the data for a game, which is usually less than one-tenth of a percent of a full gigabit line, is minimal. - EvolvedAnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@CPUGuy
If they can afford this card, then they can afford upgrading their aging computer. I doubt that is lag they experienced so much as decreased frame rate which a new video card of the same price would go much further in assisting. - hazmat007, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6That thing is probably the biggest waste of 150 dollars I've seen in a while. The only thing compelling about it are the possible hacks one might perform on it. Maximum PC reviewed the original one and I think the only plus they found was the fact that they could download a large file while playing online and their ping didn't take any hits. Still, is that really worth 150?
- mbthompson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6What an utter and complete waste of money! Only a fool would buy something like this. Go buy a 3Com or Linksys, you're not going to see a difference in performance.
- Rufunki, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6$60-$70 bucks we will talk, any more then that, and no matter how much tech they put onto it, it is just a overpriced NIC, even at 60 bucks, it is a overpriced NIC.
- WolfwoodX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7It isn't just a network card, it is more like a computer inside your computer dedicated to networking. What network card can run programs ON it.. this one can. Think about running a bittorrent client on it and storing the files on a device through the USB port; it dosn't touch your system. If your playing a game off line, you system is freed from having to handle bittorrent and a game, but you still can download. No need for an extra computer. But it is targeted towards hardcore gamers, which in their nature, sacrifice hard earned cash to have the absolute best. And the device is still relativity new, and still carries the early adopter price.
- Shananra, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Not really, anyone smart enough to hack this is smart enough not to buy one.
- Slovenian6474, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5All this gets you is bragging rights...if you're willing to brag about the fact you paid 12x more that what a NIC card should cost.
- ahhell, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6We should get a hold of their customer(s) list then point and laugh at all the suckers that purchased this garbage.
They should rename these cards to Placebo. - ejwithers, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6MojoKid, do you mean "a bit more knowledge" as in how much they are paying/giving you free hardware to give a good opinion on this thing?
- bobothn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Pricing links if any on wants to buy one.
$179.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833342002
and the original
$249.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833342001 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Supposedly you can get access to FNApps via a firmware update for a small fee... which is like ASKING to be hacked ;-)
- AReallyGoodName, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4bigfootemp
That hardOCP review is terrible. 3 pages and no raw facts or comparisions.
Stuff like
"He was not able to identify better overall pings, and he reported that he did not feel that the Killer helped in out his gameplay"
Where's the information on the comparison, what network card did they compare against?
It really isn't a review as much as an opinion peice.
Definitely audiophile equivalent for network junkies. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"We should also note that the K1 can be upgraded through firmware to enable the FNApps feature should the user so choose. There is a charge associated with the upgrade."
Can anyone say Warez Scene in under 20minutes =P
and i would love to see someone mod this to have an Dual Core +2.0GHz processor =] - Kallstar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Let me reiterate, i'm not denying that it works, i'm confirming that it doesn't work. And as far as benchmarks go, i HAVE looked at several, and am very capable of concluding the absence of any perceptible performance gains. Here's one of the benchmarks with the "better" version of this useless nic. Why don't you explain to me how the erratic 4fps differences and +/- 1ms (Which by the way aren't always in this nic's favor) represent anything more than what you would see running the exact same tests over and over till the end of time? This DOES Nothing! Period.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2037166,00.asp
theres several pages of tests feel free to flip through all of them. - IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4cinrellik is another shill for "Killer":
http://www.digg.com/users/cinrellik/news/dugg - Roliverio, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Indeed. PlaceboNIC sounds just about right...
looks like "MojoKid" is one of these paid forum lurkers.
No one, i mean, no one it's going to be remembering things like "FNApps" or such, the nic is a pricey piece of garbage. - nogami, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"There is no doubt that the card does as it is advertised, it's just to flippin expensive."
Seems like there is a TON of doubt about it from almost every review I've read. I've got a free gigabit ethernet NIC on my motherboard, performs like a hot damn. I'm sure that the "killer" does an adequate job as a NIC, but it's basically the NIC form of "monster cables" - an expensive placebo.
N. - IHaveIssues, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Think of the file transfer speed on your home network!!1111111
- Koray, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3So they took the only redeeming values out of an otherwise very useless piece of technology just to move a few more units and they think that's a good thing?
- wildmXranat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4For the wanna be pwners that cant improve their game by any other means.
Bad buy. - Ouze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Have you ever noticed that when a Bigfoot employee points out "tests" done by third parties showing the increased performance of a Killer NIC they always use fuzzy fake science like "it felt smoother" without any hard numbers, or, alternately, when there are hard numbers, the positive results are on graphs provided by Bigfoot and the actual tests run usually show the kind of (very minor) fluctuations you'd see testing any network card over and over?
- AReallyGoodName, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@bigfoottemp
As stated those reviews are terrible and full of hearsay.
Besides, UDP data contains very little overhead for the CPU. Every recent network card sends data to and from system memory via DMA, so no CPU intervention there except to initialise the DMA descriptors. As for the network stack, in UDP there is a checksum (very simple to calculate) and the header containing the address, length, etc. Adding the header and calculating the checksum is insignificant, moving your mouse would lead to more calculations than the network stack creates.
A network card on a dual core CPU with a really well written network driver will be far faster than a hardware based network card with a 333Mhz CPU. - evolved303, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Seriously, guys look at IHaveIssues link. I wonder how much cinrellik gets paid to digg this *****. This is unacceptable, the use of community sites like they are vendors own little targeted markets. Digg up IHaveIssues, dig down cinrellik as being a shill, is this against terms of use?
- Kallstar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4In ALL the "benchmark's" i've seen done with this card, NONE has provided any perceptible performance increases. I don't say that lightly, but quite literally. PC's can't measure a difference between gaming with this card or any other nic, so not only is this a waste of money, its completely useless. You may as well paint racing stripes on your case, it'll give you just as much of a speed increase.
- japroach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3haha Kyle at [T]ard ocp is such a ***** sellout.
- Coded1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For gamers this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The major part of transferring any data via network is the processing and storage of that data. The card does have a sort of processing unit but right now it only handles protocol type actions that don't necessarily require the host application, examples of this are ping, syn flooding, protocol hacking, connection errors and vpn's. Don't forget as for gaming eventually the NIC has to pass the data off to the CPU for processing, the only place this may help out is for synchronous transfers that lock up the computer after sending data waiting for a reply, most NIC's do support async transfers. I guess mid level business database apps could benifit as it would give some leeway on the pci bus to do transactions instead of having a dedicated machine like the big guys. Lastly for network monitoring it could be beneficial but if that is all the machine is doing all day then it would be cheaper buying a $30 PII-200MHz running on that all day (and more software for it too ;)
But for gamers? - zengonzo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5
Did that not qualify as a response? - Kallstar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The last thing I want to read is even MORE negative reviews. Especially the ones that try to spin the mediocre results into something positive. WoW servers are laggy, thats about the only thing i've seen in every review, and yes i skimmed through the 3 you posted (and they were negative, i can see numbers).
EVERYWHERE i look, theres far more negative things said about this card than anything else. Causes system instability, bsod, annoying updates, mobo doesnt post with card, slow browsing, no fps/ping improvements, extremely expensive. Nice to see the company trolling every website, including newegg, even though theres been less than 70 reviews, but hey, products can't speak for themselves right? Not bad ones anyway, but im sure this card is just misunderstood :( Especially with all the misinformation you guy's have been spewing all over the place.
Example?
No, its not $100 dollars cheaper, Jason Cross reviewed the Killer NIC The then 280dollar card, thats now 250+S&H... and in case you forgot his exact words "It's not worth $279 or even $179. Probably not even for $99. It needs to be dramatically less expensive, and it needs to work better in more games. Use the money for other PC upgrades." http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2037169,00.asp
But i guess you're right, Jason liked the card.. weeeeellll IF it would work . . . better (If at all?), and cost less than 100bucks, for the 250model with the cool heat sink, which is probably all it will ever have going for it.
I do have some good news though, you know what would go really well at the end of every order?
"You've been Rob'd" OHH FNApps! - japroach, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Please stop mentioning Kyles name, he is the last person you want to be associated with. Ok maybe second to eric bauman, but thats it.
- xNIBx, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Saying that this nic helps reducing latency and improves game performance is stupid. It's like saying that replacing your 12gram ashtray in your car with a 10gram shiny chrome ashtray, makes your car go and accelerate faster. Yes, in theory it makes your car lighter, therefore your car should accelerate faster and have a bigger maximum speed. But in practice, the difference isnt conceivable and i doubt it is even measurable.
Yes, the on board linux box is cool but you can get tiny boxes with embedded linux for less money and better performance. All in all, this device is utterly idiotic and anyone who buys it should be castrated in order to protect the future of humanity. - Ouze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's funny you should mention the PC perspective review, because I did read that one in it's entirety. It was a typical review of this product, with lots of "it sorta felt better" and graphs and charts showing it's sometimes better, sometimes the same, and sometimes worse in the same game. What stood out at me in that one is that in the last statement of the final thoughts, he says, and i quote "Before getting a card in to test, I was a Killer NIC non-believer; I am still not completely convinced, but I'm definitely on the edge now." So he tests the card, states at the end hey, i'm not sure if it does anything, but it might. That's a pretty compelling review, man. Then he gives it a silver award - WTF?
Then you also mention the HardOCP review. The careful methodology that HardOCP used to test your product was to bring in their players to your facility and use your machines... um, OK. I'd think it was biased except as usual, one guy said it sorta seemed worse and one guy said it sorta seemed a little better but almost no difference. Then they gave it an editors choice award. Wow. It seems like the real testing these reviewers are doing on your products is making sure your checks cleared before they publish.
Your product costs one hundred fold the cost of a card that is generally built into modern motherboards for free. For this incredible investment, you get (again quoting hardOCP) "marginally better framerates". My advice to you is to not bother aiming your product at hardcore gamers and high-end enthusiasts. They are too savvy for this product. Instead, you should try to sell your products to the people who pre-ordered Infinium Lab's Phantom gaming console. Trust me, that is the market you are looking for. - pompousjohn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3If you are playing a game that is using 98% of your CPU's available clock cycles then it makes perfect sense that a NIC with it's own processor onboard will reduce latency. Not actually network latency, but system latency. System latency you don't have when you are running pings and traceroutes in a DOS window, but that could easily be there when you are in a heavy gaming session and your system is maybe treating your network connection like a low-priority background task step-child that can "wait a few extra milliseconds goddammit while I process this ***** T&L eye-candy *****."
Just like any decent graphics card now has its own processor and high end raid cards have their own processors and high end USB headsets have their own DSP to take work away from the CPU so it can do other stuff. - BigfootEmp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Hey Guys,
I am a Bigfoot Networks employee (we make the Killer NIC and Killer K1). I wanted to chime in because of some misconceptions I have read in the posts about the product.
What Killer NIC and Killer K1 are designed to do is get data to your game as fast as possible once it hits your computer. Killer completely replaces the Windows Networking Stack with a hardware implementation, which allows it to get data to the game faster and more directly. Getting data to the game more quickly means data can get incorporated into the game up to several frames ahead of what users normally experience with other gig networking products (onboard or cards).
Killer frees up a small amount of CPU cycles because your CPU doesn't have to do networking anymore, and these cycles become critical when you need the CPU power the most -- i.e. -- when bombs are rocking your world in BF2 or when you are raiding Molten Core.
Check out what the reviewers have to say about it:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTIzOSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/1027/BigfootNetworksKillerNICReview.html
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?type=expert&aid=338
Let me know if you have any questions
Robert - evolved303, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1cinrellik why haven't you replied to kallstar's comments. The review clearly shows the NIC is useful only as a paperweight.
- paulmdx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This needs to be drawn attention to. Some screenshots and a short article would make for interesting reading.
- Splizxer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Why does it have a USB port on it? To give it something of use so you don't feel too cheated out of $180?
- Kallstar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Are you sure you have that last letter of your name right Robert? Y and T are quite close to each other. Perhaps the company could have done some more testing (1 2 3) before wasting everyones time and money. Can you ping me now? Seriously though, i hope you know you're just ripping off a bunch of people (assuming some actually buy this junk). Quite shameful.
- CPUGUy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+6Well, I've heard people say that after they used this card they no longer have lag in Ironforge, which is pretty major.
There is no doubt that the card does as it is advertised, it's just to flippin expensive. - bobothn, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1since i have a 100mbs switch i would guess 100mbs that is what most people are saying though. it is not the card in your pc that slows down file transfers it is the wires they flow on and the routers and switches between them and you. You could probably get the same speed out of a $10 gig card as you would this for file transfer because your hard drive couldn't write data that fast. this is strictly for gaming and even then it wouldn't help that much.
- Cinrellik, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3Eliminating the windows network stack will still improve performance.
The network stack adds lag BETWEEN when the game data is recieved to your computer and when its sent back out. This is not shown on ping, as its the pause that happens between pings.
This feature alone smooths out performance.
What you find after upgrading to highspeed internet, a nice router and a decent computer is that windows itself is still adding lag to your game. Killer eliminates the windows network stack lag in addition to everything else it does. (udp priority, etc) - BigfootEmp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0xNIBx, actually the performance is extremely feelable and almost always measurable. Check out this review to see what HardOCP's blind test results yielded with professional caliber gamers:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTIzOSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==
Also check out the rest of the reviews at http://www.killernic.com/KillerNic/KillerNewsReviews.aspx to see the rest of the reviews and how feelable they report them. -
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