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136 Comments
- Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -9/+35Adam Curry is so over. He may have been the person that drove podcasting into the spotlight, but he quickly showed his true stripes in the fact that he was only in this for profit.
Then he edited his own Wikipedia entry, therefore completly losing all respect from every single person in the universe. I'm really surprised people still work under his Podshow banner. He's washed up - sjk8990, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22Last time I checked if you don't like the contract you don't have to sign it. Either learn to read or get a lawyer to read it for you.
- hass, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20I like how this is filed under the robots category. HUAR!
- mesoed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Most of the items in the contract are VERY, VERY typical for media contracts. I have much of the same wording, restrictions, and right-to-use agreements in my old TV contract.
The problem is that podcasting is not typical media. - DisembarkedOne, on 10/12/2007, -9/+23No a big fan of Mr. Curry myself.
after that stint with wikipedia.org he really feel in the rating on my scale - goettel, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20Adam Curry has been nothing but a populist but still marginal, money-grabbing embarassement for years. We knew he edited Wikipedia's entry on Podcasts to overstate his own importance (which is the sort of guy he is, judging by his media performance).
Now we know why.
Scumbag. - EmmEff, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Yeah, geez, it's an invitation to a Podshow association. Nobody is pointing a gun to your head to sign the contract. Podcasting will exist with or without Podshow.
- Simen, on 10/12/2007, -8/+18I'm getting so tired of this Curry-bashing.
I honestly do NOT believe he is either the Messiah or the Devil. He's just an enthusiastic guy whose trying to do what he loves and make some cash in the process.
It's just plain naive to think the contract is particularly devious or evil, and the recurring scandalizing of his person probably tells us more about an envious public than it does about him.
If you don't like him, ignore him...and that's probably what hurts him the most.
If you DO like him, then please continue doing so.
But DON'T forget that, in the end, he's just another guy. - EmmEff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12For somebody that is "so over", he seems to be attracting more advertising and press daily... I thought he was over 6 months ago when the wikipedia thing hit and now he's got more advertising (read- more $$$) and more press than ever before.
- psimac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Last time I checked, Adam Curry did not own or solely operate Podshow. It's a corporation owned mostly by venture capitalists and is a for-profit company. I believe what they are doing is a good thing, overall, and as someone who's been involved with a start-up before, understand there are bumps in the road and learning experiences. Podshow is a fledgling company, growing and conforming to whatever works to best its user/listener base. At the end of the day, however, they are in BUSINESS, where they need to make a profit. Just like Digg.com or any other company. My read on Podshow is that it has been very responsive to its customer base and critics. What they are doing is good for this industry. RIAA is evil, not Podshow. People who instantly react to this story and blame Adam Curry for everything, as if he is the owner of Podshow, are completely ignorant. You people should be reacting to the RIAA using a call center to sue people!
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14particularly heinous: any logos affiliated with your show are now owned by Podshow.
Another important item owned by Podshow under this contract: all previously recorded shows (of which ownership will not be returned upon contract termination). - UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10edit/note: to Podshow's credit, ownership WILL be returned if contract is terminated.
- miktho, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Curry has retorted on The Daily Source Code today...
_m - JalenJade, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The reason Adam Curry gets all the heat when Podshow does something is he's the face of podshow, erm make that Voice. Podshow is owned by people you've never heard of and will probably never hear their individual names, maybe the name of the company who really owns Podshow.
Who cares about a contract? ALL contracts are BS for the person who didn't write it. (You look at the next contract you have to sign, unless you wrote it.) If you go work for a software company or any company where you're developing something your contract pretty much says "Anything you develop while employed by Is the propriety of ." Not 'Anything you develop while WORKING for ' But Employed by, so even if you do something outside of work they can claim it as theirs.
EVERY company is going to work in ITS best interests first and then do what it thinks is fair. Podshow has a lot of podcasts in its network and so they must be doing something right. - dynamod, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15I'm listening to the Keith and the Girl podcast... and I'm not a podcaster (yet, who konws...) this contract is insane... podshow would own everything that's related to the podcast (logo, matelrial..) and exclusive license of content! They could SELL your shows on CD for instance and not have to give you jack for it.
this is pure evil. - veritech, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I've been a KATG listen for almost a year now, and listened to the DSC until the last 6 months. So i can kinda a see it from both angles. I heard about them(KATG) wanting to know the deets on the contract from last week, and by the sounds of it, it will be a good show.
If the comments above are true i've been truely let down by adam curry, i respect his past work, but as keith would say the deal has always sounded "shadey". Hopefully the Podcast music network doesn't suffer from similiar restrictions.
Anyone who isn't easily offended, give the Keith and the girl podcast a try, its comedy btw.
PS. No brumski - CasadeMike, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11What's funny is how Curry talks about how Podcasting is revolutionizing media and putting the rights back in the hands of the people. He often talks about the shady radio industry and record labels and how all that is going away. THEN - he comes out with a shady-record-company-style contract to take the property rights from content owners. I guess it's only shady if someone other than Curry is doing it.
When I first stared listening to Podcasts I would listen to this guy. It didn't take long before I grew great disdain for him.
Comments like "this week I am in the cottage in London" next "I will be in my penthouse in New York". Or, "I am flying the plane to Brussels". This guy just comes across as a pompous ass whenever I listen to him.
The fact that he is trying to control and manipulate Podcasting just deducts further points from him in my books. I have no problem with people trying to monetize new technologies - but don't try to put yourself across as some holier-than-though person if that's what your end game is. - mesoed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7The only thing not returned to ownership is shows created as a Podshow podcaster. Podshow owns those (although I'd be curious if they'd actually prevent a podcaster from using those shows)
- Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11you have a point. He'll probably end up as the sterilized family-friendly face of podcasting, but he'll never really regain the respect of the actual people who listen to or create podcasts
- RabidPuppet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7What we really need is a comparison of this contract with the "standard" RIAA or music industry contract. My guess is the Podshow contract, though one sided MIGHT be less one sided than the music industry contracts. If not, then Podshow does will never be the unlable alternative to the dreaded record industry...
- RabidPuppet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7What we really need is a comparison of this contract with the "standard" RIAA or music industry contract. My guess is the Podshow contract, though one sided, might be LESS one sided than the music industry contracts. If not, then Podshow will never be the un-label alternative to the dreaded record industry...
- veritech, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7For those of you not in the know, HUAR = Humans united against robots, it's a KATG thing, and hey it's wednesday ^_^
- longman2g, on 10/12/2007, -11/+17its not evil, the artists weigh whether they think they are going to make money, and how much they value various things. If they think it is best to get the fame from their material being put on thier site, that is thier choice. There are many other venues besides this one.
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8...and when you sign with them you are required to supply podshow with any advertising leads or contracts you might have already.
Basically Podshow is counting on at least a few podcasting stars to emerge after they've signed on to their network. Sign 'em while they're vulnerable, before they become a Keith and the Girl or Nobody Likes Onions. Imagine if you sign with them then want to leave and do it on your own.. you can't because they OWN all of the shows you did and could seal them away or worse, keep distributing the shows themselves and bring in ad revenue. - phej, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8sounds like a standard media contract to me
- CalgaryTechGuy, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Adam, is this you? Or is it one of the other podshow drones (no offense to Soccergirl)?
How can you say this is not evil? Have you listened to the details of the contract. The artists not only have to give up all rights to their shows, logos, and intellectual property, but also any advertising contacts they have made. Sounds a little like Adam needs the contacts and doesn't know where to look. Even with all of that, once they have signed there is no out clause for the artist. Adam is the only one who can cancel the contract and he has the exclusive right to extend the contract beyond the initial year. What does the artist get for all of this? Hosting for the podcast ($30/month at LibSyn), maybe making $2000/month based on the number of downloads (tracked and counted by Podshow, I hope there are some independant auditors involved), and empty promises and fluff about the possibility of advertisers for your show (maybe the contacts that you already have given them, but now Podshow gets a cut).
You are right, there are other ways of going about this. Podshow is not the only way to get your podcast out there. But I think that you would agree, the "deal" is far from good.
One more thing, if Adam doesn't own the rights to the show, maybe it shouldn't be listed on the top of his comedy directory (http://www.podshow.com/directories.html). I smell lawsuit.
Seagull - whiskeybravo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Er, Em, I don't suppose anyone in the lynch mob is interested in hearing what Podshow has to say, or actually reading the contract and UNDERSTANDING what it means compared to other legal documents.
The majority of you flame boys and girls above have clearly never listened to Curry and have no idea what he is trying to build. Go ahead and pass your judgments based on message board flame wars but whatever you do don't actually listen to what the individuals involved have to say. Sure, Adam is a capitalist, pure and simple (and a reasonably good one at that). WTF is wrong with that? At least there are a few rational voices here. No one is forcing you to sign the contract.
As to the bandwidth costs and issues, even libsyn is running into limits and is addressing certain "commercial" podcasts with a different cost structure (listen to the Inside the Net interview). I've heard Leo Laporte talk about monthly bandwidth bills in the multiple thousands of dollars, and TWIT is on a free ride with AOL!
Some (very, very few) of these people are going to be able to turn this into their livelihood. Many would absolutely not be able to accomplish that without some support. For them, Podshow is an answer (or one possible answer). If you can monetize it and figure out the whole thing yourself, then no one is stopping you!
Let me know how bad you feel for Soccergirl in 12 months. - UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Podshow offers the potential of ad revenue (assuming you get popular). Promotion is yet to be seen, but I'm sure they have plans.
They say over and over QYDJ (Quit Your Day job) but it hasn't happened for all but a couple of podcasters. - misterjangles, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I actually have a major label contract, believe it or not, though I don't pretend to be famous our whatever.
The way it works is that the label will lose money on 9 of 10 bands. If you are one of those bands (like me he he), you are actually lucky because it means you got more money from the label than was made from selling your CD, so you actually make out good! Like, if you sell your music to the Label for an advance of $100,000 but they only make $50,000 in sales, they will probably terminate your contract, but you get to keep the $100,000 advance. And you probably got some promotion and credibility for just being associated with the label (I am speaking of a bigger label that has a name, that is)
Unfortunately, the punishment goes to that 1 out of 10 band that is a huge hit because then the way the contract works is that the money will mostly go to the label and the band, in hindsight, will have traded in all that profit for a small up-front payment. So, they sold their music for the same $100,000 however the label makes millions. But, if that happens, the band will usually tour like crazy and make a bunch of money - then they will try to re-negotiate their contract for the next record.
So, a contract like this is basically selling your work in exchange for something. If the label (or in this case Podshow) is offering you something valuable like cash, exposure, credibility, etc, then maybe it is a good deal for you to give up some of your rights. If you are getting nothing out of the deal, the obviously it would be stupid to sign. - NoUse, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I don't really have anything against PodShow but what kind of benefits is there to joining PodShow via a contract like this? One seems to give up a lot of assets as a podcaster. Does one get anything in return? Ad revenue? Free promotion?
- nomechingues, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Adam is just a jerk Good job Keith and the Girl, love the show i feel sorry for soccergirl, i think Keith said it all.
" i think Adam owns soccergirl titties" - SystemHasFailed, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14Exactly. Why anyone even pays attention to this bozo is still beyond me.
- JohnboiWaltune, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12I just realized Adam Curry was that douchebag with the female hairdo on MTV when I was a kid. I always wondered what happened to that guy... I figured he'd be a full on transvestite by now.
- HMTKSteve, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11A link to an mp3 file? nothing to read? what sort of Digg is this?
- richpav, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5What I admire most about AC is how much ***** he has to take sometimes, yet he never takes his eyes off the goal. He's just a normal, average-intelligence guy who does extraordinary things with his life, and it has always seemed to me that a big part of his success has been his ability to weather criticism.
The contract sounds pretty one sided, but how does it compare to other media contracts? Does NPR own the material Ira Glass creates for This American Life? Does The Discovery Channel own the logo and all the episodes of Mythbusters created by M5 Industries? I would assume so. Is the compensation from Podshow fair? I have no idea, but I haven't heard any complaints either.
Adam has said in the past--more than once--that if anyone has a problem with stuff like this, he's willing to discuss it. Instead, I guess for a lot of people it's more fun to get together and use him like a ***** piñata. - bloodguard, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13I just tried to listen to this Keith and the Girl podcast but I couldn't deal with the woman's constant insane shrieking and cackling. I started bleeding out through my ears. Really.
Is there a cliff notes version of this contract available somewhere? - jd230, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I used to listen to Dawn and Drew before they were signed to Podshow and they were really funny. Then, just like her father had warned her, Dawn started running out of things to say. Now they constantly either go on road trips or make contests so they have material. I wish they went back to the way they were.
Kieth and The Girl, on the other hand, never run out of funny things to say. I think it's because they don't live out in the middle of nowhere and have their podcast take over every aspect of their life.
Just sayin'. - Tralfaz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I used to enjoy the Daily Source Code, but as soon as the Podshow thing got started that's all there was and now his show is just another radio show...promos (ads) for other podcasts, a song or two..from the Podshow network, and shameless self promotion. KATG and Catholic Insider are the best out there. TWIT is good, but Dvorak gets too much airtime, Diggnation is ok, but too much friggin' 19 year old target audience behavior. Oh, well...
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8The page links to their podcast feed, which contains a direct link to an mp3.
>>> http://media.libsyn.com/media/*****/KATG-2006-03-27.mp3
Who would want to click on a headline just to get an mp3 download.... seems annoying to me.
And yea, since the contract has been secret up until now there isn't a version to read... yet. - SixSider, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Listening to Curry's "response."
He doesn't seem to refutting anything. He wants t o talk to them. Very odd. - DisposableRob, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8"after that stint with wikipedia.org he really feel in the rating on my scale"
After his stint on Headbanger's Ball, he hit the bottom of my ratings scale. - mesoed, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5There would probably be some free Podshow promotion in those old shows!
- rabiddogma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Well I suspect (I don't really know for sure) that Podshow is following the Web Logs Inc. model. The basis of this model being that advertisers can have a one stop shop where they can advertise on several (hundred or thousand?) blogs on a single contract. The advantage to the advertiser is that they can get their message on a bunch of blogs and only have to deal with one entity. The advantage to the blog company is that the advertisers are willing to pay a premium for this one stop service. And the advantage to the bloggers is the fact that they're guaranteed a certain amount of revenue without having to deal directly with advertisers.
I suspect in order for this kind of model to work you would need contracts like this for it to really work. But I could be wrong. Who knows? - meltingrobot, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Sounds kinda like what a record companies contract probably looks like to an artist....
- scagnetti, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5For those of you who won't take the time to listen to the show, here's some highlights:
1. You give up all rights to your shows. Past, present and future. Boilerplate.
2. Podshow can censor you if they don't like what you're producing.
3. If you have leads on advertisers that were obtained before signing with Podshow you have to turn that information over to Podshow.
4. If you expand into other mediums it would need to be approved by Podshow and ultimately belong to Podshow.
5. Some of the language in the contract was speculative. For example, they 'believe' good things will happen that will result in generating cash flow.
6. Podshow compensates the producer(s) using their own statistical reporting methods. It's not handled by a 3rd party. - nomechingues, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Quick warning Keith and the Girl not for kids exactly.
And not very politically correct - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Everyone Knows Adam Curry is an asshat.
- UGM2099, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3to create a comparison most of us cant relate with, why aren't people flaming and hating Kevin Rose like they do with AC? He's got a growing company, lots of VC bucks, and is involved in some of the most popular podcasts. Somehow he doesn't get flamed like Adam Curry, even though we should all be equally jealous of him.
No, it's because Kevin Rose doesn't act like a pompous ass.
The differences are not subtle, and there is a reason AC gets flamed and it's NOT jealousy. He's a douche, he acts like a douche, and knows that the more he becomes a douche the more attention he gets. And he'll make money from it. Good for him. So what if we make fun of him and expose his true self? Obviously he's not overly concerned with being everybody's friend, so it's not a big deal. - sabster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5thats hilarious. this podcast is amazing so funny... i love how it says that you give all the rights of thw show away, yet you have to be responsible for everything you say. lmfao
- glitchp-udd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3why do people keep mentioning DRM in this conversation? what does that have to do with a business contract?
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